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    Destiny

    Game » consists of 25 releases. Released Sep 09, 2014

    Shoot your way across the solar system to level up and collect new loot in this multiplayer-focused first-person shooter from Bungie and Activision.

    New player - most memorable experience in gaming since Halo

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    DrSwank

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    #1  Edited By DrSwank

    Since Destiny's release, I've continued to read and hear a lot of discussion about Destiny, especially on the GBcast. A lot of the forum writers keep flaming the game to no end. So, when I saw that Destiny was on sale on XB1, especially the DG edition for $67, I decided to play the trial for the first time. I was very impressed, so I bought it. Since then, my wife and I and nephew have been playing daily and nightly, and just completed fighting Phogath last night. It's been incredible.

    So incredible in fact that I started quantifying how incredible it was. Then I realized that I haven't had this much fun with Coop since Halo 1, nor have I spent this much time binging on coop. Then it dawned on me, how could Bungie be the developer for two of the most impressive coop experiences I've ever had on console? I came to a few conclusions about it that I want non-Destiny players to understand about Destiny, coming from a person that's never played an MMO, my wife's never played an MMO, and the only other game she plays is Lego games, which are excruciating for me to both watch and play with her, so this is a big deal.

    Bungie has created a experience that encompasses the MMO concepts and boils them down to an experience that doesn't require the typical MMO commitments. Sure, a lot of people are grinding for gear and what have you (and complaining about it), but we've probably played over 15 hours so far, and what I've played, and the experiences I've had are easily worth what I've paid so far. In a world where Bungie has mastered the party system, that It's hard to not love it for that alone.

    The art design is also hugely impressive, as well as the base concepts of the story. The graphics are incredible for a game of this scope, and this is the first of its kind. The art is so unique, and one can tell that it's taken a long time for this team to go through many many iterations to get it just right. And the music is so classic bungie too, which is so good. As someone who works in film production, I can see the blood, sweat and tears that these artists have slaved away on, and I think they nailed something that what my wife said while we were playing, "It's like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and Star Trek TNG had a baby." I agree, and it doesn't feel iterative which is the most impressive part.

    Playing our second strike last night, it stretched us thin. We almost gave up, but we gave it one last try, and prevailed. It felt amazing. It will be a memory I will never forget, right up there with playing coop with my brother, on the last level of Halo CE. No small feat for me.

    All-in-all, whilst lurking in the wings, consuming the rhetoric about Destiny, it seems that people are expecting/hoping this game to be like WoW + Halo, when I feel like it's more appropriate to think of it like Halo: The Next Generation. What Halo would be if your character and journey is unique to you (even if superficially so). Ironically, it wasn't until after playing the Halo 5 MP Beta that I made the choice to purchase Destiny. Halo is a carcass, a holding company where Bungie ideas gone to die. I know 343 is trying hard, but the team at Bungie is doing something special, and are doing for MMO's on console with Destiny that they did with first-person shooters on console with Halo CE. I think largely their achievements here have been over-clouded by a very staunch MMO crowd. I've never liked MMO's though, but I love this.

    The thing that most excites me about Destiny, is that it's Bungie creating something brand new, and it's better than Halo. And I miss Halo.

    As someone who recently purchased the Halo MCC, Destiny is a breath of fresh air, insomuch that everything just works. I'm not sure what the endgame content is, but then again, I'm not an MMO player. I may not care, tbh. I work for a living, and love my job in real life. I don't play games to feel satisfaction about my life. I play a game to have fun, not to grind for loot, in order to show off how badass I am in the Crucible because that's what hardcore WoW players do... or something psychologically unbalanced. When I play Destiny I have fun. If I stop having fun, then I stop playing - a recommendation I have for any gamer who needs to find meaning in their own life. Stop trying to find it in a game.

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    pweidman

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    Many people feel the same way you do tc about Destiny. I really like the game too, and can't stop playing it. On the other hand there are some glaring issues Bungie needs to address to evolve the game and make it better and more well rounded. As you play more you'll likely see these things, and honestly, I think they will keep iterating and making it better over time. And btw, you could have left the Dr. Phil-esque advice there at the end of your post out. No one here at GB needs a lecture on that stuff.

    Oh, and how do you know you don't like MMO's if you've never played one? Just curious, lol.

    Cheers!

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    Brendan

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    Alex actually described why I like Destiny so much on one of the GOTY 'casts. Destiny has "mouthfeel" so good that I just find it a pleasure to play. It has content and variety problems and if I didn't have friends playing the game (a rare thing for me) then I would have slowed down by now but I'm still having a good time.

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    DrSwank

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    #4  Edited By DrSwank

    @pweidman said:

    Oh, and how do you know you don't like MMO's if you've never played one? Just curious, lol.

    Ha! I've seen many friends over the years play them, going back to EQ, but WoW especially. I tried them when my friends were literally forcing me to, but wasn't fun for me. I keep an eye out for new and unique IP's on PC, say like Secret World, which I did try. And did try both GW1 and GW2, and Neverwinter, but again, like I said, I've never played them, played them. Just tried them.

