@zevvion: I really want to play Dawnblade tonight. I said from the beginning that Dawnblade looks a lot like Taken King Sunbreaker in a very good way, which is to say running around a bit more slowly tossing Hammers. But after getting my hands on Sentinel, I'm feeling that Y3 Sunbreaker (using Suncharge 90% of the time and rarely throwing Hammers) just as much as I thought I would be. I'm telling you, it's a playstyle mentality thing, not necessarily the specific abilities. Sentinel even has the quirks like Charge lockouts on swipes and shortstops that seem like they should be hitting players but don't, haha. A lot of laughter that ensued one game when I went to charge a player at Markets to quickly gain ground so I could smash him from the back, only to realize it sent me flying about 30m forward of the map on a charge lockout where I couldn't backcharge into the player like I was trying to and then just fell to my death. That was my favorite death of the night. Sentinel has that aggressive I'm coming after you and you don't have a chance feeling that nothing besides Sunbreaker had in Destiny, and the amount of double Cap Shield throws I got last night was amazing, if not a bit broken. I swear if you hit the first player and another player is near it autotracks to said player. Getting two of those Shield throws per Super is going to be devastating at launch, I will 100% be playing that tree.

Edit: After playing Warlock tonight, I cannot stand playing Dawnblade, and not at all because of the class. The new floaty Warlock Glide is the absolute worst. It keeps sticking to Glide when I want to go back to the ground. It so much different, and in my opinion completely awful compared to the Glide in Destiny 1. I played a ton of Voidwalker and just turned on Blink which felt really good to be honest. I doubt I will play any Warlock outside of Voidwalker in PvP, and will avoid my Warlock in PvE due to that awful Glide. Dawnblade itself seems fun though. I just can't do having my Glide float me into the ceiling without my consent constantly, it's no bueno.

@hestilllives19: I love Dawnblade. That glide is much better than it was. You have to cancel it if you want to go down. I'm not sure what exact issue you are having with it. It responds well.

I think the other skill tree will work like the D1 glide, with the added benefit of staying in the air if you're making critical shots.

The good thing is that it's the only class that can actually fire a weapon from the air. Every other class, you fall straight down and can't aim until you reach the ground again. Also, after watching this video, the dawnblade super seems way more maneuverable than I first thought. I need to try it again:

@spaceinsomniac: Indeed. The thing I like about Dawnblade is that is just an aerial assault class. Even without the Super, you can fly in the air shooting at things, dropping grenades, then recharging those grenades on kills from the air. It is really great, since there are a lot of melee oriented enemies in the beta that can't even touch you.

Titans are obviously still better because they are Titans. But Warlocks will be my second class quite easily. I do love Arcstrider, but not more than I love Dawnblade and I'm not a fan of Golden Gun.

Yep, that sure plays like Destiny! Glad I got to play the beta, but now I can just wait until the full release.

After playing the beta, one thing I'm really wondering about is how the ability unlocks will work. We know that at least one way to earn the unlock tokens will be the new "Adventure" PVE events, which I believe are supposed to be about 15 minutes long and be somewhat lore heavy, but I'd really like to know if those unlocks will be permanent or not.

There didn't seem to be a way to toggle any of the abilities off in the beta, and some clearly offer both pros and cons, so will some players build entire classes around NOT unlocking certain abilities? If I use the top golden gun tree, am I ALWAYS stuck with a much faster super timer but six shots? What if I want a standard version of my super instead, but I want to use the other three perks in that tree?

The same is true for Dawnblade. What about players who DON'T want to float in the air when they're aiming? Do they really need to force themselves to learn not to aim while in the air? Will there be some sort of toggle in the full game?

@spaceinsomniac: Bungie says we are too dumb to make our own decisions, so we cannot choose perks. You choose the entire cluster, one or the other. That's it.

So if you do not want to float in the air while aiming with a Dawnblade, you just have to pick the other perk cluster.

And if you don't want that stupid six shot crazy fast super timer on your golden gun, then what, you literally never put an upgrade point into that? Without any hyperbole, that's truly horrible game design.

There's a lot that they haven't talked about just yet, though, so I'll remain hopeful they didn't do anything that dumb.

