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    Destiny 2

    Game » consists of 4 releases. Released Sep 06, 2017

    The full-fledged follow-up to Bungie's sci-fi "looter shooter", streamlining much of the previous game's mechanics while featuring larger worlds and new abilities. It was later made free-to-play.

    The Perks of Being a Sunbreaker...a Fire-Forged Intro and Guide

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    Bvb_Finn

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    #1  Edited By Bvb_Finn
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    The Perks of Being a Sunbreaker

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    Introduction

    Now, I know what you're thinking....”Oh god, a Sunbreaker guide? They're the worst Titan subclass in the game! They nerfed the hell outta them right?!” Well...now...gimme a few minutes here to plead my case. I'm certain that by the end of it, you'll be itching to master the class yourself. So, slip back into that arm chair...or toilet...and read up on what I gotta say here... 'cause I promise, its going to be worth it.

    Now, lets get started by getting some things out of the way first. I dont go over every grenade because I personally believe Thermite to be the best option for this kind of playstle. I dont go over the jumps because, well, lol. And I simply dont do too much math because lets face it, math sucks. Not really, I suck, but thats a hard pill to swallow so lets just keep it moving along here. Basically, below is going to be a little intro into the Sunbreaker Fire Forged Tree with some subtle hints on how to play and what to play with. I will go into little detail about actual numbers, but im going to let a super good guy by the name of The Bugler tell you all about that in detail, with his own wide array of excellent D2 video Guides. Along the way im going to have various links such as boss fights and other visual aid, not to mention a little more write up on how to maximize gameplay as this sort of Breaker. So lets get started...

    The best defense is a good offense”

    Code of the Fire-Forged

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      Tempered Metal – Solar ability kills grant you and nearby allies bonus movement and reload speed,. Lasts 15 seconds, can reapply the time with additional solar ability kills and can stack your buff speed, up to 3x. Once good, you can have nearly zero downtime on your (TM) buff. The movement speed works in the same way as Mobility, therefore, youre base jump is whats going to be effected most.

    How Tempered Metal Effects a slow reloading HC like the True Prophecy

    Without Tempered Metal Buff

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    With Tempered Metal Buff

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    With Tempered Metal x2 Buff

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    With Tempered Metal x3 Buff

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    • Hammer Strike – While sprinting, use this Melee Ability to swing a blazing hammer that weakens enemies. Debuffs enemy for 6 seconds, increasing damage dealt from ALL sources. This talent is pivotal to you and your allies DPS capabilities.

    Example of Hammer Strike buff on a Vex Minotaur HVT, using a Wardcliff Coil

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        Explosive Pyre – Enemies killed by Hammer of Sol explode. Realistically, you are rarely using your Super with this build. But I have also learned that many Boss like enemies will have trash mobs around them frequently, therefore both this and Vulcans' Rage are quite useful in that aspect.

    • Vulcan's Rage – Hammers shatter into explosive molten embers on impact. As mentioned before, this finds its usefulness during the boss fight. But besides helping take out nearby trashies, it also makes your Hammers have cluster bombs thats simmer into molten embers. So you can find that these clusters actually do help out, especially with the Hammer Strike(HS)debuff active granting essentially much more damage potential than that of a Seigebreaker Sunbreaker.
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    Example of both Pyre and Rage on 2 Ultras during a HPE on Titan

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    • Thermite Grenade – A grenade that sends forward a burning line of fire. Very much essential to this build. Much wider than it looks, you can actually be 3-4 kills with every single grenade you throw, rather easily. Very long in distance, quite wide as well. Pulses and does decent damage. Will kill most things in a single pulse though. Try and throw it in front of the enemies you are looking to kill.

    Example of Multikill with Thermite(throw nade in front of group)

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    Example of Hammer Strike buffing Thermite Nade

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    The fire burned within us. Not by choice, not because we sought the flame. But because there was no other way”

    Gear/Mods/Stats

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    • Hallowfire Heart– Greatly improves the recharge rate of your Solar abilities while Hammer of Sol is charged. This Exotic Armor is essential to this build. It more than halves your cooldown times on abilities. *Does not effect Barricade

    with Hallowfire Heart on;

    Solar Ability C/Ds with Full Super

    -Hammer Strike; 24 seconds

    -Thermite Grenade; 24 seconds

    -Barricade; 36 seconds

    Solar Ability C/Ds without Full Super

    -Hammer Strike; 1 minute 8 seconds

    -Thermite Grenade; 1 minute 13 seconds

    -Barricade; 36 seconds

    *Mod setup I use is down below.

    *SIDE NOTE: Hallowfire is basically our only Exotic armor as of right now, but its also the only one we really need. We rely heavily on the increased recharge rate so that we can keep out Tempered Metal Buff up, and have Hammer Strike active when we need it. Some people see holding your super as a bad thing, but in all honesty, the ONLY time you are going to need your super is for actual Bosses.

    Its also good to note that some people find it easier to use an Exotic such as the Mask of the Quite One until Super is fully charged, and then switching to the Hallowfire Heart. I find that I dont normally have toruble getting my super quickly, so its not something I do, but if you find yourself using the Coil glitch, I say why not? You're already in and out of your Inventory anyway.

    Mods

    • Helm: Solar Grenade

    • Gauntlets: Kinetic Reload

    • Chest Armor: Solar Melee

    • Leg Armor: Solar Melee

    • Titan Mark: Power/Kinetic Reload

    SIDE NOTE: Its wise to have a separate set for both PvE and PvP. With your Power Reload Mod on your mark, you can typically get of 2 rockets before Hammer Strike debuff wears off the enemy. Once you get good at keeping up your Tempered Metal buff, Kinetic reload speed will be trivial.

    Stats

    Stats, as of right now, dont really have a huge play in performance. I do prefer to have more Recovery, rather than Resistance or Mobility. The quicker you're back in combat, the better. So try and have a larger supply of Recovery if you can.

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    Further below will be the video that im sure most of us have seen, but directly explains each Stat and has amazing visual aid as well. It will be included in the Special Thanks, Section of the Guide, along with many other insightful videos. So be sure to watch them all for more info on Stats and other things!

    My personal Stats are as follows;

    3-Mobility/3-Resilience/7-Recovery

    Kinetic/Energy Weapons

    Since playing a Sunbreaker can be more of an aggressive playstyle, I tend to stick to Handcannons and SMGs, with a touch of Rocket Launchers or Swords on the power side of things. This gives me mid-long range with Explosive Payload in weapons like Sunshot or Better Devils, and keeps close quarters on lock with a Hero's or Royal – an SMG. Below are some weapons I have personally found to be good for this kind of gameplay.

