After a few days of Torchlight 2, it suddenly reminded me how good Diablo 3 is. I haven't played it in months. After all the hype that T2 was going to show D3 who's boss, it's come along and hasn't really done that at all, in my opinion. In fact, it just shows what a quality game Diablo 3 is and it makes the improvements that Diablo 3 has made all the more clearer.

How does everyone else feel?

It brought me back to Diablo 3 too. Not because TL2 is bad, but because how it lacks polish in every way. The spells are a major fucking joke and so is the one on one combat. But hey, I still like it as a whole.

Thing people got to understand is that, no matter how hard you try, you won't ever mimic the success of Diablo 2. I think it's a matter of nostalgia. Back then, we had only a handful of games like this. Now we got a dime a dozen. You don't like it, you can stop and do something else. When I was a teen, I played by games. Over. And over. And over. But now, hey, i've got 49 good games per year. Who cares if one sucks? That's the thing with D3. People bitch about it and ditch it, even though it has incredible qualities and even though the minute-to-minute gameplay is outstanding.

And see how people approach Torchlight. It's the fucking coming of the messiah. And yet, none speaks of its glaring flaws. Combat, graphics, intense framerate drop during large fights, bad menus, bad inventory, horrible and archaic online integration, camera often obstructed by geometry and so on. But hey, you can level your stats and skills. GOTY RIGHT THERE.

I actually got that feeling too when I tried out TL2. Not that I actually went back (as I'm done with D3), but I just couldn't help but think of the things that D3 did well that TL2 doesn't.

I prefer Torchlight 2. I dig it in the way I dug Diablo 2. Obviously, not with the same severity. But, yeah. I think Torchlight 2 is more my kind of game.

So don't play torchlight 2 and I'll have no desire to play diablo 3, seems fair.

@Klei: Is this a console thing? haven't experienced framerate drops at all.

I don't miss Diablo at all. I like TL2 a lot better actually, there are a lot more different viable builds, there are actual attributes, the difficulty isn't complete bullshit- in TL2 the difficulty is a matter of using your skills well and planning out your build, in D3 it's about grinding until you get better gear, and Blizzard has said as much. Haven't had any problems with the menus or inventory, and the camera isn't a problem for me either- the opaque outline thing may not be the best solution but I haven't died because of it or anything.

After playing through Diablo 3 once, I never want to touch that game again. It just wasn't fun. Torchlight 2 on the other hand is. It's just got so much charm and it actually tries to make you feel as if your character is progressing. In Diablo 3 I just felt as if the game was prohibiting me from trying to have any sort of personalized experience. Diablo 3 has got the same problems I have with WoW. It's a game that was made to milk hours from you, not because you want to have fun but because of your sense of completion and false progression promises. It wants you to waste your time just for a single piece of gear. Torchlight doesn't feel that way. It was made for you to have fun. It's trying its god damn hardest to be a real video game.

I like both games, but I haven't played D3 for a while now. I am not really enjoying TL2 that much - I really despise the feeling of moving your character and the switching between targeting and moving is really bad. It's not a bad game, but TL2 is not as polished - nor was it ever going to be, given that it was made by a much smaller developer with a much smaller budget.

I think I'll stop playing both for a good few months.

@el_tajij said:

After a few days of Torchlight 2, it suddenly reminded me how good Diablo 3 is. I haven't played it in months. After all the hype that T2 was going to show D3 who's boss, it's come along and hasn't really done that at all, in my opinion. In fact, it just shows what a quality game Diablo 3 is and it makes the improvements that Diablo 3 has made all the more clearer.

How does everyone else feel?

B-b-but the internet says Diablo 3 is equivalent to a garbage bag full of shit and Torchlight 2 is our savior! Why on earth would you submit yourself to such a thing again?

Right there with ya. TL2 has reinforced my opinion that D3's skill/leveling up system is awesome. I realized that assigning attributes and skill points brings nothing but stress, especially when it when I have no option to truly respec. I'm only like 4 hours in, but I think TL2 completely lacks the charm that the original had. I feel like there is even less of a story, and it is hard to get a sense of place with the outer areas. Ill keep playing it here and there, but Diablo 3 will be my go-to action RPG for a while I think.

Yeah, TL2 just isn't doing it for me. It's a fine game, don't get me wrong, it's just not for me.

I couldn't even finish the demo for TL2. This, and the massive disappointment of D3 has convinced me that I'm done with ARPGs.

I agree with the OP. I haven't played D3 in awhile but now i'm back on it after playing TL2 for abit. If D3's publisher wasn't blizzard, diablo would be getting alot less hate from fanboys.

edit:

I'm personally under the opinion that people who were objective from the get go prefer D3. Those who were hating D3 from the beginning are just prone to confirmation bias.

Granted there's people on both sides, but from what i've seen, those who were neutral from the beginning prefer D3.

