How was Maiden Astraea evil ?

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#1 Posted by ToxicFruit (1922 posts) -

I got shadow of the colossus syndrome when I killed her. I saw no point in it she did not look evil at all and she killed her self after I brutally murdered her guardian. And I attacked first :( 
Did I miss some lore or something ?
 

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#2 Posted by FuzzYLemoN (1609 posts) -

DAT BITCH'S GOT MAH SKULL! Err... demon soul, in this case.

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#3 Posted by aliss (100 posts) -
@Toxic said:
" I got shadow of the colossus syndrome when I killed her. I saw no point in it she did not look evil at all and she killed her self after I brutally murdered her guardian. And I attacked first :(  Did I miss some lore or something ?  "
same here....is there a link to her backstory?
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#4 Posted by HaniBall (371 posts) -

From memory:
 
According to Freke there are three humans who acquired a Demon's Soul.
Those three are: 
- Old Monk, who is actually the royal ladies husband. She talks about him bringing a powerful headband with him that ultimately corrupted him (-->Afro Samurai anyone?).
- Allant, Who dabbled with the demon powers in the first place. Very much a sorcerers apprentice kind of situation
- Astraea, who came to cure the land but ended up getting corrupted as well. Just look at the depraved ones bowing in her direction and you get an idea what might have happened.
 
If there is anyone you should feel bad about killing it's Doran! The last Hero!! 
Or two of the other three hero's of Boletaria, mentioned by Ostrava,  that you kill twice in the course of the game.

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#5 Posted by aliss (100 posts) -

i love the whole maiden astrea thing. it reminds of lord of the rings.   gandolf and galadriel both decline the ring, saying that only evil can come of it. 
 
yet for maiden astrea the temptation was too great

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#6 Posted by ToxicFruit (1922 posts) -
@joest01: Thanks for sharing, But so Astraea was not really evil she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And what was Doran doing there in the first place ?. I found some more info about here. It said that she had a abortion that might explain the babies in front of her.   
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#7 Posted by HaniBall (371 posts) -

Well, how were Alfred the tower knight and Metas the knight of the lance - two of the three heroes of Boletaria - evil?
That is what the demon's souls do to you. They corrupt you. 
 
Doran is the last hero of Boletaria, right? As he is the old king, he must also have preceded Allant on the throne. And he is wielding a NR as opposed to Allant and the false king both wielding a Soulbrandt (scales on black tendency). And he is guarding Demonbrandt (scales on white). So to me those are all indicators that he somehow stands for what was once good or at least in balance in Boletaria.

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#8 Posted by Icemael (6874 posts) -

I know this thread is old, but hey, the game got released here in Europe like last week.

Anyway, Astraea wasn't evil. On the contrary, she became a demon so she could help everyone -- including the impure and corrupted -- rather than just the ones God allowed. She's pretty much the most good-hearted character in the entire game. Hell, her witchcraft spell -- the one that simply channels her soul's power rather than manipulates it -- is a heal.

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#9 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2646 posts) -
@Icemael:
Oh oh oh, no sir. See Maidan Astrea traveled into the world of demon's with her lover and guardian (who's name escapes me) with good intent, to purge the land of evil and purfify it. However, she and her lover succumbed to the evils and temptations of demon's souls, and became demon's themselves. She prays in that swamp turning innocent babies into demon's among other evil things. (or something along those lines)
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#10 Edited by Icemael (6874 posts) -
@xaLieNxGrEyx: Nu-uh. That's what the priests would have you think, but various in-game descriptions clearly say that she accepted a demon's soul specifically to help the miserable creatures in the valley. She was "the woman who showed compassion", offering a "sanctuary for the lost and the wretched" and those "abandoned by God". Her Archstone description reads "Once, the Sixth Saint Astraea lived among those awaiting death in the Valley of Defilement, and gave her soul to the demons rather than cruel gods to free those people from suffering."
 
Basically, God didn't give a shit about the inhabitants of the valley, so in order to ease their suffering, she had to become a demon.
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#11 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2646 posts) -
@Icemael:
Yes she WAS good, but after giving her soul as become a demon
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#12 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2646 posts) -
@Icemael:
I guess you're right leaving me not technically wrong so to persue this as an arguement would be foolish, however, I remember reading somewhere about something she does in that swamp that is far from kind....
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#13 Posted by TheHT (15761 posts) -

I reckon she went there seeking to do good in God's name (was a maiden after all), but upon reaching her destination stopped believing in God, so took the demon power to look after her flock (the lost and wretched of that swamp place where city folk threw their babies away).
 
Then you go there and murder her.
 
Alright, here's the demon's souls english wiki entry: It is said that Maiden Astraea discovered the truth about God’s existence - or lack thereof - and thus explains why she accepted the Soul of a Demon in order to ease the troubled abandoned. Hers is ironically referred to as the most impure Soul. Yet still, Garl will never leave her side. 
 

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#14 Posted by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

Uh well here is the truth as I understand it.  I am going to spoiler it obviously....
 


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#15 Posted by Drakmyre (2 posts) -

My browser doesn't allow me to open the Spoiler links. Can someone post the rest of the posts for me?

