How do you feel about D4 being an MMO-lite?

Avatar image for casepb
Casepb

851

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By Casepb

So Diablo 4 was officially shown off Friday and it seems to be a mixture of D2 and D3. It's dark like D2, and is always online like D3. But this time the world is shared with up to 100 people in some of the larger areas. They said you can still solo the entire game if you want, but when running around the world there will be others always around. At first I wasn't really happy about this news, but then I guess I got over it fast because everything about it looks amazing to me, and at least you can solo the whole game if you wish. Still, the thought of launch day being a total disaster keeps lingering in my mind. I guess because I remember the launch of Diablo 3. Does it bother you any?

(grabbed some info from mmo-champion)

The Open World

  • Shared world does not affect dungeons. They are still private for you and up to 3 other people.
  • The campaign areas will also remain private until you complete the objective for that campaign area.
  • You will see other players outside your party in the open world and come across many activities.
  • Public events can include events like demons attacking a coastline or a difficult boss.
  • You will find treasure, lore books, and crafting materials in the open world as well.
  • Open world PvP is another aspect.
  • You will share the open world with a varying amount of people based on what is currently happening in the zone.
  • They want Sanctuary to feel bleak and so they don't want you to see too many players while traveling.
  • Towns will have more people in them at one time than the open world.
Avatar image for savage
Savage

797

Forum Posts

21037

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 85

I hope the game allows you to play with the world-sharing turned off, like in a private lobby. Sometimes I'm in the mood for rubbing shoulders with randos all over the place, and other times I'm more in the mood for a journey of focused solitude, especially with D4 aiming to recapture the dark and desolate atmosphere of D1. I hope the game supports both kinds of experiences.

Avatar image for efesell
Efesell

4758

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

It seems promising to me.

I'm assuming it's going to operate more or less the way Destiny does. Big areas full of smaller instanced content and while you're running in-between those you are connected with other players for world events and such.

If that's the case then I really have no concerns about it.

Avatar image for zeik
Zeik

5269

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By Zeik

I never had much fun with matchmaking groups in Diablo, so I played them pretty much entirely solo.

I'm actually more open to the idea of running into people naturally in the world and playing with them for however we feel comfortable and then going off on my own whenever I feel like it. As long as I can still play solo if I want (this would be make or break for me) and loot is instanced (I don't think there's any chance it would not be) then I'm fine with that change.

They still have to do more to prove to me the rest of the game is something to get excited about though. Edgier D3 isn't that exciting to me.

Avatar image for facelessvixen
FacelessVixen

2754

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

I feel the same as our Glorious Leader, Winnie the Pooh, feels about it.

'Kay seriously, I dunno. I don't think that I'm as into passive co-op in Diablo as I enjoy it in Destiny, but I'd have to play it to know for sure, or maybe not since I barely played Diablo 3.

Avatar image for nutter
nutter

2677

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#6  Edited By nutter

For me, it’s the wrong move. I’ve been playing Diablo from the start of the franchise, and the core combat has gotten tired.

Console versions got a cool right-stick flick for a roll, but I’d want to see the series keep my interest by changing things up. Drastic would be fine, but even if they kept the roll and added some blocking/parrying, I think I’d be more interested.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Diablo flirt with character-action-lite elements. Just watching cooldowns happen and hitting the heal or mana hotkey isn’t enough for me, at this point.

Shared world makes me think that there will be less quick action, less demand for engagement, and more monotonous clicking.

Avatar image for casepb
Casepb

851

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nutter: They took the roll from consoles and made it into a full dodge ability. You will have to dodge some of the bigger attacks from bosses and what not. No form of block in though.

Avatar image for therealturk
TheRealTurk

682

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By TheRealTurk

I'm willing to withhold judgment until I see more of it in action but my initial feeling is not particularly positive. A big part of the Diablo experience for me is the sense of isolation. The last thing I want is to be wandering around in this dark metal-inspired world only to come across "N00bSl4yer 727" and have them start following me around.

Honestly, the biggest issue for me will be what they show of the skill and character advancement system. I know Blizzard wants to make the game accessible, but I really felt like they dumbed down the systems so much in Diablo 3 that it was kind of insulting. I want to choose my skills, not have them handed to me. I want to choose where I put my stats rather than just getting "primary stat plus vitality."

