Can we clarify the "ten year plan" thing?

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Avatar image for bwheeeler
#1 Edited by bwheeeler (919 posts) -

I've seen a lot of people talking about how Destiny will last for ten years, but that's really misleading. The documents released in 2012 as part of Activision's lawsuit against West and Zampella outlined a plan for four games, one every two years, with DLC expansions in between. This isn't a WoW-style ten years, it's a standard shooter franchise ten years. You'll be playing Destiny 4 in 2020, with this game being a distant, probably-still-confounding memory.

EDIT: Since apparently people aren't reading the part where I explained what the plan is, and instead are guessing at what this mysterious plan that was outlined in detail might entail, let me put it in Madden GIFs.

No Caption Provided
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For whatever reason, you can't write
For whatever reason, you can't write "DLC" in the #maddenGIFERATOR, or "D LC", or "D L C", or "DL C", but you can put "D.L.C.".
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No Caption Provided

Here's the link to the whole thing.

Avatar image for nodima
#2 Edited by Nodima (2591 posts) -

What I imagine they're intending is that your character(s) persists across games and platforms for ten years.

Avatar image for lukeweizer
#3 Posted by Lukeweizer (3303 posts) -

Whatever the plan is, it'll cost you money.

Avatar image for thwip
#4 Posted by Thwip (38 posts) -

I never knew that anyone interpreted the 10 year thing that way until this morning when I grouped up with a random player who said they would never release sequels just expansions, which is why he bought the expansion pass. And I was like "Okay".

Avatar image for spraynardtatum
#5 Posted by spraynardtatum (4384 posts) -

Yeah, I have no clue. Destiny isn't going to last anyone 10 years.

This '10 year plan' quote was deceiving. I probably won't be buying Destiny 2 in two years if this game is representative of what this series is supposed to be.

It's a skeleton of a game. It's fun but hollow.

Avatar image for justin258
#6 Posted by Justin258 (15618 posts) -

It is a little confusing. Also, initial responses on these forums make it sound like this game doesn't have the legs to stick around for ten years.

Avatar image for pie
#7 Edited by Pie (7363 posts) -

It will be strange because presumably in 8 years when Destiny 4 comes out all the other Destiny games will be pretty much unplayable because no one will be playing them anymore

Avatar image for rowr
#8 Posted by Rowr (5861 posts) -

@thwip said:

I never knew that anyone interpreted the 10 year thing that way until this morning when I grouped up with a random player who said they would never release sequels just expansions, which is why he bought the expansion pass. And I was like "Okay".

It makes sense after they have spent so much money building a game with rock solid mechanics and framework but lacking content. I'm thinking of it like the sims or diablo 3.

It's a bit of a gamble, if people lose interest (which it sounds like some have already after a few days) well it all unravels.

I'm curious to know more about the competitive multiplayer and how robust it is, because that can help to keep interest up between content and I would expect it to be top notch as Bungie has delivered in the past with halo. Even if people put it down they can tune back in for the new content (as i'm doing with diablo 3 right now for example). I expect this game to be two or three times the size in the next year or two if the do it right.

If only someone would write a goddam fucking review for me to read already, jesus fuck.

Avatar image for corvak
#9 Edited by Corvak (1967 posts) -

I think its like an MMO, so you'll continually receive level cap increases for at least ten years. WoW has been around ten years, but the stuff in the initial box only lasted for one.

Honestly, if they must go the Activison/CoD route, i'd rather have some persistence and just buy expansions instead of the same game every year.

Avatar image for hermes
#10 Posted by hermes (2597 posts) -

It could mean that Activision has a contract with Bungie to release new destiny games for the next 10 years, that they have DLC and sequel plans to last for the next decade, or that they took the commitment of not shutting down the servers until September 2024...

I am guessing the answer will depend of who you ask it to, or when, or how well the game makes...

Avatar image for fredchuckdave
#11 Edited by Fredchuckdave (10824 posts) -

I assume both the 10 year plan and the 500 bajillion dollars are just future projections; this game might have cost a lot but it didn't cost that much. Destiny 2 is probably going to be a damn fine game, for now we have a really impressive piece of tech and framework to play around in and get bored with in fairly short order.

