New Developer Update from Bungie Today

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#1 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -

As soon as Bungie Updates the Blog I will post everything they have talked about. Here are some of the very likely topics of discussion though, starting with the earliest mentioned by Bungie to the latest.

  • Change to Prestige Rewards (TWAB 10/26, State of Destiny 11/29), Raid Itemization across the game, most difficult activities will be the most rewarding (Christopher Barrett Tweet)
  • Private Matches (TWAB 10/26, State of Destiny 11/29)
  • Exotic Duplication Reduction (TWAB 10/26, State of Destiny 11/29)
  • Emote Interface (TWAB 10/26, State of Destiny 11/29)
  • Improvements to Chat Fuctionality (TWAB 11/9)
  • Ranked PvP (State of Destiny 11/29)
  • Crucible Quitter Penalties (State of Destiny 11/29)
  • Themed Sparrows, Ghosts, Ships, and Shaders for Iron Banner and Faction Rallies (Christopher Barrett Tweet)
  • Feedback on Eververse will be addressed (Christopher Barrett Tweet)
  • Long Term and Short Term solution to Vault Space (Christopher Barrett Tweet)
  • Adding more Collectibles and Hidden Secrets to future expansions (when replying "Yes" to returning hidden Ghosts) (Christopher Barret Tweet)
  • New Weapon/Armor Mods will be discussed (Christopher Barrett on Twitter)
  • Derek and Josh will talk about PvP (Christopher Barrett on Twitter)
  • Rumble Gamemode will be talked about (Christopher Barrett on Twitter)

Crimson Days has been leaked via PC game updates so they will likely talk about it, Iron Banner, and Faction Rallies as well. They may also announce the date of the Gods of Mars DLC, likely in March-April based on leaks, past DLC launches, and the date of Season 3's start.

Listed below are the top 3 things Destiny fans are upset with Destiny 2 right now, and these issues may be being addressed today, but we shall see.

  • Eververse is far too pervasive and is putting too much loot into Microtransactions that were in game rewards in Destiny 1.
  • The End Game is weak and the Raid rewards are too slim and unrewarding. Loot in general is boring.
  • PvP is dull and boring to both watch and play.


This Week At Bungie

Destiny 2 - Development Update 1-11-18

Faction Rallies Return 1/16/17-1/23/17 (FWC Auto/Armor, DO Auto/Armor, NM Auto/Armor). Characters can participate in the Faction Rallies event if they meet the following requirements:

  • Character Level 20
  • Completed the Red War campaign
  • Completed the Faction Rallies Introduction Milestone
  • Pledged to one of the three factions

Iron Banner will return 1/30/17-2/5/17.

Bungie also wants to "set clearer expectations for is which categories of content are available to everyone each Season, and which are exclusive to Destiny 2 Expansions".

No Caption Provided


Changes for the upcoming Seasons...

  • "We’re shifting the balance of new content in favor of activity rewards over Bright Engrams. This includes adding Ghosts, Sparrows, and ships (to date found only in Bright Engrams) to achievement reward pools." (Likely this is referencing stuff like the Faction and Iron Banner items we've already seen in the database)
  • "We'll provide a gameplay path to earn Bright Engrams and all contained rewards (including Event Engrams)."
  • "We’ll give players more direct purchase options and make adjustments to Bright Engrams to allow players to get the items they want more often."

Crimson Days

In a weird way Bungie announced Crimson Days as if everyone already knew about it from the leaks. Event begins 2/13/17. Here are how some of the above changes to Eververse will work directly in Crimson Days.

  • "Completing Nightfall, Raid, and Crimson Days milestones during Crimson Days will reward you an exclusive Legendary Emote, Weapon Skin, and Exotic Sparrow, respectively."
  • "Players will earn double engrams at level-up: one Crimson Engram and one Illuminated Engram for the duration of the event."
  • "Crimson Engrams can also drop from completing the Crimson Days match and from completing the Crimson Days milestone on each character."
  • "Each Crimson Engram is very strongly weighted to new rewards when decrypted until all new event items have been obtained."

XP Rates

"We are still investigating changes to XP earn rates. Our goal with any updates to XP are transparency and consistent XP gain regardless of your preferred activity. Right now, it’s too slow in general and lopsided towards grinding specific activities (which is not a fun grind) and we want to fix that without making those activities low value to players who aren’t grinding them (fairness is cool). Our first attempt turned out to be unworkably buggy so we’re having to investigate other angles. We will continue to update you as we move forward."

Future Roadmap

January 30th Update

  • Masterwork Armor - Increased Damage during Super, reroll Armor Stats (likely talking about Mob/Res/Rec), and are upgradable via Masterwork Cores just like Weapons are now.
  • Raid Rewards - Gear with Mods including Raid Specific perks, each major Encounter will drop a Reward, and the Raid Vendor will sell both Leviathan and Eater of Worlds items.

February Update

  • Strike Scoring - Nightfall Timers will be replaced by Strike Scoring, "player selectable score modifiers" are a thing, High Scores shown via Emblems and unlocks rewards, and Clan/Community High Scoring Plans are in the works.
  • Mods 2.0 - Full rework of both Armor and Weapon Mods. Reduce Redundant Mods, unique themes, and greatly increase impact on Power. "We will be evaluating how Mods play into the Bright Engram economy as a result, because we’re sensitive to pay-to-win outcomes." (How about just take them out of Bright Engrams...)
  • Quickplay Improvements - Increase pace of gameplay and Power Ammo acquisitions.
  • PC Tower Chat - Text Chat is being added to the Tower for PC.
  • Exotic Repetition Reduction - Players will no longer be able to get the same Exotic twice in a row. (Why not just put back in the higher priority system from D1 that already existed, it worked great...)
  • Fireteam Members on Map - You will now see Fireteam Members on the Map when on a Destination, sadly this is actually a great fix because this became a huge hassle when doing Public Events together.

Spring 2018

This may or may not happen prior to DLC 2, as they say "taking the time we need in development of Expansion 2 that will allow us to react to player feedback from Curse of Osiris", but these changes will drop before or during Season 3.

