@Terramagi said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Terramagi said:

@Grasu said:

@Terramagi: have you played this game?

I tell people why the gameplay mechanics are inferior. I tell them why the ranking system is broken. I tell them why the weapon system is broken. I tell them about the differences in difficulty settings. And still they think they can dismiss it with something as trite as "well have you dropped 60 dollars yet?"

YES, I have played it. It's a BAD DMC game.

@TruthTellah said:

@Terramagi said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Terramagi said:

Yes, they probably would have, because the numbers were there from DMC4's sales to prompt a sequel in the form of this.

Even if they didn't, it WOULD have been better to just let the series end on a relatively high note, as opposed to pulling a Buffalo Bill and parading this skinsuit around distraught family members.

You have to admit that's a pretty hyperbolic thing to say.

If you would cut down on the hyperbole and odd sense of disbelief in every comment, you might actually be able to help someone else understand your concerns. I know you're somehow distraught, but if you care about the series, pull it together. Reasonable criticisms should be enough to convince people without resorting to endless exaggeration and wailing. Just calm down for a second, make a clean slate, and be nice as you help others understand your points about the game.

Devil May Cry sold MILLIONS of copies. It was not in need of a "re-imagining". It wasn't dead, Brad is (admittedly) ignorant when he said that, and yet here you are pretending like it was true. It was not in need of being "saved". People already loved the series, I am NOT alone in that like you seek to make it appear. This is not some niche ass title, stop pretending like it was to invalidate everybody who points out the numerous flaws in this game's design.

You're boxing with phantoms, Terramagi.

I haven't said anything on the game or whether it needed to be saved. I haven't mentioned invalidating anyone pointing out flaws in the game or anything else. Actually, my entire point is to make the discussion be -about- the perceived merits and flaws of the game. But that isn't the case right now, because you're not arguing with anyone. You're lashing out at everyone here with hyperbole and nonsense. Just calm down for a second and think about what you're saying.

As I said to Nettacki, people often betray their point when they make their rage the center point. Your whole crazy schtick is distracting from real criticism of the game. You have been actively giving concerned fans of the series a bad name with this manic response.

Relax. If it's really egregious, you can calmly and rationally explain why people should be concerned by this. Don't let your outrage distract from your intended point. Just be cool and talk to everyone here like fellow gamers. We're not all out to get you. In fact, no one is out to get you. Be better than this and be the voice of reason. That doesn't take hyperbole or accusations. All it takes is calmly helping others understand your concerns and nicely encouraging people to share in expressing displeasure over the game. If they don't agree with you, there's no need to flip out or insult anyone. Just move on and maintain a focus on your point. If there is merit to what you are saying, people will listen.

Somebody pick up that phone, because I fucking CALLED IT.

I have explained time and time again what is wrong with this game. You are not interested in listening to why this game is bad. I know, because I've already explained why it's a bad DMC game, and an average any-other-game. You are interested in cutting out snippets of this dialogue and bringing it into your psych 101 class tomorrow. At least, I hope that's what you're doing, because otherwise you're just as crazy and self-deluded as you think I am.

I don't think you're crazy at all.

I think you're making yourself sound crazy, marginalizing your points.

No one here is -making- you seem crazy. You're the one using hyperbole and acting manically. Other people in this thread have shown the ability to calm down and talk about the game, and I am suggesting that you can do the same. Because you're -not- insane. You're just making yourself look like it.

Don't waste your time. Calm down. Step back for a second. And then talk to us like a human being. Please do still dislike the game if that's how you feel. I think it's reasonable for someone to feel differently on a videogame. But when talking about it, we don't have to freak out. Just state your case calmly and clearly and leave it at that. Let your argument speak for itself.

I know that in your head I sound like a fucking lunatic. I have a couple theories why. Possibly the cursing. Perhaps as you were raised, people didn't curse around you very much, and in your mind people only swear when something is wrong or they're distraught. Not so everywhere. Sometimes people are just raised differently, and cuss like fucking sailors.

Re-read my post in the most deadpan, tired, bitterly sarcastic tone you can. Especially this next part.

I am aware that bringing up the words "appeal to the masses" in the state I do makes me seem absolutely fucking insane and like I'm typing this shit from in a bunker next to 50 years of food. It doesn't make it any less valid when that's what's actually happening, whether intentional or not.

So, are you more interested in saying everything that pops to mind or convincing people to understand the points you are intending to make?