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    DrSwank

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    @brendan said:

    Alex actually described why I like Destiny so much on one of the GOTY 'casts. Destiny has "mouthfeel" so good that I just find it a pleasure to play. It has content and variety problems and if I didn't have friends playing the game (a rare thing for me) then I would have slowed down by now but I'm still having a good time.

    So true about the friends part. I started playing it solo with a Warlock. Played to lvl 13, then my wife got into it. We did play with another friend of mine, but his style of play didn't suit ours, which spurred on many lengthy discussions about how to talk to him about it! LOL. "He's not playing it right." xD

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    bargainben

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    #6  Edited By bargainben

    That you feel the need to bring up "haters" so often in your comment informs your experience came from kind of a bitter spiteful place. Ok, you enjoyed it. Doesn't change what people didn't like. Doesn't make those people you bring up suddenly wrong. Doesn't mean they played the game wrong. Doesn't mean they need a life lesson from you on playing games. I just get a heavy middle finger from your entire post. People who don't like Destiny need to get a life? Chill, man. You can enjoy the game without making some 101 psychology statement about how people who played the game and didn't love it. A lot of people have such strong opinions because of what the game was sold as compared to what it ended up being. Early impressions, descriptions, even trailers, were entirely misleading.

    People are allowed to have an opinion based on that when what ships is a 60 dollar game with 4 stages. Not worlds, worlds are bigger than this. Stages. They built a 1998 MMO curve onto 4 stages and a town. I just wrapped up my FF14 trials, there are direct parallels to Destiny only FF14 has to respond to WoW, so you're inundated with new content paths opening every 5 levels or so right up until level 50. So really Destiny is slower than your average modern MMO in its progression. Its kind of the ballsiest thing a company's done since DA 2 said "here's the same dungeon with different paths blocked off, now its a new dungeon what are you gonna do about it". You can reward that behavior and excuse it if you want to see more of it. A lot of people would rather not see another game try and slip this shit by them so they're making themselves heard now. Bucking the trend.

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    DrSwank

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    That you feel the need to bring up "haters" so often in your comment informs your experience came from kind of a bitter spiteful place.

    I never say "haters" yet you quote me as saying it. Furthermore, it is difficult to enter into a new entertainment experience when so much discussion revolves around why people hate prior to me playing. So yes, It's nearly impossible not to carry that baggage into it, at least from an outsiders perspective. :) Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, as I certainly welcome all perspectives. :)

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    Shortbreadtom

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    Holy shit this thread. First of all, you seem to have the entire Halo vs MMO conversation backwards. This isn't "Halo the Next Generation", because Halo had a story and characters and a world that was fleshed out without needing a fucking browser window. Destiny has none of this. It's great that you're enjoying playing through it, but in comparison to Halo's expansive and varied levels Destiny's repeating environments and cookie cutter encounters barely hold a candle to it. Your argument is predicated on people, which you describe as psychologically unbalanced (which is super fucked in and of itself), going into the game expecting more of an MMO. And while that is true to some extent, you have to remember that that is what the game was marketed as from the beginning, so of course people go in with certain expectations. But then when it wasn't that, people's expectations should change, right? Well, they did change (at least mine did) to think that hey, if this isn't MMO-like, then it should be a fun shooter with a solid campaign or coop experience. And a lot of people are of the opinion that it isn't that. Destiny is straddling the line between the two, and that is why so many people are down on the game. It doesn't have the huge loot system of an MMO, instead is has terrible grinding and repeating environments of an MMO.

    You make a massive assumptions on why people dislike the game without fully understanding people's actual gripes with it. I don't want to take away from your enjoyment, but saying that people don't like the game because of their own preconceptions and bad attitude is just incorrect. Also, don't pull your psych 101 shit into it. There is nothing psychologically unbalanced about wanting to get good loot in a game about loot

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    nickhead

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    I also only recently got way into Destiny. I put in a ton of time since New Years. I'm loving it. It has a lot of issues but its fun to play with friends. I wish the story were better, but honestly, comparing the story to Halo is kind of silly. I'm not the only one who would say they love Halo, but also could care less about the narrative. Halo was always about gameplay to me, and Destiny has that, and more.

    I'm still not cool with what seems to have been the obvious withholding of content for DLC, but personally, it has been a long long time since I've wanted to keep playing a game the minute I put down the controller.

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    HH

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    #10  Edited By HH

    i don't pay much attention to hype for games, i look at some stills maybe and that's about it. I loved Destiny, got a character to level 28, then moved on to another game, like i always thought I would, next time i'm in the mood to shoot stuff I will probably turn on Destiny because it's got that great feel to it, and because i've got my blinged up character sitting there waiting for me.

    Back in the day I played through every level of halo 1 and 2 I don't know how many times, the same levels again and again and again, and there were no rewards, there was no loot, and no progression, it was all just for fun, and the repetition was never a problem. And that's exactly how i felt when i was playing Destiny, except this time I got rewarded! But apparently that's not enough for most gamers nowadays.

