I currently have a level 28 character in Destiny and I am loving the game. But my issue isn't with people liking or disliking the game, just on the grounds for why they may like or dislike it. The arguments such as, "the game doesn't have enough content" "the story is weak" "there isn't enough loot" "the game doesn't explain it's core systems well enough" and etc.

What bugs me about these arguments most, is that apparently a game is considered universally "bad" in Destiny's case because of it's price, and budget for doing things differently. I'm fine if you have explored what Destiny has to offer (late game content, crazy raiding and meaningful loot attached to mechanics, how deep you can explore especially as you get in the later levels) and after the fact what Destiny has isn't for you. Fine. But the arguments we are seeing are no that, even from some of the reviewers. The worst part about all of this is that Destiny hasn't even been given a fair chance by so many because of some false weird expectations.

How many people in this world have played Minecraft, Terraria, or exclusively the MP side of games like CoD/Battlefield and endless others? So you bought a game and experienced zero, or very little story before. But Destiny has very little story? Somehow it's a bad thing for it to do it, but countless others can and it's somehow a fault. The game doesn't explain it's systems? Weird, the Souls games never did that very well but everyone still raves about them. Hell some people even LIKE the fact that those games don't hold your hand. But when Destiny doesn't hold your hand it's a problem. The loot system is different than Diablo and Borderlands? Again, what makes that flat out a problem? It's different. But people are expecting loot drops all the time, aren't getting it, and 5 hours in are going "meh" with the system. Get to the later loot, grind your way to a legendary or maybe even an exotic. See what some of those attributes on that loot are and you'll see what people are arguing when they say loot is meaningful. The quests are boring is a great argument. They are. Doesn't seem to bother countless millions who play MMO games and have for years. Again though, because Destiny did it, it's a fault. Even the exploration style of Destiny is kind of akin to an open world game like Skyrim. There is very little to do in the worlds, but you can just explore and find things like player events, and other hidden things around the environment. Not even counting the new areas that unlock once you hit level 30.

Ultimately to me it feels ironic and hypocritical of a big chunk of people who argue against the experience they are having in Destiny. They want something new, but refuse to engage in what makes Destiny different. They don't want games to be holding their hands, but when you are required to explore, learn, and understand systems that are unfamiliar to you, it's a chore and people can't be bothered. The game has things we are all familiar with but presents and does them in different ways. Those ways may not be for you, but at least give the game a fair chance and actually try them.

~*reviews are subjective not objective*~

It's great that you are enjoying it. Others aren't and it has nothing to do with giving the game chances. I find almost every design choice made in Destiny contrary to what I'd consider a "good direction."

But I understand where you're coming from. I was the same way with Watch Dogs - thought it was a fun open world game with some interesting mechanics. The world hated it and I'm in the minority. It stings everyone mentions a game you enjoy in a completely negative way, but thats how it is sometimes.

I think false weird expectations comes from the fact that they flat out refused to explain what kind of game this was for months and months, but they kept showing footage. That will build certain expectations, and if they never got out and shot down the false ones, that's on them.

You compare parts of Destiny to other games like the Souls games, Minecraft, Diablo/Bordelands, MMOs and Skyrim. Maybe the problem is that Destiny borrows alot from those games, and does well with them, but never manage to carve out an identity in the process. There are alot of elements in Destiny I normally would have liked, but when it's put all together, I just found myself bored with the whole thing. I played to lvl 12, and I can see myself not picking it up again.

@devise22: I feel like the problem is that Destiny does many things that other games do, but just not as well. Your comparisons seem confusing. Why would I compare Destiny's story to Terraria, Minecraft, Cod, or Battlefield. I play Terraria and Minecraft because I know it will give me a endless experience of building whatever I want. I play Cod and Battlefield for the Multiplayer. People buy certain games with expectations of what they will be based on marketing, early beta impressions (in this games case), and the company's prior game library.

I don't think it's far fetched to say that people expected a story as good as, or at least close to Halo. Multiplayer similar to or as good as Halo. I understand they are trying to make a completely different IP and that's fine, but damn this game feels like it is trying to be Halo. It's Sci-Fi, the Hive sounds like the flood, and the robot bad guys sound like the Convent in the story. The movement feels the same, and the combat. The enemies have religious undertones.