Avatar image for corevi
#12 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -

The 10 year plan is a new game every 2 years and 4 mini-expansions per game.

I imagine characters will persist throughout the series and there will probably be some way of amalgamating the content all into one hub instead of having to switch between 4-5 different games.

Avatar image for crithon
#13 Posted by crithon (3979 posts) -

it's total marketing speak. I could imagine maybe maybe 8 years of successful sequels being released every 2 to 3 years.

but really activision has a way of rubbing anyone the wrong way, really how long till they break up with Activision has to be shorter then the 10 year plan.

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
#14 Edited by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

Documents came out in the IW lawsuit with activision that laid the whole thing out. 3 or 4 games (I don't remember exactly) out every 2 years with DLC in the off years. Yes that's 3 or 4 $60 games + DLC.

Avatar image for rowr
#15 Posted by Rowr (5861 posts) -

I assume both the 10 year plan and the 500 bajillion dollars are just future projections; this game might have cost a lot but it didn't cost that much.

Well since bajillion is a made up number you are surely right.

But I did hear this game cost somewhere around 550 million to make, which I think is the highest of all time above GTA 5?

I don't understand are you saying that's inacurate?

Avatar image for phantomzxro
#16 Posted by phantomzxro (1613 posts) -

i toke it as Activision invested heavily in destiny and it's a series that will be around for some time. I also toke it as they will support each game with add-on content.

Avatar image for inevpatoria
#17 Posted by inevpatoria (7428 posts) -

Whatever the plan is, it'll cost you money.

TELL IT BOI

Avatar image for spraynardtatum
#18 Edited by spraynardtatum (4384 posts) -
Avatar image for monkeyking1969
#19 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7512 posts) -

Destiny has sold well for the first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

Avatar image for corevi
#20 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -
@monkeyking1969 said:

Destiny has sold well for teh first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

They just need better mission design, that's it. The universe is already set up, however poorly they might have done so.

Avatar image for csl316
#21 Edited by csl316 (14953 posts) -

Screw ten years, I'm just wondering what the first year expansions are like. New environments? Or slightly tweaked combat encounters on existing maps?

Avatar image for vonocourt
#22 Posted by Vonocourt (2196 posts) -

Destiny has sold well for teh first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

Game isn't even a week old and the unannounced sequel that we expected a 2016 release is now getting talk about needing a year-long delay. This is crazy you know right?

Avatar image for themanwithnoplan
#23 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (7830 posts) -

Yeah, I always assumed they meant the franchise, rather than this single, first game.

Avatar image for monkeyking1969
#24 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7512 posts) -

@corruptedevil said:
@monkeyking1969 said:

Destiny has sold well for the first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

They just need better mission design, that's it. The universe is already set up, however poorly they might have done so.

Well, I'd like a narrative that has characters showing growth as they make a journey (physical journey, psychological journey, or metaphysical journey - Bungies choice on which) or what is called a story; I'd like dialogue choices when talking to NPCs creates mission choices that matter at the ending of teh next chapter; and I'd like switching from one area to another to not take 60 seconds of watching my space ship float above earth.

So, I don't think they have anything near to what needs to be set up set up yet, not by a long shot. They have about 2x the job ahead of them that Bioware had when going from ME 1 to ME 2. And, they have three years at most to do it.


Remember last year, remember the news, of Destiny design director Joseph Staten leaving Bungie after 15 years. Maybe, you remember Joshua Rubin, who wrote the script/story left last month for Telltail. Or maybe you recall, Frank O'Conner left in 2008 and many of the people who made Halo were gone already.

Yeah, so I think they have a ton of work ahead of them.

Avatar image for devil240z
#25 Posted by Devil240Z (5704 posts) -

I kind of hope the next game is a prequel.

Avatar image for lukeweizer
#26 Posted by Lukeweizer (3303 posts) -

@lukeweizer said:

Whatever the plan is, it'll cost you money.

TELL IT BOI

WE'RE GONNA GET FUCKED, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIII!

