Okay first off, I am sorry if this is not the right place to put this as I don't see a specific Game Discussion, I will assume General Discussion is the same. If not, move this if possible!

Anyways, I have put a LOT of time into the Crucible since I got the game a few days ago, a good 15-ish hours and... good lord I suck. Normally I suck at a Multiplayer game for the first 10-15 games, but after a good 30 games I still am getting absolutely destroyed even when playing with friends. I am playing the game on the PS4 and as a comparison, in Battlefield 4, Halo 4, and Killzone: Shadowfall (All games either on the same system or in Halo 4's case, in the same style as Destiny) I can generally get a 3.0 KDRatio whilst helping my team and all of this in under 20 hours of playtime. As another comparison, Killzone: Shadowfall was my very first Killzone Multiplayer game.

Why is this? What am I doing wrong? I am currently level 19 Voidwalker Warlock with a rather decent Auto-Rifle, but the auto-rifle seems completely useless. Even when hitting the target, they kill me with the same weapon in half the time (this is while shooting at the head in both cases). 90% of the time I am fighting against level 24's and I am beginning to this this may be due to both a level/gear issue more than a skill issue. I hit the target, I hit their heads, but unless it is one of the Secondaries (Shotgun, Sniper, Fusion Rifle), I can't seem to kill them before they kill me, even if I fire and hit them first. My grenades seem to do nothing, while nearly all the enemies seem to kill me within half a second of it going off. If I use any of my currently 3 grenade types, they seem to take minimal damage (around half of their shields) in direct hits.

Has anyone else had this issue? Is it due to possible network issues on my end? Anyone have any basic tips that I may be overlooking?

@captplaceholder: welcome! The giantbomb forums are a splendid place.

I'm sorry but I don't have destiny and I suck at FPSs. But from playing the beta and hearing folks talk, in the early levels of crucible gear may be very uneven. Some folks might just have a vastly better weapon that you. So as a back up plan you can always assume/blame any deaths on some dude with a uber gun

Your level of knowledge of the:

Maps

The classes you don't play as (their health, movement speed, abilities)

Non communicative teamwork and clan teamwork

is not as good as it was in the other games you have played. You will improve over time as you get better at the above 3.

I've actually done rather well in PvP. Got a good handcannon and auto rifle out of it. I really wonder about the stats in the game. I've had zero problems killing dudes 10 levels higher than me(but that works both ways). But now I'm level 20 and my everything is better. I did have a ton of mutual kills. The melee doesn't seem to hit instantly and I got a lot of cheap kills with the ol' dump clip then melee. Even if they killed me the melee damage would get them as soon as I died. So I don't know. Is all of your equipment up to your level? If not, its pretty easy to get some gray and green drops from exploring or just a couple of strikes.

The worst part of the Crucible right now is the netcode. You will see a lot of postmortem kills. I have melee'd dudes twice and had the second hit register a full 2 seconds later, after they had already turned around and shotgunned me to death, then they died. This is really strange coming from Bungie, seeing as how most of the Halo games have run buttery smooth, with melee and headshots registering instantly with zero hiccups. Beyond that, map knowledge and nailing down a proper loadout is important. As a warlock, make sure you get as much armor as you can through your skills (damage and health is normalized in the Crucible, skills are not). Agility and recovery are fine, but pale in comparison to the benefits of armor. You might want to try switching to the sunsinger subclass and get fireborn, it is an amazing tool for warlocks since almost no one expects you to revive on the spot, you can kill everyone with their backs turned. Be warned though, it is the 24th skill you get, in a line of 28.

It can be very frustrating, and if you are actively being annoyed by it I'd just ignore the PvP all together, at least until they fix the lag issues and balance some of the weapons (looking at you, shotguns and fusion rifles).

Yeah, lag and better weapons i havn't played since like level 15, i'm 24 now.