The loot system feels pointless, and not even by comparison to Diablo or Borderlands. Not getting enough loot isn't an issue, since in Diablo and Borderlands you'd get so much loot that 90% of it was garbage. It just seems like they didn't even need to put in the loot system to begin with, or leveling for that matter. The exploration system is nothing like Skyrim. Yes people will grind away in MMOs, but with thousands of other players, which seemingly endless things to do. I know some would argue that the story in some MMOS are insanely fleshed out and detailed. You could read for days just playing World of Warcraft or The Old Republic. Which really immerses you in the world.

This, but my 2 cents: I like the game, I don't love it.(I've got a lvl 19 Titan) I generally focus my game playing time to more story-focused games. In all honesty, Destiny's story is sub-par, it barely exists and that's ok. There is just enough there to keep most people interested. Most of the missions are VERY Rinse, Repeat..badly. The biggest complaint I've heard, which I think is very much a problem, is the lack of a real matchmaking and a completely unbalanced multiplayer. I cant access the "best equipment" because its tied to the Crucible. Its not that I'm terrible at it either, Its a shooter and at its core, its the same as every shooter with its basic concept. I actually finished first on my team in my first two games( I played about 15 games last night) and the more I played, the worst "I" started to do. I was in there with lvl 25-28 people and their abilities were just too OP for me. There was NOTHING I could do. THATS A PROBLEM. It not fun to play something when I cant even compete.

Another little problem I have is that, the game does an absolutely terrible job at fully explaining everything.

You could probably summarize the problem very simply by saying "there's a difference between trying and failing and not trying at all". Destiny tries to be a lot of things, but aren't great at being any of them.

Hey, I'm having a great time with the game too but I don't need my opinion validated by anyone. If Jeff didn't care for it after ending the main capaign it's all right. He's never been that into largely coop experiences anyway.

Reviews are subjective. Given that, I think what you're picking up on is what I think are legitimate criticisms of the game being shallow weighted against the game's hyperbolic PR campaign. You can't really tell everyone your game will change everything, take preorders a year before release on the basis of an e3 trailer, drag in Paul McCartney(TM) and then release something as shallow the finished product. It isn't a bad game, it just isn't all that.

Enjoying the game but I don't see how you can argue with the reviews. From what I've played and what Jeff is saying... I can already see the repetitiveness, the lack of individuality in armor and loot and, on top of that, a lackluster story. Well, I'm glad I really enjoy the gunplay and the MP is all I can say because, otherwise, I'd regret my purchase.

A lot of your comparisons to other games feel like you're looking for justification to criticize reviews rather having valid points. For example;

The difference is that in a lot of those games (or when you choose to just play multiplayer) the game never introduce you to any story elements. Either because there is none, or because that feature doesn't require it. But if Minecraft started with an opening cinematic of your role in the universe and kept giving you story beats as you're mining away, people would judge that too. Destiny insisted on having a story that it put forth to the player, if that story is thin or not good, people will note that. The fact that there are story-free games and modes in other games is completely beside the point. Even the fact that you can have fun with the game while ignoring the story is beside the point of; "is the story good and implemented well? Yes/No".

But I can't shake the feeling that you're just upset the reviews aren't validating your experience. And to that point, who cares what a review say if you're enjoying it? Play the game!

@pyrodactyl said:

I'm with pyro here. I finished all the story content just earlier today and I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't have much problem with going solo for most of the game, though it was a ton of fun partying up with one of my old high school buddies through a bunch of the moon missions. Of course, the highlight for me has been the Strike missions, as I've never been a competitive games type of guy and more a cooperative one. That said, I can't wait to get into the higher level Strikes to get better gear.

That being said, I can admit the faults and shortcomings the game has. Realistically, this game might be my personal GOTY as no other game that has come out this year has hooked me in the same way Destiny has, but I doubt I'll see it on the list for many of the professional review sites out there. And that's just fine with me.

With regards to Minecraft and Terraria, those games present to you a world in which you can go do anything you want. Building, spelunking, hunting, farming, diving, fighting etc. (Almost) Literally anything you can imagine. You make your own story. In Destiny, the story is comprised of a whole bunch of "go here, shoot dudes, push button, shoot more dudes, grab items, shoot more dudes, done." rinse and repeat missions, surrounded by a narrative that just doesn't seem to be grabbing people the way it should be.