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#16 Edited by audioBusting (2558 posts) -

@drakmyre: I think the spoiler links are broken since the migration to the new site. I don't know if this'll reach you, but here they are. You can see them from the source or when you quote them.

@karkarov said:

Saint Astraea actually went to the Valley with a number of people. First she had Garl Vinland her lover who is still there with here at the end, the Moonlight Knight Bito who somehow ends up slug food in 5-2 though there is no proof rumor is he was left to die by Vinland because he didn't agree with Astrea's decisions, and lastly the chick whose name escaped me who used the spear Istarelle she was just clubbed to death by giant depraved ones though....

Moving on.

She is where she is because that is the deepest part of the valley, the literal "core" of the corruption. This is believed to be because that cesspool was the dumping ground of aborted babies of the depraved ones. There she tried to cleanse the corruption only to find out that not only was the corruption more powerful than her but she in fact was drawing her power from the same thing that powered the corruptions effecting the valley, that is, the Old One. That is right kids Umbasa does exist, he just happens to be a soul eating demonic entity from another plane of existence. Realizing there was no "god" or Umbasa (literally speaking this is the name of God in Demon's Souls) at least not in any sense she expected she became mildly depressed. Realizing she got her powers from the Old One she knew she needed more power to hope to effect the valley and to do that she had to become more demonic and take on an actual Demon Soul. Now her motives are pure, she is not evil, there is no debate on that. Her actions were flawed though, you can't cure the corruption and she refused to face that reality and by the time she realized this it was too late. If you look closely in game she is literally tied to the ground, tendrils of red crap have grown into and under her skin and she is now a part of the valley and can't leave period. She really was just waiting to die.

Now why do you kill her? Simple. The only way to end all this crap is to put the Old One back to sleep. The only way to do that is to draw him out and make him open the path to where he is. The only reason he would do that is if all the arch demon's gathering souls for him are killed and his food for lack of a better term is cut off. At which point he will summon the most bad ass dude remaining in boletaria which happens to be you. Astraea has become one of these arch demons and is feeding the Old One souls even if she doesn't mean to so you have no choice but to kill her or you will never get the chance to put the Old One back to sleep. It sucks, but she screwed up not you and because a part of the system because she could not bring herself to kill the depraved ones who actually do have to die in order to stop the Old One.

Hope that sheds some light on it.

PS: The three knights of Boletaria Oolan, Alfred, and Metas are all in Boletaria as bosses. Oolan was known as the leader of a vast horde of men, aka Phalanx, Alfred is obviously the Tower Knight, and Metas is the Penetrator. Likewise you fight all three of them in their "soul forms" (aka their real bodies) at the beginning of 1-4. You can also find all their corpses in game, Alfred and Metas are both in 1-3, Oolan apparently died in her ancestral home at 4-1.

Thanks for the great explanation, by the way!

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#17 Edited by Fredchuckdave (10824 posts) -

I used that soul for a lot of weapons/spells, ends justified.

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#18 Edited by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

@audiobusting: Hah thanks. Wish I had seen the guys post a year ago. This site is really dicey on notifications. Saint Astraea is in my opinion still the most interesting boss from any of the Souls games so far.

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#19 Posted by fattony12000 (8506 posts) -

Whoa. Deep digging.

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#20 Posted by Nightriff (7193 posts) -

That was extremely interesting, I just wish the fight didn't boil down to me running backwards until Garl hits an invisible wall, turns around, lunging spear, repeat. Wish there were better ways of getting the entire story out of Demon's Souls, I assume Dark Souls is similar in manner

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#21 Posted by HeyGuys (566 posts) -

@nightriff: You guess right. I, mostly, don't have a problem with it. It probably could be more direct without losing anything but it does a lot right that other games don't even try.

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#22 Posted by Nightriff (7193 posts) -

@heyguys: Not really a problem, really enjoyed Demon's Souls and I assume I'll enjoy Dark Souls when I get around to it in a few months, but the real stories and subtleties of the game are extremely interesting and well written, I'm just not aware enough to find the story and piece it together so it ends up with me reading a wiki at some point.

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#23 Posted by Zeik (5179 posts) -

That was extremely interesting, I just wish the fight didn't boil down to me running backwards until Garl hits an invisible wall, turns around, lunging spear, repeat.

That's why you parry fight him instead. Parrying that giant club is pretty badass.

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#24 Posted by Nightriff (7193 posts) -

@zeik said:

@nightriff said:

That was extremely interesting, I just wish the fight didn't boil down to me running backwards until Garl hits an invisible wall, turns around, lunging spear, repeat.

That's why you parry fight him instead. Parrying that giant club is pretty badass.

I could never get the timing down to parry….I just did it that one time during the tutorial and went full cheese mode with shield/spear combo. Other bosses took a little more skill than that, but Garl wasn't the case.

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#25 Posted by Angelhubev (2 posts) -

I registered just to show and express my thanks for this very interesting information. I was watching a playthrough of Demon Souls and the section with Maiden/ Saint Astaea was quite enjoyable to watch. The back story is more than what one would expect. And the theme for the fight is perfect and deep feel to it... Thanks again.

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