Before I get off onto what will inevitably be looked at as a “George Castanza like” rage against aspects of Destiny 2 I will admit something many people who complain about it won’t: I like Destiny 2 quite a bit. Do I think that Destiny 2 is amazing, that it needs to be played by anyone with the ability to do so, or that its even one of the top 5 games of the year? Eh, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Much like that a-hole friend of yours that is extremely off-putting to almost everyone else, Destiny 2 has me wondering why I’m still hanging around it. When playing through the (inexplicably) lackluster Iron Banner matchups last night I declared to my friend, “None of this matters. Not even a little bit.” Should they do it through the slow, unrewarding grind of DLC or taking the time to craft meaningful changes I can’t help but think that Bungie is determined to keep Destiny 2 with only a few toes sticking out of the pool of “just good enough”; it could be fixed but who knows if they care to do it.

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The Beginning of An Unsatisfying End(game)

I liked Halo. I really, really liked Halo. I played plenty of online shooters on the PC but something about playing the Halo franchise online with friends, or even solo, was extremely satisfying. When Bungie implemented their website and allowed for the use of extremely detailed stat tracking, heat maps, and replays (a thorough setup no shooter, or developer, has been able to meet or exceed) I felt as though they could no wrong. While not everyone’s favorite installment, I found Halo: Reach to be the pinnacle of the franchise and looking back it definitely feels as though it is the last real Bungie game that studio has, and maybe ever will, make.

Thinking back on memories like these it makes you think about the way in which multiplayer games are structured now. “What am I aiming for” is something I often think about in a game when I’m playing it. For some games, like Horizon Zero Dawn or the Uncharted series it’s the story and for some games, like Borderlands or Diablo, it’s the primal enjoyment of new loot. Another aspect is simply being rewarded with the experience itself, and maybe even getting better at what you’re doing. PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds falls into this last category for me. The “loot boxes” are garbage, there’s no story (but my own), but the moment to moment experiences and playing the game itself is so rewarding that simply taking part in it is reward enough. Most multiplayer games worked this way, even if they had built in progression systems: Counter-Strike, the Battlefield series, Halo, Call of Duty, etc all rewarded its players by allowing them to take part in their playground.

This can be altered a few different ways with the injection of different styles, or possibilities, of play. For example, Diablo is not a competitive game but the separate segments of the loot game, the game play, the progression, and the social aspects all form a cohesive experience that can reward the player from a number of perspectives. Your crusader in Diablo 3 could play completely different by changing a skill or even by simply equipping that new axe you received: its lower powered than your other weaponry but the abilities it could offer allow you the potential for playing the game entirely different.

Now, you might be asking yourself why I’m going through this. You may also be saying, “Yeah, we know/understand all of this!” I bring this up because I consider Destiny 2 a failure when it comes to all of these aspects.

The Loot Game

Destiny 2, just like its predecessor, is a loot game. Yes, I’m stating the obvious, I know. However, its seemingly a loot game made by people who do not understand what makes a good loot game enjoyable. Simply turning the loot valve all the way “shove this in your face, loot fiend” isn’t enough and feels like a complete misunderstanding or a reactionary decision to offset…something else.

I find it incredibly off putting in a game where loot is a large factor of the experience but it was simply included to check off a box. Just like advertising that your game has loot boxes, it’s a tone deaf move from a developer if it is just there as either an afterthought or, at worst, a potential revenue stream. Oddly, Destiny 2 really isn’t either of those but I do consider the loot to be more of a massive misstep than a complete after thought…but maybe I’m being too considerate (probably not).

Bungie’s philosophy on loot seems to be more of a means to an end than anything else. In Destiny 1 Bungie clearly wanted their loot to mean something, even if they couldn’t fully execute on that idea. They frequently touted the line of, “You’ll see someone’s gear and they’ll have a story about how they got it and you’ll wonder how they did it.” While not completely accurate, there was…some of that. The loot game in Destiny 1 endgame was a mix of RNG (random drops/engrams), vendor specific gear, quest rewards, and non-bonus armor/weapon “sets”. Destiny 2 changes this by virtually making most everything RNG outside of the easily attainable exotic quests. Even raid gear is largely doled out through a faction “vendor”.