    I don't think complaints against Destiny are invalid, but I do feel that the criticism has gotten out of hand, its almost hysterical at this stage, just like the hype was big before it, the fallout is big, and the fallout seems to me to match the hype more than it matches the game.

    I felt the same way about Dragon Age 2, which someone mentioned above, when that happened. Both of these are solid games, and I think anyone coming to them without the hype attached, knowing nothing at all, are far less likely to come down so hard on them, and are going to have amore grounded, and fairer, opinion. That's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned.

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    DrSwank

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    @nickhead said:

    it has been a long long time since I've wanted to keep playing a game the minute I put down the controller.

    This is so true!

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    DrSwank

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    @hh said:

    i don't pay much attention to hype for games, i look at some stills maybe and that's about it. I loved Destiny, got a character to level 28, then moved on to another game, like i always thought I would, next time i'm in the mood to shoot stuff I will probably turn on Destiny because it's got that great feel to it, and because i've got my blinged up character sitting there waiting for me.

    Back in the day I played through every level of halo 1 and 2 I don't know how many times, the same levels again and again and again, and there were no rewards, there was no loot, and no progression, it was all just for fun, and the repetition was never a problem. And that's exactly how i felt when i was playing Destiny, except this time I got rewarded! But apparently that's not enough for most gamers nowadays.

    I don't think complaints against Destiny are invalid, but I do feel that the criticism has gotten out of hand, its almost hysterical at this stage, just like the hype was big before it, the fallout is big, and the fallout seems to me to match the hype more than it matches the game.

    I felt the same way about Dragon Age 2, which someone mentioned above, when that happened. Both of these are solid games, and I think anyone coming to them without the hype attached, knowing nothing at all, are far less likely to come down so hard on them, and are going to have amore grounded, and fairer, opinion. That's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned.

    I echo this completely, and well said.

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    JosephKnows

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    Just wait until you hit the end game! Then it really turns into a grind!

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    Dan_CiTi

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    #14  Edited By Dan_CiTi

    It's fun until you realize it is half a game (content & design wise.) It's not aggressively awful at all, just soulless and dry. Felt the same way about Dragon Age 2, AC Unity, and quite a few more. It could have been good, but at some point they had to ship the game instead of make it great. It was an alright game, enjoyable, but nothing special or greatly notable. "but it was a pretty fun co-op game" kind of just doesn't cut it since like that applies to like 300 other games.

    At a certain point I realized doing the same 6 bounties every 4 days was not at all fun and that the Crucible was far and away the worst multiplayer Bungie has ever done. Again, servicable but still reminded me that "oh wait even Halo 4 was way more interesting, varied, and fun MP than this and I wasn't even that crazy about anything that game had going on at all".

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    cornbredx

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    The only problem I'm going to tackle with your post (I'll just try and ignore how condescending and aggressive the last half of it is) is you seem to not understand the concept of a guilty pleasure- which is what Destiny is for everybody at least as far as they account for it (even you- even if you don't seem to realize it).

    A guilty pleasure is something you enjoy even if it's bad, or reasonably considered poor, when broken down.

    Destiny has no significant story (you will have no impact on the world, and it is my understanding the story is non-existent in game regardless only being there to set you on your task and then become moot), has no real goal (you'll never really feel like the game is over- it's designed that way), has no real concept beyond do the same thing over and over to get more loot or to meet requirements to obtain more loot later on. These are concepts from MMOs that Destiny is taking (and interestingly enough somehow making people think it's an MMO. Like the original Guild Wars, Destiny is not an MMO. So if you haven't played an MMO before- you still haven't). These are successful, all-be-it arguably poor, concepts.

    What you seem to enjoy is the coop experience, and not the game itself. If you played it alone I suspect you'd have a much different experience because you'd have to focus on what the game is, and that is what most people are responding to.

    This doesn't make your experience wrong, and it doesn't make anyone else's wrong either. You're just a different perspective in a sea of different perspectives. Most enjoy the game on some level, but realize it could be better as a whole. This is a guilty pleasure.

    I would equate it to a bucket of oil based chocolate (most american chocolates, actually). It's pretty good, and you think it's great you have all this chocolate. Until you experience a bar of pure milk chocolate. Then you realize the oil based chocolate, while still good to you, could be totally better.

    Anyway, I'm not debating you like the game; that is subjective and there's nothing wrong with you liking things. The fact that you like the game doesn't make the game good, though.

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    HH

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    #16  Edited By HH

    @cornbredx: your post is far more condescending than the OP's and YOU don't seem to realize it.

    broken mechanics aside, no game can be objectively good or bad, it's ALL down to perspective. i don't like Destiny cos it's a guilty pleasure, i like it cos it's a good game IMO, that's all there is to it. story has never been important to me in games, or to a lot of people, because it makes no difference to whether i enjoy it or not, it's a peripheral concern, and as soon as someone criticizes a game for its story i think - okay so the chances are still the same that i could like the game, and this has proven to be a reliable assumption. no story has ever soured me on a game, and no story has ever sold me on a game, and this will continue to be the case, for as much as it matters to you, it does not matter objectively, it is a question of priorities, and taste, and the same can be said for grinding, and even (as clumsy as this analogy is) - god forbid that some palates respond better to oil - *milk*!