    • Better Devils: 13 Rounds, Explosive Payload, Decent Reload http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/1048266744-better-devils

    • True Prophecy: 11 Rounds, Timed Payload, Slow Reload, High Impact http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/408440598-true-prophecy

    • Sunshot(Exotic Energy HC): 8 Rounds, Explosive Payload/Firefly Combo, Good Reload http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/2907129557-sunshot

    • Hero's Burden: 900 RPM, HiCal Rounds, Adaptive Frame, Threat Detector http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/2909905776-the-heros-burdenRoyal

    • Dispensation II: 900 RPM, HiCal Rounds, Adaptive Frame, Grave Robber http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/3889907763-royal-dispensation-ii
    • Antiope-D: Kinetic 600 RPM SMG, Kill Clip, Precision Frame, Longer Range http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/566976653-antiope-d

    • Escape Velocity: Kinetic 900 RPM, Lightweight Frame, HiCal Rounds, Grave Robber. <3 http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/1459443448-escape-velocity

    • Strum(Exotic Kinetic HC) High Impact, 12 Rounds, REFILLS ENERGY AMMO. http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/2907129556-sturm

    • The Old Fashioned: Adaptive Frame, 9 Rounds, Kill Clip. Works great with your quick reloads. http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/1706536806-the-old-fashioned

    • Out of Options 600 RPM Edition: Lightweight Frame, Harder Hitting SMG http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/2700862858-out-of-options

    • Older Sister II Energy HC: Adaptive Frame, AP Rounds, Ambitious Assassin http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/2693941407-older-sister-iii

    Example of a Royal Dispensation II(SMG) buffed by Hammer Strike on an HVT Vandal

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    Example of an Hero's Burden(SMG) and True Prophecy(HC) buffed by Hammer Strike on a HVT Servitor

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    Its also worth mentioning that certain Auto's do work good as well, I just find them less effective in my sort of playstyle. But you might be different. Just use what you have play around with the loot pool!

    *SIDE NOTE: I couldn’t tell you which is most effective to use, an HC or SMG after a singe Hammer Strike. But I can tell you that nothing beats watching those numbers pop up and seeing that HP Bar melt. Play around with what you have. Hammer Strikes makes nearly anything viable.

    Power Weapons

    • Wardcliff Coil(Exotic RL): Absolute in High DMG/DPS. Can 1 Shot things with Hammer Strike that normally takes multiple Coils, or up to 3 rockets. Its silly.

    http://db.destinytracker.com/d2/en/items/1508896098-the-wardcliff-coil

    Example of a Wardcliff Coil + Hammer Strike Vs 2 HVT Servitors

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    • Curtain Call: Vanguard RL, Cluster Bombs. Big Damage.

    Example of the Curtain Call + Hammer Strike Vs Taken Ultra

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    • Crownsplitter: Titan Class Specific Sword, Aggressive Frame, Tireless Blade

    • It Stared Back: Raid Sword, Whirlwind Strikes, Relentless Strikes.

      Example of a Whirlwind Blade Sword + Hammer Strike Vs HPE Mid-Boss

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    *Swords with En Garde and Whirlwind Strikes are both good. This allows you to stack these DMG Buffs on top of your Hammer Strike DMG Buff. You can typically get 3-4 swings off with an Upper-Cut style sword, and 3 with a Crownsplitters Heavy Smash.

    • The Prospector(Exotic Grenade Launcher): 8 Rounds, Very quick Fire Rate, High DMG w/ Hammer Strike

    Example of The Prospector buffed by Hammer Strike on an HVT Servitor

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    • Play of the Game: 6 Rounds, Proximity Grenades, Threat Detector

    • Erentil FR4: Highest Impact Fusion Rifle, 5 Rounds, Under Pressure

    Example of High Impact Fusion Rifle Buffed by Hammer Strike(IB FUSION)

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    • Hawthornes Field Forged Shotgun: Very Quick Fire Rate, Full Auto, Lightweight Frame, 7 Rounds

    Example of Hawthorns Shotty buffed by Hammer Strike Vs HVT Fall Captain

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    • Unification VII Shotgun: Slug Rounds, Long Range, High Impact, Full Auto. Dont sleep on this one.

    • Blue Shift: High Impact Rocket Launcher with increased Ammo reserve.

    *SIDE NOTE: The great thing about Hammer Strike is that it allows you to play around with Power Weapons. Hammer Strikes DMG buff makes nearly any shotgun good, any Grenade Launcher good(if you have the aim), but tbh, it makes anything pretty decent. Play around with weapons, but Hammer Strike makes Sunbreaker a great Viable “Leveling Up” Build as mentioned before.

    Of all the Lights, we burned the brightest”

    Getting Started

    Playing a Sunbreaker isn’t easy. There is going to be a slight learning curve and core adjustments to your gameplay in order to maximize your capabilities. Well, for most people atleast. But we will discuss all that further down in the “Secrets in Maximizing”.

    For now, lets start with the basics. I compiled a little list of things that, sure, are always good to know. But when dealing with Ally-wide buffs such as Tempered Metal, and enemy debuffs like Hammer Strike...its near essential to work on all these things, all the time. Plan ahead, always.

    1. Situational Precognition; The ability to know exactly what you are doing, and what you are about to do..at the same time, at all times. You are basically Nostradamus'ing the shit out of the game here, and its not easy to do. But keep at it.

    • This is an extension of #1. Make a Checklist in your head of each section of whatever content you are running. Have Priority Targets, Spawn Locations and Objectives in mind at all times. This will help with knowing when and where to throw Thermites as well as when and where to use Hammer Strike. You will eventually form a kind of memory to each strike, mission or event, reducing the time it takes to actually think of all this. Again, this is a MUST KNOW if you want to be as effective as possible. You never want to be in a situation where you decided to use Hammer Strike to re apply Tempered Metal, when you could have used it on a Yellow Bar/Ultra or vice versa. you never wanna use a Thermite on 2 enemies, when there's 5-6 or more just a few moments after.

    2. Stay Active; Keep moving. Use your vertical space to traverse the map, and the use cover given to you to get from Point A to Point B without drawing too much fire from enemies.

