@demoskinos: And if you think fans had no impact whatsoever, you're delusional too.

I think you're underestimating the amount of vitriol this game got and the size of the spurned fanbase. Doesn't take much till word of mouth turns sour.

Plus I saw a fair number of commercials for this game, every day for two weeks straight after it came out.

If that was the case Resident Evil 6 wouldn't have sold the 5 million or so units it did. And that game got it from both ends. Bad reviews and bad word of mouth. The difference there is Resident Evil 6 stuff was EVERYWHERE. They went all out on the ads and marketing.

@demoskinos said:

Actually there's still a HUGE RE fanbase that will buy anything that has the RE name on it. It's like FF and MGS. Poor reviews or word of mouth won't hurt it in the short term. Wouldn't be surprised if sales drop off with the next major installment though. Same with Assassin's Creed (after 3...).

This doesn't apply to DMC since it's always been a smaller franchise. Also Capcom already earned some bad blood with it after DMC4 (especially when it went multiplatform).

I think you're putting on the damage control a little too high there, friend. Plenty of people knew this game existed, and they numbered way more than just the previous fanbase alone. Capcom openly touted this fact around and the controversy surrounding this game only helped propel people discussing it and raising awareness for it. Hell, they bragged about how much publicity this game was getting as a selling point:

Fans have more control of a game's success than you are probably willing to wager, and that's a damn good thing in today's market. It may not work for high profile titles like Call of Duty, but DmC's experiment has proven definitively to developers everywhere that you can't just throw your core fanbase under the bus without consequence. The reason why DmC has failed to sell well is not because it isn't a good game and it's not because Capcom didn't advertise it (hell, this cg advert played nonstop during movie theater previews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3mE5up8sD8 , and the bus ads, and the TV spots), the reason DmC failed to sell is because of the negative word of mouth perpetuated throughout the internet. In DmC's case, its audience was not the casual Call of Duty crowd, its inherent audience was one that is way more likely to keep up with the internet forums and development surrounding each iteration of the franchise, so when they've heard enough negative press and pessimism towards the game - a good chunk of DmC's sales are hurt the most, moreso than if this was a new direction for a Call of Duty game. The fact that the internet jumped on the hate bandwagon for this game - and not just random NeoGAFers or 4channers, you have Youtube personalities that reach out to thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people trashing on this game - is EXACTLY why this game has bombed.

Hell, Two Best Friends play - one of the most popular (and imo entertaining) machinma series that average in the hundreds of thousands of views per video have all but lambasted this game in the various videos they've done, more recently being the PSABR, DmC, and Metal Gear Rising let's plays. And they're not the only ones by far. You cannot deny the ever-growing impact that Youtube personalities have on swaying consumer opinion (which is exactly why more and more publishers are starting to reach out to various LPers in lieu of gaming journalists to give their own games more exposure), but that's another story for another time.

The excuses for why this game has failed so miserably in the sales department have all but evaporated once Metal Gear Rising came out and blew away expectations sales-wise. The last argument was hinging on the fact that third person character action games had no place in the industry anymore/the industry is in a terrible spot now to explain DmC extremely under-preforming, but now that MGR has come out a few weeks later and outsold DmC's entire month in its opening week - going so far as Kojima openly stating how impressed he was with the sales and wanting to do a sequel - there is really little other excuse left why the game has failed.

The game is by all accounts a great game that has received almost universal critical acclaim - an incredible 86 on Metacritic (by comparison MGR is sitting at an 80). Its marketing was on par with previous Capcom games (except of course the Resident Evil series) but it had way, way more people talking about it than any other DMC before it because of its controversial nature. The buzz on the internet leading up to its release invaded the most popular forums on the internet - even going so far as to have like three separate OTs on NeoGAF (one solely for the demo in November, one entirely for just the reviews alone, the actual OT, etc.) and it had incredible exposure. It was released in a time where it literally had no competition for an entire month and nothing else worth of note (other than Ni No Kuni - an even more niche title) was even on the horizon. And it still bombed horribly. What other reason could you possibly use an excuse other than Occam's Razor in that it had absolutely abysmal word of mouth by consumers and fans of the series which then did not buy it because of it?

This fucking thread is still happening?!

The word of almost universal praise from the gaming press is a lot stronger than the word of some idiots on 4chan.