@zevvion: Personally, as someone who dabbled with Twilight Garrison, though I was far from an expert, I love the air dash and found it very useful and intuitive when playing PvE. My problem occurred while playing PvP, as getting Glide locked was only noticeable when I was actively being punished every single time it happened. What is happening specifically is the Glide sometimes refuses to cut out like it did in Destiny 1, or was doing so on a slight delay. Which was prompting me to hit it multiple times trying to cut my Glide as I was up and exposed. Add to that the fact that it would activate my Glide seemingly anytime I tried to jump backward, and shoot to get out while air dashing, I would just float in the air after the air dash if I didn't recut the Glide. This is unlike both D1 Glide and Twilight Garrison, and it was just too much to try and navigate while also playing what has turned into, because of SBMM, pretty decently sweaty matches already.

I'm also saying this as someone who main'd a Warlock (2 even for a good chunk of Y1) for the vast majority of D1, putting in close to 1,000 hours Gliding, so it's not like I don't know how the mechanics are suppose to work. They just feel super clunky now in a way that's hard to describe, but it's mostly due to the new Glide cutting and Glide activation from in air firing mechanics. I really don't like them at all. I will probably only play PvP on a Voidwalker with tree 2 using Blink, seeing as tree 1's Super is absolutely awful in PvP. I'll experiment more with it this weekend doing PvE stuff at some point, because I'd hate to write of Dawnblade, which feels great, just because the Glide is awful, but right now I just can't see myself playing PvP with it.

Edit: I did have a few friends say it could have been the Glide I was using, which was the Burst one in the middle. I was using that one because it's the only one that still allows you to Warlock Skate through the environment pretty quickly. If you don't know how that works, you basically jump up, wait until the second you start decending, and then hit your Glide into the ground. It creates a burst of speed forward into the ground, and these hops allow you to move at about twice the speed a Warlock normally can.

Wow, you guys have got me worried with all these gameplay changes. The actual gameplay of Destiny 1, ie the movement, gunplay, abilities, etc was about perfect in my opinion. They just needed better writing and more content out of the gate. I figured if they could put together a decent story and 4 patrol areas of the quality of the Taken King / Rise of Iron, and left everything else alone we'd be talking game of the year territory for sure.

Why would they go and slow it down?

@jaycrockett: I know, this is exactly why I personally haven't understood the Destiny 1.5 arguments people have been making. From what they've been talking about since DRE, this has seemed like clearly a vastly different game than D1, and those making that argument clearly didn't put much actual time into D1. Then again I'm in the same camp as you, wishing it actually was a bit more of a "Destiny 1.5" because I'm not a huge fan of all of these changes. I'm hoping some drastic balancing happens between the Beta and launch, and to be honest that's exactly what that timeframe is for so it's actually pretty likely to happen. But the epic spacemagic shooter with loot I fell in love with and played for 2,000+ hours is not really what Destiny 2 is acting like right now. It's a very watered down version of it's self purely done for PvP balance, that at least in my opinion, isn't even getting that right. I'll reserve judgement in September, and I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see myself currently being as heavily invested in D2 as I was in D1 (though that may be far from a bad thing).

@jaycrockett To be fair, lots of this is 'hardcore fan' complaints on our part. When you put several thousand hours into a game, you tend to nitpick naturally on anything that stands out to you, and because you have so many hours into it, lots of things will stand out. Have you played the beta? It is open so you can download and play it now. It is a ton of fun. I took a week off from work to play D2 when it releases and while I have complaints, I do not regret taking that time at all, if that alleviates some fears here.

No, you just select the other perk cluster. You can select perk clusters like you select individual perks in D1. You pick one or the other, but you can 'own' both.

@jaycrockett: Like said, you should give the beta a go yourself.

I definitely didn't sink all that many hours into Destiny myself, so any changes so far haven't really bugged me that much, because I'm somewhat clueless to them. It probably helps that I pretty much only played Warlock in the first game, so I don't even know how those others classes worked even before the changes in D2. I also barely touched the PvP, so those changes are going over my head as well.

From what I played now in the beta, the opening mission and the Strike, it felt like Destiny to me. The shooting's great and the abilities worked well enough for me, though I did notice some changes in those. But again, I didn't play D1 for hundreds of hours, so that likely explains why I might be missing on most of the stuff some peeps here are on about...maybe it's a blessing in my case?