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    impartialgecko

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    I routinely forget that Destiny exists.

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    DrSwank

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    @cornbredx: Arguably, the only thing I said that is condenscending is in the last paragraph, but as much as you may disagree, finding self-worth within a video game isn't psychologically healthy, and are signs of addiction or other unbalanced mental states. I studied addiction and video game addiction in college, and even interviewed the formost authority on video game addiction in the world, and as much as you think what I said is condescending, your defensiveness could indicate your cognitive dissonance. Conclusively, scientifically, finding self-worth and playing games to feel satisfaction about real life is unhealthy.

    Consuming entertainment should always be for fun, can be healthy as escapism in small doses, but is unhealthy to associate feelings self-worth in one's own life. However, ignoring mental science to serve your own perspective is certainly your own choice.

    At the end of the day, the purpose for writing the OP is more for the "Drew Scanlons," i.e. the casual Halo gamers among us, who, like me, enjoy Halo, and haven't tried Destiny yet, and wanted to outline for a a new player to Destiny, that if you enjoy Halo, then you very well could enjoy what Destiny offers, despite the negative rhetoric swirling about, inasmuch rhetoric associated with the hardcore WoW-ish Destiny players, thus if said casual gamer who likes Halo may like Destiny for the reasons I listed in the OP. Cheers matey!

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    cornbredx

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    #19  Edited By cornbredx

    @hh: I wasn't being condescending. I don't even really know where you get that. Making observations isn't condescension.

    But you are wrong, a game can be either good or bad. I could not, however, say a game is fun for you or not. That would be subjective. I wasn't really debating that.

    So, obviously we are speaking about the build of the game; how well it was made. We aren't talking about taste- although I can understand how you might think I was by using a chocolate analogy and you assuming some kind of condescension and going on the defensive. That is unnecessary, but I apologize if I led you astray by trying to make an example poorly.

    You can like Destiny all you want. It doesn't make it a well made game. Whether you like story or not- if the story is bad, it's still bad. If the game play "loop" is bad (even if successful) it's still bad. These aren't attacks; that's just how it is. Things that are created can be good or bad. This doesn't (and shouldn't) affect how much you like them.

    For example I love films by Ed Wood. I think his mind was a beautiful thing and he just didn't have the capacity to make films better, but they're still fun and enjoyable in their own right (with or without riffing). They're just fun films for me. They're still bad movies; no matter how much I like them. Often they were bad because of budget reasons, and Ed Woods odd mind around writing and story telling, but that doesn't matter. They were still finished, released, and were bad.

    Hopefully that makes sense. I'm sorry my post offended you. That wasn't really even a thought in my mind when I wrote it.

    @DrSwank: You kind of go on in this tone like people who play video games regularly are somehow down trodden and need help. There was nothing about addiction in your points when you started squashing people who play games regularly that you do not. You also like to carelessly throw around (Edit: I mean the word) "rhetoric" a lot as if to imply people who disagree with you are wrong.

    If that isn't your intent than I guess your writing style is abrasive (I can certainly understand that- what with constantly being accused of being mean. This thread being an example of that).

    I guess my point is the generalization is what I found to be condescending. But live and let live I say, I didn't really want to argue about what you think of people who don't play games like you. That's fine. =)

    It's interesting you found me defensive in text when I was actually being thoughtful and making examples to explain how you misunderstand (in this case Giant Bomb) peoples perception and conversations of the game (which is to say they would probably describe it as a guilty pleasure- which isn't a condescending term nor am I using it to be one). I also apparently made a poor analogy (even though I thought in the chocolate creation world it was very much considered the case that oil based chocolate is lesser than milk based chocolate- I wasn't stating this as my opinion).

    I'm sorry if somehow my post came off defensive. It wasn't even written with that in mind. I understand that you like the game and that's totally fine. I would never debate that. I was rather perceiving that your enjoy-ability may stem from you having an appreciation for the coop while others distaste stems from an understanding that when playing alone, the game on it's own face, is poorly designed.

    I would probably attribute your misunderstanding of my post as poor writing on my part for which I apologize.

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    kcin

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    keywords: "New player"

    Destiny is all fun and games until you are leveling with Light, at which point grinding for gear is the only way to level up. I don't get the impression that you realize that yet, from this line:

    "Bungie has created a experience that encompasses the MMO concepts and boils them down to an experience that doesn't require the typical MMO commitments. Sure, a lot of people are grinding for gear and what have you (and complaining about it)"

    After level 25, you cannot level up by simply playing the game and doing well. You do, indeed, need to grind for gear, which has Light, with which you can level up. I very much enjoyed Destiny until I needed to get gear to level up. That is when I hated Destiny, and that is when I sold it. Make no mistake, letting people play the trial of this game is the smartest move Bungie has ever done: it deceives players into thinking the game is always as fun and rewarding as the trial (read: initial) experience. It is my opinion that the smartest thing a trial player can do is stop playing when they have exhausted the trial.