    • Aerial combat is essential to being as efficient and as effective as possible. Another reason I use Handcannons and SMGs is because the accuracy at which they can be fired in the air. You can jump around and hip fire and finish enemies off with a single melee most of the time...or you can just zoom around 1HKO'ing things and never feel out of the play with quick reloads.

    3. Ally Awareness; This is the last one, because its least important. Well, sorta. You are going to be a force to be reckoned with no matter what, but if you manage to have the awareness to toss a grenade when close to an ally, or Hammer Strike them when an Ally makes eye content and ADS. They will be even happier than you are. Sunbreaker is flat out KEY to speed running content imo. If you really want to maximize your speed run time, having this dude is a must. 2 Imo is for maximum DPS output in the shortest amount of time. This would give your team 10 seconds of increased damage.

    Down below are a few Strike boss fights where we utilize 2 Hammer Strikes. Keep in mind my teammate is my girlfriend, bless her heart. These are not pre made groups trying to train wreck content, I'll leave that up to you guys.

    (2) Sunbreakers and a Voidwalker Destroy Bracus Zahn(Arms Dealer Strike) in 30 seconds!

    (3) Sunbreakers Take on Grask(Lake of Shadows Strike Boss)

    (2) Sunbreakers and Protheon, less than a minute!

    (2) Sunbreakers Sing Songs to Savathun's Own damn Song for 3 minutes straight.

    This video imo really shows off when and where you wanna use Hammer Strike . Every single teleport should be met with a Hammer Strike.

    (2) Sunbreakers and a GG Put down on Brakion, The Genesis Mind in 1 minute!

    If our flame should one day flicker and die, should it be to set your history ablaze.”

    Secrets in Maximizing

    Maximizing your gameplay can be done in many different ways. There are a few thing small things I have learned over the course of playing a Fire Forged Sunbreaker that might be of interest to you once you get the basics down.

    • Killing Exploder Shanks and getting a double or multikill with the explosion, will result in a Team wide Tempered Metal Buff. Cabal with the tanks on their back is the same way. Keep this in mind when that Timer's getting low.

    Example of proc'ing Tempered Metal by killing Cabal Exploder

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    This was patched in Curse of Osiris

    • During the 2nd phase of the Pyramidion Strike, Protheons slams can be negated by a Towering Barricade, set up on the side of the inner circle that Protheon stands on. An entire fireteam can hide behind this and shoot him, and you are off the floor away from the “lava DoT”.

    Example of using the Tower Barricade to negate Protheons "Slam" Effect

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    • Bracus Zahn(Arms Dealer Strike Boss) can be delayed by getting near him. He will slam the ground and put a Solar DoT on the floor, much like the Shield Brother in D1. He can push you back into walls, killing you. So be mindful of your surroundings and try to only get near him when you have an open map behind you.

    You can see an Example of this in the Bracus Zahn Video Clip up above(Youtube Video)

    • Thermite Grenades can be tossed “inside” of the Savathuns Song Boss, acting similarly to a Pulse grenade. Can be quite effective with Hammer Strike active.

    You can see an example of this in my Svathuns Song Boss Kill video.

    • Use your knowledge of the content you are running to extend your Tempered Metal Buff, at times giving 80-100% uptime once mastered. Below is a video of me casually running a Lost Sector in the EDZ. Once I start the buff, it doesn't drop. You can see that its not really difficult at all to do, and plays well with the playstyle as it keeps your moving and in the air, punching things.

    Thanks And Credits

    Click down below for incredible visual aid and help understanding Stats in Destiny 2. Thanks to Fallout Plays for the amazing content.

    Fallout Plays Youtube Video on Stats

    Another amazingly informative Youtube Creator by the name of The Bugler. He has these amazing guides on every single Subclass and most the gear you'd ever wanna use. For more in depth info on Hammer Strike, Tempered Metal buff and the Sunbreaker subclass, check him out! Big Thanks to him for making it a little easier for us to understand it all.

    The Bugler's Youtube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv8KScoThRCIW1q5wEmXsXw

    Down Below are some Quick Click Videos I suggest taking a Peak at!

    Complete Breakdown of the Fire Forged Subclass is getting a makeover really soon, if not has already. There's some slight problems with numbers but its nothing that makes the class less viable. Watch it!

    Also, here's a link to my Youtube channel as well. For now, its got basically every single strike boss getting wrecked in devastating ways. Also once I have finished moving(the reason content is running slow and these other guides are taking a while is that im currently moving to another nearby city) I will get back into the grind of things. I also plan on getting Mic'd up soon aftrer that as well so expect to hear me explain all this nonsense to you personally. Thanks!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPssJmgI4F5z-sTNWqJdtQg

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    Zevvion

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    Sunbreaker is not bad, but it has three problems.

    1. It is overshadowed by a better subclass: Striker.
    2. Both its perk trees are not optimized for an optimally effective role.
    3. Siegebreaker is arguably the most synergistic of the two trees and it attempts to push a playstyle that just does not fit in top effectiveness in the game, breaking momentum.

    I play Sunbreaker whenever I do not have to play well. That is, if I am raiding with the intent of clearing it fast, I use Striker. If I am doing the Prestige Raid, I use Striker. If I do Trials, I use Sentinel or Striker. If I play for funsies, doing random public events, just hanging out in Quickplay, I use Sunbreaker. Because it is fun, it's just not good enough.

    I'll give quick examples: in the Prestige Baths, common tactic is to use 2-3 Merciless bolts and your grenade to kill the Bather. They give you 3 ammo per kill, so if you have to use more, you will not have enough ammo to one-phase the censors or if someone messes up you'll even run out of ammo to kill Bathers with. Striker grenades allow 2 Merciless bolts to kill a Bather as they take more than half its health. Sunbreaker grenades do nothing to Bathers. They take roughly 5% of their health. Additionally, their best grenade, Thermite, is neutralized as it touches the water.

    For DPS, two Pulse grenades outdamage the 50% damage buff you get from Sunbreaker. Additionally, you gain throw grenades and run to kill other things. At Pleasure Gardens, I can kill my dog without having to be there, allowing me to help a teammate who is having trouble finishing theirs. Not to mention the Skullfort combo allows you to get grenades back up. It results in massively increased damage on Calus for example, allowing a one-phase more easily.

    In PvP, two Lightning or Pulse grenades is strong. The underused and in my opinion better perk tree, increases your melee range and damage at shield break, guaranteeing the kill from longer ranges than any other class and in shorter amount of time. Super duration is also significantly increased for it. By contrast, Sunbreaker has subpar PvP grenades and its Super lasts a short amount of time.