Therefore, I don't think its very fair for you to use those as your examples, as they are not even close to the same thing.

Truthfully, the Multiplayer side of CoD/Battlefield games can really only be compared to the Crucible. A lot of people don't like it because not everybody seems to like Halo like they used to. They've gravitated to games where you shoot dudes, and they go down almost instantly. Just look at how popular Team SWAT in Halo was. Very fast paced with minimum dicking around. Don't get me wrong, I vastly prefer Halo to CoD, but when I play in the Crucible I find myself thinking "I'd rather be playing Halo."

No. My time is important, and the tedium of the grind is NOT worth the enhancements. What good is end-game content if it's incredibly boring to get there? By the time the good shit starts dropping, my friends and I will be entirely burnt out by how overly repetitive it is, a new game will come out, and we will be playing that instead.

^This.^ Just because you have the time and willpower, @devise22, doesn't mean everyone else will (or should). This isn't a case of the vocal minority making a stink about it.

I love hearing the reasons people come up with to dismiss any sort of criticism of something they enjoy. It's perfectly fine you don't agree with the reviews, but to try and paint them as objectively invalid using what is ultimately subjective reasoning is...well...c'mon.

Different opinions are different. Perfectly fair chance was given.

I think Mass Effect 3 is way better than 2, for example, and people on this site disagree.

Some days I just want to tell the Internet that it's time to grow up and realize that all the 'You're so special!' bullshit they foist on you in school these days is, well, bullshit.

Your opinion is not fact. Liking something does not make it inherently good. Live with it.

People like what people like.

And then you go on to compare Destiny to other games that also don't do those things well... instead of arguing that they actually are good in Destiny. You're missing your own point. Many games have one big flaw, at the expense of the rest which is great. Destiny isn't that. It seems to have many middling flaws, which for some, add up to a middling experience.

Someone's reaching, and I don't think it's the reviewers.

This. Also Destiny is unique in AAA games in that reviewers coolness towards it can entirely be explained by qualitative reasons as well as personal taste. Destiny has a long list of issues that make it a mediocre experience that are pretty difficult to refute e.g. lack of variety, dull mission design, dearth of content, uninteresting boss design and lore being delivered outside the actual game (!). It's totally okay to say "I understand that these problems exist and I don't care" but it sounds crazy to dismiss them on the basis that reviewers didn't spend enough time to develop Stockholm Syndrome and start enjoying the game unreservedly.

People don't think something I like is very good? They musn't have given it a chance, I mean it's not like the was a beta available to adjust expectations accordingly in advanced and every ones crticisms of the game are pretty much exactly the same to one another.

Destiny has problems yo. I do like playing it though, and thats all that really matters to me.

Bingo.

Every review is someone's opinion. If someone you just met told you they didn't think Destiny was great, just good or average, would you get that upset or riled up?

For me, I had high hopes in Destiny. They represented the game as a loot driven, story heavy, immersive first person shooter. The final product was very different.

If you're enjoying the game, then enjoy it. Who cares what other people think?

@devise22: I see that everyone has already mentioned all the big points for why the things you mentioned turned out to be a problem in Destiny. So, the one thing I'd like to add is that, in Jeff's review at least, he does in fact explain why he finds the loot system and the mission structure bad. Maybe he would have preferred Destiny if those aspects were somewhat closer to the other games you mentioned, but the point is that his arguments were not just, "It's not like this, so it's bad."

Oh, and if it helps, look at the comments on Jeff's review. A lot of people say that he has valid points, but that they're still hooked on the game anyway. I'm still early on, but I have a feeling I'm going to fall into that category.

If a game bores me to death all the way up until the end, why would I want to keep playing it? Don't just entertain me for half of it, entertain me for all of it (ideally).

It's not considered a bad game. It's considered a mediocre game. There's a difference.

But like really who cares? If youre enjoying it play it and forget everyone else. Jeff not being 100% on board with the game doesn't invalidate your time with it.

I am also enjoying it.