It does seem like you'll have a better time in PVP once you get to a higher level although that shouldn't matter. Once I started using the fusion rifle up close and the scout rife at range I started to at least remain in the middle of the pack during pvp. I even managed to get the top spot one time which is kinda amazing since I never play very much competitive mutiplayer. Also make sure you keep tabs on the radar since if you know someone is coming it's easier to react to them.

The Destiny beta was the first time I put any time into a FPS multiplayer. Needless to say, I was relentlessly murdered over and over.

So maybe I'm blaming the wrong thing, but sometimes I get the feeling a fair chunk of people are using things like the CronusMax.

Things of that ilk basically allow people to use keyboard & mouse to play console games, Destiny included. So just puttin' it out there, if you feel certain people are just getting a bead on you a *little* too quickly, things like this do exist and there are no current easy ways of detecting them.

Thats some first class denial

I normally suck at PvP and very rarely engage with it in most games, but I've found I've been doing surprisingly well with this game's PvP.

Having a general knowledge of the maps helps, but I think the big thing is knowing how to utilize your class' strengths and knowing which weapons are effective for you.

My go to weapon is usually a fusion rifle or shotgun + melee. Both weapons can one shot opponents when used properly, but a follow up melee can be used to finish them off. (Sniper rifles can also one shot, but only with a headshot and I've found there aren't many good opportunities to use them on the PvP maps.) Honestly, I find primary weapons mostly useless. They take too many shots to bring down an opponent compared to special weapons and special ammo is everywhere. I'll occasionally use my hand cannon when I'm not at the proper range or situation to use my secondary, but they feel more like a backup weapon than an actual primary in PvP. That being said, I've certainly lost in gun fights to assault rifle users.

But you need to know how to use your class specific melee, grenades, and super as well. I've only really played a Hunter, and usually prefer the Bladedancer class. Blink Strike with the fast recharge is great, since almost always have a powerful melee attack with some decent range (even in the air). I generally pick the fusion grenade, because it sticks to enemies, meaning as long as you don't miss it's a guaranteed kill. Te bladedance super is also pretty godly. Also, I like to use the Blink jump, because although it's kind of crappy as an actual jump, it can actually be pretty handy in a fight. (Assuming you don't teleport yourself off a ledge...) That may not help a Warlock, but hopefully you see what I mean.

Also, while weapons do not scale, you should still pay attention to the stats and modifiers on a weapon, because they do make a difference. A sniper rifle with 300 attack won't do any more innate damage than one with 60, but if it has twice the impact it will do more per shot, which will make a difference in how fast they go down. A shotgun with decreased spread and decent range will mean you can do more damage at a farther range than point blank.

That makes no sense. A keyboard and mouse wouldn't help you at all in a console shooter. The controls are designed for a controller, so even if you were somehow using a mouse the game is still built to handle with a controller. With the way aim assist works, the way turning works, and just the way the game handles playing with a mouse would actually feel off if you're used to playing on a PC.

Also, give me a break. If anyone is using something like this it's probably less than 1% of players, not a valid excuse for anything.

I jumped in for the first time today and was in the top 2 or 3 in the first five games. Mostly 1st and 2nd place. It doesn't seem that hard. Maybe you need better guns?

stats of weapons don't matter in crucible. Sure , if someone has like an exotic with a crazy effect thats one thing, but 95% of what others have are just better dmg/defense than you for the most part- and that is normalized and doesn't affect pvp at all. Until Iron Banner makes its way into the game, anyway.

Just familiarize yourself with the other classes more, and maybe try different builds yourself, you might find something else works better. Also: PLEASE actually go for heavy ammo. I don't have any idea why, but at least 50%+ games I get in no one cares about heavy ammo at all, and I'm always the only one with it and just get crazy killing sprees its SUPER dumb.

The goal is to shoot the other guys quicker.

@pause422: Attack and defense stats don't matter, but all the other stats on a gun still matter. Stuff like reload and magazine are obvious, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that that the impact stat affects the damage per bullet of the gun, and that is not normalized in PvP. And higher level guns don't necessarily have more impact.