I also forgot that you can't really communicate via chat in a console games. Funny that! Guess I need to get a headset going if I plan on raiding at any point in the distant future.

Oh is the beta open today? I thought it was tomorrow. Now I need an excuse to cut out of work early...

I guess it actually is tomorrow for Open Beta, whoops. Don't know what time they open the gates for that.

@jaycrockett: The open beta starts tomorrow like @glots said at 10am Pacific. The only other real thing to keep note of is that The Farm will only be accessible on Sunday, July 23rd, at 10am-11am Pacific. The Beta concludes at 9pm Pacific on the 23rd.

I realize that. I think you're missing my point.

There are four perks on one tree, and four on the other tree. Some of those perks, like six shots in your golden gun, come with BOTH pros and cons to them. Despite having six shots, your super is way faster. I'm aware you can't mix perk trees, but you should at least be able to DISABLE any perk on any tree, if you feel the disadvantages outweighs the advantages.

As it is now--that we're aware of--if you hate the faster time limit on the six shots golden gun, you're stuck NEVER using that skill tree. You can't just use the other three perks, and ignore the fourth. If you're going to force people into perk choices, don't give them disadvantages. It's really stupid.

@spaceinsomniac: Yeah, I thought you meant that but it seemed logical to me that they intended you to use the entire perk cluster. It came across as if you didn't understand that, I was wrong obviously.

But this is one of the consequences of not letting us choose our own perks. The worse one being I can't find my own synergy and playstyle.

I like the new skill trees especially since resilience, mobility and recovery is tied to armour now, I think once we start getting legendary loot we will be able to customise our character to match our play styles with different armour sets to maximise not just certain skill tree cluster but also weapon load outs. My main concern out of the beta as a hunter main in original destiny is how viable hunters will be in end game content even thou the arcstrider is very good at add control my concern is will their super be viable up against higher level enemies, as of right now I am leaning towards maining a titan in D2 because their supers feel more enjoyable to use and they have better resilience for end game content. I will miss that sweet looking hunter armour and cloaks but after about 500 hours spent as a hunter I would not mind the challenge of mastering a new class.

So I know this isn't the thread for this, but it seems a little to small a request for its own tjhread. I'd really like to run through the old raids leading up to destiny 2's release. I joined that Xbone batmanbatmanbatman group, but it looks like no one's home. Anyone want to help a brother out?

@slaps2: The proper place for this kind of question is at the Destiny forum where you already posted this. Problem is even for the PS4 community, Destiny 1 is pretty much a ghost town right now. I think in mid August people might be doing this kind of thing for one last hoorah, but that will be on PS4. Our Xbox community is and has always been very small. Hopefully that will change some come Destiny 2, but you are honestly better off starting a post with our Xbox 100.io, explaining your situation (first time Raider or just looking to do them one more time) and then setting it to Public, that way anyone from 100.io can join. It's a pretty good community so you should get better quality squadmates than somewhere like LFG and you run a better chance of finding a Sherpa. You may also want to set it a day or so in advance. Another good place that would have a lot of people would be Reddit Fireteams, and this would be more a spur of the moment type thing. You'll need a Reddit account if you don't already have one, and I've never really used it before, just heard good things about people's experiences.

I love the changes to the loadouts, I feel like I'd be more down to use weapons I was very unlikely to use in destiny 1. For example sidearms, and fusion rifles. I main a Titan so love the shield class ability. Seems very strong. I kind of don't like the changes to the supers but I understand why the changes were made. The captain America shield is cool. I can see myself popping the small shield instead of the bubble by accident a couple times. The bubble won't be as versatile but will still be important. Overall, I realized I missed destiny. Can't wait to get into the full game.

I hope they fix the drops for Destiny 2. I don't mind a little bit of grinding for loot, but at some point, a player should get what they want. Doing 28 night falls before I get an Icebreaker while other players in my squad are getting it on their 3rd or 4th run is super frustrating. I played on my Warlock the first night, probably around 10 missions and got multiple arms, and duplicates of weapons. On my Hunter, same situation, where as I'd very much like to get the Nightshade pulse for that class. Otherwise, I'm reserving full judgement until the final product comes out cause there's a lot of likes I like and dislike, mostly all stuff that's been expressed in this forum.