Avatar image for corevi
#27 Posted by Corevi (6796 posts) -

@corruptedevil said:
@monkeyking1969 said:

Destiny has sold well for the first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

They just need better mission design, that's it. The universe is already set up, however poorly they might have done so.

I'd like dialogue choices when talking to NPCs creates mission choices that matter at the ending of teh next chapter

Why would you possibly expect that?

Avatar image for bollard
#28 Posted by Bollard (8151 posts) -

Given how much this game is structured like an MMO, is it too much to expect the next Destiny game to have level 20-40 content that picks right up from where you left off in the first game? I mean the level range will probably shift, I imagine the DLC will increase the cap and I would really appreciate it if they followed the MMO rule of adding more content for free to keep your player base interested, but I don't think its too illogical for them to take this approach.

I still have yet to start Destiny, but if I were them that's what I'd do.

Avatar image for mike
#29 Edited by Mike (17990 posts) -

@bollard said:

Given how much this game is structured like an MMO, is it too much to expect the next Destiny game to have level 20-40 content that picks right up from where you left off in the first game? I mean the level range will probably shift, I imagine the DLC will increase the cap and I would really appreciate it if they followed the MMO rule of adding more content for free to keep your player base interested, but I don't think its too illogical for them to take this approach.

I still have yet to start Destiny, but if I were them that's what I'd do.

Bungie isn't going to make a sequel that requires people to have played the first game, and I don't see how they could make stuff for level 20-40 but also keep it interesting for 1-20, too (Unless it's just generic missions that scale based on level). I imagine some aspects of character progression will carry over from game to game, but possibly not character levels.

Moderator
Avatar image for corevi
#30 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -
@mb said:

Bungie isn't going to make a sequel that requires people to have played the first game, and I don't see how they could make stuff for level 20-40 but also keep it interesting for 1-20, too (Unless it's just generic missions that scale based on level). I imagine some aspects of character progression will carry over from game to game, but possibly not character levels.

They could just start you at level 20 no matter what. All the Neverwinter Nights expansions did that.

Avatar image for finaldasa
#31 Posted by FinalDasa (3176 posts) -

This isn't surprising. With such a hefty investment in a new game, game engine, buying the studio and so on it makes complete sense for the franchise to be mostly planned out. Sequels tend to make more money especially with a heavy marketed franchise like Destiny. I'm sure Halo was planned out in a very similar fashion by Bungie and Microsoft with course changes make throughout development and as the market changed.

Moderator
Avatar image for harpell
#32 Posted by Harpell (209 posts) -

I hope they change it up a bit with with the next one, if they are keeping to their plan. There are a lot of solid ideas there, but the execution isn't great.

Until this moment, I never realized how much I enjoyed having things explained to me via Madden gif's.

Avatar image for bollard
#33 Posted by Bollard (8151 posts) -

@mb said:

@bollard said:

Given how much this game is structured like an MMO, is it too much to expect the next Destiny game to have level 20-40 content that picks right up from where you left off in the first game? I mean the level range will probably shift, I imagine the DLC will increase the cap and I would really appreciate it if they followed the MMO rule of adding more content for free to keep your player base interested, but I don't think its too illogical for them to take this approach.

I still have yet to start Destiny, but if I were them that's what I'd do.

Bungie isn't going to make a sequel that requires people to have played the first game, and I don't see how they could make stuff for level 20-40 but also keep it interesting for 1-20, too (Unless it's just generic missions that scale based on level). I imagine some aspects of character progression will carry over from game to game, but possibly not character levels.

Could they not do what WoW does and give you a free level 20 character? I don't know, I'd find it more interesting personally if they expanded on what is already there rather than starting again. You're probably right though.

Avatar image for oldirtybearon
#34 Posted by Oldirtybearon (5626 posts) -

Those Madden gifs are pretty great. Good job.

Avatar image for shaunage
#35 Posted by Shaunage (933 posts) -

Remember when Lorne Lanning tried this?

Avatar image for joshwent
#36 Posted by joshwent (2897 posts) -

I'm more interested in why you can't write "DLC" in the madden GIF thing.