In Diablo 3 all that stuff was just kind of done for you and I never really felt any ownership or connection to my character as a result. The farther away they get from that system, the better.

Avatar image for ares42
Ares42

4378

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I feel like this is pretty much the inevitable progression of the genre. We've been seeing games like this popping up recently, and it's just a natural fit. Personally I'm much concerned about what they're planning to do with end-game systems and the lackluster spell effects they've shown so far. Diablo 4 can't just be Diablo 3 with a different world structure, the genre demands more at this point. Compared to all the other alternatives we've seen come out before and since Diablo 3 what they showed does nothing to stand out.

Avatar image for nutter
nutter

2677

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

@casepb: Yeah, I just need more than that. Diablo 3 had it’s good an bad changes, but the lack of skill trees, attributes, and the addition of cooldowns were all the wrong direction for me.

Frankly, it’ll probably be a good game for people who want to blow time half-playing a game while watching TV or listening to a podcast or something.

I love Diablo, but I could see this being where I’m done with the franchise, based on trajectory.

Very pretty environments, though.

Avatar image for fisk0
fisk0

7012

Forum Posts

57859

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 70

#11 fisk0  Moderator

Well, I fell off the Diablo train with 2, which I already felt became too open worldy for its own good. I loved how condensed Diablo 1 was and each subsequent game has been less and less my thing, and this sounds like something I wouldn't even bother trying after how much I disliked 3.

Avatar image for geirr
geirr

3844

Forum Posts

717

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Sounds fine.

Avatar image for shagge
ShaggE

9358

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

I don't love it, being a complete solo player in Diablo, but it shouldn't be more than a minor annoyance in practice. I hope.

Avatar image for bonelessspirit
BonelessSpirit

210

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By BonelessSpirit

I think it's really cool because there aren't many games like that in this genre, right? Like it's not fully an MMO because it's still instanced in spots, and 100 players is not massive, but it's larger and more open than they have done in the past so it sits in a place where it can really provide a unique gameplay experience.

Avatar image for humanity
Humanity

19290

Forum Posts

5738

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 38

User Lists: 14

I really liked Diablo 3 but will have to wait and see. Given everything that has happened in the past year it’s hard to not look at this move cynically as yet another way to squeeze more money out of people rather than an honest evolution of the franchise.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
BigSocrates

1998

Forum Posts

42

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I'm not excited by it at all because it is probably a set up for microtransactions and other bullshit. I want my Diablo to be a fun and atmospheric ARPG with a lot of cool equipment and memorable settings. Having other players run around being goofy and a bunch of shops trying to get me to spend real money (which had been patched out by the time I played D3) is all downside, and I don't really see the upside. I tend to just play through Diablo games with a friend and move on, I don't really do the end game equipment grind because I find grinding for grinding's sake to be pointless, so I am not the target hardcore audience.

It won't necessarily ruin the game and I'm still hopeful, but it's a bad sign. I'm super tired of games as a service and have started just not playing them. I didn't pick up Destiny 2 or Division 2 and have no interest in either at this point.

At least there are enough good single player games in my backlog and coming out to keep me busy with the hobby. Fortunately I like indie games so the fact that almost all of AAA seems to be going in this direction isn't a huge problem for me. I do wish they would stop inserting this crap into my favorite series though. It seems like Sony (to some degree) and Nintendo are the only major publishers still interested in selling us self-contained products that aren't just hooks to be able to sell more things.

Avatar image for onemanarmyy
Onemanarmyy

4796

Forum Posts

431

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I always thought Path of Exile's skill combining was a cool way forward for the genre.

Apparently the urge to look cool in front of other players is the way to go for games nowadays. Personally i don't care about cosmetics at all. Like i play with default outfits in dota2 if it makes sense. Which sadly means that a lot of progression systems don't excite me all that much. I'd much rather unlock a cool skill to use than a new coat to wear.

Avatar image for bongchilla
BongChilla

367

Forum Posts

16

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

I think the game looks really good. I mean it’s still super early and Blizzard even said it is still a ways away. But from the gameplay video I see it looks like a mixture of D2 and D3 and I did see skill trees in the videos I’ve seen so that will be good (if it’s kept of course).