For those who maybe aren’t aware, Destiny 2 is full of NPC vendors that you can receive loot from. Much like in Destiny 1, you receive coins that you can turn into these NPCs to purchase items. The difference is that in Destiny 1 you could specifically decide what you wanted to buy. Need something power level xxx? Just play enough crucible to get the amount of coins you needed. Compare this to Destiny 2: You still receive coins from doing activities but when it comes time to turn those in you need 20 to have enough for an item…that is randomly generated from that NPC’s loot table. At first this doesn’t seem to matter much but then, when you’re in the literal endgame, it can be a little frustrating to receive the exact same sniper rifle 4 times in a row when you’re needing gear to get to a certain score. For me this is consistently a top of frustration since none of the weapons offer up anything so drastic in game play that I feel the incentive to switch how I’m playing. Using an auto rifle compared to a sub machine gun isn’t really that much different: point and shoot. This isn’t like Borderlands or Diablo where one gun can change how you play for quite some time. I am perfectly fine with RNG but in Destiny 2 the frustrating thing is it feels like that is really all there is. When I discovered the raid loot predominantly came from an RNG vendor it was the beginning of the end.

Exotic weaponry is also a problem: you get too much of it. I remember when I got my first exotic in Destiny 1, the Suros Regime (one of my favorite Destiny weapons, looking back). While it was random getting it I did feel like it was a mini event when I did. Destiny 2 takes the approach of saying, “Well, I don’t know. Here, just take all this crap and do something with it. Seriously, I don’t know.” By the time my Titan reached the level cap he was power level 275+ with 4 or 5 exotics…two of things just given to me for “free” at certain parts of the story. Since then my Titan now has something near 13 or 14 total exotics and I’ve gotten somewhere between 7 and 10 duplicates. I realized at a certain point that the loot in Destiny simply doesn’t matter…which is crazy in a game that, lazily, revolves around it.

Actual Progression or Tangible Goals

To judge Destiny 2, or even Destiny 1, as an mmo is a tricky proposition. You know that you probably shouldn’t because it is not really an mmo even though it tries to ape nearly every aspect of the experience (except the amount of content available to players and a good loot table). Even so, there are even more avenues of inspiration they could take that would make the grind of Destiny 2 more enjoyable…and most of them revolve around the same thing: a goal.

First off, I would change the way “factions” work, entirely. Factions need an actual number for your rank. You should be able to see what top level gear they have and you should be able to see what you need to get there. Each faction needs decent gear that gives you second thought about the progression you’ve chosen so far. Want that really cool ship (that shouldn’t just be a lazy reskin)? Guess you should work on that New Monarchy reputation. Think that pulse rifle with the unique stats? Better start doing events with the Vanguard banner. Once you get high enough in power level those NPCs in the “wild” and tower largely become useless and its merely a game of doing your Milestones.

The other way to make this better would be to include actual armor sets with tangible values on them. If I get a full set of raid armor then there should be stat bonuses just like with other loot games including mmos. Destiny 1 had this, somewhat. If I got armor in a raid that armor specifically made me better at the raid, it didn’t just give me 6 more power level and allow me to look “snazzy”. Those class trainers are, as I mentioned above, largely useless. They really could just be replaced with a computer terminal and it makes me wonder why I even need to go to the tower in the first place (hello, Destiny 1 problems again) baffles me. Compare this to a game like Warframe that has public hubs with unique vendors, quest givers, and options for trading but everything else is done from inside your personal ship (I would argue Warframe is actually a better game…and I said the same in Destiny 1).