@dispossession: I suspect the game will still have plenty of RNG in it in regards to loot.

@dispossession: all I can say is good luck man. That's part of the reason I quit. Doing 3hr + raids on hard and getting a duplicate helm for the 3rd week in a row is no fun.

I played the opening mission and a round of multiplayer, then deleted the beta. After seeing what this beta is actually offering, it's not going to give me the information I need to know if they're doing it right. The shooting felt great. I loved that the SMGs are secondary weapons. The opening mission was fantastic. They're not talking about the gameplay loop though, so I guess we'll all find out when it comes out because the IGN first didn't really give much either.

I'm still hopeful. What I played was great, but how it fits into the overall game is still a mystery to me.

@humanity: @dispossession: A lot of these problem they have already worked on in the past, and to relative success. So I personally, have zero fear about that kind of thing come September 6th. There will obviously, like @zevvion mentioned, be a hint of RNG to Destiny. But there Smart Loot Filters have been getting better all the time and work reasonably well in Destiny 1, especially in regards to Raids. To an extent, I honestly don't want that part to go away entirely either. Part of the charm of Destiny's loot is finally obtaining that much sought after item, and when it drops it creates a sort of thrill that guaranteed loot just doesn't. What will be nice for players that don't plan to invest a lot of time will be the static rolls on Legendaries, because while it may create worse loot overall for us hardcore guys like myself, it is most definitely going to create easier access to the better Legendary gear for players with less time investment.

@colonel_pockets: If you're not grinding the same shit over and over then Destiny's not for you.

Well the first mission was alright but looks like i can't even try the beta without ps plus, lol well that's stupid. *deletes game*

@hestilllives19:

Right, the RNG is apart of its charm but it's different for everyone and in my case, it's still shit, regardless of Smart Loot Filters or not. It doesn't become fun when you're doing it so much and that's why I say it can still be better.

It's more Destiny and that's totally okay as long as it's that good Destiny. Opening mission seemed promising enough, I like the changes to loadouts, SMGs seem fun, etc. I might end up waiting depending on how much content there is in the game at launch, but I think there's a decent chance I'll pick it up.

@fredchuckdave: I mean, I played ~300 hours of Destiny 1, so I know what I'm getting into. I just want to know if they've added anything to the loop or if Destiny 2 is just a bunch of QOL advancements from the first game.

It's Destiny with better lighting. Strike was good fun, so I'm in. I play Destiny more like Left 4 Dead, where I'm just here to shoot stuff with other people, so RNG and PvP changes're all whatever. Getting to play dress up, open loot, stare at pretty ships, all that extra stuff is a bonus.

The opening mission was neat, but I really hope there's not a lot of moments where they arbitrarily block you off with invisible walls so the increasingly obnoxious comic relief can shoot the otherwise invulnerable enemies. At least let me kill him and fail the mission.

PVP isn't just unlike the first Destiny. It's also unlike any other competitive shooter I've ever played. It's very different, and so far, really quite fun. There are a few adjustments that I'd like to see made to the game, but it's still really good already.

I also now understand why they went to a 4v4 system, which is because they HAD to, if they wanted to change the game to feature a slower time to kill. If they kept 6v6, every control game--Destiny's version of Domination from COD--would be 3 setup on one flag, 3 setup on another, and they'd just destroy any single attackers. And if you did manage to run into 4 or 5 of the enemy team, you'd get downright melted by team fire. There's no way the changes to the game would work very well in objective games with 6v6. Getting team-shot by 4 people at once already is devastating, but at least when it's happening, you know there's no one defending any other flag.

As much as I'd love to be able to still finish a raid and then take the whole party into PVP, I now understand why they made the changes that they've made--mostly--and how it's going to keep Destiny 2 PVP from feeling like a simple DLC expansion.

@colonel_pockets: SMG's are kinetic and energy weapons. Meaning they can appear in your primary and secondary weapon slot.