    I mained a Titan for all of Destiny. I loved the Sunbreaker in D1. In D2, they have neutered it a bit, while simultaneously making the other classes stronger. I wish it was better than it is right now, and I don't doubt they will change it soon as the community echoes that Sunbreaker and Dawnblade are both not good enough.

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    Hestilllives19

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    Yeah, as a Destiny 1 Sunbreaker main, I don't have very nice things to say about what they did in Destiny 2 to my baby. What I will say is that stacking Sunbreakers I've been told is fantastic in Leviathan on Censors, but I've never tried it. I am very strongly opposed to the loss of Suncharge in Super. It's what defined Sunbreaker for PvP. Now that it was removed and granted to not one but both Sentinel and Striker in Super I can't bring myself to play Sunbreaker ever. I tend to play Sentinel in PvP and Striker for PvE.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    #4  Edited By Bvb_Finn

    Im not really trying to debate which Titan Subclass is best man. Im just trying to show how good Sunbreaker is, despite how its perceived by the community, lol. Im fully aware of how good a Striker is every aspect of Destiny, but theyre not best at everything.

    They might be the best in the Raid and in PvP(no doubt there, atleast for now)...but I believe they fall short in almost everything else. Sunbreaker has a fireteam wide buff, sure the movement speed is useless but that 30% reload speed is nice and quickdraw is a little-hidden perk as well. One of the most effective grenades in PvE is Thermite's, which are crazy long, and a little wider than it looks too. There's certainly a learning curve to the class, the grenade is a little weird at first but once you get it its super easy to get multikills with it. Besides like maybe 10% of the game, mostly everything will die in a few pulses either way. Thermite can do things a normal pulse cant, and a pulse can do things a Thermite cant. Lastly, Hammer Strike, despite being nerfed from D1, is still pretty dang good and quite essential for speedrunning content outside of the raid. It just helps you melt stuff, its so good. For solo play, coop, queing for strikes. Having that big damage boost every 24 seconds is amazing, and having that grenade every 24 seconds is just as handy. By the time most classes are getting 1 grenade back, a Sunbreaker has already tossed 1 and got his other. Skullfort is sooo nice though, cant argue that. It has its drawnbacks, but certainly makes an already good subclass even better.

    I have put up tons of examples of how strong Hammer Strike is, with all sorts of weapons ranging from HCs, SMGs and Grenade Launchers, and even Fusion Rifles. Its just logic that its more effective to be able to shoot something less, let alone do as frequent as a Furnace buff will let you.

    Also, Seigebreaker can be good but lets say you have a Boss with Hammer Strike active on it...it will actually take more damage from 6 Hammers from a Fire Forged Subreaker, rather than the 10 Hammers from a Seigenbreaker. So even when looked at on paper, Seigebreaker does look and sound like it would be the stronger super. But its actually not, atleast not by much if any. Pyres and Vulcan in tandem with Hammer Strike will add that much extra damage.

    I have played Striker for around 20k kills, and Sunbreaker for nearing 50k now. I have really put it quite some time with Striker, and quite a bit of time into figuring out the optimal build and subclass for doing strikes, and doing them as fast as possible and out of all the classes and subclasses, Sunbreaker is basically it. I run with my fiance most the time, so I have tested 2 Strikers with 4 pulses on strike bosses quite a bit and 2 Sunbreakers win every time. Every single one of my fastest boss kills come from us being 2 Sunbreakers, but, its possible that we just suck with Strikers, but I dont see that being the case this time hahaha

    I say that because im not not exactly ill-informed either. I played all three years of D1, as a Titan Main as well. And like many, had heard of the changes and quickly deemed Strikers better, right out of the gate. But I can safely say that for the kind of Destiny I love to play, Sunbreaker is still it. Hands down. Now, im not saying AT ALL that Sunbreaker at the best at everything in the game. No class is best at everything in the game, thats just the balance of it all. Striker just cant help a team output damage, therefore, in that aspect, in the art of speedrunning, aggressive AF... in your face style gameplay...its Sunbreaker. Atleast for me. And I made the guide in the hopes that it might help a few titans make the jump and give it a solid try this time around.

    So like I said, im not trying to debate which subclass is best overall or anything. Im just more saying, hey...check what this subclass can do....why the hell aint you doing it too? Ya know?

    Good chat still and even though im not sure you actually looked at the guide...lol, I appreciate the look-see-sorta thing.

    On a side note, Sunbreakers are pretty lacking in PvP, most certainly. No doubt. If im playing in the crucible, im on Sentinal, lol.

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    cikame

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    Destiny 2 is deep enough to warrant making guides?

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    Hestilllives19

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    @cikame: There are a lot of things Guides have been made for Destiny 2 about. Heck I made one that is pretty extensive for the Leviathan Raid. A lot of Destiny 2's systems are pretty deep and some players find them hard to understand. Bungie also rarely does any job of explaining them. I know this was an attempt at a cheeky reply to the OP, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with this sort of stuff, even if this guide goes into far more detail than necessary, I don't think I have any room to talk haha.

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    rorie

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    @bvb_finn: nice guide! I need to get back into D2. I unlocked the Sunbreaker but flipped back over to the tanky spec pretty much immediately.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    Destiny isnt deep, but sadly, people cant just see the potential in things anymore, they usually need to be told or they atleast need to see how fruitful it is before spending time investing in said build.

    With that said, its not a real build guide as its more of an introduction into the class with a guide into the deeper mechanics of it. I had a good time making it, gathering clips with my fiance running bunches of strikes and sitting at work writing it up. I have done this sort of thing for a lot of games, and I still enjoy doing it now.

    And thanks @rorie, its good to see some appreciation instead of doubt.

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    Zevvion

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    @bvb_finn: I understand that you like playing Sunbreaker over the other subclasses and I am with you on that. But it isn't better than any other subclass at anything. That is the problem.

    Thermite Grenades feel really nice. They cover a large amount of ground to murder trash mobs. But they are subpar grenades. They deal 5736 damage total, while Pulse Grenades deal 9983 damage by default. Picking Earthshaker tree, which everyone does, nets you an extra grenade and also increase its duration to deal 13.610 damage. That is 2.4 times as much damage and you have an additional charge to boot.

    Hallowfire Heart is honestly one of the worst Exotics for Titans. You get your grenade back faster, which turns out to only be 40% faster while you're forced to not use your Super, which is quite crippling. By comparison, Skullfort gives you your grenades back up to 2000% faster if there are enough trash mobs around, reliably getting it back 100% faster in most situations, while not preventing you from using your Super and it also gives you health regen.