@Salbert: Oh man...

What is it you people want exactly? A studio didn't make the game you want to play, and now you don't want anyone to enjoy it. You haven't lost anything. Nobody has taken anything away from you. It's just that someone made something for a group of people you don't belong to.

What I and many others desired was a proper follow up to DMC4. A lot of it is that it's ruining an existing franchise. This may now be the future of a once beloved franchise and people see it as ruining something they loved. It's not too difficult to see the controversy over this game.

This kinda happened with XCOM last year, but I don't remember them being so venomous. They said why they didn't like the new one, and then continued playing the old one. They understood that this was an entirely new direction for the series, and no attempt was made to make it as complicated as the old ones. They understood the game wasn't for them. They accepted that.

XCOM was a franchise inactive for ten years, and the change isn't nearly as drastic as DmC's is.

Hardcore games still exist. They just have different labels then what they did in the past

Yes, they do. But they're getting fewer and fewer and it's sad to see another franchise succumb to in an every increasing niche market.

Stop being so entitled.

I really hate this term when it comes to games, I really do. It seems like the video game industry is the only industry where the customer is always wrong, a loyal fanbase expresses dislike of a game and they're now "entitled whiners." For shame.

@Salbert said:

What is it you people want exactly? A studio didn't make the game you want to play, and now you don't want anyone to enjoy it. You haven't lost anything. Nobody has taken anything away from you. It's just that someone made something for a group of people you don't belong to.

This kinda happened with XCOM last year, but I don't remember them being so venomous. They said why they didn't like the new one, and then continued playing the old one. They understood that this was an entirely new direction for the series, and no attempt was made to make it as complicated as the old ones. They understood the game wasn't for them. They accepted that.

Hardcore games still exist. They just have different labels then what they did in the past. Stop being so entitled.

They weren't being told that the old X-Com games were shit and that they were losers for liking them. They weren't being repeatedly prodded and antagonized by the developers, the shit eating press, and shit eating fans. The people that made Enemy Unknown didn't brag about their work despite requiring hand-holding from the people whose work they were disparaging. Not to mention that X-Com WAS a dead franchise, and Enemy Unknown only came about due to (gasp) fan backlash over misuse of the title. And you can go fuck yourself over that entitlement comment.

@Salbert said:

@PipeBomb: It's senseless because I honestly believe the only reason this game has the Devil May Cry title is for marketing purposes. It wasn't made by any of the people who made the original DMCs, and it seems like they went about making it with a totally different mindset. Basically, Ninja Theory made an action game, and Capcom said "HERE PUT THIS LABEL ON IT". Is it disrespectful to the label? Sure, especially if you're a classic DMC fan. But my point is that no attempt at all was made to make this game a "real" DMC, and it would be more cause for concern if this was like this and made by the same studio as the originals with the same design mindset the originals had.

Like, I honestly think Bayonetta is more a sequel to Devil May Cry 4 then this game is, because wasn't that made by many of the same developers as DMC? Don't pay attention to labels. Pay attention to design and the people making this game

DmC is a reboot, not a spinoff like Metal Gear: Rising. It is a complete reboot to the whole universe, which means it is a "real" DMC in the developer's and/or publisher's eyes and when they see reviews such as these and (hopefully not) good sales then they will continue to bastardize the series by making sequels to DmC, the worst part is that they will feel justified. It is not just a label, its a title to something that they are vastly changing without respecting it's sources. Sure they are made by different people, but they were endorsed by the publishers. Its a direction that can be comparable to Dead Space and the Dragon Age series.

Actually, lets take out the label and replace it with Legend of Zelda. This game is now the reboot to Legend of Zelda. Would you think the backlash of Zelda fans be unjustified?

It would be different if it was a spinoff, but in this case its not.

For what it's worth, here is Jeff Gerstmann's take on the matter http://jeffgerstmann.tumblr.com/post/40590137427/the-new-dmc-was-developed-by-pretentious-tools-talking

Or the original Devil May Cry fanbase went in with a chip on their shoulder and took every single bit of information about the new game as a personal affront. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for taking games seriously, but at some point people just get unhinged about the wrong shit. It’s not like EVERY DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD doesn’t say nice things about the game they’re currently developing or anything…

Move on. Devil May Cry is dead to you. That’s fine. Because it’s not like Capcom Japan was ever going to make a “real” sequel. If they had any meaningful intent in that department, they wouldn’t have let the US office make the deal with Ninja Theory in the first place. I’m not saying you have to like it, but letting it consume you like this doesn’t do you any good. Raging about it just spreads the name of the game even further than any marketing can. Pretend it doesn’t exist. Don’t read about it. Don’t talk about it. Or try to stop holding on so tightly and maybe give it a shot?