I am optimistic and happy that a new Diablo game is being made. It’s been soooo long and the season structure of D3 has been played out IMO from a while now. Is it a super fresh idea? No, but blizzard has never been one to reinvent stuff they love to perfect it so here is hoping they do that with this game

Avatar image for dudeglove
dudeglove

13862

Forum Posts

1166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 2

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for doombot13
doombot13

407

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So it's Marvel Heroes kinda.

Avatar image for pweidman
pweidman

2873

Forum Posts

15

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

There's a lot of development left and changes will happen for sure but what they showed, and especially the demo people streamed live yesterday looked very promising. Also it has been stated that you can play the game solo or in 4 person groups with very limited MMO interactions, if any at all. Devs have repeatedly mentioned their concern for the players to experience the dark and gruesome vibe of this game, and the feeling of solitude of the lone avenger and explorer, especially in the campaign.

But watch some vods and see the world boss battles w/up to 100 players. It looks pretty awesome, and the MMO lite framework for D4 is what makes that and whatever they create in the future, possible. Trading(mostly via clans perhaps)is a cornerstone feature, and cosmetic micros have been confirmed in several interviews.

Avatar image for oursin_360
OurSin_360

6283

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Is this just for pc? Hopefully it's like diablo 3 and when it comes to console they take the dumb always online stuff out and we get a real game we can actually own and play forever or until our consoles break.

Avatar image for doofcake
Doofcake

46

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

#23  Edited By Doofcake

@oursin_360: It looks like this will be a core feature. That is, it's on ever platform.

The Destiny comparisons seem fair and accurate.

Avatar image for darthbotto
DarthBotto

33

Forum Posts

13729

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

I'm honestly greatly intrigued by the concept and look forward to sharing in many dungeon-crawling adventures on the PS5! Unfortunately, Blizzard's brand identity has deteriorated enough over the recent past that this is the only title on the table that I'm actually intrigued by; I'm otherwise withdrawn from the company.

Avatar image for therealturk
TheRealTurk

682

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I know it's early days and things could still change, but what I saw of the social stuff was a massive, massive turn off to me. I like darker color palette and they seem to have found a balance between simplifying stats but also still allowing players more choice than D3. But seeing a bunch of randos with unbearably stupid screen names suddenly enter the same room and clip through the player character to queue up for a quest was just dumb.

I'm getting unfortunate Diablo 3 vibes from the whole endeavor - the ideas are fine on their own but at the same time it ain't Diablo.

Avatar image for gundato
Gundato

488

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By Gundato

From reading other interviews and a writeup on resetera, it seems like a logical evolution of the genre. You are effectively in an instance until you beat the act boss and then it becomes a shared world with public events. In theory I don't have an issue with that and wouldn't mind seeing PoE adopt that for a later act.

If it weren't for all the walk backs on the actual good things Blizzard did with D3 I would be all down for trying this. But after all of the "Look, we get it, you wanted diablo 2" that got rid of the good stuff from 3, this is pretty clearly just an attempt to get some of that Destiny money. And fuck that. It feels less like some of the pioneers of the genre trying cool shit and more like an attempt at making things more palatable for a different audience.

If Blizzard can get their shit together by the time this releases I'll take a look. But I am not optimistic on either front.

Avatar image for oursin_360
OurSin_360

6283

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@doofcake said:

@oursin_360: It looks like this will be a core feature. That is, it's on ever platform.

The Destiny comparisons seem fair and accurate.

ah, that sucks. Game looks too dark for me anyway.

Avatar image for soimadeanaccount
soimadeanaccount

643

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By soimadeanaccount

Call me old fashion, but the always online thing still gets to me (the game is actually better on the console!?) I never played D3 seriously because of that. Messed around with it a little, but just can't get into it. I don't even care about the stats/build stuff that people seems to be pissed about, and they did eventually do away with the RMAH which I also had issues with. D4 will still likely be a pass for me.

While it could be anti-thesis to these kind of games, but the grind has got to be less RNG focus.

The game does look good visually, both style and tech, I also had no issues with the look and tech of D3. I do hope this will spark interests in the industry again in making another wave of Diablo-esq games without all the other stuff.