    Sunstrike gives 50% damage boost for 5 seconds, resulting in 1 to 2 rockets from Sins of the Past that allow the damage boost which is very nice, but is less damage than a single Pulse Grenade which you have to spare with Striker.

    I am 100% with you that Sunbreaker is the more fun class. But it is less good at everything. The reason why Sunbreakers are good in the Baths on censors is because Striker can't hit them with its Super. Everywhere else, Striker outdamages Sunbreaker by quite a large amount. Theoretically Sunstrike should be good if all 5 other players are also shooting at the target you just melted, but that doesn't happen anywhere. On dogs, you kill your dog solo. On Calus, Sunstrike doesn't proc since you have to be on the plate. You could use it on certain Strike bosses, but at that point you have to be in a fireteam for that to work.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    #11  Edited By Bvb_Finn

    They increase team damage, as I said. They are essential to running most content quickly. No other class will give you what they can in that aspect. Its not a debate, its an actual fact, lol. Titan 50%, Warlock 30%, Hunter 35%.

    I feel like I explained it rather well the first time, so I wont bother doing it all over again(not to mention you know, the guide and intro). As I said, I made this to bring attention to the Sunbreaker, not debate people about which subclass is best at certain aspects of the game.

    I will touch on a few things you didnt mention the first time around though. First off, there's literally nothing in the game besides a Strike Boss, Heroic PE Boss, or a Raid Boss, that needs more damage output than what you can do with Hammer Strike. I still get 2-3 supers if I wanted to in a single strike, but its much more efficient to hold it and use your Grenades and Melee every 24 seconds. A teamwide Reload Speed/Handling Buff with near 100% upkeep for yourself, and over 50% upkeep for your team(in combat) is hard to say "meh" about. Thats excluding the fact you can heighten the damage output if your entire team, or any ally on the map, for 5 seconds, every 20 seconds. But I digress, I feel like I have said this stuff before, lol

    Its also highly possible that the next Raid boss can be Hammer Struck, making Sunbreaker more pleasant to have around instead of, say a Striker. Thats just speculation, so i'll leave it at that. But In terms of Raid though, as I mentioned, its the least played content in Destiny 1 and 2, so I dont make guides based fully on that aspect, if at all really. This one is certainly not based on Raid content, at all.

    Anyway, I went and tested a few things last night because our conversation, and will be updating the guide with some visual references to damage output, even against other classes, not just subclasses. I really wish Destiny had a "test dummy" to do these sorta things on because its just silly how long it takes to do this on strike bosses and even PE Bosses. I would say a week or so before I have it updated, but I will let the thread know when I do get it up. I think some people will be quite surprised. For instance, Hammer Strike + Hammer of Sol actually does a surprisingly large amount of damage. Much more than people seem to think, thats for sure.

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    Zevvion

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    @bvb_finn said:

    As I said, I made this to bring attention to the Sunbreaker, not debate people about which subclass is best at certain aspects of the game.

    I am not addressing the part of this post which is your opinion, in fact I am aligning with you on that. But you are also making statements that are inaccurate. I won't give you a debate on your opinion, I am just stating facts that are contrary to some of the claims you make.

    Sunbreaker is not essential for running content quickly. Striker deals more damage. That is a fact since we can check numbers. PvE endgame content currently consists of (Prestige) Nightfall Strikes and (Prestige) Raid.

    The current highest DPS weapon is Cluster Bomb rockets. Earthshaker groundslam and the aftershock deal more damage than Cluster Bomb rocket launchers do. Roughly 1.9 times as much. In order for a 50% damage buff to outdamage that, you need 3 Guardians to fire Cluster Bomb rockets in that 5 second span to equal or outdamage a single Guardian. Not to mention that consumes Power Ammo for all involved and the two additional Guardians would be doing their own damage in addition to a Striker otherwise. Then there is the double Pulse Grenades which deal 2.4 times as much damage as the Thermite Grenade and you get two of them. And they don't recharge once every 24 seconds like Hallowfire Heart does, they can recharge in as little as 1 second, though more realistically in 10-15 seconds.

    So in both Raids and Strikes, math shows us Striker outdamages Sunbreaker unless you get more than 3 people to focus fire after Sunstrike procs, which isn't possible anywhere but in the Raid and isn't a valid strategy in that Raid. I'm not disagreeing with your opinion here, this is extensive community testing with hard data that disproves Sunbreaker outdamages a Striker.

    What opinion you have, I agree with. The reload buff is certainly very nice, though for boss DPS Rally Barricade outperforms it which is available to all subclasses. And I agree that future content might allow more use out of Sunbreakers than we currently have and it may outperform Strikers there.

    I will say though, that I prefer they just buff the subclass instead of building content around it. When you look at raw data, both Sunbreaker and Dawnblade are just gimped in terms of effectiveness. Dawnblade is even worse as its perks rely on aerial combat which suffers a huge accuracy penalty making all those skills an order of magnitude worse than they sound on paper (and they don't even sound that good to begin with).

    What I think they should do for Sunbreaker is allow Sunstrike to proc in the Super. Destiny 1 style Suncharge, except it applies the burn from Sunstrike without a cooldown. Then, they should combine Battle-Forge and Vulcan's Rain into a single perk. When you look at Striker's Terminal Velocity, it deals increased damage the longer it is in the air and leaves a damage-dealing field in its wake. This is a very similar thing for Sunbreaker, except that one perk is split into two separate perks? Why? All other classes have so much more depth to a single node than Sunbreaker does. They should just combine these two and give it a unique fourth perk.

    I also have a feeling they will address Sunbreakers in the near future, since the community is getting upset it isn't great. Populair streamers and YouTubers have recently started to ask for changes to it. Such as Datto.

