Diablo 2 Resurrected

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ClarkPete

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#1  Edited By ClarkPete

Don't know about other members of this forum, but for me this an awesome move, as we will get a modernized version of the original D2, where every aspect of the game and mechanic still stays the same, but with todays graphics and better quality of life in game.

Also a great way to hype up for Diablo 4 in the meantime.

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cikame

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I didn't know they were going 3D with the graphics and i feel it loses something in the process, there are quite a few Diablo style games with modern graphics, what makes D2 special to me is how it looks and feels, how the sprites move, how enemies collapse or explode when they die, the "drawn" nature of its backgrounds, changing its entire art style even if its pretty faithful feels like too much.
Apparently you can toggle the old and new graphics, but i don't think they've shown that yet and i'm concerned about what that mode looks like.
I'm also expecting Blizzard to mess it up in other ways, either by hindering your ability to play the original game like they did with Warcraft 3, or make it always online like D3 or some other stupid ideas.
I'm not convinced yet.

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Judoboy

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#3  Edited By Judoboy

@cikame:

Here's a good graphics comparison video - Diablo 2 - Graphics Comparison - Original vs Resurrected

I listened to some of the interviews and I'm optimistic that Blizzard learned from the W3:Reforged debacle. It's the same engine underneath so you can play the entire game and multiplayerwith the old graphics if you want I believe. The game is also playable offline like the original. As somebody who played a ton of Diablo 1 and not much Diablo 2, but had tons of friends pour their lives into that game I'm stoked to play it.

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TheRealTurk

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Well, I'm way more excited for Resurrected than I am for Diablo 4. From what I gather, they pretty much didn't touch anything about the underlying gameplay experience outside of some QoL stuff like a shared stash. That's smart, since Diablo 2 was already pretty damn solid from a gameplay perspective.

Diablo 4 by comparison, I keep getting less and less excited about. I'm not interested in any form of shared world MMO-lite crap like they seem to be going for. I know that they think it's going to be this awesome shared experience for players to feel awesome together. What's actually going to happen is that users with stupid names like "GiantEPeen69xxx" are going to follow you around like a lost puppy and generally disrupt the experience.

@cikame As far as I understand it from listening to their presentation, the new version is basically running the original D2 under the hood with some small tweaks to movement to allow for controller support. I think where the disconnect comes in is that the new one runs at 60fps whereas the original was at something like 25fps. In order to be able to swap seamlessly back and forth and make the gameplay the same, they need to synch the new graphics to match the timing of the original, which is why some of the animations look a little funky.

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bigsocrates

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I played Diablo 2 a lot and liked it a lot but I'm kind of curious as to why people want to go back.

The game didn't have a substantial story, the loot was cool but not up to the standards of the current state of the genre, and while the character classes were well made I thought many of the enemies were sort of boring.

I guess I feel like these games don't have super exciting gameplay mechanics or stories so they don't age that well, but maybe it's because I never played it at a high level.

I may pick this up and mess around with it once it's cheap but for me personally despite the fact that I really liked Diablo 2 when it was released I am not itching to play it again.

Happy for those that are that it looks like Activision is doing this right. Or at least saying the right things.

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TheRealTurk

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@bigsocrates: For me, it comes down to a few things:

1. I admit there's a heavy dose of nostalgia at play. I would've just turned 16 when Diablo 2 came out and it was the game everyone in my social circle was playing. There were a lot of late nights getting up to crazy hijinks and next-day arguments about who ganked who first to start the big PvP fight over the loot. Good times.

2. It kind of builds into #1, but as someone who was waiting years for another Diablo game, Diablo 3 just . . . wasn't it. Regardless of whether it was a good game in isolation (a point I swing back and forth on that point a lot), it was a lousy Diablo game. Everything was too colorful, there was no interesting loot, the character classes were largely interchangeable gameplay wise, and there were almost no interesting decisions to make when leveling since the game handed you skills and invested stat points for you. It was boring, design-to-the-median gameplay at its worst.

3. I'm sort of hankering to go back to something dark. I know you pooh-pooh the story, but I think it's a little better than you're giving it credit for. I'm not so sure Diablo was ever a game that needed a ton of story because most of what it was doing was told through atmosphere. There wasn't a ton of narrative to be sure, but I think the minimalism worked for what the game was going for. Not to rag on Diablo 3 too much, but that game basically shows what happens when you try to shoehorn story into a game that doesn't need a ton of it. You go from a moody, gothic atmosphere where the final boss is a looming threat in the background to a brightly colored Saturday-morning cartoon where the villains speak entirely in bad monologues.