  • Crucible Ranking - Destiny will be adding 2 Ranking Systems called Valor and Glory. Valor always goes up with every win, but Glory goes up for wins, and down for losses. It was not said whether you choose which one to equip and earn or if you just choose which one to display in Crucible.
  • Private Matches - A thing once lost will return, Private Matches from Destiny 1 will be returning. Sadly they don't seem any more involved than they were in Destiny 1, so the wait doesn't really make sense at all.
  • 6v6 Playlist - A much requested feature is returning. Though under the current Meta it would be beyond awful, so lets hope some major Sandbox Updates hit before this happens.
  • Mayhem Events - Mayhem will return as an Event Playlist similar to how it was in Destiny 1. It will likely be up 1 week each Month. During The Dawning it was basically the only shining beacon of light the Crucible has seen since launch for Destiny 2 PvP, so this is a very great thing.
  • Additional Fixes - They talked about some behind the scenes security fixes and making quiting less common. Not much to talk about here.
  • Sandbox Update - Per usual they will do a Weapons/Ability balance pass and also look specifically at Exotic Weapons and Armors to "ensure they stand out from the rest of the gear and offer new, exciting, powerful ways to play".
  • Seasonal Reputation - Certain Vendors will now have Seasonal Reputation Resets, but this allows them to have Seasonal Rewards that unlock and reset at the end of each Season. This is likely all of the major Tower and Planetary Vendors, so start saving those Tokens.
  • Improved Events - Faction Rallies and Iron Banner will both continue to see updates beyond the changes being made in the next few weeks.
  • Repetition Reduction - Suppose to solve the problem of running into the same Strike or Crucible Maps and Modes consecutively.
  • End Game Player Pursuits - Shifting rewards from Bright Engrams into End Game rewards. They will share more as soon as they can.
  • Multi-Emote - The much talked about Emote Wheel is on it's way. It will allow players to place an Emote in all 4 Emote positions.
  • Vault Space - They are adding 50 Vault Spaces and an Exotic Accessories Tab for Ghosts/Sparrows/Ships. They plan to do more in the future, but it isn't ready to be talked about yet.
  • PC Clan Chat - Clan Chat will be added to the PC version of the game. I'd honestly like to see this on Consoles as well.
  • Heroic Strike Modifiers - They are adding Modifiers back to Heroic Strikes. It sounds like this will include the introduction of brand new modifiers that will likely be added to the Nightfall as well.

Fall 2018 or Sooner (Hopefully)

  • Item Collections and Records
  • Weapon Slot and Archetype Improvements
  • Additional Crucible Playlists (e.g. Rumble)
  • Better Clan Rewards
  • Masterwork Exotics
  • Pinnacle Weapon and Gear Improvements
  • Trials of the Nine improvements
  • Shaders and dismantling
  • The Future of Guided Games
  • Address Solo Vs Fireteam matching

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#2 Posted by VeggiesBro (220 posts) -

I know I won't be the only one but this is where the game should have been to begin with and it is also a terrible timeline. That should be far more condensed and instead it feels like they are trying to sell me these features in the fall DLC.

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#3 Posted by nutter (1505 posts) -

No more Nightfall Timers? I haven't played Destinty 2 since...October? I guess I'll give the game another shot next month (if I can find a couple of friends who are willing to dive back in).

Bungie really screwed up with the launch of this game...

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#4 Posted by notnert427 (2129 posts) -

"We are still investigating changes to XP earn rates. Our goal with any updates to XP are transparency and consistent XP gain regardless of your preferred activity. Right now, it’s too slow in general and lopsided towards grinding specific activities (which is not a fun grind) and we want to fix that without making those activities low value to players who aren’t grinding them (fairness is cool). Our first attempt turned out to be unworkably buggy so we’re having to investigate other angles. We will continue to update you as we move forward."


"We are trying to find new ways to slow XP earn rates. Our goal with any updates to XP is successfully obfuscating the latest XP throttling for the most popular activities. Right now, we're in a brief holding pattern on our shitty tactics to increase the grind (which are prioritized over making a fun game) and we want to resume that ASAP and employ it to make all activities low-value grinds (paying us for shortcuts is cool). Our first attempt got discovered, as did the second, so we're having to get more creative with how we hide this shit. We will continue to fuck you over going forward."

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#5 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (2997 posts) -

Almost every feature mentioned in this update existed in some form in Destiny 1. They are essentially saying that a year after launch, Destiny 2 will be closer to the state Destiny 1 was in when it concluded. That's pathetic. The majority of these things should have been in place at launch. It's still baffling that Destiny 2 is the way it is. It should have been a clear improvement in every way over Destiny 1. Instead it was a superficial improvement in areas that weren't important (more cutscenes, yay) and a step back in almost every areas that mattered to people that enjoyed the first game.

As someone that played the original Destiny for 2000 hours, Destiny 2 is an unbelievable disappointment, and this update has done little to give me hope that will change anytime soon.

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#6 Posted by doctordonkey (1727 posts) -

Real shame what happened to Destiny 2, it plays so well on PC, but it just can't keep my attention.

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#7 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (6354 posts) -

6v6 Playlist - A much requested feature is returning. Though under the current Meta it would be beyond awful, so lets hope some major Sandbox Updates hit before this happens.

Absolutely. Bungie, I know you're not reading this, but I'm going to say it anyway. You get ONE chance at this. Either Destiny 2 PVP becomes as enjoyable as Destiny 1 PVP--crazy thought, I know--or I'm never buying an expansion, however large or small. One chance. 6v6 with the teamshot-ified crap fest that is current D2 PVP would be even worse than the standard 4v4. The time to kill in at least that playlist needs to be adjusted to D1 levels, or this will never work.

My largest concern is that they'll just throw 4 more players into every match without making any changes, people will hate it, and they'll say "see, we told you so" in as PR friendly a way as they can. Prove me wrong you horrifically managed groupthink factory. Prove me wrong.

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#8 Edited by sravankb (544 posts) -

...All of these changes existed in D1. And now they’re telling us that we gotta wait until Fall to actually have it be somewhat similar to how D1 ended.

D2 should’ve been a home run from the get go. They got so much data from those 3 years and should’ve learned a lot from it. But here we are, and I still feel like they don’t know what people liked about D1. Despite its many problems, it had some great things going for it that they took apart for vanilla D2 for no good reason, all the while introducing new problems and “fixing” aspects that no one considered to be problems.

This is fucking pathetic. I have no idea how some of the higher ups at Bungie got where they are now. They’re arrogant, misguided, incompetent at game design, tone deaf, and greedy.

Employee morale has to be in the dumps at a place managed by these types of morons.

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#9 Posted by PistolPackinPoet (300 posts) -

@ll_exile_ll: I'm glad someone feels the same disappointment I did when I posted my review. I am glad they looked at the design philosophy of the first game to make this clusterfuck of a game better. They should have evolved the game they worked on for 7 years. They are working backwards here. And the major changes they made had no pay off other than to piss off their player base. It sucks that I have to wait until Fall 2018 to see the changes I wanna see with the weapon loadout structure. They better make the new mod system make up for lack of rerollable gear because every bit of loot in Destiny 2 is bland in comparison to Destiny 1.

I cannot believe how bad of a timeline Bungie has had from the game's release date to now. Each update has been a disappointment. Masterworks barely add a tick of power. The XP update is a complete failure (I mean why build a progression system with lootboxes. Motes of Light was fine). Seasons are driven by microtransactions.

The only good post-release content in the game was the Raid Lair. But you had to buy it to access it.

Prove me wrong Bungie. I haven't played Destiny 2 since the beginning of December and I probably won't play it until the second expansion (because I already paid for it)

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#11 Posted by nutter (1505 posts) -

@sravankb: Yep. Destiny 1 was a huge bummer, then Taken King came out. My friends all went out and bought the game again and it was great. Bungie was back, and it was glorious.

Then Destiny 2 came out, and it was like the "you had one job!" meme. That amazing foundation that they had, and they completely blew it. Then they went on about how great all the changes were and that they aren't going back to Destiny 1...