#Collusion!

Avatar image for mbradley1992
#37 Posted by mbradley1992 (590 posts) -

@bwheeeler: Those GIFs are great.

I am (one of the few, apparently) totally OK with the idea of expansions. I hate having one game for $60, then in a year have a one hour piece of DLC for $15, then a whole new game two years after the first. I like the Blizzard model of "release base game, expand for several years". I don't think this game would last 6 years before another release, but I'd be satisfied with an expansion each year for $20-30 that was 3-5 more story hours and 2-3 new planets or environments until like 2017. That'd be alright in my book.

Avatar image for csl316
#38 Edited by csl316 (14953 posts) -
Avatar image for monkeyking1969
#39 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7512 posts) -

@monkeyking1969 said:

@corruptedevil said:
@monkeyking1969 said:

Destiny has sold well for the first few days, from what I'm hearing. Thus a 'Destiny - Part Deux' is probably assured. But, I cannot imagine what will have to go into reworking this series, that is already deep into production. If we thought Destiny 2 was going to coming out in 2016, well my guess is push that to Nov 2017. A whole year of revision, rewriting scripts, and voice acting put in the can now to be done let THEN all content they panned in finish in 2 years.

They just need better mission design, that's it. The universe is already set up, however poorly they might have done so.

I'd like dialogue choices when talking to NPCs creates mission choices that matter at the ending of teh next chapter

Why would you possibly expect that?

I expect a modern fully functional game that adheres to the expectations of other modern games within its genera. Who wouldn't expect that??? Its not my job to curb what I want out of a game, if they are making something is "narrative/shooter" genera then they should meet those expectations with similar features.

Avatar image for mbradley1992
#41 Posted by mbradley1992 (590 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: I agree. In an age with Mass Effect and even some (older) Star Wars games, to have this broad sci-fi fantasy that doesn't have any real mission structure that's interesting is disappointing. They could take a page from Bioware on sci-fi storytelling.

Avatar image for bigboss1911
#42 Posted by BigBoss1911 (2932 posts) -

From the sounds of the reactions, looks like this game won't last 2 years.

Avatar image for bacongames
#43 Edited by bacongames (4008 posts) -

I somewhat baffles me that despite, for all intents and purposes, being at the helm of a shooter franchise for 10 years with Halo they'd sign a contract to do the same from the outset with Destiny. If you think about it though, that's sort of been the trajectory for the big tent pole franchises in games. Grand Theft Auto, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Assassin's Creed, Need for Speed, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Halo, Gears of War, etc. are effectively going for that long or longer regardless of how thin some of them are being stretched. I think the difference, and what makes this weird either way, is that Destiny is planned to be a 10 year franchise whereas at most before it was planned trilogies.

Avatar image for starvinggamer
#44 Edited by StarvingGamer (11518 posts) -

@monkeyking1969 said:

I expect a modern fully functional game that adheres to the expectations of other modern games within its genera. Who wouldn't expect that??? Its not my job to curb what I want out of a game, if they are making something is "narrative/shooter" genera then they should meet those expectations with similar features.

Yeah, you know, the well worn territory of the shooter-that's-an-MMO-kinda-but-not-really genre.

Avatar image for stoutlager
#45 Posted by StoutLager (531 posts) -

Whatever the plan is, it'll cost you money.

gotta agree to buy something before it costs me anything, though. so far I'm seeing a lot of meh and it's alright i guess and mechanically competent from both professional reviewers and regular consumers. and that's a no-sale dealio for me.

Avatar image for arbitrarywater
#46 Posted by ArbitraryWater (15681 posts) -

From the sounds of the reactions, looks like this game won't last 2 years.

You have to remember that we're only a small fraction of the target audience for Destiny. The real test will be the reactions of the people who only purchase and play a handful of games per year.

Avatar image for koolaid
#47 Posted by koolaid (1432 posts) -

I get so pissed off the way they talk about this game. 10 year game! Gimme a break.

I read another piece where some Bungie guy said they he doesn't think anyone will really finish Destiny.