I don't think you're wrong in that the game probably won't hold up to what my memory makes of it, but at the same time if you told me I have only enough money to buy either Resurrected or Diablo 4, I'd pick Resurrected in a heartbeat.

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bigsocrates

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@therealturk: All that makes sense to me, and I agree with basically all of it, but for me it makes me want a new Diablo game in the style of 2 rather than just 2 again. I didn't say the story was lacking because I thought it needed more but rather because it's not like I want to relive some grand adventure. Diablo 2 is all about the gameplay experience (not really the mechanics but just the experience) and I feel like the last 20 years have seen a lot of advancements that could be built into a new game that takes what made Diablo 2 great and brings it forward rather than rehashing the old stuff.

It seems like you don't trust Blizzard to make a new good Diablo game and...hard to disagree given their recent output.

I guess it's just a little depressing to me that people feel like we can't do better than Diablo 2 all these years later. There's no real special sauce to that formula as far as I can tell but the people who make the games keep messing it up by cheaping out or trying to put some spin on it that nobody wanted (real. money. auction. house.)

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cikame

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@judoboy: A comparison isn't what i need to see, because they put so much effort into the new graphics i'm worried the "classic" mode will get short shrift, what if they've done nothing to scale up the original graphics for new displays, what if it's still 4:3 etc...

@therealturk: When i think of sprite based remasters where the original is running under the hood i think C&C Remastered, which they pulled off perfectly, so that's the standard i'm holding them to.
I'm not really excited for D4 either, i was extremely disappointed with D3 and my expectations for Blizzard games these days is at an all time low.

@bigsocrates: Nostalgia, i replay all my old favourites because it makes me happy, remasters give me an excuse to replay my favourite games and the upgrades are a bonus, i also want to support projects like C&C Remastered not only because they did it right, but what if it wakes up this long dormant franchise?
I know you take issue with remasters in general, which is why i played through NFS: Hot Pursuit Remastered recently :P, i had a great time, thank you.

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ToughShed

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#9  Edited By ToughShed

Glad they are doing the game justice more than W3 got, it seems.

As far as why go back, nostalgia and I think balance and design. Diablo III sure didn't make it obsolete or anything. That game is a different brand of ARPG that I personally don't like. In the line of some other modern RPGs, it views character build as yet another loot item that you can swap in and out vs having you actually build a character and stick with your choices, which I really don't like.

For me the genre is in a desperate need for reinvention.

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apewins

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It looks exactly like I would expect it to look, yet seeing it in action just made me realize that I can go play Torchlight or Path of Exile or Titan Quest or any other more recent Diablo-like instead.

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bigsocrates

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@cikame: I don't have a problem with remakes or remasters in general. I just platinumed the Sly Cooper PS3 remaster and I also platted the Spyro 3 remake this month, so the remake/remaster hater has definitely not logged on.

I have issues with certain specific titles because they seem either lazy or overpriced or, often, both.

For the record this half-remake half-remaster looks pretty good and seems reasonably priced so I don't have some philosophical issue with it. I just think Diablo 2 is a game that doesn't appeal to me as a revisit personally. I also think that it shows the lack of faith that current fans have in current Blizzard, which, fair enough.

I don't really understand what you mean about waking up a dormant franchise. Diablo 4 is in active development so this franchise is kind of the opposite of dormant.

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cornbredx

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#12  Edited By cornbredx

There's nothing wrong with Diablo 2. I still play it occasionally. All it needs is modern resolutions. People that want anything else don't actually want Diablo 2.

This is not really good news. This is Blizzard continuously trying to continue on by messing with nostalgia for what their company used to be. Since they don't make video games anymore they remake or "remaster" their old ones poorly and expect you to be ok with it. So you forget about what they're doing to get you to spend money in fairly malicious ways.