While heroic modifiers replacing timers on Nightfalls sounds like a great way to get me to come play again, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to need Luke & co. to get their heads out of their asses re: static stats on loot if they want me to stay.

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#12 Edited by ThePanzini (716 posts) -

So in a years time we'll be right back to where we started prior to D2 release not exactly an exciting prospect nothing worth returning for until the 2nd DLC drops, but there positive changes nontheless.

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#13 Posted by cikame (2552 posts) -

It's going to be hard to make your game feel like its firing on all cylinders when you keep leaving cylinders out until later.

This was an on the fly metaphor.

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#14 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -

My personal opinion, I'm really torn on this. Some of these things are really great, but even much of that are things I've been saying since Day 1 should have been this already or were already in D1 as is. This list would include things like the following...

  • Raid Rewards - 1 drop guaranteed is great and all but why wasn't that there to begin with. Same thing with Raid Specific Mods, this should have been how Raid Armor/Weapons already worked, it's how they all worked in D1.
  • Strike Scoring - We got that in The Dawning Y3, why didn't it follow through to D2?
  • PC Tower/Clan Chat - This should have been a Day 1 feature on PC.
  • Exotic Repetition - They fixed this in D1, and this new system doesn't even seem like it will work as good as the old. Due to Fated Engrams, we know they have the ability to give us Exotic we don't own, so why not just make it a dice roll chance, that grows the more Exotics you own. If you own 3/28 (24 Weapons, 1 PS4 Exclusive, 7 Quest/Story Rewards, 15 Armors on each character, 4 of which are Story Rewards) Exotics you have a 90% chance for a new Exotic, but if you own 24/28 that drops to a 20% chance. For reference, currently I've had about a 90% duplication rate and am still missing 2 Exotics (Khepri's Horn and Crown of Tempests) after 242 hours and about 200 or so Exotics obtained. So out of 69 Exotics, 4 came from Fated Engrams, 24 came directly from Xur, and 17 were Quest rewards, leaving only 22 as RNG drops (2 are still missing and will be obtained 1 later today and 1 next week due to Fated Engrams). Needless to say, Fated Engrams wouldn't be needed if this system wasn't so broken right now, and just preventing you from getting the same Exotic as last time isn't near far enough to prevent duplication in my mind. It worked much better towards the end of D1 if you remove the 3 of Coins part that gave you Exotics too easily. I want Exotics from activities, not Powerful Engram turn in's at the Tower/Cryptarch and not from Xur... that's not exciting. I want that feeling of getting Gjallarhorn or Hawkmoon from killing Crota or Atheon back.
  • Fireteam Member on Map - This is a great change... but why wasn't this always the case? It's been an extremely annoying missing feature since Day 1.
  • Private Matches - This should have been in at launch, it looks no different than the same features we had in D1 since Rise of Iron.
  • End Game Player Pursuits - Moving Bright Engram rewards back to where they belonged in the first place doesn't deserve a congratulations, you screwed up Bungie...
  • Vault Space - We already had Ship/Sparrow Kiosk's and Destiny 2 should have shipped with them, and not just Exotic Kiosks like we are getting... Oh and giving us 50 extra Vault Space just puts us back to the amount of space we had at the end of D1... Thanks?
  • Heroic Strike Modifiers - We literally had this since like Day 1 in Destiny... I'm glad we are finally getting more diversified Modifiers, because in all honesty the ones we currently have suck. Why did we go into D2 with only 4 Modifiers when we had 21 unique modifiers that were mostly pretty good in D2. They should have kept everything but Chaff, Juggler (which seems to always be on now), and Trickle, combined Lightswitch and Brawler, given us the 4 new Modifiers, and then apply 2 positive, 1 negative, and 1 time modifier. Then for Heroics we'd be at 1 positive Modifier per week just like Destiny 1. That was a good situation, why did it change?
  • Item Collection and Records - We had these in Destiny since The Taken King... Why isn't this already in Destiny 2? Along these lines, where is my Quest Tab, I'm extremely tired of Quests taking up Inventory Space in my Kinetic/Power/Ghost slots.
  • Additional Crucible Playlists - Cool I guess, we will get Rumble back, maybe even Elimination and Rift. But all of those already existed, and in my opinion not having Elimination in the rotation for Trials has hurt it tremendously, as Elimination is Trials.
  • Shaders and Dismantling - Shaders should have been able to dismantle since Day 1 in groups, this is so obnoxious this hasn't been fixed in a small update. Maybe this comes with an entire Shader overhaul which is needed, but Dismantling should come sooner, especially when we currently have at least 2x the amount of Shaders in the game as slots to hold them.

New things that are great additions include the following...

  • Masterwork Armor - Masterwork Weapons were a great start, and I have to wonder how much of an impact extra damage resist will be, and if it will stack per Armor or not. This will all be interesting to see. This could be bad for PvP and great for PvE, just depends on how much Armor we are talking extra. But I can't help thinking Masterwork Armor could have done something to assist with the horrifically terrible regen times on Abilities we currently have.
  • Crucible Ranking - This is a long requested feature since Y2 of D1. I'm glad they are finally delivering on this.
  • Seasonal Reputation - This seems like a cool feature, and a reason to save up some Tokens for each Season for Factions like Vanguard, Crucible, Trials, and Planets. Maybe the Exclusive Seasonal Gear will actually be good, who knows.
  • Repitition Reduction - This is something that has been needed in normal Crucible and the Strike Playlists for a long time in Destiny, so this is a very good change.
  • Multi-Emote - This is a cool community requested feature since the beginning of the inception of Emotes and Eververse in D1. I'm glad it's finally coming to fruition.
  • Masterwork Exotics - Masterworks are great, and cool features on Exotics will be even better, especially if they are different base perks than Legendaries that make them stand out more.
  • Solo vs Fireteam Matchmaking - This has always been a problem in Solo Queue PvP. If this is just re-adding Freelance lists I'll be annoyed, but a real fix for this issue could be very good.

Overall it's hard to say how I feel right now. Like many of you here, I'm pissed off that Bungie put Destiny 2 in the position it is currently. And that falls squarely on the leadership at Bungie for both mismanagement and misguided attempts to differentiate Destiny 2 in a lot of nonsensical ways they should have never tried to begin with. But it's also clear the Live Team and guys like Christopher Barrett are doing everything they can fix what is just downright broken with Destiny 2 at the moment. Destiny 2 is a great game in many ways already, but it was often great it ways it didn't even really need to be, and the vast majority of this laundry list for the next year fixes a whole heck of a lot of my gripes since Destiny 2 has launched (this list is honestly a whole lot longer than I was expecting from yesterday's update). So while I'm pissed off that we are here, we are where we are and there is no changing that. This update and the direction we are now headed is indeed a good one, that is as much as we can know for sure right now. If we see all of these changes and then some this year before the next major expansion in the Fall, Destiny 2 will be a much better game.