Avatar image for mrgreenman
MrGreenMan

289

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

We are so early from this game even being released I don't have any opinions until we actually a release date.

Avatar image for joedangerous
JoeDangerous

667

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

We'll definitely see. For now it reminds me of throwing stones at a windmill a-la public zone bosses in Guild Wars 2 or FFXIV; in other words, not that exciting and never impactful. Really the only reason you're there is to get the cool loot from the zone boss, not because you'll feel important as you fight it (which is a bummer).

@therealturk: Yeah D3 was extremely odd in that skills (e.g. primary, secondary) were locked to their respective button until you unchecked an option in the gameplay settings to put skills wherever you wanted. Granted attributes definitely seem like they aren't making a comeback, but they did state that skill points are back as well as skill tomes. They even clarified that you can't respec your skill points, rather you have to grind for more skill tomes. Will we see a return to 10+ characters on your screen just so you have your MF Javazon? Or will it just be a handful that found a good grinding spot and have unlocked/maxed out every skill in the game? It'll be a weird entry for sure.

Avatar image for therealturk
TheRealTurk

682

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@therealturk: Yeah D3 was extremely odd in that skills (e.g. primary, secondary) were locked to their respective button until you unchecked an option in the gameplay settings to put skills wherever you wanted. Granted attributes definitely seem like they aren't making a comeback, but they did state that skill points are back as well as skill tomes. They even clarified that you can't respec your skill points, rather you have to grind for more skill tomes. Will we see a return to 10+ characters on your screen just so you have your MF Javazon? Or will it just be a handful that found a good grinding spot and have unlocked/maxed out every skill in the game? It'll be a weird entry for sure.

On the first point, what they showed of the character screen having only attack and defense gave me at least a little bit of hope that they at least thought things through this time. My personal preference would be a return to a deeper attribute system, but if they are going to simplify, then they should actually simplify. D3 was the worst of both worlds - you only needed to care about a primary stat plus vitality, but the character screen had a mess of stats that didn't end up mattering and you had no control over.

Of course, a system like that comes with risks unless they design it well. Ideally, you want the character classes to actually feel different so that the sorceress maybe has really high attack but low defense, whereas the barbarian is the opposite, for example. However, Blizzard's recent game design suggests that the classes will just end up with similar numbers, which means that to differentiate them, the numbers have to mean different things to different characters, so that a point of attack for the barbarian is worth more than a point of attack for the druid. That just gets confusing.

On the second point, that's one of those design decisions that's just inexplicable to me. Why not let people respect for some increasing cost? As you say, one of the problems with not respeccing is that if skill points are limited, then players can create a really bad character build. If skill points can be ground out, then eventually you have everything. Allowing a respec option solves both those problems - skill points can be capped but players can mess around with it until they find a build they like, without having to create ten different characters.

Avatar image for gundato
Gundato

488

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@joedangerous: I actually found the suggested ability key thing to be one of the more genius things D3 did.

Once you learn the game you turn that off and optimize for your play style/the build you found online. But it provides a very structured way to build in the basics of build crafting. You know you want one buff, one beam, one heavy attack, etc. Contrast that with D2 or PoE where it tends to be "Well, I can unlock this skill so I guess I'll use it?"

There is a lot in D3 that I wish other ARPGs would learn from. Instead it looks like Blizzard are rolling as much of that back as possible to get some of that D2/PoE audience back.

Avatar image for nutter
nutter

2677

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

I, for one, openly embrace bringing Dark Dreams Don’t Die to the MMO-lite space.

Someone had to make the damned joke...

Avatar image for tobbrobb
TobbRobb

6609

Forum Posts

49

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

The concept sounds like it'll weaken the things I enjoy about Diablo and double down on the things I don't care much about. Can't say I'm too excited by the news.

Avatar image for hughj
hughj

101

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

This will presumably be the first time a Diablo will be getting designed with console/gamepad in mind from the outset. Any sort of mechanics, powers, UI, or other design decisions that would especially hinge on having mouse/keyboard input and a high DPI monitor near your face will probably get nixed in favor of whatever is the lowest common denominator for the console and PC multi-platform market.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.