And yeah, I have noticed people completely ignoring heavy ammo sometimes, even when they're right next to the crate. It's not always worth it to run toward it if you risk getting killed in the process, but it's dumb to ignore it completely.

I'm never that good at competitive multiplayer games so me getting wrecked here and there isn't a surprise for me. For me I found a combination of Assault Rifle and shotgun, with whatever heavy weapon you like better, works really well. For the assault rifle I always aim at their heads and I continue moving side to side; I found that by doing that it makes me a hard to hit target since me strafing is screwing up their aim. With the shotgun I just sprint head first at an enemy and shotgun the hell out of them. If they see me coming I always make sure to slide while running since 7 times out of 10 they end up missing me leaving them wide open.

Also, shotgun + melee in close quarters destroys a lot of players. If you have a chance to use the Sunsinger subclass I'd give it a go. You unlock a melee ability that burns them over time and a sticky grenade (I've been getting so many postmortem kills it's become super ridiculous).

Okay. I will give you a break. I will give you your <1% stat.

That said, links like this (http://controllermax.com/precision-mouse-keyboard-control/) describe how these devices compensate for the certain kinds of way aim assist/handling work (on a per-game basis) to ensure you don't feel too 'off' when using a mouse.

Just making the point these things do exist and do account for what you had mentioned (how well they account for it, I couldn't speak to - but they do address it). Your 1% stat might still be accurate. And you're probably right that I was too quick to blame. However, I wanted to let the OP know of things like this. I hope that's a fair remark.

I've been playing almost exactly the same way I play Halo and have been having great success doing just that. I've generally been sticking with pulse rifles for PvP. It feels a lot like the BR from Halo which is my go to weapon there. Three headshots is generally a kill not accounting for random class abilities and the like. Using the pulse or scout rifle is generally a good way to get mid to long range battles to go your way, and then use the fusion rifle or shotgun to cover your short range fights. On maps such as Bastion or First Light I'll switch my secondary to a sniper to cover the greater distances.

Also as others have said be sure to grab heavy ammo when it won't get you killed. I don't know why no one grabs it, but the heavy machine gun will help you absolutely tear through people. If I get heavy ammo I am practically guaranteed a solid spree.

Tonight was the first night where it felt like the netcode was being terrible to me. If shotgun or melee fights were going against you that is definitely a possible cause. Good luck on improving your game. I'm sure you'll pick it up at some point.

@kain55: So it wasn't just me? I feel like the lag has been pretty minimal for me thus far, but it definitely seemed noticeably worse today. I figured it was just my connection acting up.

The opposite can be said for me. I've never been a big fan of multiplayer so I was hesitant to try the Crucible in Destiny. But when I was in the beta I was like "ah what the heck, I have some bounties there, might as well try it" then I was hooked. Not only was did I enjoy it, but I was almost always around top three of the team. I think the whole 'levels and gear do not take into account" really helped in making it seem fair and how well you do depends on your skill and your knowledge of the maps. When I tried the Iron Banner during the beta I was absolutely destroyed because I was still using old gear while people had much better weapons and armour.

As a level 10 with a Pulse Rifle, I've come in the top two members of my team in every game with an average ~2 for 1 KDR. It's pretty easy.

EDIT: Oh, and as others have said, the latency is fucking insaaaaane. Like, there's no rubber banding or weirdness in movements, but sometimes there is over a second between where I know someone is dead (they have no health) and they actually die on my screen. It's bananas.

EDIT2: All the people commenting here don't seem to realise level doesn't matter. In most of the game modes (and in both of the two I have unlocked so far) gear is balanced to do flat rates based on the weapon type. Gear and level shouldn't have any real effect, maybe the class abilites you have unlocked might still though.

Last time I played PVP there was one player who would take almost no damage and was owning everyone. Eventually I just had to be an asshole and quit the game as I totally lost interest in playing.