Though in my opinion a lot of this hinges on Destiny's Sandbox Designer Jon Wisniewski pulling head from rear end and putting out a proper Sandbox Update for Season 3 before the next DLC. Calling Destiny 2's PvP a disaster I think does a disservice to the word disaster, and that all falls squarely at the feet of the worst Sandbox in the history of Destiny. Everything that made Destiny 1 fun in both PvP and PvE (the depth, customization, and speed of combat) was removed for balance and ease of use purposes and the game just feels lifeless, monotonous, and downright boring as a result. Besides 1 more Flawless (to obtain the Warlock Helmet Ornament that looks sick beyond description) and maybe a few more Raid Lair clears with the Clanmates, I probably won't really be touching Destiny 2 until the next DLC. And for those around here that know and have played Destiny with me, that says a lot. Destiny 2 isn't in a good place, and hasn't been for the past 3 months or so, and in it's current state isn't worth mine or anyone else's right now until a lot of these changes come to fruition.

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#15 Edited by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

Maybe if they keep at it Destiny will be decent again... in a year or 2. Hopefully just in time for another better game to come along and take the ''game as a service'' throne out of Bungie's clumsy hands.

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#16 Posted by SgtSphynx (2591 posts) -

Damn, was hoping they would keep Mayhem in for good and not have it be a sometimes thing

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#17 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -
Loading Video...

I just wanted to put this up after watching it. I agree with pretty much everything TripleWreck says here. While I do think Bungie will turn Destiny 2 around eventually, I don't think it will be until next Fall with a major DLC update because it it will take changing core systems (Weapon Loadout System, Subclass Customization, Armor/Weapon Customization) that can't be fixed in such a short time period, and that may be too little too late with so much of Destiny 1's massive community just dropping this game. Not mentioned here is how Anthem is set to release between Nov 2018 - March 2019 sometime and will be the biggest competitor in this space Destiny has ever seen. Bungie needs to get their act together before then which includes things we aren't even sure if they can fix. I think it's telling that one of the best suggested fixes to repair the damage done to with Destiny 2 is just to change most of those systems back to Destiny 1, and kind of infuriating at how much better the game would be for it.

Loading Video...

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#18 Posted by Zevvion (5965 posts) -

Be able to dismantle shaders 7 months from now. Great.

I really do think Destiny 2 launched in a better state than most around here. But the turtle speed at which they aim to fix the game is beyond madness. The reality is that Bungie is a predatory company. They aim to make as much money as possible regardless of player satisfaction or value. They'll adjust things here and there when the outcry gets to be too much so they can keep their money extraction operation running. They know that they only need one year of proper player satisfaction to sell Destiny 3.

So instead of committing to Destiny 2, they instead keep working on D3, expansions and Eververse events until about a year from D3's launch. They'll double down on D2 at that time, so we'll forget all about how shitty of a company they are. Just in time to maximize D3 pre-orders.

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#19 Posted by nutter (1505 posts) -

@zevvion: My gripe is that they righted Destiny about a year in (Taken King). The salvage job they did with that mediocre game was amazing and continued into year 3.

Instead of building on what worked, they gave us Destiny 2, a solid game with an abysmal end-game that left all the lessons learned over the past three years on the cutting room floor.

It seems popular to claim "I'd rather just have Destiny 1: Year Four," and I get it. There were too many steps backwards in this sequel.

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#20 Posted by harryorgans (13 posts) -

PVP is trash and that was my main draw in D1. Until they seriously overhaul it, it will be hard to pull me back. PVE, which I really wanted to dig into for Destiny 2 (raiding, nightfall , etc), also suffers big time because Power Level and Gear is basically meaningless. They need to stop scaling regular content to your power level and reserve difficulty and challenge to Prestige modes once you are at max light. Being max light makes such a small difference in your overall power in any given activity, which really makes the entire game feel lame. They also need to gate the top 5-10 power levels behind end game content (you shouldn't be able to get max light from just completing milestones) to actually give you a reason to hit that content multiple times.

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#21 Edited by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

@hestilllives19: some of these changes are definitely too armchair game designer-y. I do agree with the general sentiment though. PvP time to kill, cooldowns and subclasses need a major overhaul in order to bring the fun back to the game.

Now when will that happen? Maybe this fall, maybe later, maybe never. One thing is for sure: I'm not playing Destiny until then. Just the thought of playing these lame ass Hunter subclasses in this trash PvP meta makes me somewhat nauseous.

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#22 Posted by galerian (162 posts) -

@hestilllives19:Anthem is going to be good but not great. Bioware loot system and shooting have never been great, they are just serviceable. I think they also gonna miss the first quarter of this year, and might be a summer release.

I think if Bungie manage to fix D2 before that game releases, we might end up with The Division situation all over again.

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#23 Edited by Zevvion (5965 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: They are never going to overhaul subclasses. Bungie aims to generate money, nothing else. We know this for a fact as they have claimed they created Destiny 2 not to fulfill a vision or not to be a great game, but to sell to the most amount of people. This is what they have said. Based on Eververse events that is further emphasized.

From there, it is pretty easy to see their reasoning. They will only change things that actively affect sales. This is consistent community pushback. They would not in a million years have changed Eververse unless literally every thread and news story about them was about it, creating negative feedback and affecting sales. Therefor, they have now said to change parts of it. There has been no significant community backlash against subclasses, therefor it will not change. Not ever. Why would they? It won't make them money.

I was so happy when Destiny 2 launched. I saw a fantastic foundation for future updates. D2 coupled with this new pipeline for them to change things and add content. We would get more stuff every 2 months and within that time stuff would be changed on the fly as needed. Amazing.

Nope. What I failed to realize then and I do realize now is that Bungie as it once existed is gone. One of my favorite FPS-developers who had passion, ambition, vision and love for their community have literally none of that today. Which means they are dead as I once knew them. They are now a predatory company that aims to extract as much funds from their audience as possible, while trying to walk the line so that they can get away with it. They did not use D2 as a foundation, they used it as a storefront. They didn't build off it, they moved to the next project. They did not commit to it, they committed to D3 and Y5 DLC.

Because sales. Because money.

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#24 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: From that video or my suggestions? I get that criticism from the video a bit, but also don't really like that phrase. Obviously only Bungie are the designers of Destiny, but that shouldn't prevent content creators (people like Aztecross, Datto, TripleWreck, TrueVanguard, etc) who know and understand the game (often better than Bungie themselves from a Gameplay point of view) from making suggestions on how to fix the game's problems. We see the game from the gameplay persective far more often than Bungie could even hope to with our billions of hours played, and those people's job is to literally spend all day talking to other players about the game. It is also evident that many of Aztecross's suggestions (made originally by another player named Kujay), while most are just copy/paste jobs from D1, are shared by Bungie based on both Christopher Barrett's State of Destiny Post and preceding Twitter Posts. Here are a few examples.