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    DrSwank

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    @kcin said:

    keywords: "New player"

    It is my opinion that the smartest thing a trial player can do is stop playing when they have exhausted the trial.

    I disagree, as I've had way more fun after I purchased the game, then any experience hitherto.

    @kcin said:

    After level 25, you cannot level up by simply playing the game and doing well. You do, indeed, need to grind for gear, which has Light, with which you can level up. I very much enjoyed Destiny until I needed to get gear to level up.

    I'm confused and curious by what you said prior though, as after you reach lvl 25, you must grind for gear with light, however, what confuses me most is why you need to progress passed lvl 25? What in the game is causing the need to push to above 25? I just unlocked strike playlists, which ups the difficulty on old strikes, which I'm super excited about, but even that caps at lvl 22. Also, can one not acquire gear simply by playing and enjoying Crucible? What counts as grinding? I presume that the use of the word "grinding" insinuates playing without having fun, thus grinding must be corollary to playing PvE content over and over again, as certainly MP doesn't count, as that content is always different, and by its nature should be always fun, should one find fun in it? Thanks for your input!

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    pyrodactyl

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    #22  Edited By pyrodactyl

    @DrSwank said:

    @kcin said:

    keywords: "New player"

    It is my opinion that the smartest thing a trial player can do is stop playing when they have exhausted the trial.

    I disagree, as I've had way more fun after I purchased the game, then any experience hitherto.

    @kcin said:

    After level 25, you cannot level up by simply playing the game and doing well. You do, indeed, need to grind for gear, which has Light, with which you can level up. I very much enjoyed Destiny until I needed to get gear to level up.

    I'm confused and curious by what you said prior though, as after you reach lvl 25, you must grind for gear with light, however, what confuses me most is why you need to progress passed lvl 25? What in the game is causing the need to push to above 25? I just unlocked strike playlists, which ups the difficulty on old strikes, which I'm super excited about, but even that caps at lvl 22. Also, can one not acquire gear simply by playing and enjoying Crucible? What counts as grinding? I presume that the use of the word "grinding" insinuates playing without having fun, thus grinding must be corollary to playing PvE content over and over again, as certainly MP doesn't count, as that content is always different, and by its nature should be always fun, should one find fun in it? Thanks for your input!

    Well, raids are in far in a way the best content in the game and to do well in the first raid on normal mode you should be at least lvl 27. Lvl 28 to be confortable in normal mode, lvl 30 for hard mode (29 if you're completely insane like we were).

    But hey, if you did a bunch of bounties when you were playing from lvl 1 to lvl 20, getting to lvl 27-28 shouldn't be hard or long. Gather 13 strange coins, buy an exotic piece from xur, preferably a helmet. Then buy one or 2 purple pieces from the vanguard and the crusible/faction vendors. You should be just about there.

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    fisk0

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    #23  Edited By fisk0  Moderator

    @DrSwank said:


    @kcin said:

    After level 25, you cannot level up by simply playing the game and doing well. You do, indeed, need to grind for gear, which has Light, with which you can level up. I very much enjoyed Destiny until I needed to get gear to level up.

    I'm confused and curious by what you said prior though, as after you reach lvl 25, you must grind for gear with light, however, what confuses me most is why you need to progress passed lvl 25? What in the game is causing the need to push to above 25? I just unlocked strike playlists, which ups the difficulty on old strikes, which I'm super excited about, but even that caps at lvl 22. Also, can one not acquire gear simply by playing and enjoying Crucible? What counts as grinding? I presume that the use of the word "grinding" insinuates playing without having fun, thus grinding must be corollary to playing PvE content over and over again, as certainly MP doesn't count, as that content is always different, and by its nature should be always fun, should one find fun in it? Thanks for your input!

    The raid is only available once you hit level 27 I think. And the post level 25 grind isn't fun, because the most gear you get when grinding has lower or no light stats than what you already have, so the progression towards leveling up is incredibly slow and not continuous (as opposed to previously in the game, where you always grow stronger by unlocking new abilities and such). Even as level 25-26 you regularly get level 6 gloves and stuff which there is no use at all for. It's even possible to level down by equipping something with lower light stats than what you have.

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    cornbredx

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    #24  Edited By cornbredx

    @DrSwank: Grinding implies the act of doing the same thing over and over. It doesn't necessarily mean anything else.

    It's like the euphemism "going back to the daily grind" when going to work (which goes back further than video games existed). It is inherently an objective term, but people do often place a negative connotation to it.

    Hopefully that helps =)

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    kcin

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    #25  Edited By kcin

    @DrSwank said:

    @kcin said:

    keywords: "New player"

    It is my opinion that the smartest thing a trial player can do is stop playing when they have exhausted the trial.

    I disagree, as I've had way more fun after I purchased the game, then any experience hitherto.

    @kcin said:

    After level 25, you cannot level up by simply playing the game and doing well. You do, indeed, need to grind for gear, which has Light, with which you can level up. I very much enjoyed Destiny until I needed to get gear to level up.