@captplaceholder: level/gear issue. Gear specifically. Level advantages are suppressed in the Crucible, but gear isn't, so you are getting pounded with way better guns than you have, and while it might not look like 19 v 24 is that big of a gap, in Destiny level and gear disparity is huge even just one level apart, let alone 5. So I am pretty sure you will do better in Crucible when you have more gear and are 24-27 yourself.

Also make note of the impact stat on guns. A hand cannon with impact thru the roof will one shot headshot folks, or 2-3 in the body. Also shotguns and scout rifles with high impact, sniper rifles as well. Impact affects the damage per bullet, and pulse rifles and auto rifles typicall have weak impact compared to the ones listed above.

@dominemesis:

Yep, it is definitely the weapons. I managed to find a Lower Fire-Rate Auto-Rifle that has more Stability and I have been doing a lot better now (Top 2-3 on most games) and this is while I have been sick as a dog the past few days. While I still don't like the over-reliance on the secondary weapons than the primary ones, the Shotgun/Melee with Blink/slide is very useful.

I had a thoroughly unenjoyable first experience with the Crucible, but some of it stems from the fact that I was working off the assumption that multiplayer would be similar to Titanfall--which it isn't at all. Also, I started to actually pay attention to the motion tracker, which made it much easier to see the approach of an enemy and figure out what weapon would be best. I wound up having a lot of fun with it, once I started being a little more cautious and using my powers more.

So I went back and recorded a few clips of what Destiny multiplayer is like. Really not sure how Bungie have flopped so hard with the netcode in Destiny when Halo was always so flawless.

I sometimes love to play me some competitive multiplayer, but in Destiny I don't. I've tried all the modes and in every single one of them I start of great (after 2/3 minutes I'm either in first or second place), but slowly I get killed more and more. I can't put my finger on it why this happens. Most of the time I get killed in 1 hit, especially when the heavy ammo drops and peeps get their special ability.

Everyone seems to be using the same (spray) gun as well, maybe that's the big secret. Either way, I hate it. No fun there for me.

At first I was really digging the PvP but I'm really starting to turn against it in the past few days.

@bollard: I would recommend not using a pulse rifle. Switch to an auto. Also use your secondary weapon if possible. Shotgun or fusion. Also if you are good with a scout rifle try that. Pulse rifles don't do enough damage quick enough. So you wont really get many kills with them against higher level players.

You know.... originally i loathed the Crucible. First time in just got walked over by level 24 players. But like.... after maybe 7 matches I just memorized the map a bit, fallowed along other players, focused on the radar and just anticipated when someone would walk into frame. I'd use melee a lot and the shotgun. I would get like top 2 or top 3 in these matches. Also I had a bounty for melee kills so I just did that instead of actually focused on well I was playing..... the slap fighting of Destiny is kinda ridiculious.

Also, Sunslinger I found better then Warlock Voidwalker. Later the guns and gernades do fire damage. I'd see just numbers of the guys ticking off behind walls or they would just instant kill on melee attacks.

But yeah, memorizing the map helps. But also the game has terrible match making and a lot of unbalanced teams in these games. Guys with ridiculous guns coming in, it's not very well handled.

@crithon: That's because most of those guns are heavily nerfed in PvP. For example, I have an awesome exotic sniper rifle that regenerates ammo and is completely badass in PvE, but if I take it into PvP it does no more damage than any other sniper rifle and the regenerating ammo is almost a disadvantage, because I start with zero ammo whenever I die, unlike normal special weapons that let you keep your remaining special ammo. (And I can't pick up special ammo to replenish it either.)

If you're still using white weapons then you are at a bit of a disadvantage, but once you've got a few green weapons with decent skills you're on a relatively even playing field with end game players.

@zeik: You know, I'm always unclear if something is nerfed or not in this game. I'd be happy to hear all the weapon stats are set to default on crucible. Just something about when I play it always comes off as something is more over powered then the most average player.

At least there's slap fighting.

@crithon: Right now all advantages are disabled in crucible. So basically everything does its base damage. You will see on the mode selection it will say Level Advantages: Disabled. This is referring to player level and gear level. So if you see one that ever says Enabled, I'd stay out of it unless you are stacked with all purple gear.