  • Weapon Loadout System - "Weapon Slot and Archetype Improvements" was slated for Fall 2018 or sooner. Christopher Barrett also went on Twitter to say this, "Destiny 2 needs more weapons that matter, both in power and the hunt to acquire them. Exotics need to live up to their name. The most skillful or visceral weapons like Snipers, Shotguns, and Fusion Rifles need to return to glory. We’re on it." This suggests that major overhauls are coming to Snipers, Shotguns, and Fusion Rifles specifically. With the hint that "Weapon Slot" changes may be occurring in the future, I think it's very likely that at least some if not all Snipers, Shotguns, and Fusion Rifles will be returning to the Energy Slots. Like Aztecross's video suggests, it would also make a lot of sense, to therefor bring Linear Fusion Rifles and Line Rifles (whom already occupy said space, likely with a buff to Line Rifles to bring them in line with the Power of the other new Energy Weapons) into the Energy Weapon Slot as well. As Aztecross states, this would leave the then current Power Weapons a bit lacking in Weapons with only Rocket Launchers, Grenade Launchers, and Swords, so either Linear Fusion Rifles stay and receive Sleeper Simulant level of Power increase, or Heavy Machine Guns (which just don't work in the current Heavy economy, but would in this new economy) would be brought back (also, think of all the free reusable Exotics they'd have again like Thunderlord, Nova Mortis, Abbadon, Super Good Advice, and Nemesis Star; they love that crap). I actually put this change of Aztecross's suggestions as the most likely to the sandbox, but probably won't happen until Fall 2018, or at the start of Season 4 at the earliest. Because until this change happens, the vast majority of the PvP community just will not ever return, and it benefits the PvE community as well, all while fixing the biggest gripe of Destiny 2, the lack of "Hero Moments".
  • Mobility, Resiliance, and Recovery Tuning - This is one of the thinner points, but I think both Masterwork Armor and Mods 2.0 will touch on how these stats impact players. I also think the Sandbox Update for Season 3 will probably touch, albeit in a much more minor way than Aztecross is suggesting, on what kind of Impact Mobility has on the overall game and increase it's effectiveness in some tangible way. This needs to happen, because as it stands, Mobility is beyond useless. Mobility should be tied more heavily to the movement speed of the player (especially when paired with Boots that increase Ground Speed like StompE's, Dunemarchers, and Transversive Steps or any Lightweight Weapon), but with this there needs to be a drastic increase in the movement speed of Destiny 2 at the base level. Destiny 2 is far slower than Destiny 1, and it has removed a lot of the fun from the game.
  • Armor/Weapon Loadout System - Mods 2.0 will very likely be a combination of things. For Armor, it will very likely combine all Grenade Recharge, Class Recharge, and Melee Recharge Mods into 1 Mod, no matter your Armor Piece or Subclass. It will do the same for all Existing Mods (from Development Update "focus on reducing redundant mods"). My hope is that, like Azetecross, we will be allowed to use 1 Character Mod (Recharge Mods + Mob/Res/Rec), and 1 Other Mod (Counterbalance, Munition, Handling, and Reload) on each Armor Piece. My hope is that this line, "more unique theming, and greatly increasing their impact on your power" means that we will see a return some D1 Perks as Mods, things like Perfect Balance, Hammer Forged, Braced Frame and others for Weapon Mods and Switchblade, Fastball, Angel of Mercy, Ashes to Assets, Better Already, and Shine On for Armor Mods. We do know that Mods with Raid Specific Perks are coming on January 30th for Raid Gear, and I'm going to assume that is stuff like what we saw in Destiny 1's Raid Gear Perks. My hope is that Mods 2.0 lives up to Bungie's hype about it, but honestly it would only mean that Mods 2.0 is what I thought Mods were originally going to be to begin with.

Here is what I don't think can happen though, Weapon Slots will not be renamed from Kinetic, Energy, and Power back to Primary, Secondary, and Heavy, as I doubt that is even possible, but effectively, I do think that is what they will do, is revert the system back to a form of the D1 Weapon System. Unlike Aztecross though, I do not think Sidearms can survive when placed next to Shotguns. They didn't in D1, and won't here, therefor they should remain/move in/to the Kinetic Slot just like all Scout/Pulse/Hand Cannon/Auto Rifle/SMG's. While I desperately think they should fix Subclasses (it's a major issue), I agree with @zevvion, I highly doubt they will touch them at all, besides balance patches (for the love of all that is holy fix Aim Assist on Invisibility) and maybe adding new Subclass Perk Trees. I also do not think we will ever see a return of Titan or Warlock Skating, which as sad as it makes me, I'm ok with. I do not think we will ever see Intellect, Dicipline, or Strength ever again, and we shouldn't, Mods can do that without needing to attach those monikers to them. And while I would love Quickplay to be solely connection based Matchmaking with Valor being the Ranking system for Quickplay and Skill Based Matchmaking for Competitive with Glory being the Ranking system there and Trials, I do not think this will happen. For the past 2 1/2 years, since halfway through The Taken King, Bungie has been relentlessly pushing SBMM in all playlists and gotten constant flack about it, to which they have done next to nothing about. They will not change course now.

The biggest problem is Bungie's whole Sandbox Design Philosophy from Jon Wisniewski for Destiny 2 being broken, so just fixing these things won't solve all of the issues, and other major overhauls to the Sandbox are needed. A lot of this is also discussed in Azetecross's video, but if I was to delve into that particular rabbit hole, this would be way too long and it's already getting to that point. I will say that I agree with about 90% of what he said (obviously not the Sidearm stuff), that he missed a lot of stuff that needs to be touched like Class Balance and other changes to make certain Weapons more viable, but this video, for the most part was headed in the right direction. I went back and played D1 PvP last night, and it's stupid how much more fun I had. That game just feels more crisp, guns feel more accurate (even bad ones because all I had was a Fatebringer and Exmachina for PvP which I never would have used back in the day), and the faster movement speed (I honestly took a minute to even remember how to Titan Skate, haha, and it still felt twice as fast) mixed with the faster TTK just felt more like the Destiny I love. Destiny 2 needs to go back to it's roots.

Note: I do want to point out how Aztecross's video talks about Int/Dis/Str, because his points about those reducing recharge times and his actual times are pretty on point (his current 0 times are the current times in game). But I think the Mods 2.0 will be able to do all of that on it's own. I think having 5 slots dedicated to Character Mods, and capping usefulness at 2 of any single Mod like it works now is fine (which includes capping Mob/Res/Rec at +2 as well), but here is about where I think Cooldowns should be...

  • Titan Barricade - Base: 40s, 1 Mod: 33s, 2 Mods: 26s
  • Warlock Rift - Base: 70s, 1 Mod: 63s, 2 Mods: 55s
  • Hunter Dodge - Base: 25s, 1 Mod: 19s, 2 Mods: 12s
  • Grenades - Base: 75s, 1 Mod: 60s, 2 Mods: 45s
  • Melles - Base: 75s, 1 Mod: 60s, 2 Mods: 45s

@galerian: I had the dates wrong, should have been November 2018 to March 2019. That is when Anthem, at least as far as I know right now, speculated to release (it's suppose to be Fall 2018, but will likely be pushed back as far as March, but I think the investor call said is has to come out by Q4 2018).