    I'm confused and curious by what you said prior though, as after you reach lvl 25, you must grind for gear with light, however, what confuses me most is why you need to progress passed lvl 25? What in the game is causing the need to push to above 25? I just unlocked strike playlists, which ups the difficulty on old strikes, which I'm super excited about, but even that caps at lvl 22. Also, can one not acquire gear simply by playing and enjoying Crucible? What counts as grinding? I presume that the use of the word "grinding" insinuates playing without having fun, thus grinding must be corollary to playing PvE content over and over again, as certainly MP doesn't count, as that content is always different, and by its nature should be always fun, should one find fun in it? Thanks for your input!

    I am only going to speak to the base game at this point, as I sold my copy before the DLC came out and have no experience with it.

    As was stated above, the raid that came with the game requires level 27 or so to play. I thoroughly exhausted the strikes, of which there are about eight total in the base game, which I am of the opinion is an incredibly paltry amount. Replaying story missions does not reward you in any way, and outside of bounties or whatever the call the daily 'remixed' story mission, they are all there is to play in PvE. I imagine, though do not know, that the DLC will require you to be even higher level to play much of its content. Therefore, much of the game's (apparent) greatest gameplay experiences are behind the level 25 barrier, and they are the impetus to level up beyond 25.

    According to the Destiny app (which I forgot to delete, apparently!), I have over 200 games and over 50 hours logged in the game in total. I acquired, through drops alone, ONE piece of Exotic gear and ONE piece of Legendary gear that fit my character build, in all of that play time. Legendary and Exotic gear is the only kind that has Light value. This isn't to say I didn't get any drops; nay, I got hundreds! However, only two pieces of literally hundreds of drops were worth anything at all.

    As this wasn't enough to get my character beyond level 25, and I didn't have any interest in counting on the game to simply drop gear for me, as you suggest is possible (and indeed it is possible, though it is not something a player can rely on), I then spent two weeks, around 2 hours a day, playing the game so as to collect reputation with a specific merchant who, after reaching level two or three or something with their particular brand of rep, I was able to buy gear that got me to level 26. I considered all of this "grinding", or rather, playing a gameplay loop in order to collect something first and foremost, not because it is the gameplay you want to experience. I did not enjoy what I was playing - the same eight strike missions, the same bounties in a barren landscape, and the same overall multiplayer experience in Crucible (which was admittedly the best part, simply because it varied on a match-by-match basis). As an aside, for what it's worth, I considered multi grinding, because I was playing it to get reputation points with merchants, and it was among one of the fastest ways to do so. Here is what I did: I bought the gear I needed to level to 26, I equipped it, and the next day - before I played one minute as a level 26 Titan - I sold it.

    I want to preface what I am going to say as not intended to be elitist. It will sound elitist, but it isn't - it's simply a matter of experience.

    New players come to Destiny and turn around, having played through level 18 or so, and say, "Destiny is fun, it doesn't suck, I don't understand the whining". They are right: they don't understand why everyone thinks it sucks, because they can't understand why. They aren't there yet. Trust me when I say I thought Destiny was fun. I loved playing it - until level 25 and above. I feel comfortable saying that most other people who feel burned by Destiny had a similar experience - though many probably made it through the unbearable after-25 grind and played the first raid - and the reason we talk about Destiny so fervently is because it was a genuinely good experience until it absolutely was not. Very few games make that hard of a shift, and it leaves an impression.

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    #26  Edited By pyrodactyl

    @kcin: You're not suppose to get legendary gear from drops. You're suppose to buy it from vendors, which doesn't take that long. You could've done at least 2/3 of the raid fine with a lvl 26 character. Probably the entire raid if others were higher level.

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    kcin

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    #27  Edited By kcin

    @pyrodactyl: How was I to know you were "supposed" to do anything in Destiny? How is anyone at this point "supposed" to know how to do anything in Destiny? Go to a Reddit? I know there are better ways to do things, now. I didn't then, because the game itself doesn't explain anything about its systems. Maybe there's even a super fast way to get rep that a player devised. I played the game as it was presented to me by the developers, and even getting reputation took an extremely long time. Working around the game was a very frustrating experience.

    This is coming from someone who, in the end, DID eventually go to Reddit to find the fastest means with which to accomplish specific leveling goals, signed up for a mailing list that notifies you when the merchant is selling rare fusion rifles, and manipulated bounty distribution by receiving and completing them at a specific late-night hour.

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    rethla

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    #28  Edited By rethla

    @DrSwank said:

    I know 343 is trying hard, but the team at Bungie is doing something special, and are doing for MMO's on console with Destiny that they did with first-person shooters on console with Halo CE. I think largely their achievements here have been over-clouded by a very staunch MMO crowd. I've never liked MMO's though, but I love this.

    That doesnt go very well with you describing how you are activly avoiding the MMO parts of Destiny and playing it like it was another Halo.

    Also people who are pulling the argument that all you did in Halo was playing the same missions over and over again but without reward. Sure alot of people did that but those missions where and still are superior to the Destiny missions with or without rewards.