Either way, try to devote your energy to a game that you actually enjoy and champion it instead.

Glad to see him taking this stance.

Damn it, someone figured me out in this thread.

For what it's worth, here is Jeff Gerstmann's take on the matter http://jeffgerstmann.tumblr.com/post/40590137427/the-new-dmc-was-developed-by-pretentious-tools-talking

Or the original Devil May Cry fanbase went in with a chip on their shoulder and took every single bit of information about the new game as a personal affront. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for taking games seriously, but at some point people just get unhinged about the wrong shit. It’s not like EVERY DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD doesn’t say nice things about the game they’re currently developing or anything…

Move on. Devil May Cry is dead to you. That’s fine. Because it’s not like Capcom Japan was ever going to make a “real” sequel. If they had any meaningful intent in that department, they wouldn’t have let the US office make the deal with Ninja Theory in the first place. I’m not saying you have to like it, but letting it consume you like this doesn’t do you any good. Raging about it just spreads the name of the game even further than any marketing can. Pretend it doesn’t exist. Don’t read about it. Don’t talk about it. Or try to stop holding on so tightly and maybe give it a shot?

Either way, try to devote your energy to a game that you actually enjoy and champion it instead.

Glad to see him taking this stance.

@CityHunter: I appreciate that the Ghost of Denis Dyack took the time to write something decently formatted and simply addressed to his own concerns surrounding the game. I have no issue with it. My issue is the fact that other people have allowed their displeasure to distract from the higher quality posts like that. And that has been characteristic of most gaming forums today as people have raged about the game. You get some nice little criticism, surrounded by a flood of angry nonsense.

I don't think that's fair to those taking the time to write reasonable thoughts on the game, and so, I'm discouraging people from contributing to that kind of toxic response that distracts from the real discussion of the game's merits and issues.

@Sgtcrispy said:

I really hate this term when it comes to games, I really do. It seems like the video game industry is the only industry where the customer is always wrong, a loyal fanbase expresses dislike of a game and they're now "entitled whiners." For shame.

It's how the expression of dislike is done is what levies a lot of criticism at times.

@Salbert: The more @Terramagi: @Ghost_of_Denis_Dyack: @PipeBomb: rant about DmC the more they make me want to actually preorder the game on steam. And I was going to wait for a sale...

All of this makes me cringe and mad and worry for the intelligence of the Giant Bomb community, but one thing makes me laugh: that some people actually think that DMC as a franchise was not nearly forgotten.

@Salbert said:

For what it's worth, here is Jeff Gerstmann's take on the matter http://jeffgerstmann.tumblr.com/post/40590137427/the-new-dmc-was-developed-by-pretentious-tools-talking

Or the original Devil May Cry fanbase went in with a chip on their shoulder and took every single bit of information about the new game as a personal affront. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for taking games seriously, but at some point people just get unhinged about the wrong shit. It’s not like EVERY DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD doesn’t say nice things about the game they’re currently developing or anything…

Move on. Devil May Cry is dead to you. That’s fine. Because it’s not like Capcom Japan was ever going to make a “real” sequel. If they had any meaningful intent in that department, they wouldn’t have let the US office make the deal with Ninja Theory in the first place. I’m not saying you have to like it, but letting it consume you like this doesn’t do you any good. Raging about it just spreads the name of the game even further than any marketing can. Pretend it doesn’t exist. Don’t read about it. Don’t talk about it. Or try to stop holding on so tightly and maybe give it a shot?

Either way, try to devote your energy to a game that you actually enjoy and champion it instead.

Glad to see him taking this stance.

I don't like how that post ignored gameplay complaints and was the standard "you guys just want to hate it." I actually wanted to enjoy it, I enjoyed the original trailer for DmC quite a bit actually. And still do, though the final game has changed far from it. The author also assumes that talking about the game is some massive exercise, like writing posts on a forum explaining our point of view is something we're devoting so much energy to and people are "letting it consume them." It's really not taken over people's lives as much as he assumes. Also, why does championing a new game while trying to fight for your old franchise have to be mutually exclusive? A lot of members of the DMC community love the Bayonetta franchise, that doesn't make DmC any less of a disappointment.