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#25 Posted by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

@hestilllives19: When I say stuff is armchair game designer-y I mean when people put specific numbers and percentages on their theories on how the make the game better. I feel like triplewreck's approach to speaking his mind and outlining key changes is much better than putting some random numbers on everything like we know how all that stuff would impact the meta in PvP and PvE.

So for my money, the game needs:

  • Faster time to kill in PvP. Maybe you get there by going back to primary/secondary/heavy but I'm not sure that's necessary or that great of an idea. If they go back to that system they need to overhaul heavy weapons. The heavy weapon dynamic was always kind of uninspired in Destiny 1 in both PvP and PvE. The secondary weapon balance also needs to be better. I get why they got rid of that system. It never got to a good equilibrium where all weapon types had their uses in PvP and PvE in the first game. I'm skeptical they'll go back to the old system considering it would require rebalancing a bunch of exotics and weapon archetypes as well as a lot of PvE encounters. It's an insane amount of work and I very much fear if they do this they won't be able to actually implement anything new or exciting into the game, AGAIN.
  • Faster cooldowns. There is a lot of ways they could go about this. It's a great opportunity to make some interesting random loot people would want to chase. Put some MEANINGFUL cooldown reduction perks on armor or mods with random rolls. No need to go back to the obtuse 5 tier system. You can implement something new and more intuitive. As long as I can use my super a couple times per match and have a grenade when I need it instead of hitting the button and drawing a blank or forgetting I even have grenades because of how long they take to come back.
  • Subclasses overhaul. Hunter dodge is dogshit. It has almost no uses in PvE, it's boring to use in PvP, requires a damn premium controller to use optimally and doesn't have anything to do with the Destiny power fantasy. It is utter trash, get rid of it or put it into a specific subclass tree. Find something else for Hunters. Maybe this time don't steal a Destiny 1 ability so lazily? Titan barricade also needs some changes but I think it could be turned into something interesting. Using it in fast cooldown nighfalls feels right. Find a way to make it feel right and useful all the time. Arcstrider, dawnblade and sunbreaker have interesting mechanics that make them stand out but they're incredibly weak and bad. Build these subclasses around their mechanics (arcstrider melee, dawnblade float, sunbreaker sunspot). Add other complementary mechanics on top if need be. I want differentiated subclasses that feel powerful and fun to play. The benchmark is devour voidwalker. If you make a subclass that is not as fun as voidwalker you failed.
  • Exotic armor. Make better exotic armor. This is linked to the subclass problem. Like subclasses, exotic armor was made mostly boring and weak. Not enough exotic armor feels unique or interesting to use. It's very rarely OP, entirely useless the rest of the time.

That's about it for my biggest issues with the game. I could go into reward systems but that's probably the most common complaint so I won't rehash what has been said a hundred times already.

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#26 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: The things that need to be done in the next Sandbox Update (most of which probably won't happen) is pretty long. You covered some of it, but the sad part is because of how systematically broken the game was designed, missing some parts still keep it broken. I still think we will see a return of a form of Primary/Special/Heavy, but I don't think that will at all happen until next September, so I won't even be talking about that. Here is what to do to fix the game as it is now. (Things with a * are things that absolutely have to be addressed by Bungie soon, and if they don't address these, they just flat out aren't doing their jobs)


No Caption Provided
  • TTK - Needs to be decreased across the board back to around where Destiny 1 is now and lower (I'll explain), which is between 0.8-0.9s optimally and 1.2-1.6s on Body Shots only (depending on the gun, High Impact Pulses actually optimally come in at 0.67, but it's a feat extremely hard to accomplish, same with Last Word at 0.53, which never happens due to Ghost Bullets). Source - D1 Massive Breakdown. Destiny 2 has a current TTK with a wide range, lower the less range a gun has, which is a good system. Sidearms are at 0.8/1.13s (people only use Last Hope tier), SMG's are at 0.9/1.2s (people only use Antiope tier), Auto Rifles at 1.2/1.47s, Hand Cannons at 1.2-1.3/1.6-1.73s, Pulses at 1.2/1.73s, and Scouts at 1.2-1.33/1.67-1.8. Source - D2 Massive Breakdown. Granted these are just the versions of those guns people use. That 1.6s D1 Bodyshot TTK was a gun nobody used, coversely, D2 has several guns with a 2.13 and 2.27 Bodyshot, but nobody uses those weapons. So the goal would be to shift all of these numbers down in order. I made a detailed chart of how I think it should go in the image above.
  • *Range - Auto Rifles need a slight decrease in effective range, so pull in their falloff range by about 5m. Similarly push out Pulses by about 10m, because in the current Meta, they just don't fare well against Scouts at Long range, and are beat by Auto's in Mid/Long range.* They should own that Mid/Long range, where Auto's and Hand Cannons fight it out in Mid, and SMG's and Sidearms own the Close range.
  • *Accuracy - Many Precision Weapons in D2 lack Accuracy, especially noticeable on Consoles and Gamepads on PC. A lot of this has to do with massive changes or reversions to Bloom, Aim Assist, and Initial Shot Accuracy from D1 to D2. One of the major reasons Autos, Sidearms, and SMG's are used constantly on Consoles, is that they are relatively unaffected by this. Pulses are also effected in a minor way. Scout Rifles, Sniper Rifles, and Hand Cannons see this in a major way, so much that both Hand Cannons and Sniper Rifles, two of the top preferred weapons of D1, aren't used at all. Scouts only see use due to the fact that Mida has 100 AA (Max) and is relatively unaffected by this as well, and they outrange every other Primary Weapon, thus making them indispensable. All 3 of these Weapon Classes need increased base Aim Assist and Initial Shot Accuracy. It's no surprise that the best working Hand Cannons have the perk Opening Shot which increases Initial Shot Accuracy. Like late in D1, Bloom needs to be again reduced across the board for every weapon Class.* General increase to in air accuracy.
  • Flinch - Drastic reductions to Flinch when taking fire. This is obnoxious (this was also done before High Caliber Rounds were nerfed), especially from the side. And High Caliber Rounds were never the problem, the base Flinch is set drastically too high for Destiny 2.
  • *Bugs - On PC, The Colony currently doesn't track targets like intended when running above 30 FPS, this needs to be fixed. It makes the number 1 used Exotic on Consoles useless on PC.*

Ammo Economy

  • *PvE - Guarantee that 50% of all normal enemies drop either Kinetic or Energy Ammo randomly, and not dependent on which weapon you are currently using (Juggler is seemingly currently on all the time, this is not ok). Elite enemies should not just have a chance to drop Power Ammo, but have a 100% chance that if a Player shoots that Elite enemy even once (even if they do not get the kill), a Power Ammo brick will drop.*
  • PvP - Increase initial Power Ammo Spawns to 60s (some Gamemodes now drop it at 10s into a match, which is both confusing and tilts a match far too early) for Quickplay Modes and 45s for Competitive. Ammo should spawn at 45s intervals thereafter. The biggest change though is that 4 Power Ammo Stations will spawn, 1 on each side and 2 in neutral locations. This will provide for more dynamic experiences and more "Hero Moments". Killing defenseless players isn't fun, but challenging others who have Power Ammo with your own Power Ammo is. Mayhem Power Ammo spawning will be unchanged.
  • Power Ammo PvP - *All Rocket Launchers will only receive 1 Rocket per Power Ammo obtained rather than the current 2, but in Mayhem, will be guaranteed 1 Rocket if they pick up Ammo from a killed player.* Similarly, The Colony will only receive 3 Grenades rather than 4 for each Power Ammo obtained and 2 for each killed opponent in Mayhem who already has Power Ammo.