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    Hestilllives19

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    #13  Edited By Hestilllives19

    @bvb_finn: Hey, I like the guide, and I think it's cool that you did it. I do want to mention that Hammer Strike is literally just Destiny 2's version of Melting Point (only with a Hammer Slap rather than a punch, which I agree is way cooler looking) so I know a lot of us Destiny vets are already extremely familiar with both it's benefits and usefulness, especially with the removal of Weapons of Light (and it's replacement by Warlocks Empowering Rifts) and the drastic reduction in the usefulness of Shadowshot Anchors in Destiny 2 (since they now do not apply to their buff to Power Ammo damage). The biggest problem Hammer Strike has is the same issue Melting Point always had, which is when to utilize it. There is a reason that even though Melting Point had the highest team buff in Destiny, it was by far the least used in the game, and it's because it so much harder to utilize well. You have to have extreme team coordination and the conditions of the situation have to be pretty specific for it to work well. I can however see if having a lot of utility if we do have another Raid Boss in the future such as Aksis, who is DPS based, takes damage from anywhere, and to whom everyone in the room knows to shoot at during guaranteed times. I mean, honestly, Aksis Phase II Challenge Mode, in Destiny 2, Hammer Strike would shine like no other perk, you'd probably want to Sunbreakers at least (I know a lot of top tier teams were doing just this, Melting Point + Weapons of Light + Thermite since they hit multiple legs and it just wrecked Aksis). The biggest problem is there is no real valid place for the Sunbreaker at this time. But don't take my word for it, here is the thoughts on it from one of the top PvE players in Destiny. Keep in mind he is one of the biggest proponents and users of Melting Point in Destiny 1. So it's very telling that he doesn't even mention Hammer Strike.

    Loading Video...

    Edit: Hahaha, Zev's post wasn't up when I wrote this, how funny.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    Thanks, and yeah...I dont really think an intro or guide is much use to a vet at this point ahahahah. As mentioned, I just made it mostly as awareness. Because right now, like you and even Datto says, they are looked at kinda mediocre but I feel like they are pretty essential to as I said, speed running content such as strikes. I guess maybe not essential because lets face it, 3 players using almost any class can probably speed run stuff, but to get the quickest time, 2 sunbreakers give 10 seconds of 50% damage. Team that up with a Nighthawk GG, or even a Striker with 2 Pulses, and you got yourself some serious damage going on. Basically, everyone gets their grenades and supers buffed 50% for 10 seconds, You can usually get off a few rockets within a group as well if you an ally with a quick super, like CN GG. But a Striker will have his entire super buffed, and both pulses...nearly the entire time if not the entire time. Its pretty cool.

    2 Sunbreakers can also use barriers in tandem with each others Hammer Strikes, getting off nearly entire reserves of rockets in the 5 seconds given to do so. Basically, every 2 rockets gets a "free rocket" in damage...with Hammer Strike active, so if you get off 5 rockets, thats an additional 2.5 "free rocket damage" added on. Its a crap ton of damage in such a short amount of time. Again, pretty cool. You can really push the game, and its fun to see how quick you can take down these phase bosses.

    Now I know normal strikes are looked at as mid game content but thats still alot of HP to burn through on those bosses. As a Sunbreaker you can have a Hammer Strike ready for each of these phases. It halves the times of these phases and sometimes, skipping them, as we have seen in things like Nightfalls with certain elemental burn buffs active but its still possible with normal strikes. You can take out Bracus in Arms dealer before he even starts down the ramps. Its fun as crap. But I guess I come from an older generation, lol. I was raised on Ragnarok Online and a lot of those miserable F2P MMORPGs from the past. We would just run dungeons as fast as possible, trying to beat our time on either the boss, or the entire dungeon itself. We could just party up and figure out the fastest possible ways of doing damage, and then try and just stomp the boss in. We always felt like there was something else we could do to help, and with each new expansion...we'd get new toys to play around with old content too. I took that into Destiny and along for Destiny 2. Its still really fun, and I get to do it with my fiance now...so thats even better. Im pretty simple to keep happy with these games. Even in BL2 I would have much rather spent time in OP4-6 with slightly weaker builds but having way more fun doing it. I guess its similar here.

    Anyway, I dont want to come off as im trying to prove sunbreaker is the best subclass or something. I just have put a lot of time into this subclass, and have kinda pushed it to its limits, atleast in terms of a premade group of 2 and not 3. We have doubled up on a lot of strikes, with a lot of different classes and subclasses and Sunbreaker atleast for now is still the quickest for us. I feel like the class really supports the group in ways other cant. Even in solo play, if you get que'd up with lesser skilled, or lesser geared players...its pretty dang nice to have Hammer Strike active so often. Hard not to defend an opinion you feel pretty strongly for I guess, considering I have qued up for what feels like thousands of strikes now, lol. Maybe I need to make a little disclaimer at the beginning of the intent this guide has. I assumed a lot of it was a "it goes without saying" type thing, but things have changed a lot since I last did a guide. I had started work on a Dawnblade, and was going to work on a Gunslinger as well mostly because I was asked too, but its fun...so I figure why not. Dawnblade is a little gimmicky, and if they had removed the cooldown on their Icurs Dash I would be all over that class. Or atleast let us dash twice, like Garrison. And I feel like the in-super dash shouldnt take energy, or as much as it does. But Dawnblade, upper tree with Nez's Sin is pretty dang fun when just roaming about, or doing strikes even. You can ge your grenade back in 5 mid air kills. I feel like Dawnblades Upper tree is why Grenade Launchers were made as well, hahaha. With Nezs Sin, and a 6 round GL, and the enemies around, you can get 2 nades in like a single clip. Its pretty wild. I found that out in a crazy fight with Grask(Lake of Shadows). I was getting a full grenade back in like 2 shots with my Berengers Memory?

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    Zevvion

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    @bvb_finn: Sunbreakers are not bad my man. I love using them. I wasn't trying to argue this hard. I'm just passionate about the game and have checked all the community testing numbers and they don't work out in Sunbreaker's favor. That is all I wanted to say really.

    I am with you that it is a fun class with cool utility. I do hope they will buff it soon though.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    Bumpdate

    The Bugler got a newly updated subclass breakdown out so I updated that part of the guide, as well as added a 1 minute Brakion kill. We completely skipped 3 phases, got lucky and qued up with a CN GG. Brutally fun stuff.

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    madpierrot

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    #17  Edited By madpierrot

    Man I was hoping for so much from the subclasses in Destiny 2. The reason I stopped playing it is because of just how limited and well, frankly for me, boring the subclass options are. The fact that you got less options and customization in 2 than you did in 1 nearly made me not buy the game. Still had a lot of fun with it, but felt like it could of been so much more. Being stuck into 1 of 2 premade builds for each subclass is actually my biggest complaint with the game. More than PvP, more than endgame content, more than exotics and even tokens.

    Reading your post was cool and does get me fired up to play, but it's just so... lazy by Bungiee? Them saying this is how you have to play the subclass, if you don't like the perks than well too bad is by far what I want to see fixed most in this game. I hope dlc or updates in the future add either ways to chose how you want to play the subclass or at least more options.