But I can see it's (numerous) shortcomings...

Say what YOU like, don't stand around telling everyone else who might disagree why they are just bad, wrong people ineligible to have an opinion. You sound sore that your opinion isn't widely held. But, how is that anyone's fault; how are your hurt feelings something anyone else has control over?

There's a big difference between a game that purposefully constructs a narrative and fails and a game that creates a world for players to create their own narrative in.

Even if the amount of content in Destiny is acceptable (or even abundant), if people don't enjoy the content or find it to be of middling quality (which seems to be the complaint), how does its scale or budget factor into it? The same goes for endgame content - why should Destiny be forgiven for 15 hours of tedium even if the endgame is cool? FFXIII wasn't forgiven for that.

Where scale and budgets factor in is the degree of disappointment, not in the reviews themselves. In my eyes, at least, this was supposed to be the sure thing that launched a lot of gamers off their old 360s and PS3s.

No destiny but what we make

I dunno, I think Destiny is pretty great.

I haven't heard anyone say it's bad. At worst, I've heard dull, boring, and wasted potential. And who cares, as long you enjoy it right? Isn't that the point?

The way people are talking about it reminds me of Defiance and Warframe. Destiny got way more of a chance than those games did. Polygon had not one but two reviewers play it and they had the same complaints after each playing over 30 hours. It sounds like Patrick, Alex and Jeff also had those complaints. It's an OK game at times but is uninteresting at others.

It's alright to enjoy games that other may not like or not many favor.

It's okay. Let go. Just enjoy it and be free.

Most of the early reviews seem to have ignored major content. So I'd say not giving the game a fair chance is a good point.

I also think people have genuinely gotten stuck in a rut where they don't want to break out and I think they've been conditioned to expect things they shouldn't. The idea that every loot game needs to have faster crazier loot systems.

I think it's really silly that people are taking issue more with where the OP is coming from (criticism of the industry's reaction towards a game) instead of his actual points. Even criticism can be critiqued. Especially when that criticism comes in the form of advice for consumers.

Yes, things are subjective. But that doesn't mean that the subjective conclusions someone came to were arrived to in the best way. For example, people not giving the game enough time to properly review it.

Personally I'm still super excited for getting a PS4 with the game as soon as I get back to working. Everything I've seen of the game so far has really spoken to me. Even the story and stuff seems right up my alley.

This game seems like it's going to have a long tail for those who stick with it and I think a lot of reviews have ignored the fact that the game has very publicly been stated as being intended to do so.

Thing is, I don't think it's fair to say that Destiny didn't do any of those things well. I think it chose a lot of those things and I think those are POSITIVES.

Everything I've seen of the story seems neat, and I like the structure it seems to have. I think the loot system is a lot smarter than people realize, and if they stopped thinking about it as much the way they are they'd be able to enjoy it a lot more. It's not Diablo, it's not Borderlands. It's its own thing. And not explaining every mechanic in detail isn't a bad thing. It's fun to discover stuff.

SOME of the criticisms are valid, don't get me wrong. But I think too many are being treated, funnily enough, as true flaws when in fact they aren't. They are just different ways of doing things and not to the tastes of critics.

The problem with Destiny's story isn't that there's very little of it, it's that what is there is not very good. Sure, Minecraft has no story, but nobody expected it to and Notch never tried to give it one. Same with Call of Duty and Battlefield - their developers don't really try to give them a story, they just toss you into an arena and let you do your objectives. Destiny tries to give players a story and most players don't seem to think very highly of it.

You sound like you're stretching arguments to validate your opinion against Jeff's.

I think this is a good write-up, and speaks to many double-standards the industry had, not just in regards to Destiny but games in general. Don't entirely agree with all points but a fair reaction to the Destiny reaction I think.

just like your average game and dont worry about people

People aren't being unfair by not liking it, there are a bunch of legitimate reasons not to like it and you don't really address any of them short of saying "well I don't agree". This game currently has 3 quick looks and 2 additional videos of Jeff and Brad's solo experience, if anything this game was given an unfair amount of room to redeem itself. Most games dont get this kind of coverage. So pardon me for laughing at this non-argument. Play your game.

You are exaggerating the response to this game. I doubt many would say it's bad. Most are saying it's middling.