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    HH

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    #29  Edited By HH

    @cornbredx: mate, entertainment isn't science, nor is it sport, there is no final score, and there are no factual results.

    does it entertain or does it not? that can only be answered per individual. you can total up ticket sales, but plenty of classics have misfired at the box office, so that's no use. you can also consult the general consensus, but since when was that reliable? your own opinion will always differ somewhere along the line, that's why it's important to check things out for yourself and make your own mind up.

    there is a question of craftsmanship, and it is easy to argue that ed wood was no craftsman, i could argue all day that peter jackson is a poor craftsman, but that's not going to make much difference to his success is it? Nor should it. If it did it would amount to me spoiling people's fun, and that's all it would amount to. i think his movies are bad, but the idea that people liking them equates to a guilty pleasure full stop, is preposterous. their priorities are different from mine, that's all.

    If my granny watches plan 9 from outer space and loves it, that's the end of the matter. me telling her it's actually a bad movie from a craftsmanship point of view is not only pointless, it's arrogant, and it's destructive - it's robbing both parties of a success.

    a guilty pleasure is when you like something that has all the hallmarks of something you don't usually like, it's an internal hypocrisy, one that is fun - and important - to recognize, it has little to do with what the general consensus is (unless that's how you make your mind up on everything), and it points out how fallible your opinions are, and how easy it is for mood and timing to change them.

    this is how entertainment works, the effect is changeable, depending on the person, depending on mood, depending on timing, and, let's not forget, depending on the influence of others. it is not, at any point, definite.

    ed wood earned his label as a bad film-maker by making very obviously sloppy work, but even so his films are not guaranteed to disappoint, nor work only in an ironic sense, nor be unintentionally hilarious. none of these things are guaranteed.

    but in the case of Destiny? which, from a craftsmanship point of view, had arguably the best mechanics in any game all year? forget it man, it will never become the thing that you and many others seem to want it to become, and what's actually more likely, speaking from personal experience, is that five or ten years from now half the people kicking up all this fuss might well have changed their minds, not about Destiny in particular, but about aspects of what they like and what they appreciate, things that, right now, seem unshakable.

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    cornbredx

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    @hh: Uh... ok.

    You have some interesting opinions there and I am acknowledging that I have read them. =)

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    #31  Edited By Evilsbane

    @hh said:

    @cornbredx:

    but in the case of Destiny? which, from a craftsmanship point of view, had arguably the best mechanics in any game all year?

    Yea you know, run to a computer, hold X fight three waves or just hold X and end mission.

    Clearly, the peak of game design.

    They sold it as Halo + WoW they deserve to be crucified for it. Even within what they had made, which would still be unacceptable due to how they sold it, they could have done such Simple Basic shit to at least make it somewhat less of a rinse repeat mess.

    - Different Level patrols, same areas just throw Ogres and Wizards everywhere

    - NPC's with unique quests in the Patrol areas

    - WAY more public events with higher frequency

    - A Story, Period.

    If Destiny didn't have coop it would have nothing looking at the "Story Missions" as a campaign its pathetic. It is fun to "play" and it looks nice, outside that it is a sad shadow of something that could have been riding the lighting all the way to the bank.

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    HH

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    They sold it as Halo + WoW they deserve to be crucified for it.

    i never heard that line, so i guess i don't deserve to be disappointed for believing it.

    by "crucified" i'm imagining you mean something along the lines of the apology made by gearbox over Aliens? is that fair to say? is that a comparison you would make?

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    @rethla said:

    @DrSwank said:

    I know 343 is trying hard, but the team at Bungie is doing something special, and are doing for MMO's on console with Destiny that they did with first-person shooters on console with Halo CE. I think largely their achievements here have been over-clouded by a very staunch MMO crowd. I've never liked MMO's though, but I love this.

    That doesnt go very well with you describing how you are activly avoiding the MMO parts of Destiny and playing it like it was another Halo.

    Also people who are pulling the argument that all you did in Halo was playing the same missions over and over again but without reward. Sure alot of people did that but those missions where and still are superior to the Destiny missions with or without rewards.

    I never said that I was actively avoiding the MMO parts. I don't like MMO's though, as I've tried many over the last decade, but I like how Bungie has siphoned and truncated the MMO parts to appeal to a non-MMO gamer.

    Regarding Halo and its missions, I think your memory and nostalgia of Halo's missions may be covered with rose-tinted glasses. I just played the Halo MCC campaigns with my wife, there are many similarities between Destiny and Halo, that is obvious, but to say that Destiny's missions are worse is false. There is currently more of Halo, thus Halo has been developed for over a decade, but even with that long development, I've enjoyed my time with Destiny far more than any Halo moment, but this too is subjective, as is your opinion about it. I think after a decade of development, Destiny will be far and away a superior game than Halo, but that's me speculating.

    Regarding the lack of loot and Halo, well, I've always wanted Halo to be more of a customized journey with loot, so Destiny is giving me the Halo I've always wanted. :) Cheers matey, thanks for the response!