@DaemonBlack said:

Right there with ya. TL2 has reinforced my opinion that D3's skill/leveling up system is awesome. I realized that assigning attributes and skill points brings nothing but stress, especially when it when I have no option to truly respec. I'm only like 4 hours in, but I think TL2 completely lacks the charm that the original had. I feel like there is even less of a story, and it is hard to get a sense of place with the outer areas. Ill keep playing it here and there, but Diablo 3 will be my go-to action RPG for a while I think.

This was already one of my bigger gripes with the first game and it's disappointing to see it's apparently still the case.

I mean if there's something you should be able to do with even a low budget it is interesting lore and a decent plot. Sure, more capital and time will always help there too but still, a decent story doesn't necessarily have direct costs associated with it.

But the world and plot in TL was about as flat as it gets. And it still seems to be the case for TL2, especially all this "ember" talk everywhere, urgh.

@Klei said:

It brought me back to Diablo 3 too. Not because TL2 is bad, but because how it lacks polish in every way. The spells are a major fucking joke and so is the one on one combat. But hey, I still like it as a whole.

Thing people got to understand is that, no matter how hard you try, you won't ever mimic the success of Diablo 2. I think it's a matter of nostalgia. Back then, we had only a handful of games like this. Now we got a dime a dozen. You don't like it, you can stop and do something else. When I was a teen, I played by games. Over. And over. And over. But now, hey, i've got 49 good games per year. Who cares if one sucks? That's the thing with D3. People bitch about it and ditch it, even though it has incredible qualities and even though the minute-to-minute gameplay is outstanding.

And see how people approach Torchlight. It's the fucking coming of the messiah. And yet, none speaks of its glaring flaws. Combat, graphics, intense framerate drop during large fights, bad menus, bad inventory, horrible and archaic online integration, camera often obstructed by geometry and so on. But hey, you can level your stats and skills. GOTY RIGHT THERE.

You pretty much summed up EXACTLY how I feel, which makes me feel good in thinking I'm not the only one who feels like this. Same goes to the other posters in this thread who have a similar opinion.

I will say one thing, though. I've never experienced such a weird relationship with a game as I have with Diablo 3.

@DystopiaX: @Deusx: It's weird to read you guys saying that, because that's the main problem I have with Torchlight 2 - compared to the super-impactful skills and the physics of bodies flying everywhere in Diablo 3, I find T2 incredibly tedious. Also, co-op with more than one player is an absolute nightmare because of the humongous amount of spell effects that go on.

I played the starter edition of D3 and was bored out my fucking skull, but I have been really digging Torchlight 2. Yay for me.

It's no surprise that Diablo 3 surpasses Torchlight 2. Once the inital hype falls off and people finish Torchlight 2, they'll go back to D3. The only reason people bitch about Diablo 3 is because they expect an ARPG in 2012 to give the same feeling as an ARPG that's over 10 years old, where ARPGS were rare and many peoples' first game was Diablo 2. It's impossible to satisfy the rediculous expectations people had of D3.

Torchlight 2 is worth being one of the 5 games of the HIB that I pay $5 for.

I've been switching back and forth between the games and it's really interesting. I don't think I've ever played two games that were so fundamentally similar, yet "feel" so different. Which feels better is a matter of opinion of course. I find myself enjoying Torchlight 2 more, but I'm hard pressed to say exactly why.

It is almost like Diablo 3 is too "high concept" while Tourchlight 2 is too "low-fi".

I prefer Torchlight 2. I dig it in the way I dug Diablo 2. Obviously, not with the same severity. But, yeah. I think Torchlight 2 is more my kind of game.

I prefer TL2. I wont deny it has some flaws but I think the combination of character customization (skills and stats), weapon customization (more diverese attributes, sockets, random enchanting etc) and equipable spells makes for a much more open and fun game.

Though D3 is a great game too so I wont fault anyone to prefer it.

@EXTomar said:

It is almost like Diablo 3 is too "high concept" while Tourchlight 2 is too "low-fi".

Maybe they should make another Titan Quest.

@Ariketh said:

@EXTomar said:

It is almost like Diablo 3 is too "high concept" while Tourchlight 2 is too "low-fi".

Maybe they should make another Titan Quest.

Now that is something I could support.

It has made me never want to play Diablo 3 ever again.

This thread is making me wonder if D3 would have been better received overall if TL2 had launched alongside it.

@EXTomar said:

Tourchlight 2

Esoteric pun or simple typo?

@Ravenlight said:

This thread is making me wonder if D3 would have been better received overall if TL2 had launched alongside it.

Of course, that's obvious, its partly why they delayed launch. It would have made the improvements of D3 all the more resounding.

@el_tajij said:

How does everyone else feel?

I feel like a saved 40 bucks.