As for what Destiny 2 is, no one knows for absolute certain, but I feel confident in telling you it is a massive quality upgrade over the first game, but its core will be more or less identical. The endgame will be Nightfalls, Raids, Trials and Iron Banner. We know that there are weapon and armor mods to be earned now, so you can customize your gear cosmetically as well as effectively such as certain elemental types for energy weapons and such. But after finishing the story and all that, you will play Strikes or PvP to level up further and earn gear to become Raid ready. Then you will do the Raid every week or Trials to level even further and acquire gear and then the next DLC will come out.

There is a lot of side-stuff now, like side-quests, which sounds cool. But the core loop will still be the same.

I remember how hard it was when I had to wait a whole month to play Dark Souls 2 on Pc. I almost succamb to the hype, and bought it on console, several times over that period while watching all the coverage on GB and other sites. New things can be exciting and enticing, but more often than not being patient and waiting can be a virtue when it comes to games. That's about what I expect with Destiny 2 and the Pc version. Hopefully it isn't a mess or anything. I enjoyed my time with the first game more or less, but I can definitely see me getting really into 2 with a Pc version afforded to me.

@zevvion: That sounds really good to me! If the quality of the of the game is better then it will make grinding more fun. I don't know if this is right, but the game felt a little slower, but tighter than the original. The gameplay loop of the original eventually wore on me because the missions were just not that fun to play over and over. The shooting could only carry it so far (obviously 300 hours is pretty far). Fingers crossed!

I think Destiny is fairly good, but far from great. After playing the beta I was still thinking "meh". Kinda like COD and Overwatch I can maybe see the appeal, but all three series gets over hyped and rated IMO.

- The movement felt weird and too slow. I actually think Mass Effect Andromeda moves at a MUCH better pace and is more precise.

- The story still seems like it was written by a middle school kid. The bad guys led by Ghaul come and take the light away from the good guys so darkness can win... lol okay. At least they didn't name him Sinister.

- It feels like Halo dressed up in a lot of way. The Cabal are brutes, the little guys with them looked and played like jackal, instead of Cortana you have Ghost, and so on. Bungie could've just done a Halo spinoff.

- Your main character should talk. When your Ghost gets kicked off the ship at the end of the beta and the main character emotes without talking I laughed. I could see that turning into a meme.

How the beta is different from the final release will be the first test to see if Bungie got their shit together this time around. The game needs faster ability cooldowns (grenade and supers) in PvE and arguably in PvP too. This is just one thing out of dozens that could be improved for release. The amount of things they adjust for the final release will show if they really understand how much fast iterative improvements are needed in Destiny and if they're addressing that in the sequel.

I'm betting they will show exactly how much they changed their approach since the first game: not at all. They will fix what they already thought needed fixing (power ammo drop rate) and take none of the other community feedback. Hunter dodge will remain shit, ability cooldowns will be unchanged outside of the 2-10 second you might be able to shave off with gear perks, etc, etc, etc.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they already have stuff addressing these issues but looking at some of the baffling design decisions they made all across the game this seems doubtful.

@pyrodactyl: Here's to hoping we get something along these lines for Destiny 2 like we got for Destiny 1.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12125/7_Update-101---Patch-Notes

I won't list all of the changes but suffice it to say there was a lot. Especially that pesky OP Windmill, it really got put in it's place.

Blind Watch

• Windmill now pumps approximately 14% less liters of waters per match from 3.5L to 3L.

Hahahaha. Best Patch Notes Ever.

So, excuse me if this was already covered, but how solo friendly is destiny 2. Never played the first game, but would you say it can be fun playing solo? I put in 200 hours in Elder Scrolls Online, treated it as a single player TES and still had a ton of fun.
I know it's probably hard to say for sure and it's something i'd have to try myself to really know for sure. I just love Sci-Fi and the destiny universe seems very cool and interesting, I'm feeling drawn into destiny by its popularity, hype, gameplay and most importantly the setting but I'm afraid to be dissapointed and throwing money away.

If you have a console, download the beta right now. It will be available until 9pm tonight, or some time around there. Play the solo story mission, and then try the strike. The strike will pair you up with two other random people, but you don't need to enter voice chat or anything. If you enjoy that experience, go for it. If even that is too much multiplayer for you, I'd just skip this game.

The story campaign isn't the reason to play a Destiny game. If you don't mind random matchmaking, you should be able to do everything other than raids and some of the weekly hard mode strike events. At least if this game works like the last one. It'd be even better if you like PVP, though.