If all they did was fix the resolution and make it fit a modern monitor correctly and re-released Diablo 2+Lord of Destruction that would be fine to me. You don't need anything else. They're only doing it, though, so that people cannot legally archive the game (the game is 21 years old and due to certain recent lawsuits- or something I don't understand law stuff all that well- games of a certain age that you cannot purchase anywhere you can legally archive online making abandonware a legal thing now- this is also why they re-released the original version of WoW, it's not because they like their players). That's the only reason Blizzard is doing this. They don't actually care about the game or it's players. They'd actually prefer you forgot Diablo 2 since it was a better game then anything they've released in 20 years. If they don't mess it up severely I wouldn't be surprised if it sold as well, or better than, the original release (which was still selling even when they released Diablo 3 let's all remember). Even WoW, which did some interesting things until they messed that up too, was ultimately not as good. It was just cool you could raid dungeons with 40 people but that came with a bad price and that was an idea they stole from somewhere else anyway.

You know what would be neat? If Blizzard came out with a new video game that wasn't made to get you to purchase blind loot boxes. That would be cool. Tell a good story, with cool combat mechanics and fun characters you grow to love. You know... like good entertainment tries to do. They wouldn't do that, though. There's no guaranteed money in that, and they'd probably have to ask China for permission anyway.

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cikame

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@bigsocrates: It was just an additional reason why someone might support a remaster alongside nostalgia, it wasn't aimed at Diablo.
Though i could suggest that Diablo fans who didn't like 3 have been waiting for a return to form for 21 years, and they might feel that by supporting D2 now they could influence D4's development, hell D3 came out nearly a decade ago now, we've had 17 Assassin's Creed titles since then :P.

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Besetment

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The main reason I'm not excited for a Diablo 2 remaster is that I already play Diablo 2. It's still installed on my pc. I played both the base game and the Median XL mod less than two months ago. This just looks like a 3D version of the same game. I don't care about that.

The main reason I'm not excited about Diablo 4 is Diablo 3.

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Epidehl

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As soon as they said they were making some QoL changes, and anything too significant would be toggle, but then can't be bothered to let you respec because that's "too much" I was out on this remaster.

There's no excuse for a game with skill/stat allocations to not let you do that (even for a cost!) nowadays. As soon as it feels like I need to look up a guide before I start up a character, I'm out.

But then again I like Diablo 3 a whole lot so *shrug*

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ajamafalous

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@epidehl said:

As soon as they said they were making some QoL changes, and anything too significant would be toggle, but then can't be bothered to let you respec because that's "too much" I was out on this remaster.

There's no excuse for a game with skill/stat allocations to not let you do that (even for a cost!) nowadays. As soon as it feels like I need to look up a guide before I start up a character, I'm out.

But then again I like Diablo 3 a whole lot so *shrug*

You've been able to respec in Diablo II since 2010.

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Efesell

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I'm not entirely sure who this is for, and I worry that people who think it's for them will be hit with like.. the changes in design since D2 and be real bitter about it.

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Epidehl

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@ajamafalous: Alright, I'll admit I haven't kept up with Diablo 2 in some time, but this quote from an interview is what I was going off of:

"It’ll give you a warning that buying that skill is a permanent choice, but once you move past the warning, that’s it — introducing the ability to reverse that decision would be too big of a change."

Which I guess just means you can't immediately change skill points? It's sure misleading if that's the case.

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ajamafalous

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@epidehl said:

@ajamafalous: Alright, I'll admit I haven't kept up with Diablo 2 in some time, but this quote from an interview is what I was going off of:

"It’ll give you a warning that buying that skill is a permanent choice, but once you move past the warning, that’s it — introducing the ability to reverse that decision would be too big of a change."

Which I guess just means you can't immediately change skill points? It's sure misleading if that's the case.

Yes, you cannot immediately change skill or stat points.

You earn one respec (a full reset of all stat and skill points) per difficulty after completing the Den of Evil quest (i.e. the very first quest in Act I). If you still need more respecs after those three, the act bosses in Hell will each drop a token that you can combine into a set for an additional respec each time.

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Relkin

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As someone who played through D2...wayyyyyyy too many times, I'm not sure I could play through it again, but I'll admit: controller support is tempting. I'm not sure I can ever play another game in this style with mouse+keyboard ever again.

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noobsauce

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Idk. As much as I want to be excited for this, I remember what happened with warcraft 3 and I remember blizzard's stance on a free Hong Kong.