I haven't played Torchlight but I still enjoy Diablo in a one month on, one month off sort of way. I really love the ability to make a whole new build in a few clicks and try it out. I still love other RPG's with a traditional written-in-stone character builder, but Diablo III's system is really eye opening to me.

@Ariketh said:

@EXTomar said:

It is almost like Diablo 3 is too "high concept" while Tourchlight 2 is too "low-fi".

Maybe they should make another Titan Quest.

That's not a "maybe", they should definitely make another Titan Quest. I have spent more time in that than in any Diablo or Torchlight.

@Christoffer said:

That's not a "maybe", they should definitely make another Titan Quest. I have spent more time in that than in any Diablo or Torchlight.

Too bad Iron Lore went out of business. The game had its flaws, but it was one the most solid of the ARPGs that came out in the wake of Diablo II. I'd kill for another (good) Dungeon Siege myself.

I love the look of the game, but I am always getting lost in the action. I cant ever tell what I am attacking and a lot of times I will just lose my guy.

@Christoffer said:

@Ariketh said:

@EXTomar said:

It is almost like Diablo 3 is too "high concept" while Tourchlight 2 is too "low-fi".

Maybe they should make another Titan Quest.

That's not a "maybe", they should definitely make another Titan Quest. I have spent more time in that than in any Diablo or Torchlight.

You're in luck!

@Imsorrymsjackson said:

It has made me never want to play Diablo 3 ever again.

This.

The people saying we'll all come back to D3 once the hype falls off are just plain wrong, don't try to speak for everybody. TL2 definitely has its flaws, bugs and quirks, but I'm still having a lot more fun than I ever had in D3. Even though I put in over 200 hours on that... sigh..

Diablo 3 just has better combat. It has weight to it and you just feel like a badass. I don't get that feeling with T2. 

I've been playing D3 almost non-stop since launch and I'm having problems getting into torchlight 2. Not sure why though. I might have "invested" too much time in D3 to be taken easily by another game.

@ajamafalous said:

@Hosstile17 said:

I prefer Torchlight 2. I dig it in the way I dug Diablo 2. Obviously, not with the same severity. But, yeah. I think Torchlight 2 is more my kind of game.

This for me. Torchlight II is the sequel to Diablo II that Diablo III should've been. If you don't like it, that's cool, but that probably just means you weren't a huge fan of Diablo II, which happens to be my favorite game ever.

Liked D2, played both D3 and T2, prefers the former far more than the latter.

I prefer Torchlight II, but that's not to say that Diablo III is a bad game at all. I'm actually pretty neutral in this whole "Diablo III vs. Torchlight II" thing. It's really interesting, seeing all of the reactions to both games. Some people see the loadout skill setup of Diablo III as dumbing down the gameplay, while others see it as a natural evolution. Some people feel that sticking to the genre's RPG roots, and having permanent skill choices, gives you a deeper connection to your character, while others see it as being too restrictive and/or punishing. Some criticize the artstyle of Diablo III as being to cartoonish, while others see it as a natural transition of the Diablo II artstyle into 3D. Some find the world of Torchlight to be bland and lifeless, while others find it infinitely charming. I've even listened to people debate on which game has better combat, and both sides bring up valid reasons. But I think the most amazing thing about this whole debacle is that people are actually debating what game is better, despite Torchlight II being a $20 game made by 30 people. That would be like asking "What is the best story driven RPG: Dragon Age Origins, or Cthulhu Saves the World?" I think this debate is a testament to the sheer quality of Torchlight II, despite the extremely small development team. It may not be as polished as Diablo III, but it's still a damn good game, and there are plenty of reasons that one would like playing it over Diablo III.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Both games completely different, both have glaring flaws, but they're both great at what they do. This whole argument is silly, because neither game is better than the other. It just depends on what kind of game you want. And there's no reason that you can't like both games; one doesn't cancel out the other.

@ajamafalous said:

@Hosstile17 said:

I prefer Torchlight 2. I dig it in the way I dug Diablo 2. Obviously, not with the same severity. But, yeah. I think Torchlight 2 is more my kind of game.

This for me. Torchlight II is the sequel to Diablo II that Diablo III should've been. If you don't like it, that's cool, but that probably just means you weren't a huge fan of Diablo II, which happens to be my favorite game ever.

Liked D2, played both D3 and T2, prefers the former far more than the latter.

@Loafsmooch said:

@Imsorrymsjackson said:

It has made me never want to play Diablo 3 ever again.

This.

The people saying we'll all come back to D3 once the hype falls off are just plain wrong, don't try to speak for everybody. TL2 definitely has its flaws, bugs and quirks, but I'm still having a lot more fun than I ever had in D3. Even though I put in over 200 hours on that... sigh..