That also factors into Crucible, which is an even more nerfed version of itself from Destiny 1. Now, Iron Banner doesn’t even matter and has the exact same problems as almost every other aspect of the game; its more RNG and less skill, fun, and meaningful progression. Give me weapons that work in PVE but excel in Crucible. The stat bonuses it gives only work in Crucible. This would also alleviate the biggest loot problem in Destiny 2: the MIDA (also known as “THE ONLY GUN PEOPLE USE IN TRIALS OF THE NINE SO WHY BOTHER OTHERWISE?)

They should have included a version of the Destiny Milestone book from the get go. If I even have a hint at what is expected of me I will have some incentive to work towards it, even if it is for an emblem. They eventually integrated this into Destiny 1 so I’m confused why Destiny 2 didn’t start with this.

The gunsmith needs to be reworked, and most all other NPCs do as well. He is a baffling entity now whose purpose seems to largely be taking weapon parts to give you crap weapon so you can turn them into weapon parts. Make him more functional or remove him from the game when you get to a certain item level.

The non-existence of leveling armor and weapons adds to the dilution of them. The loot game in Destiny 2 is boring and that includes the ships and sparrows (seriously, we’re sticking with only sparrows again?). This is one of the smallest loot gripes but it adds to the pile.

Lastly, the loot table needs to feel like there is some depth there. Right now it is glaringly obvious that there are only like 3-5 guns that matter and in terms of armor it largely doesn’t matter what you use as long as your item level is higher. The loot game at this point is boring as I can’t get anything better than what I have other than something with higher item level…and thanks to the magical goddess of RNG who knows when I’ll get the item I need so I can infuse it.

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So, that’s it…over 2,000 words about my feelings regarding the loot of Destiny 2. I could probably say more but I want to be more constructive than destructive in my words. I used to love Bungie and now I simply don’t know what to think of them. Destiny 2 has lots of potential and I really hope we don’t fall back into the role of “well, let’s see what they do with their first big DLC!” Many of the changes I’ve suggested or mentioned would be massive for the game as it currently is so I’m not too optimistic but we’ll see.

We talk about these things because we care about them, at least I do. I want them to succeed but if they stay on the same set of tracks with no deviation I can’t see myself doing anything but saying, “See ya” and moving to more satisfying and rewarding waters. Thanks for reading. If you stuck around for the whole thing, double thanks. Would love discussion!

[As of writing this I have completed the Prestige Nightfall]

"To say goodbye is to die a little.”
― Raymond Chandler

Good write up on the state of loots at endgame. I agree on most of the point except for the exotic reward as part of the story. I think the first weapon and armor exotics that you get in the story is a good thing, since it helps in reducing the anxiety of an Exotic drops. But other than that, Exotic drops way to frequent that the only exotic weapon I'm missing currently is the Raid Shotgun. Also the number of Exotics is staggeringly low, for a game that can draw upon 3 years of work.

Another thing that I notice after 3 weeks of playing is, Legendary Shards almost has no purpose anymore aside from infusion and Xur. I have close to 600 of them now. It feels like there is like a system missing somewhere in the loot ecosystem, like I dunno, buying a weapon or armor that you want instead of the RNG engrams.

@galerian: Yes, good point...I totally forgot to mention legendary shards. Xur has been pointless for me since launch as I've already owned every single piece or armor and weapon he's given. I wish they'd make the stuff he sells actually be more rare and just introduce Strange Coins again. Make them harder to get so by the time Xur comes around you actually have to choose what you want to buy (unless you've saved up coins). Even with wasting my shards to infuse items up a level or 2 I still have hundreds.

MIDA is not a problem, it's HCR that is a problem. Uriel's Gift is way too good because of this as well. In general, I think perks that increase your effectiveness are fine, but perks that make your opponents have decreased effectiveness are terrible.

When I use a certain gun, I can get used to that gun. The sum of its stats and perks is how that weapon behaves. When I get used to that, I can master that weapon and use it effectively. So when my opponent has a perk that essentially reads: 'this weapon you are used to behaves completely differently now' that is crazy OP, because you're taking skill away from your opponent. I am very much against this, so HCR and invisibility have no place in PvP if you ask me, unless they are tuned better.