@sterling: Ooookay, now I'm bothered that I'm being ranked in top 3 and 2 in these crucible matches since I've always hated Halo's controls..... Now I have no idea what's up or down, cats and dogs living together. I'm going back to Quake Live and Unreal Tournement 2004

You should try shooting that guy.

@captplaceholder: I dont know if you can see any of my medals or whatever, but if you can, here's my profile so you know that I'm decent at crucible: https://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/5818370 . Hopefully the rest of this isn't patronizing. I know you played Halo 4 multiplayer (and I haven't, btw), but maybe it's not the same kind of multiplayer as 2 and 3, which is why you're not having much luck.

I kind of don't want to give out this info, because it means there'll be more good Crucible players, haha, but oh well.

The reason I'm good at Crucible is because I was good at Halo multiplayer. The basic skills you learn in Halo (at least in 2 and 3) are the same ones you'll need for Destiny. Basically, it all has to do with your radar and your map knowledge. The most likely reason you're dying in 1v1 situations is because the other person knew where you were going to be before you were there, which meant that they started shooting you in the face before you started shooting them in the face. There are two main reasons they were faster, 1) because they used the radar and knew which direction you were coming from and approximately how fast you were moving and 2) because they knew all of the points of ingress to their and your position. With this, they could approximate when they'd see you and where, which meant their gun was ready before yours. Depending on whether you were playing an objective-based mode or not, they may also have guessed your intentions (capturing a zone, for example), which means they knew what you might do (throw a grenade into the zone or use a super).

People keep complaining that PvP is unbalanced, which it is (sort of), but it's not so unbalanced that you can't do well with the proper tactics. Here are some tips beyond the general lesson above:

1) Bungie made maps that have a lot of verticality, so your radar may show people on top of you when they're actually under you, or vice versa. Exploit this to confuse your enemies.

2) The radar has three distances, by watching how fast they change, you can tell how fast your opponent is moving.

3) *Crouching and moving slowly (or staying still) makes you invisible to radar*. I can't stress this enough. If you think you're going to be ambushed, hide and crouch. If you want to disappear from radar, sit still and crouch.

4) Don't make predictable decisions. Everyone runs into a capture point and throws a grenade. Everyone stands on a capture point while enemies are running towards them etc. If *everyone* is doing something, don't.

5) Memorize the heavy weapon spawns, camp them when they're announced and use a machine gun. You can kill almost 10 players with the right machine gun, but only 2 or so with a rocket launcher. The machine gun is less obvious to players (they'll know if you are carrying around a rocket launcher), and so your damage output will be unpredictable.

6) Use a shotgun, and always melee immediately afterwards.

7) Don't jump and try to shoot unless you have to. Jumping makes your movement predictable and it's hard to aim while you're falling.

8) Memorize the maps. I know this is obvious, but it's just very, very important. But what is more important is memorize all the points of ingress into every position on the map. If there seem to be too many points where you are, then GTFO, because you won't be able to predict where you're going to be shot from.

9) Watch how other classes work on youtube or something. I've been killed by warlocks and titans because I didn't know their abilities, so I just started shooting them when I should've ran. Part of the balance problem in Destiny is that it's not possible to play with fully leveled up classes without, well, leveling them. Part of the reason DOTA is so well balanced is because you can learn the capabilities of all the various heroes without having to level them or buy them. Because Destiny doesn't allow this (and because they do a very poor job of physically differentiating classes), you'll invariably be surprised by abilities you didn't know existed. You can somewhat remedy this by watching videos.

10) Play objective based modes that make player locations and behaviour more predictable. I hate deathmatch, because people camp, and they do all sorts of weird shit that makes it really hard to know where they might be or what they might be doing (besides trying to kill you). I suspect this is the reason that Counter-strike is objective based. Objective-based modes give, well, objectives, and so you can usually predict what most enemies want to do, and where they are. Meanwhile, you can use the fact that there are objectives to do things that are unpredictable, like getting the fuck out of a control point even though you haven't captured it.