    I am such the stereotypical Destiny fan. Here I am just complaining about the game, yet I've put in over 60 hours, beat the raid multiple times, have two maxed out classes, and enjoyed reading your post while making me excited to try it out. This game.

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    pyrodactyl

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    #18  Edited By pyrodactyl

    Current sunbreaker is one of the many clues pointing to the fact that Bungie is pretty bad at designing/balancing video games most of the time. Oh, they do have things they're great at (game feel) and they can have strokes of genius but for everyone of those we get 3 terrible decisions that make the game worse. Sunbreaker doesn't have any unique strengths that are user friendly. But then again, I think subclasses are balanced horribly in Destiny 2. They were intentionally handicapped for the sake of PvP, the part of the game seemingly designed to be the opposite of fun. Man Destiny 1 PvP was so fun for most of its run time. Why nerf everything just to favor what is now such a sad, hollow part of the game.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    I dont try and get hung up on things that could have been anymore, I just have fun with what I got. Sunbreaker's unique strengths are explained in the guide(as few as they are, they are pretty powerful for many reasons), but I agree that theyre not really user-friendly. A new player just wont be useful as a Sunbreaker. Appreciate the time and looks either way @pyrodactyl, thanks!

    @madpierrot Complain away man. I mean, when we like something as much as Destiny, it sucks to see it go down a path of full resistance by the community. For me personally, I grew up on the F2P MMO boom that happened right before WoW so Destiny, even still with it all its problems, plays like a dream for me. Playing strikes with my fiance, making weaker players feel stronger is such a fun thing to do. Like, seeing or hearing someone beat a boss in 30seconds to a minute in this game is hilarious. They just dont know its possible. I have made quite a few friends this way, and hope to make a bunch more. If you ever get back into it, and wanna run some strikes or whatever, hmu, add me, whatever you want. Im always open to kick some boss butt, as fast as guardianly possible. Lol

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    Zevvion

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    They were intentionally handicapped for the sake of PvP, the part of the game seemingly designed to be the opposite of fun.

    I don't think this is true, because while Sunbreaker has ideal nodes broken up between the two trees and other subclasses do as well, Devour Warlock makes no compromises. No one would swap anything in that tree if they got to build it themselves.

    I honestly think they just don't know how people want to play with these subclasses or what works well together. It is a more logical conclusion to take from this when you look at Dawnblade for instance. That entire subclass is build around intentionally slow-float aerial combat. That just doesn't work.

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    sgtsphynx

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    #21 sgtsphynx  Moderator

    So you would recommend the Fire Forged over the Siege Breaker? I've been playing as a Siege Breaker and haven't really messed with the Fire Forged, so would it take some adjustments to go the Fire Forged route?

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    Bvb_Finn

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    So you would recommend the Fire Forged over the Siege Breaker? I've been playing as a Siege Breaker and haven't really messed with the Fire Forged, so would it take some adjustments to go the Fire Forged route?

    I absolutely do recommend it.

    It does take a few adjustments though. Mostly, you dont have any Health on Kill function anymore with Sol Invictus, which if you learned to love...like me, its hard to adjust away from that.

    With that said, your playstyle really determines which tree you want to us. Fire Forged is a more active, aggressive playstyle ...whereas Seige is more about sitting in a spot for 10 seconds at a time, refilling your abilities in order to move again type thing. I, personally, love to be mobile and as aggressive as I can. And Fire Forged enriches that type of gunplay quite effectively with giving you first, the most DPS enhancing buff in the game, every 24 seconds and second buff...a fireteam wide buff that tightens how the game plays. You get quickdraw on your weapons and get to reload them 30% faster...its hard not to like that. There's a learning curve to consistantly granting the buff to your allies, but its something you learn over time rather easily. I find that if you watch the radar a lot, or play PvP at times, its not much different.

    I place a FireForged Sunbreaker into the Hybrid DPS Support class. They really are only as effective as the player, moreso than most other classes. Knowing when and where to use abilities is pretty key in how efficient you are a support character as well. Its just like being a healer or buffer in other MMO's, in that knowing when and where enemies are going to strike, will enhance how effective you are at your job.

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    pyrodactyl

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    @zevvion said:
    @pyrodactyl said:

    They were intentionally handicapped for the sake of PvP, the part of the game seemingly designed to be the opposite of fun.

    I don't think this is true, because while Sunbreaker has ideal nodes broken up between the two trees and other subclasses do as well, Devour Warlock makes no compromises. No one would swap anything in that tree if they got to build it themselves.

    I honestly think they just don't know how people want to play with these subclasses or what works well together. It is a more logical conclusion to take from this when you look at Dawnblade for instance. That entire subclass is build around intentionally slow-float aerial combat. That just doesn't work.

    The amount of hammers and fire swords you can throw was clearly kept low because of PvP. Other things that were made less fun because of PvP include:

    • Throwable shields
    • Six shooter spec for gunslingers
    • Most of the hunter melee abilities
    • Arial combat (so good players couldn't completely dominate by using vertical space in PvP)
    • Dodge roll and titan wall

    I'm probably forgetting half of them but that gives you a basic idea of what they had to kneecap just to balance a game mode they made miserable in the transition from Destiny 1 to Destiny 2.

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    Zevvion

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    @pyrodactyl: They did make concessions for PvP, but I don't think the perk assignment is one of those. I think they actually don't know how to create good builds. How else do you explain Devour-build and Trapper-build being optimal? Not including the fact that Nightstalker's Super is bad of course, but the actual assignment of the skills is perfect for PvP, same with Devour.

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    Hestilllives19

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    #26  Edited By Hestilllives19

    @zevvion: Nightstalker? Perfect... in any way? I don't even know how to respond to that. Nightstalker is so beyond broken on both sides of it's Perk Tree's, it's easily the biggest offender of Bungie not having a clue in how to balance a Subclass at all. So you have two Perk Tree's that I will list below. Please tell me how either of these make any sense together.

    Way of the Trapper

    • Snare Bomb - Sticks to surfaces and detonates when enemies are near it slowing and disorienting enemeis.
    • Keen Scout - Sprint/Sneak faster, enhanced Tracker, tethered enemies are marked.
    • Vanishing Step - Dodging makes you vanish.
    • Deadfall - Void Anchors have increased range and last longer, Anchors become Traps and wait for Prey.