You say Diablo 3 was boring - but you spent 200 hours playing it? I've played D3 for 46 hours so far. I think it's funny how everyone complains on the forums but are the same one's who have spent 100's of hours on the game.

Like they got ripped off.

Like they got ripped off for 200 hours worth of entertainment.

@el_tajij: Nope, I didn't say D3 was boring. But I know what you mean, 200 hours worth of entertainment is not a bad thing. In retrospect I just wish I hadn't put in all those hours, because most of them was just grinding the same areas for gear and playing the auction house, not really having fun. More like doing a chore because it got me addicted.

It's done the opposite for me. Can't get enough of Torchlight 2 right now and the last thing I wanna do is revisit the grinder that is D3. To be fair Torchlight 2 is new, and I'll go back to D3 eventually, but this has been a refreshing break. The whole modding factor should be interesting and fun to explore also.

Specifically though, the team at Runic deserve so many kudos imo. The game is such an upgrade on so many lvls from the first. It amazes me such a small team put this out....and especially at such a reasonable price. These guys are the antithesis of current gaming trends and industry dogma(greed).

TL2 from my limited beta experience with it seems to have much more going on, but i personally think D3 has that extra layer of polish to it. D3 still could've used a bit more flexibility in choosing skills. honestly though i haven't visited it again in awhile (and i was pretty close to the end; it was mostly cause the person i co-oped with beat the game and decided he wanted nothing more to do with it lol)

plan to pick up TL2 when i'm not critically broke.

@Mcfart said:

It's no surprise that Diablo 3 surpasses Torchlight 2. Once the inital hype falls off and people finish Torchlight 2, they'll go back to D3. The only reason people bitch about Diablo 3 is because they expect an ARPG in 2012 to give the same feeling as an ARPG that's over 10 years old, where ARPGS were rare and many peoples' first game was Diablo 2. It's impossible to satisfy the rediculous expectations people had of D3.

Torchlight 2 is worth being one of the 5 games of the HIB that I pay $5 for.

Not to mention that everyone who loved Diablo 2 is now ten years older and, as it was in my case, simply those people don't have the time to put into D3 that they did D2. People simply don't have time to play Diablo 3 for 8 hours straight and submerge themselves in it like they did D2 because ten years is enough time for those people to get jobs, families, responsibilities, etc.

@el_tajij said:

@Loafsmooch said:

@Imsorrymsjackson said:

It has made me never want to play Diablo 3 ever again.

This.

The people saying we'll all come back to D3 once the hype falls off are just plain wrong, don't try to speak for everybody. TL2 definitely has its flaws, bugs and quirks, but I'm still having a lot more fun than I ever had in D3. Even though I put in over 200 hours on that... sigh..

You say Diablo 3 was boring - but you spent 200 hours playing it? I've played D3 for 46 hours so far. I think it's funny how everyone complains on the forums but are the same one's who have spent 100's of hours on the game.

Like they got ripped off.

Like they got ripped off for 200 hours worth of entertainment.

Nobody said that, you are just making assumptions. Now that I look back on my grind through that game though I really didnt enjoy it. No shocks, no laughs, no amazing story twists, just clicking and looting, ah and never being as powerful as someone else who has all the money in the world. I dont feel ripped off but I feel sad that D3 just isn't a good game, you will also get to find this out soon enough.

I like both a lot. But Diablo just feels better. The gameplay is just plain more fun. But the lackluster endgame and the fact that I can mod the shit out of TL2 and play silly 6 player coop chaos, kind of even them out. I think deep inside I still prefer Diablo though. :/

@ajamafalous said:

This for me. Torchlight II is the sequel to Diablo II that Diablo III should've been. If you don't like it, that's cool, but that probably just means you weren't a huge fan of Diablo II, which happens to be my favorite game ever.

For me, Titan Quest Gold with the Underlord mod remains the only ARPG to meet expectations beyond Diablo II. I look forward to something that tops it.

I would like to point out that D3 is a very different game from it was released, the patches were spectacular.

Well if you're really into D3 now I hope you enjoy the 30 million gold it requires to buy simple upgrades, and inflation is ever increasing so it might be 50 million in another month, and 100 million a month after that. Price of gold was 25 cents for 100k a couple months ago, it is now 65 cents for 1 million, should be a quarter for 10 million in another 6 months or so; fantastic.

@Fredchuckdave said:

Well if you're really into D3 now I hope you enjoy the 30 million gold it requires to buy simple upgrades, and inflation is ever increasing so it might be 50 million in another month, and 100 million a month after that. Price of gold was 25 cents for 100k a couple months ago, it is now 65 cents for 1 million, should be a quarter for 10 million in another 6 months or so; fantastic.

I beat inferno without using the Auction House.

I can't get over just how good the combat feels in Diablo III. Torchlight II is still fun but I just prefer fucking shit up more in Diablo III.