As for Tokens, I really like them for the planetary vendors. They make sense there and it is really cool you have incentive to grind on a specific planet now as opposed to whereever, because you like the armor a certain vendor has. But for everything else the Token system shouldn't exist as it does now. Doing the Raid and getting 90% of your drops after the fact from a vendor in the Tower and getting nothing the entire Raid is real lame and anti-climactic.

I'm not sure what to think of Exotic drop rates. I might say it's fine as it is. In D1 it was way too infrequent in vanilla. It became way too much when Three of Coins was introduced. It feels a little too much right now, but not as much as 3oC and not as bad as vanilla. I have 243 hours in D2 and still need two Exotic weapons and quite a few Exotic armor pieces on my Hunter and Warlock. That sounds fair?

There clearly needs to be more min-maxing systems in here for the endgame though. It feels like it was just ripped out at some point. I have 2800 Legendary Shards and I didn't even play that much. Yes, I played a lot but not compared to some other insane people. I don't mind being done with the content this quick, I actually kind of like that, but I do mind having nothing to do at all even if I want to. The Campaign, Max Power, Raids and Prestige Nightfalls should last me a few weeks and they have. But now I have no reason to play even if I wanted to. The mod system is cool, but not nearly elaborate enough.

I'm still playing because I love the act of playing the game. It is a fantastic game. But whatever level you consider the gameplay to be at, the progression isn't anywhere close to it.

Personally, I think the Crucible/PVP should be more like what it was supposed to be when Bungie first talked about it for Destiny 1...but that's a discussion for my PVP/Crucible write up.

I wish that Destiny 2 was rewarding enough for me to put that amount of time into it. With crucible/pvp being so unrewarding for me and having "solved" the PVE portion of the game I just can't find a reason to dump so much time into it like Bungie clearly wants. Everything, include events, seems geared for people who are always just coming out of finishing the campaign.

This is a great write up and clearly states why I will never play destiny again. All of these problems are real and imo they are purposefully put there by the devs to make their jobs easier. In fact the majority of people playing destiny 2 have so many issues with the game it makes me wonder why they continue to log in.

Because it is a fantastic game I enjoy playing over almost everything else. I can articulate what I do not like about it or what it should do better, but that doesn't mean I think the entire thing is a snooze fest. I genuinely love the PvP, it plays very well and feels great. I love doing the Raid, I love doing Prestige Nightfalls. I had no in-game reason to do any of these things two weeks ago, but I'm still doing them because I enjoy doing them.

Still, I would like there to be more of a reason to do them other than it just being fun to do.

I can't say I didn't get my $60 out of the game. I've gotten like 40 or more hours which is way more than I do most other games. I just wish there was something there that made me want to get into the game every week.

@zevvion: that is the main issue with most mmos is that there is no reason to play once you have cleared the content.

@younggryan: Except you can't finish most mmos in a week. I would dare say any of the ones out today that's definitely not a possibility.

@sammo21: @younggryan: In all fairness, Destiny is not an MMO though. It has some of the typical MMO-design sprinkled around it, but it isn't one really. That said, what MMO's do better is if a player decides to keep playing, there is still something to play towards. You run the same content you've been doing, but you're still progressing somewhere.

I am not saying Destiny 2 needs more missions, more raids, more endgame activities and so on, there is only so much they can create realistically. But once you're through all that content, there should be possibility to keep growing in some area's if you want to keep playing it. Essentially I'm not suggesting it needs to give you a reason to keep playing, but if you choose to keep playing, there should be a reason to do so; if that makes sense.

I think destiny is an mmo in every aspect of the genre. The only difference that it has is in the shooting and itself. But it is structurally built just like every mmo I have played. It really reminds me of wow except for the shooter aspects.

@younggryan: I disagree on calling Destiny an MMO. The only MMO design I see is the fact that there is a public space outside of the tower. Other than that, it's just RPG elements intertwined into FPS.