    Way of the Pathfinder

    • Vanish in Smoke - Smoke Bombs make you and all allies invisible.
    • Lockdown - Grenade and Smoke effects last twice as long.
    • Heart of the Pack - Killing Tethered enemies creates Orbs of Light, and increases Mobility/Recovery/Resiliance for you and allies.
    • Mobius Quiver - Fire Multiple Shadowshot, and Shadowshot does extra damage to tethered enemies.

    Now, is Way of the Trapper usable in PvP, I guess, but it isn't even how people played Nightstalker in PvP in Destiny 1, and it combines the worse version of it's Super in PvP with a useful Dodge Ability, Keen Scout which is very good, and the better of the two Smoke Bombs for PvP. But it lacks any kind of synergy, its just a few usable PvP perks thrown together, that are honestly better on both PvP and PvE since Way of the Pathfinder is just a dumpster fire for either. Both are undeniably worse than if those same exact perks were combined in a more logical manner. If Bungie had actually taken the time to look at how players played Nightstalker in Destiny, this is how both of these tree's would have been organized.

    PvP

    • Snare Bomb
    • Lockdown
    • Vanishing Step
    • Mobius Quiver

    PvE

    • Vanish in Smoke
    • Keen Scout
    • Heart of the Pack
    • Deadfall

    In retrospect though in regards to D2, if we were looking for powerful PvP and PvE builds you would swap Lockdown and Keen Scout since we have found out that Lockdown actually doubles the length of time a Voidwall Grenade is active, effectively making it the most powerful Grenade in Destiny 2 right now. It also stands to reason that Grenades are useless in PvP, and Keen Scouts Tracking very much isn't, so having that in PvP would be very useful since a Wombo Combo is no longer a thing. Long story short, if Mobius Quiver and Deadfall had been switched, I would agree that both Nightstalker Perk Trees are good, but by their very design, perks like Deadfall and Heart of the Pack work together to make Shadowshot actually work in PvP, and Vanish in Smoke is much more useful in PvE. Hitting Multiple people with a Super is very much a PvP thing as well as a trap disorienting Grenade. Lockdown would have great synergy with Snare if Grenades actually had bite like they did in D1, and Keen Scout is a useful perk in either PvP or PvE (but probably moreso in PvP). It's just sad that they got Nightstalker so wrong, especially because Heart of the Pack and Deadfall are the combination of perks that defined Nightstalker PvE in Destiny 1 (Black Hole, Predator, and Light of the Pack).

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    Zevvion

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    #27  Edited By Zevvion

    @bvb_finn: With the latest patch, Sunbreakers received a significant buff. I am so happy right now, their Super feels great. I haven't even tested Siegebreaker, but apparently you'll regenerate health when moving through a Sunspot? That might just make that tree viable, though still gimmicky.

    @hestilllives19: There isn't a single perk you would swap for PvP from the other tree. The only one people used in D1 was Lockdown, but these are different trees in a different game. It's not like you can just add Lockdown to the other tree. You'd have to swap it for something, and there is nothing you would want to trade in for Lockdown. Snare Bomb, Keen Scout and Vanishing Step are all significantly better than Lockdown in D2 PvP. I have no idea why you think Moebius Quiver is a PvP perk. It very much is not. It tethers no one, doesn't kill on hit and leaves you out to be killed. It wasn't good in D1 either even though it killed on hit. Everyone and their mom used Black Hole. On the flip side, in PvE arrows stack damage on a single target and you can actually kill adds instead of just tethering them which is what you want.

    Nightstalker is one of the strongest classes in PvP while they have arguably one of the worst Supers in the game for it. That is how good their neutral game is.

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    Hestilllives19

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    @zevvion: In it's current form, mostly due to the moronic idea by Bungie that Shadowshot shouldn't kill on hit, you know, like every single other Super in Destiny 2... You are correct that Mobius Quiver is trash, in every case. That is the problem with it, not the perk in PvP. I also know several people who ran Triple Tether in PvP, mostly during Pubs. There is no doubt it's a terrible Super for PvP, but if Shadowshot could 1 hit kill, like it should, Mobius Quiver turns it into a similar Super to Golden Gun for PvP which is fine. One that is both Harder to use and could potentially have the usefulness of killing teammates very close to the killed enemy. Mobius Quiver is absolute trash in PvE, and should in no circumstance be used for any reason. It just has zero range, therefor no Ads get Tethered. Now that Anchors Suppress on hit again (or at least they are suppose to), it should be fine to Suppress Supers. I've always thought that Anchors themselves should also attach rather quickly to players in PvP on Tether, as in within 0.25s, rather than the 2s they take now which is enough time for the player to easily kill you with their Super, then be Tethered.

    So I guess if you want the game to stay completely broken for Nightstalker, Way of the Trapper is adequate for PvP, but it is by no means how it should work. Those perks also matched also mean Nightstalker, a primarily PvE based class, will continue to be an absolute dumpster fire in PvE since it's raped of the perks that make a PvE build viable. For PvE right now you are also stuck using Trapper, for the simple fact that only Deadfall even Tethers enough Ads to make any sort of use of it's Super. I would much rather have a strong PvE Nightstalker than a not horrible PvP Nightstalker, which is where Nightstalker is now. Gunslinger is so much more viable for PvP, especially now with the 6 Shot fix, the 2 Subclasses aren't even comparable. I will probably only play Gunslinger in PvP right now. Only Sentinel can really compete.

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    Zevvion

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    @hestilllives19: I guess we will have to disagree. I have no idea who you've been playing against, but it's pretty clear Nightstalker is top-tier in Crucible at the moment. Pretty much all the streamers that I watch (Ms5000watts, TrueVanguard, Krafty) either play them themselves all the time or agree it's crazy good. Apart from the Super being bad, I haven't seen anyone say it's 'broken'. Actually, I have, but not in the way you are describing it.

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    Bvb_Finn

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    #30  Edited By Bvb_Finn

    Been a minute since I have gotten to take a look here since im struggle to move all my stuff to a new house, but I got to p;lay some last night and hotdamn!

    Although im dissapointed with the expansion as a whole, some of the new weapons are so good. I got a new RL last night, the Classical 42. What a beast. I also got the Vex Themed SMG...love it. Anwyay, I updated a little of the guide, but I havent had a chance to full update it yet. I also added a video of my and my fiance killing Protheon in under a minute, almost a phase 1 kill too. You can get off your entire RL reserve with the increased Hammer Strike Timer. Its silly lol

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