Because you will always find new opponents in the multi player. C'mon! Who are you fooling?!

Avatar image for monkeyking1969
#48 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7512 posts) -

@monkeyking1969 said:

I expect a modern fully functional game that adheres to the expectations of other modern games within its genera. Who wouldn't expect that??? Its not my job to curb what I want out of a game, if they are making something is "narrative/shooter" genera then they should meet those expectations with similar features.

Yeah, you know, the well worn territory of the shooter-that's-an-MMO-kinda-but-not-really genre.

Let's break this down, this is a MMO what?
......It is a massively multiplayer online....what exactly?

Well, it is a massively multiplayer - nothing exactly. It is not an MMO at all, now is it? It is an online mutiplayer shooter (much like other shooters). It is an RPG shooter with some co-op at best. Thus if the game is a RPG-Shooter its not unique special snowflake, it is VERY WELL WORN territory from last generation; it just happens to be a very poorly designed one. It is poorly made because it leaves all the trapping off the table that should be expected, and it adds - nothing much in the vacuum of empty space.

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
#49 Posted by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

@starvinggamer said:

@monkeyking1969 said:

I expect a modern fully functional game that adheres to the expectations of other modern games within its genera. Who wouldn't expect that??? Its not my job to curb what I want out of a game, if they are making something is "narrative/shooter" genera then they should meet those expectations with similar features.

Yeah, you know, the well worn territory of the shooter-that's-an-MMO-kinda-but-not-really genre.

Let's break this down, this is a MMO what?

......It is a massively multiplayer online....what exactly?

Well, it is a massively multiplayer - nothing exactly. It is not an MMO at all, now is it? It is an online mutiplayer shooter (much like other shooters). It is an RPG shooter with some co-op at best. Thus if the game is a RPG-Shooter its not unique special snowflake, it is VERY WELL WORN territory from last generation; it just happens to be a very poorly designed one. It is poorly made because it leaves all the trapping off the table that should be expected, and it adds - nothing much in the vacuum of empty space.

Come on, the only thing that fits the RPG coop shooter description is borderlands and Destiny is nothing like borderlands. There is not raids or strike equivalents in borderlands, no public events, no social hub, no PVP, no seamless multiplayer. Destiny is designed like an MMO even if you can't see random people running everywhere all the time.

Avatar image for starvinggamer
#50 Edited by StarvingGamer (11518 posts) -

@monkeyking1969 said:

@starvinggamer said:

@monkeyking1969 said:

I expect a modern fully functional game that adheres to the expectations of other modern games within its genera. Who wouldn't expect that??? Its not my job to curb what I want out of a game, if they are making something is "narrative/shooter" genera then they should meet those expectations with similar features.

Yeah, you know, the well worn territory of the shooter-that's-an-MMO-kinda-but-not-really genre.

Let's break this down, this is a MMO what?

......It is a massively multiplayer online....what exactly?

Well, it is a massively multiplayer - nothing exactly. It is not an MMO at all, now is it? It is an online mutiplayer shooter (much like other shooters). It is an RPG shooter with some co-op at best. Thus if the game is a RPG-Shooter its not unique special snowflake, it is VERY WELL WORN territory from last generation; it just happens to be a very poorly designed one. It is poorly made because it leaves all the trapping off the table that should be expected, and it adds - nothing much in the vacuum of empty space.

Let's see:

  • Public hub area featuring quest-givers, vendors, and a bank
  • Large zones segmented into public areas and instanced/phased areas according to storyline progress
  • Instanced dungeons balanced for a full party
  • Grindable generic kill X monster or collect X things or go here and click on a thing quests
  • Daily quests
  • Faction/vendor rep and currencies
  • PvP vendors with PvP gear
  • Mounts with level-gated speed upgrades
  • Loot-driven character progression with color-coded rarities
  • Gathering/crafting
  • Customizable talent progression (to a limited degree) and class specializations
  • End-game content post level-cap featuring raids requiring multiple full parties
  • Sitting/Waving/Pointing/Dancing

Yeah, not a kinda-but-not-really MMO at all.

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