11) Hide. Go somewhere you expect people to show up, hide, and then surprise them with a shotgun blast to the face.

12) Remember how much damage you can produce through all your various weapons and abilities, know the fastest way to deal damage based on your proximity to the target and their fastest way. Here they are, in no particular order: 1) Primary weapon (medium to long range, medium damage), 2) Secondary weapon (shotgun, short range, high damage), 3) Grenade (medium damage, any range, time delay) 4) Melee (short range, high damage) , 5) Special Melee (short to medium range, high damage), 6) Heavy Weapon (medium to long range, high damage), 7) Super (varying ranges, high damage). So, for example, I tend to want to close the distance to my enemies, so I use shotgun + melee mostly. But at medium range, I'll use grenade + primary weapon or primary weapon + special melee.

13) Some supers have a shitty, unskippable animation (Golden Gun, for example) that will get you killed if anyone sees you use it.

Sorry this ended up being so long, haha, but I couldn't stop once I started.

I had this one game where I lead my entire team and did amazing, and man I thought I had finally made it. I was level 20 now and all the bad experiences were a thing of the past. I was going to mop the floor with every opponent. My friend who was the same level as I was, began talking about how nothing was working for him, he just kept getting killed and he was so frustrated. He was on my team. I didn't know why he was doing so bad, but my main concern was finishing this awesome match I was in. It was great. I felt bad for him though, knowing how frustrating that can be. And then I played the next match, and for two hours or so after that, I tried and tried but could not do anything against anyone. People would come up behind me out of nowhere, when I swore my radar was clear. I was shooting people first, who then killed me with one shot...with an auto rifle? In the middle of all this I was disconnected from a match I was actually winning, due to a cattle error. I blamed myself, not wanting to shirk the burden of my inferior skill level, but I think there is an additional explanation: poor net code, servers, lag, hit detection. I kept thinking guys had awesome weapons and awesome armor, I mean I couldn't get them down and they would kill me instantly. Guns like the fusion rifle or heavy weapons are of course going to kill you quickly, but anything else leaves me questioning the game mechanics. When it's in your favor though, it's great!

@resonantpictures: Honestly, I don't think there's anything really wrong with the mechanics. I have noticed some lag with kills and such, and maybe that's the problem, but it's not the weapon balance. I was doing well in the Crucible at level 10.

I have noticed the same thing. Every single time I spot a player on the map on my screen, before I can even move in to aim on them I'm dead. 10 out of 10 times. Maybe 2 out of 30 times I can actually get a few shots off at the guy, but I seem to be one-shotted or at the least killed very quickly despite my efforts and hits on the guy. Their health goes down miniscule amounts, most of the time not even denting their shield, while I get shot once and am down to 1/4 health, with shields completely gone if I'm not one shotted. And this was as a level 24 warlock.

They aim super super super fast, and it does feel like they are using keyboard and mouse, because my thing is.. It takes time to actually zoom in to aim, then move the control sticks into position. Every single person doesn't just BAM! instantly kill you, I mean they are having to do the same thing that you are.

So something is clearly off. Either the game is severely unbalanced or I am missing something.

The other thing is how ridiculously unbalanced things are level wise. When I was level 6 I would be pitted against level 20, 31, 32, etc. This is absolutely ridiculous because these guys have far more experience than you as a player, forget about the character XP. As a player.

The other thing is what I notice is that almost every time I have been in Crucible my team (not me, my team) always loses. ALWAYS. For this to always happen every time seems very strange, because I am but one player on the team.

Something to me smells fishy. I agree with the topic creator that most multiplayer games after a while you get the hang of it and start getting kills. It's not like that in Destiny.

Exactly, it takes time to zoom in.

When Shotguns and Fusion Rifles are one-hitters at close range (and if the entire Fusion Rifle clip hits you), it's not always smart to AIM at CLOSE RANGE.