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zoofame

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#22  Edited By zoofame

@toughshed: @therealturk: Full agreement with both of your thoughts. People confuse change or "modern" design for progress, and Diablo 3 is a perfect example of something that was different but didn't capture my attention the way 2 did. Maybe it was the darker mood, the gothic style, the less-is-more storytelling. Perhaps it was just being a teenager and staying up until 4 am with my friends, but D2 felt strictly better in every way. And D2 was updated for a decade post-release with new mechanics like skill synergies, rune words, and Pandemonium/Uber bosses.

The bottom line: knowing that I'll be able to convince a handful of friends to play again, 20 years later, is awesome.

From what I remember, a lot of the character builds used frame count breakpoints to determine how many points to allocate to a particular skill or attribute. If the original engine is still running at a set tick rate then hopefully that remains intact while the graphics can run smoother. I had a kick-based Assassin build that would stun-lock enemies and I'm not sure if I want to go back through the spreadsheets to recalculate all of that for a new engine (or maybe I do, it was super fun!).

The only thing I could ask for is a Linux client for battle net. Diablo 2 and StarCraft: Brood War are the last two reasons I keep a Wine install because I can't get those games from Steam.

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I am super excited about this quite honestly. I can see from the tone of this thread that I am a clear outlier here. The changes they are making are all minimal and can all be toggled off so if you want to just play D2 again you can. Also I might add that unlike the disaster of Warcraft 3 Reforged they are not removing the original game from the store so all the true purists can play that.

Vicarious Visions is doing the work on this and they have a good track record of remasters specifically Tony Hawk. I completely understand the cynical reception to this because of recent Blizzard and that is totally fine. For me though Diablo has always been one of my all time favorite series and paying $40 to relive 20 years ago for a little bit is exciting for me.

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BladeOfCreation

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As someone who never played Diablo 2, but really enjoyed Diablo 3 (which I go back to every year or so), I'm excited to see how this goes.

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FacelessVixen

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I kinda wanna play Diablo II at 3440 x 1440 without it being a hassle, so there's one answer to the 30-year-old boomers asking "Who is this for?"

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Efesell

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On the subject of respecs I'm generally coming to the opinion that if your game does not just have a button on the UI that does it whenever you fee like then I think you're behind the times and need to step up.

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bigsocrates

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@efesell: There's something to be said for forcing players to make and stick with decisions. Yes there should eventually be the ability to respec because it's very uncool to allow people to invest dozens of hours in unviable builds, but limiting respecs (or at least forcing people to invest resources in them) forces people to try to make their choices work and stick with things and find synergies.

If you can respec at will then the decisions become meaningless and you never get that feeling from finding a piece of equipment that perfectly fits your build, or figuring out how to turn a skill you took that isn't great into something really useful.

There's a sweet spot between respec at will and no respecs.

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Efesell

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#29  Edited By Efesell

@bigsocrates: I mean.. I guess I can see it for some but I gain no satisfaction when I want to make changes and the game either says No or demands that I waste resources in game to do it.

So personally as far as I'm concerned you have that option or you are fallin' behind. I can still get that feeling of finding equipment or whatever and channel that to like.. "Oh I could make something cool out of this" instead.

Don't force me to make the best out of a build if I find something cool that doesn't fit it. Reward me for finding something cool by letting me build something new around it.

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Onemanarmyy

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#30  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I don't have anything against respeccing, whatever floats your boat. Personally i remember chosing the thing that sounded cool or useful and don't recall ever getting stuck in a hack & slash game like Diablo or Grim Dawn. At least not in a casual playthrough of the game. When i died, it always felt more like a case of me being a bit too stingy with my money, or wanting to fill up my entire inventory before i start portalling back to town.

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ClarkPete

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I'm honestly stoked for the game, as everything that they showed looks so awesome and promising . I know that there is always a WC3 Reforged and CP2077 possible scenario, but as Vicarious Visions are behind the project, it bring joy to me. They shown their skill for doing projects like this one.

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ajamafalous

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I think a lot of the conversation around this remaster needs to include, like, how much people actually play ARPGs. The opinion of someone who touches a few of the biggest ones, levels a character or three through the base difficulty, maybe finishes the story once, and has decided they've gotten what they want out of the game is far different from someone who plays thousands of hours of multiple ARPGs at endgame, for example.

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ClarkPete

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@ajamafalous: Totally agree on that. But as you said there is a lot of hardcore fans, and also those who will play it for some time and discard it like some other games. But if this is done properly, the hype and medias will do its job, and the company will return their investments. And fans will still get what they want. Win - win

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