Literally noone is making that complaint. What people are saying is that the loot system isn't impactful. Every item you get just another dime in the bag and you never get a feeling of getting something great or unique. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a slower, more deliberate loot system, but then you better make sure every piece is something worth checking out. It used to be one of the great things about FPSs, every time you got a new weapon it was something crazy and fun to play around with.

@devise22: I'm not playing it or was ever planning on playing it. The truth for me the commercials just made it look like Halo, so I basically wrote it off. Now I'm hearing it's like a mmo, it's like boarderlands, it's maybe a little like Mass Effect.

I don't know I guess if your into it play it but at this point for me those are allot of things that i don't care much for. Though I almost bought Boarderlands 2 during a free weekend on steam.

@jarmahead: An opinion is still an opinion and a majority of gaming outlets have formulated a mediocre one based on their experience with the game. Take that as you will. I personally think if they consciously chose to make these decisions regarding gameplay and plot then Bungie must be incredibly out of touch with the realities of today's videogames. Games are getting bigger, more open, flow better, they're seamless, they have deeper and more meaningful stories. If Bungie actually decided they want to do the opposite of all this in lieu of an empty shell they'll populate piecemeal with DLC then the scores they received were already much higher than they deserve.

And as damning as that might sound I sincerely am happy that you have found something here that really speaks to you. A lot of other people didn't and thats ok. At the end of the day it's you playing the game.

Not enough areas and the way the areas are used is pretty weak, also the story is shit. That said I'm having fun with it and cant wait to play in the Iron Banner game mode.

This will be a pretty great game when 3-4 expansions are out and Bungie makes it's tweaks. The Diablo 3 effect will happen again. Diablo 3 launches, this game is shit. A year later, this game is great. Wait and see.

@devise22:

How many people in this world have played Minecraft, Terraria, or exclusively the MP side of games like CoD/Battlefield and endless others? So you bought a game and experienced zero, or very little story before. But Destiny has very little story? Somehow it's a bad thing for it to do it, but countless others can and it's somehow a fault. The game doesn't explain it's systems? Weird, the Souls games never did that very well but everyone still raves about them. Hell some people even LIKE the fact that those games don't hold your hand. But when Destiny doesn't hold your hand it's a problem. The loot system is different than Diablo and Borderlands? Again, what makes that flat out a problem? It's different. But people are expecting loot drops all the time, aren't getting it, and 5 hours in are going "meh" with the system. Get to the later loot, grind your way to a legendary or maybe even an exotic. See what some of those attributes on that loot are and you'll see what people are arguing when they say loot is meaningful. The quests are boring is a great argument. They are. Doesn't seem to bother countless millions who play MMO games and have for years. Again though, because Destiny did it, it's a fault. Even the exploration style of Destiny is kind of akin to an open world game like Skyrim. There is very little to do in the worlds, but you can just explore and find things like player events, and other hidden things around the environment. Not even counting the new areas that unlock once you hit level 30.

Because those things have been done before, it doesn't mean people will like them. Some of those things were berated by players, but overshadowed by the strong points of the games that engaged before in the same faults. The problem is when a developer mix different concepts that players are ambivalent about, flat out don't like, or don't feel strongly about, making the game either polarizing, hated, or dismissed. Destiny is suffering such destiny.

I have destiny, i have enjoyed what i've played so far, that being said, I'm kinda with Jeff. As someone who recently turned 30 I tend to have more money than time to play games. I have no problem investing my $60 into a game, but if I don't connect with it in the first 2 hours I do consider it a let down. That's just my opinion though and I love trying new games and seeing what new spins developers put on things.

Ultimately it's a 3/5 game for me for the reasons everyone has already listed. But it's an enjoyable 3/5. Mirror's Edge was a 3/5 for me too but I fucking love that game. Not every gane that a person thinks is great needs to be given great review scores and press. And that's ok.

I agree with the reviews, but i still enjoy the game alot.

Not many people on the internet are capable of grasping this concept,unfortunately.

Super Mario brothers has a better story than destiny. It's the worst in a while. There simply isn't much to do in the game. The quests are the wooooorst. The combat is very satisfying and It does look very pretty but that doesn't make it a good game.