The game probably didn't meet Capcom's expectations but that probably has more to do with their own unrealistic goals for the game. For what the game actually is, a character action game with little to zero marketing, it's done fine sales wise. And before you point me to DMC 4's sales numbers, look at the overall game sales in 2008 compared to now. They're down across the board. DMC 4 was released at this generation's peak, DmC was released at its death. Anyone who expected 2 million copies for this game (Capcom included) are seriously deluded.

The internet just likes to spin things into their little narrative and right now, DmC is the bad guy and the internet wants to celebrate its heroic victory.

@demoskinos: The RE audience is bigger than the DMC audience. At the same time, the DMC audience is bigger than you think. I mean, all the games in the series managed to sell 1-2 million copies each over their lifetimes, so surely there's a big enough fanbase out there to go for the new DmC. I mean come on, for a while before God of War came out, the wave of action games similar to DMC were called Devil May Cry clones (especially Legacy of Kain Defiance). Apparently, Capcom's shunning of the old fanbase PLUS the lack of marketing is what led to this game becoming a flop, despite all the critical acclaim. At the same time, maybe the larger audience that Capcom was looking for didn't care for the new game anyway.

You are deluded if you think that 4chan was the only place that held this game in contempt. Every major internet forum was against this game, ranging from NeoGAF to IGN. And again, this game had plenty of marketing. The only places that had positive discussion about this game in the majority were Ninja Theory's forums (who, granted, would frequently delete negative posts and topics), Capcom Unity, and devilmaycry.org (same story). We're also headed towards a consumer mindset that is more willing to listen to fellow consumer feedback on a game and take the hivemind into account when making a purchasing decision instead of blindly following the big review scores (especially so after these past few years of questionable high scores for certain games that had massive fan backlash).

And before you point me to DMC 4's sales numbers, look at the overall game sales in 2008 compared to now. They're down across the board. DMC 4 was released at this generation's peak, DmC was released at its death. Anyone who expected 2 million copies for this game (Capcom included) are seriously deluded.

Why has Call of Duty consistently outsold its previous iterations?

Why did Assassin's Creed 3 sell over seven million copies not just a few months ago?

Why is Metal Gear Rising fast on its way to break 1 million sales by next week?

No, clearly we are at this generation's death and that's why nothing is selling well at all. Clearly some random dude on the internet knows more than the analysts at Capcom who set those (extremely reasonable and theoretically do-able) projections of two million for DmC.

Also, implying that February of 2008 was the absolute peak of this entire generation is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read in this entire thread.

@milkman: Lots of fallacies there. DmC didn't receive little to zero marketing. There were adverts everywhere the first two weeks it came out. I remember because I was super annoyed cause I had to keep skipping them. As far as the effectiveness of word of mouth, it's the second most important factor for the average consumer when determining whether to purchase a game after the name of the franchise (because the universal praise from the gaming press means very little when all your friends are telling you it sucks). I really don't want to go into marketing lessons right now, but there's a reason why we target the so-called "evangelists."

Also what's this about the death of the generation? DMC4 was release near it's infancy (less than a year and a half after it began). Hardly the peak. And if your analogy about the death applied, other franchises would also be feeling it. But they're not. 2012 was the best year (sales-wise) for Assassin's Creed, Halo, CoD, and Mass Effect, among others.

@brighty: @enigma777: Devil May Cry isn't on the same level of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed or even a Metal Gear Solid spinoff. Pointing to the success of gigantic franchises like that proves nothing. DmC isn't even in the same discussion, popularity wise.

You can call me a random dude on the internet (I am) but the fact still remains that games sales are down and have been down for a long time. Look at the DmC's company on that list and you'll have any idea of what types of games are selling in the current market. The Halos, Call of Dutys and Mass Effects of the world are always going to sell. But the decline in sales of late is a fact.

In 2008 (when DMC 4 came out), video games sales topped $21 billion. To give some perspective, in 2007, sales were at $18 billion. It was a growing industry. In 2012, sales were a miniscule $13 billion, which was 22% drop from 2011. The games industry is effectively in recession. That is a HUGE difference.

But hey, maybe you guys are right. Maybe internet outrage really did kill DmC. If true, it's a goddamn shame because it's an absolutely fantastic game.

@milkman: Those sales figures include hardware. I think it makes sense that there's less hardware being sold now than back in 2008, since a lot of households might already own it already. Also they only track physical disks, and digital downloads have experienced sharp growth in the last couple of years. Not saying that there isn't an overall decline, but it's certainly not as sharp as you make it seem.