@Milkman said:

@Sgtcrispy No, you didn't have this account for a while. You made it 52 minutes ago, which I can see on your profile page.

I have had the account, I didn't have to create a new one upon joining. I just didn't post on this site. I posted on Comic Vine.

@Sgtcrispy said:

@RoyCampbell said:

Yes, let's just regurgitate what another editor has to say (of which he addressed general hate, not what the guy asked). Have anything else to add that isn't a copy/paste?

I don't like how that post ignored gameplay complaints and was the standard "you guys just want to hate it." I actually wanted to enjoy it, I enjoyed the original trailer for DmC quite a bit actually. And still do, though the final game has changed far from it. The author also assumes that talking about the game is some massive exercise, like writing posts on a forum explaining our point of view is something we're devoting so much energy to and people are "letting it consume them." It's really not taken over people's lives as much as he assumes. Also, why does championing a new game while trying to fight for your old franchise have to be mutually exclusive? A lot of members of the DMC community love the Bayonetta franchise, that doesn't make DmC any less of a disappointment.

To be fair, Anonymous did open his "question" (which wasn't a question) with calling the developers pretentious tools and just dumped on the game which overall set the same negative tone that has been reverberated here many times and Jeff opted to respond to that.

@TruthTellah: Don't lie to me. You said that we only have ourselves to blame yet Ghost put three of those posts up before any of them got a response that wasn't incoherent shitflinging, so don't tell me that it's fanboy rage distracting people. If anything it validates some of the rage, but you people can't have the naysayers be right, so it just gets "buried in a mountain of nonsense."

@Vashyron said:

@Sgtcrispy said:

@RoyCampbell said:

Yes, let's just regurgitate what another editor has to say (of which he addressed general hate, not what the guy asked). Have anything else to add that isn't a copy/paste?

I don't like how that post ignored gameplay complaints and was the standard "you guys just want to hate it." I actually wanted to enjoy it, I enjoyed the original trailer for DmC quite a bit actually. And still do, though the final game has changed far from it. The author also assumes that talking about the game is some massive exercise, like writing posts on a forum explaining our point of view is something we're devoting so much energy to and people are "letting it consume them." It's really not taken over people's lives as much as he assumes. Also, why does championing a new game while trying to fight for your old franchise have to be mutually exclusive? A lot of members of the DMC community love the Bayonetta franchise, that doesn't make DmC any less of a disappointment.

To be fair, Anonymous did open his "question" (which wasn't a question) with calling the developers pretentious tools and just dumped on the game which overall set the same negative tone that has been reverberated here many times and Jeff opted to respond to that.

Yeah, the question didn't really leave much open to a good response. I feel like it was a poor question to respond to that dodged the main issue with the game.

@Sgtcrispy said:

@Vashyron said:

@Sgtcrispy said:

@RoyCampbell said:

Yes, let's just regurgitate what another editor has to say (of which he addressed general hate, not what the guy asked). Have anything else to add that isn't a copy/paste?

I don't like how that post ignored gameplay complaints and was the standard "you guys just want to hate it." I actually wanted to enjoy it, I enjoyed the original trailer for DmC quite a bit actually. And still do, though the final game has changed far from it. The author also assumes that talking about the game is some massive exercise, like writing posts on a forum explaining our point of view is something we're devoting so much energy to and people are "letting it consume them." It's really not taken over people's lives as much as he assumes. Also, why does championing a new game while trying to fight for your old franchise have to be mutually exclusive? A lot of members of the DMC community love the Bayonetta franchise, that doesn't make DmC any less of a disappointment.

To be fair, Anonymous did open his "question" (which wasn't a question) with calling the developers pretentious tools and just dumped on the game which overall set the same negative tone that has been reverberated here many times and Jeff opted to respond to that.

Yeah, the question didn't really leave much open to a good response. I feel like it was a poor question to respond to that dodged the main issue with the game.

And also not a question. No questions were asked in that.

There is always room and circumstance for members of the community to provide their own interpretations of games and the reviews that assess them on Giant Bomb. However, when that opportunity is wasted and simply results in an endless cycle of insult, personal attacks, and uncivil behavior what should be allowed differs from what can be allowed.

This thread has been a consistent source of hostility and behavior that requires constant moderation, and as such it is being locked. Any comments made here will however still be assessed, and users found to have commented in violation of our Forum Rules will still be warned and(or) penalized.