@spaceinsomniac: Thanks! I actually downloaded the beta a few minutes ago since I learned it's open now and still available for a short time. Will try it later for sure! I'm fine being paired with randoms & if I can do most things without using voice chat then that's also pretty great!

Oh, fuck. Guess I forgot about another patch dropping...maybe I'll manage to visit the Farm for a few minutes. It should be opening right now over here. Or an hour from now.

@mattgiersoni: Pretty much what @spaceinsomniac said. I think Destiny 2 will be a much better solo experience than Destiny 1 from what we've seen. That being said, I highly recommend if you find you enjoy the game to check out Clans. Destiny is just a completely different game when played with others in the best way possible. If you are worried about playing with douches or people you have nothing in common with, I highly recommend checking out our Clans and Grouping post. Pretty much everyone I've played with there has been good ole Giantbombers and it's made for a great time for me personally over the years. It also helps to have Giantbomb as a common interest and talking point. If it's a not really wanting to chat type of situation, just explain that to people in a message, outside of Raids and Trials, chat isn't really a requirement, it's just (IMO at least) a more fun way to play. There have been so many times over the years I wasn't even really "playing" Destiny, but rather getting loot while catching up with my clanmates and now friends. I'm not saying solo is a bad way to play, I just know from my experience, Destiny is a dish best served with friends.

@hestilllives19: I'm still on the fence, but you nailed it, I don't like voice chat because of toxic people. I know there's a ton of awesome, helpful people out there too though. Destiny seems great from what i've played in the beta just now. I might get it, depending on how big will my backlog be. Besides being new to destiny, i'm also new to giantbomb haha. Been lurking here and there and I've had a membership for a few months now. Everyone seems super nice here though! Anyway, I'm getting off topic here. I think I might get D2, gameplay is awesome and it feels amazing. Thanks for the reply!

The Farm looks cool, probably even more so once it's got NPCs in it and when you keep updating the place. I hope they've got some of those NPCs walking around a lot this time around too. The football's a fun touch, though I imagine that might lose it's charm quickly.

I really like the surrounding bits of forest and 'am hoping that they've added some of those invisible walls there just for the beta. Going to be irritating if you can't just walk past those lines when there's clearly nothing blocking the way. They don't even need to add any activities there, just let me run around this island.

My thoughts on the beta: Felt like quitting few times during the first mission. Then just did it, and uninstalled. Movement felt sluggish and the shooting felt off. (I can't be just imagining this...?!)

Your first three points are all true, but not necessarily negative.

It was a design decision to slow the game down a tad. Destiny was all about decisive action, but sometimes a bit too much so. In endgame activities, staying in the open for half a second kills you and bosses have damage phases that allow a 5-10 second window to do damage while enrage timers make sure you also have to maximize damage. It was all sound design on paper, but in practice it meant a whole lot of Raid teams requiring you to have specific gear since it maximizes damage, and if you didn't have it, tough for you but no one will invite you. The fast death speed also meant people will poor stats were not invited either. Be good and have the exact gear you need or get lost. Bungie wanted to get rid of both that mentality as well as the gameplay approach.

That's why they moved to two primary type weapons and one Power Weapon among other things that all slowed the game down a bit, but made it more manageable.

As for the story, it is kind of the purpose to be an obvious good versus bad struggle. In a sense, it is similar to a John Wick story. In there, the bad guy literally kills a puppy. It hits you over the head by how obviously bad they are. But it does work if you are into that sort of thing. Ghaul is very effective at this. He is a very (stereo)typical bad guy, but that is sort of the point. I like it myself.

Your character will talk in the final game though. This beta was actually a beta, not a demo. It was certainly unfinished, even the parts we got to play. Bungie already claimed the build they are working on now solved several issues people had with the beta, which is a build from a few months back. Among this was voice over for the main character.

@mattgiersoni First, is your name based on Liara? Second, there are two clans worth of dudes that aren't toxic with whom you can play. I can personally vouch for my clan's lack of toxicity, which is mostly made up of Giant Bomb dudes. Destiny can be played solo but the best parts require a team. I understand it is a hump, but it is one you should make. If anything, just try grouping with us once and if you don't like it just don't do it again. No hard feelings.

More time to get your beta on.