Class Balance

  • Ability Recharge Times - As denoted in my previous Post, Ability recharge times should be changed to roughly as follows... Which will create a more dynamic experience and allow abilities to be use far more frequently than they currently are if those Mods are applied.
    • Titan Barricade - Base: 40s, 1 Mod: 33s, 2 Mods: 26s
    • Warlock Rift - Base: 70s, 1 Mod: 63s, 2 Mods: 55s
    • Hunter Dodge - Base: 25s, 1 Mod: 19s, 2 Mods: 12s
    • Grenades - Base: 75s, 1 Mod: 60s, 2 Mods: 45s
    • Melees - Base: 75s, 1 Mod: 60s, 2 Mods: 45s
  • Ability Damage/Usage - Abilities need to hit harder than they currently do across the board.
    • Titan Barricade - Damage is fine, but capping it at leaving players with 30% health prevents it's use in many situations on things such as cap points. It's should be allowed to kill players standing close enough to an opponents barrier to have their health burned down by it.
    • Grenades - Most grenades needs damage boosts across the board, this would effect all grenades but Pulses, Voidwalls, Vortex, Solar, Spike, Lightning, and Thermite. Lightning Grenades delay cut in half. The increase in damage on Fusion, Flux, Magnetic, and Incendiary would come from their secondary Explosions that would cause more damage in a larger radius, thus pushing players apart in PvP and hitting multiple AI in PvE. Explosion Radius should also be increased by Flashbang, Suppressor, and Tripmine and Scatters will track from further and have a larger Explosive Radius as well. The whole goal here is to make Grenades more effective at a wider range across the board, thereby hitting multiple opponents with 1 hit when they are clumped together for higher damage numbers than they currently do, but also not outright killing Guardians in PvP on their own.
    • Melee - Melee attacks currently do not do enough damage. In PvE, it often takes two punches for stronger trash enemies to kill of which it should just be 1. In PvP, it takes 3 Melee's to kill another player from full health. That should only take 2.
    • Movement Speed - Movement speed in Destiny 2 is far too slow. Back when IGN did their First Look at Destiny 2, movement speed was closer to Destiny 1. The game should go back to this. Notice, strafe, weapon ready/stow, ground and jump movement speed is faster.
  • Striker - Earthshaker might be one of the best, most balanced Perk Tree's in Destiny 2, I wouldn't touch it. Juggernaut needs some love, but the base perks are so bad I have no idea how that can be accomplished, but buffs here are needed.
  • Sunbreaker - After the recent balance patch, Fireforged is actually in a rather good place in PvE, as denoted by it being the most useful Titan Class for the Raid Lair due to Vulcan Rage. I would however add Hammer Strike to both Fireforged and Siegebreaker while Hammer of Sol is active, allowing players to Hammer Strike other players just like you can Shoulder Charge them on Striker or Shield Bash them on Sentinel. The only change I would make to Siegebreaker would be to make Solar Siege also create a Sunspot where the user throws a Hammer from as well, thus allowing the player to always start in a Sunspot without having to throw his first hammer into the ground at his feet.
  • Sentinel - Ward of Dawn on Code of the Protector needs a bit more health to it, and *Shield Bashes on both tree's during Sentinel Shield should be much more consistent. It often hits players and moves them but does zero damage. This has happened since the Beta's.*
  • Titan - Shield Bash, Hammer Strike, and Shoulder Charge should all push opponents back 15m or so in the air when hit and not killed, similar to how Tractor Cannon works. We need more goofy stuff in Destiny. This is one of my favorite Destiny 1 moments... we need more of that.
  • Nightstalker - *Invisibility breaking Aim Assist on Activation and thereafter is so beyond broken. It's the sole reason the vast majority of Trials players are playing only on Nightstalker currently. It is far too easy to get out of losing fights just by hitting OO and running away, especially in combination with Gemini Jesters which blind and remove radar from opponents. It's straight up broken currently. This needs to be fixed ASAP, is systematically ruining an already bad Crucible.* Shadowshot hits in PvP should also do enough damage to kill Non-Super players outright. Anchors from a Shadowshot should also both attach and Suppress targets in less than half the time they currently do, as often you can shoot a Shadowshot, watch a Supered player run through the Tether, kill you, run to the edge of the Tethers range, and then be grabbed by it. It's obnoxious. The base range of Tether without Deadfall should have increased range and last a bit longer, thereby making Mobius Quiver more viable. Shadowshot should also apply it's 25% debuff to Boss's in Strikes and Raids for Power Ammo in addition to Kinetic/Energy damage. Not dealing additional damage from the largest Spike damage weapons you will use against Bosses makes Shadowshot pointless in these situations, which is a terrible idea.
  • Gunslinger - Both Outlaw and Sharpshooter are in a good place now that 6-Shooter is fixed. I would however increase the damage Throwing Knives currently do to bring it in line with other Abilities under a lowered TTK. The goal here is that in PvP, a Mid Impact HC (like Better Devils) Headshot plus a Throwing Knife Crit should result in a kill (so roughly 135-140 damage, similarly to D1).
  • Arcstrider - Combination Blow on Warrior should work like Devour, and instantly fill your entire health bar rather than start health regen. On Wind, Lightnight Reflexes also turns you invisible on Dodge. High Jump is replaced with Blink. Speed of the Arc Staff animations are increased slightly, thus improving performance while moving towards targets, and in combination with Blink can provide Bladedancer levels of evasiveness.
  • Hunter - Give Dodge some sort of team oriented ability. Something like Marksman Dodge reloads the equipped Weapon of all Teammates within 10m or Gambler's Dodge stuns AI within 20m temporarily. Sadly I don't think much more than this can be done.
  • Voidwalker - Hunger is easily the best, most well rounded and balance Class in Destiny 2, and it shouldn't be touched. Chaos however is extremely unreliable due to Cataclysm. It's too slow, and too unpredictable if it is going to actually track targets. Sometimes it tracks them to the ends of the earth, and other times it doesn't track at all. Therefor decrease range of tracking, increase the pull of the tracking, and speed up the overall movement of Cataclysm. *Chaos Accelerant is also broken in Mayhem, allowing player to use those Grenades as Supers, like this, so this needs to be fixed ASAP.*
  • Stormcaller - Elements is easily the 3rd best Tree in Destiny 2, I also wouldn't touch it. Stormcaller is probably all around in the best shape, I probably wouldn't touch Ions either.
  • Dawnblade - Dawnblade is almost a lost cause, because it's a Class built around something that just doesn't work in Destiny. But, to increase it's effectiveness a couple things need to happen. Increase in Air Accuracy for all Weapons via Winged Sun, Winged Sun can only Activate while already Gliding and needs to maintain current altitude for up to 3s, and Daybreak Swords throws should go further and faster, and within normal Sword Range, Daybreak should Slash the target like a Normal Sword, rather than throwing a Sword (or at least there should be a button combo to do that on purpose, like the melee button).
  • Warlock - Glide drops player much more quickly when cut, and activates much more quickly. Look back to D1's Glide, it worked much better. D2's Glide is drastically more floaty and slower to respond, especially on Dawnblade with Winged Sun which activates far more frequently than you want it to, leaving players floating up in the air when they don't want to be.