Use a Fusion Rifle/Shotgun and fire from the hip. You'll understand what you were doing wrong almost immediately.

I for one am a god In crucible I honestly doesn't matter about gear only your two main weapons of choice for me mines a hand cannon and shotgun as secondary with a mg as my heavy. With any handcannon you need practice shot guns just crouch and go around corners also the shield thing is an ability two of the three classes have I've found that the hunter is the weakest class for me to use in the crucible hence, I'm not a stealthy player I shoot 2 times that's all it takes. Also there are no advantages of being higher lvl in crucible unless in iron banner everyone is a equal Stat wise just get the thorn handcannon

As it is the one I use. It absolutely dominates in crucible.

If there's any tips that new players need or just some practice contact me on 360 as shadow wind70 hope I was of some help.

Really? You're a "god" in crucible? Because it looks like you have a 0.93 KD, and you yourself admit to using the most overpowered, easy to use weapon in the game. Please don't bump incredibly old threads to brag when you have nothing brag about.

@ll_exile_ll: Eh... I don't think KD matters that much? I guess it depends on what you think matters, but for example, I went flawless this weekend while getting the most kills on my team consistently, and my KD for that week was like 1.0 or somewhere near there. Going flawless is cool, helping your team get there is cool, who cares what the KD says at the end of it? My all time KD is below 1.0 for absolute sure because I was bad at Crucible at first. I've been enjoying sniping a lot recently and your KD naturally goes up as a sniper. I often end a match with 2.5 + KD when I do that, even though I get less kills and less points overall than when I end with a KD of 0.9.

Agree with the rest of your post though.

I'd argue that it matters quite a bit; just look at the correlation between my K:D / K+A:D and my Win:Loss percentiles (I only played solo as well. I don't mean that as a brag, just that there wasn't some inherent communication/coordination advantage boosting my winrate). Less deaths means less points for the enemy team. Going 10-2 while giving your team 1200 points and the enemy team 220 is inherently more valuable than going 19-17 and gaining 2100 points but giving away 1800. Made up numbers, but you get the idea.

Again, I am in no way trying to brag; I just think most people have the misconception that point totals are all that matter, when point differential is what actually matters.

I'm sorry, I'm trying not to laugh. I consider myself to be pretty bad a Crucible, and I have a 1.01 K/D. It also took me a minute to figure out how old this thread was, come on dude, how did you even find this from back then.

@ajamafalous: For sure I understand giving the enemy team points is bad. But that's why I added 'it depends what you think matters'. I just took a look, my KD is .98. Also not bragging here, but going flawless in style every week. I'm not being carried or anything.

I'm not dismissing the argument that giving points to the enemy is bad, but I do think people put way too much emphasis on KD. KD does not reflect overall skill. I've been in Iron Banner matches where we lost because people didn't know when to control which points on the map for instance. It's fine if your KD is 1.8, you're still going to lose if they have more control points.

The pinnacle is Trials. People on LFG asking for 1.5 minimum KD is hilarious. Again, also not bragging, but I go flawless without that. It's 3 on 3. You only need to kill them once after all. If you're asking for 1.5, you're basically asking for people that don't close the match down and let people be revived.

Some matches I have a KD of 8.0 in Trials. Others I'm like .2. It doesn't matter. The teamwork matters. The ones where I got all the kills were the matches where my teammates lined them up for me to snipe, or got all of them weak for me to pick off. That doesn't make me the best player in my team.

I just find it bad that everyone hates on the thorn its getting nerfed so its not so easy to use plus why is it that there are so many try-hrds on Osiris I mean seriously haven't they been to the light house enough ,I think they should make it to where you can only complete one passage per week on each character so as to give other people a chance to get to the light house

Punctuation, my good man. Punctuation.

I started playing Destiny not too long ago. I jumped into the Crucible when I was level 7 or 8 and did horribly. I would much rather jump into it when I've reached the level cap and have some solid weapons to use.