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    @kcin said:

    @pyrodactyl: How was I to know you were "supposed" to do anything in Destiny? How is anyone at this point "supposed" to know how to do anything in Destiny? Go to a Reddit? I know there are better ways to do things, now. I didn't then, because the game itself doesn't explain anything about its systems. Maybe there's even a super fast way to get rep that a player devised. I played the game as it was presented to me by the developers, and even getting reputation took an extremely long time. Working around the game was a very frustrating experience.

    This is coming from someone who, in the end, DID eventually go to Reddit to find the fastest means with which to accomplish specific leveling goals, signed up for a mailing list that notifies you when the merchant is selling rare fusion rifles, and manipulated bounty distribution by receiving and completing them at a specific late-night hour.

    I think the same could be said for any game and launch with complex systems. Another example of this is Dark Souls 2, or probably any MMO for that matter, not that I would know. But, with any game, the longer the game is out, the more these things are known. But yes, I think games in general tend to suffer from over-sight of explaining certain features to the player, thus FAQs and walkthroughs exist. I'm not defending Bungie's actions, as much as I'm trying to put it in perspective, as all devs suffer from this. Playing through Shadows of Mordor this year, I had the same problem. Whether Bungie purposefully omitted this information to confuse players knowing that it would prolong gametime and instill frustration is unknown, but I'd like to think they just assumed people would figure it out, which the community at large has, and arguably, the people who have figured it out probably enjoyed the challenge of figuring it out, or being among the first to figure it out. Just my 2 cents.

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    #35  Edited By pyrodactyl

    @kcin: Eh, maybe it's because I like figuring out systems and I've been playing games for a long time but with a minimal amount of research I immediately knew what the best/most viable way to lvl 26-27 was. Destiny's systems might not be well explained but they're not that complicated either.

    To level up beyond lvl 20 you need light from gear. To access the raid you need to be lvl 26-27. For that you need legendary gear or exotic gear. The most reliable way to get those is to buy it since you already know the drop rate is terrible. To buy legendary gear you need rep lvl 2 with the vendor. The best way to get rep is to do bounties. When you have the rep you just need the marks which you can get by doing crusible or vanguard playlist.

    Not that hard to figure out. Compared to the convoluted nonsense in games like demon's souls, Destiny's systems are the most straight forward thing ever.

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    jaycrockett

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    @DrSwank: You mentioned co-op and your wife, but Destiny doesn't have local co-op. Do you have two Xbox's in your house? Or you're playing online with your nephew and swapping out with your wife?

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    You should play more games.

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    spraynardtatum

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    #38  Edited By spraynardtatum

    Destiny is a memorable scam.

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    rethla

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    @DrSwank said:

    Regarding Halo and its missions, I think your memory and nostalgia of Halo's missions may be covered with rose-tinted glasses. I just played the Halo MCC campaigns with my wife, there are many similarities between Destiny and Halo, that is obvious, but to say that Destiny's missions are worse is false. There is currently more of Halo, thus Halo has been developed for over a decade, but even with that long development, I've enjoyed my time with Destiny far more than any Halo moment, but this too is subjective, as is your opinion about it. I think after a decade of development, Destiny will be far and away a superior game than Halo, but that's me speculating.

    Well all to their own ofc. but my time in Destiny made me buy my first microsoft console in over 10 years just becouse Destiny slightly reminded me of how good Halo was. Now im playing the MCC and im perfectly happy with passing Destiny to the shelf forever. The mission designs, the weapons, the vehicles, the on same screen coop, the music, the grenades and their wacky physics and chain reactions. If you are purly looking for FPS gameplay you dont ever need to play any other game than Halo CE.

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    @rethla said:
    @DrSwank said:

    Regarding Halo and its missions, I think your memory and nostalgia of Halo's missions may be covered with rose-tinted glasses. I just played the Halo MCC campaigns with my wife, there are many similarities between Destiny and Halo, that is obvious, but to say that Destiny's missions are worse is false. There is currently more of Halo, thus Halo has been developed for over a decade, but even with that long development, I've enjoyed my time with Destiny far more than any Halo moment, but this too is subjective, as is your opinion about it. I think after a decade of development, Destiny will be far and away a superior game than Halo, but that's me speculating.

    Well all to their own ofc. but my time in Destiny made me buy my first microsoft console in over 10 years just becouse Destiny slightly reminded me of how good Halo was. Now im playing the MCC and im perfectly happy with passing Destiny to the shelf forever. The mission designs, the weapons, the vehicles, the on same screen coop, the music, the grenades and their wacky physics and chain reactions. If you are purly looking for FPS gameplay you dont ever need to play any other game than Halo CE.

    Halo 2 Anniversary remaster is pretty awesome too I must say. :)

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    @DrSwank: You mentioned co-op and your wife, but Destiny doesn't have local co-op. Do you have two Xbox's in your house? Or you're playing online with your nephew and swapping out with your wife?

    Yeah we bought another Xbox One once I learned that if you buy digital games on Xbox Live, you can play ONE COPY on TWO XBOXES, SIMULTANEOUSLY!

    So we bought the Destiny DG edition for $67. Works out to about $33.50 for each person, and that includes both expansions. :):)

    Gotta love this new Xbox Policy!

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