Weapons (keep in mind, the assumption is that TTK is increased at it's base already, just like all other weapons of these Archtypes, thus no change is needed to Weapons such as Jade Rabbit)

  • Crimson - Since Bungie basically made Crimson a Pulse Rifle, a couple things will be changed. It's range and falloff are pushed out to High Impact Pulse Range. In addition, stowed ammo capacity now also resembles that of a Pulse Rifle.
  • Rat King - Rat Pack perks stack with fewer Guardians, and that stack is stronger, making actual Rat Pack's viable.
  • Hard Light - For a gun with 82 (near Max) Stability, the gun moves like crazy when fired. Visual stability needs to increase dramatically when fired, the gun as it currently stands bucks like a Bronco.
  • *Promethius Lens - Weeks ago the most powerful gun to ever grace the hands of Guardians, this gun is now a shell of it's former self. Damage needs to be increased to at least meet that of Coldheart at minimum.* Though in my mind I'd love to see Heat Fields that once again proc on occassion (though nowhere near as often as they did when the gun was outright broken), giving it a slight advantage over Coldheart, since it lacks the 23 extra Rounds of Ammo Coldheart has.
  • Skyburner's Oath - For the Empire needs to do drastically more damage to Cabal than it currently does as a bonus. Think a 30% bonus rather than the like 5% it gets now.
  • Graviton Lance - Black Hole's recoil needs to be dramatically toned down, especially with a Max 100 Stability Weapon. Most of the damage from the Black Hole Shot should be done by the Black Hole, rather than by whether or not it is a Crit or Bodyshot. In other words, each shot does X damage per Crit and Y per Bodyshot, but Black Hole does Z damage on every 3rd hit no matter where the target is hit. This improves the gun in both PvP and PvE and makes it far easier to use.
  • Borealis - Ionic Return now refills the entire magazine, only if the enemy Shield is the corresponding Element, rather than adding 1 bullet back to the magazine.
  • Tractor Cannon - Increased effective Range. You can punt others from much further back.
  • *Wardcliff Coil - Fix the bug for Ammo where switching from Wardcliff grants players Max Ammo of other Weapons, but switching to it removes all Power Ammo.*


  • Khepri's Horn - The Solar Blast of energy continues to Pulse forward like a Thermite Grenade for the duration of the Barrier.
  • Helm of Saint 14 - When either Guarding with a Shield or walking out of a Ward of Dawn, players also receive a Blessing Overshield.
  • The Stag - When a nearby player dies, Dearly Departed now also grants you Super Energy.
  • Eye of Another World - Cerebral Uplink counts as having 1 Class, 1 Melee, and 1 Grenade Mod equipped already. If you already have 2 Mods of any of these, you get an additional 5s quicker cooldown on that ability.
  • Crown of Tempests - Similar to Nezarac's Sin, Crown decreases ability cooldowns on any Arc kills, including Arc Weapon kills.
  • Celestial Nighthawk - When using Sharpshooter in conjunction with Nighthawk, Crowd Pleaser spawns 6 Orbs on Crit rather than just 2.
  • Young Ahamkara's Spine - Allows you to carry 2 Throwing Knives as well.
  • Winter's Guile - Increased Melee range.
  • Ophidian Aspects - Normal Melee range. Feed the Void instantly regenerates you Melee ability.
  • ACD/O Feedback Fences - Fury Conductors actually do "massive damage" when hit by either AI or other Guardians, think 75% health in PvP. It is also no longer dependent on Melee kills, but rather just kills to hit it's max effectiveness.
  • Vesper of Radius - Arc Souls damage is increased.
  • Lucky Raspberry - Increased chance that Arc Bolts that attach will be returned to the player.
  • Crest of Alpha Lupi - Generates an Orb of Light upon Barricade activation for both the player and others rather than during Super for others.
  • Lion Rampant - Some momentum is kept while jumping forwards, while not quite Titan Skating, it resembles the first boost while Skating in D1, and that speed is maintained.
  • MK 44 Stand Asides - Grant the Overshield no matter your health level. Hits with Seismic Strike, Shield Bash, or Hammer Strike fully recharge Melee energy.
  • Dunemarchers - Increased Ground speed is much more noticeable, as it is the equivalent to +4 Mobility. Enemies who damage is chained to from a melee, will chain damage to any enemy close to them as well.
  • Transversive Steps - Increased Ground speed is much more noticeable, as it is the equivalent to +4 Mobility. All weapons are automatically reloaded while sprinting.
  • Stomp EE5's - Increased Ground speed is much more noticeable, as it is the equivalent to +4 Mobility. Rather than an improved jump height, players receive an extra jump.
  • Lunafaction Boots - Players within a Rift will automatically have all Weapons, stowed or readied, filled to full once per second, for the duration of the rift, from reserve ammo.
  • *Gemini Jester - Dodging near enemies disorients players longer, but no longer removes their radar.*
  • *Lucky Pants - Precision hits with Hand Cannons loads 1 Bullet into the magazine of the equipped Hand Cannon from reserves, no longer the stowed weapon. (there is a current glitch with this people are abusing in Raids)*


  • Return of Elimination to Competitive/Trials.
  • Return of Rift to Quickplay.
  • Return of Zone Control to Competitive.
  • Return of Combined Arms to 6v6 as a periodic playlist.
  • Add back Mercy to Trials on every card that gets to 1 win.

If I saw these as patch notes, I would return that day.

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#27 Posted by BallsLeon (528 posts) -

Hey Bungie! How about a big team battle with vehicles? It's a proven formula.

6v6, is a half-step in the right direction

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#28 Posted by Hestilllives19 (1211 posts) -

@ballsleon: Yeah, they had it in D1 as a rotating Weekly Playlist. It's one of the things I'd like to see back as well. It was called Combined Arms. I'd be fine with just seeing the Combined Arms Maps from D1 returning with D2 vehicles like Bastion, First Light, Timekeeper, and Skyshock.

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#29 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (6354 posts) -

Great news, everyone! Bungie has admitted that a change found in the latest patch is not working as intended! They understand they've made a mistake, and they're working to fix it! They're really listening to us! They're going to make the game better! Here's another sentence that ends in an exclamation point!

Seriously, at this point, somebody high-up in the development team needs to be escorted out of the building by security, and Bungie needs to not fuck anything up again for at least a year. This is downright embarrassing.

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