@milkman: Yes, we are in a bit of a recession, but you can't deny the effects that word of mouth has on this game as well. Especially with Ninja Theory's own PR regarding the making of this game (or lack thereof. They did a lot of insulting of the old games and the fans of them in order to hype their own game up big time).

@nettacki said:

I don't think you got the memo. Capcom and Ninja Theory are somehow entitled to your money. How dare people decline to buy their game!

I could say the same thing about the DmC sales presented in the OP. The truth is the only concrete sales numbers available would have to come from Capcom themselves. Both NPD and VG Chartz are flawed and really can only act as an estimate. It's clear that DmC didn't meet Capcom's expectations but it's hard to know what that really means.

I'm not sure what this comment even means. Every company wants you to buy their product or thinks they're "entitled" to your money. How is this any different?

FIXED

Was that sarcasm? I couldn't tell.

This company wanted the money of the people that love the series but didn't like what they said about the old games and their fanbase. I think that's the difference.

People get the games they deserve.

DmC is actually a great game. Those "fans" are ridiculous.

Well....this is America and capitalism is how the market works here. Capcom said fuck you to fans, fans didn't buy. It's basic business.

"a character action game with little to zero marketing"

Are you joking? Every website that I went to had ads all over the place and on youtube they played the DmC ad before every video I saw. I barely saw any advertising for Metal Gear Rising and it blew DmC out of the water. You can't be in denial this much.

@golguin:I don't get why this is so hard for people to believe. That's how the industry should work, if you like it...buy it. It's not that fucking hard. The majority of people said they didn't want this DmC, and they didn't buy. They spend that money on Ni No Kuni, MGR, and GOW:A.

Maybe Capcom should have listened to the consumers?

It's basic fucking business.

I'm not convinced that any Devil May Cry release, regardless of what was done with it or said about it, would've faired particularly well right now.

Maybe so, but it might have done better if the PR was handled better and they actually took fans suggestions into mind.

Why do you think that?

Bingo.

Because it seems all we're using for comparison is the sales of previous DmC games all of which were released in different ecomonies, at different stages of different console life cycles, with different levels of competition.

I see a lot of hypothetical sales lost due to a bunch of possible reasons but I'm just not convinced that even a true, fan-base-pleasing sequel would have moved millions of units right here, right now.

And honestly, there's really nothing in this thread but a bunch of assumptions and guesses.

If MGR and GOW:A sell well then no one is to blame but capcom.

You realize that what you are saying is crazy right? Do you expect all games to be released under the same circumstances and conditions? How is comparing this DmC with the other games in the series not valid and how would you define a valid comparison?

@golguin: It basically comes down to how well MGR and GOW:A do in sales this month. If they both bomb then yes, the fans didn't matter and it's just the industry and genre. However, if MGR and GOW:A sell great, then there's no question that Capcom fucked themselves in the asshole with a giant dildo with worms.

This was the easiest thing to not fuck up. They had THREE YEARS of feedback from fans about what they were doing was wrong.

I don't think there is one to be made.

So far Rising is reported to have sold over 800k in its opening week, and with Kojima himself saying he's extremely impressed with the sales figures and enthusiastic about a sequel, I'd say the game is selling very well indeed.

So you think there is no remote comparison by way of genre/reception/fan/sales/critical acclaim/previous games for DmC at all. So according to you, there's no way to disprove anything you've claimed in this thread. How convenient for you!

I never usually say this, but seriously. Fuck the fans. This new game is universally acclaimed by critics AND people who bought the damn game. The 'fans' are the ones that aren't listening.

...but the fans said they didn't want this game. I mean, shit...it's basic business. Make stuff your fanbase wants.

If that's true then it's not the industry or genre. Capcom fault. Capcom has no right to put the blame on anything else.

@deathswind: People are hoping Capcom just lays DMC to rest and doesn't rape it like they did with the Blue Bomber. The worst part is Capcom could've avoided all of this if they just listened.

*sigh* Not this shit again....

The "fans" are the ones who also turned their noses up at DMC 4 as well. So Capcom was in a lose/lose here and I'm sure they figured trying to broaden the appeal was the best bet. So good job everyone the only thing this ensured is that Capcom is going to quit trying to make DMC games period.

I remember the fans really liking DMC4 except for the part where you play through the entire game at that point as Dante in reverse. I don't remember them being up in arms about the gameplay or the rest of the game. Maybe Kyrie, maybe Nero (at first, then the hatred against him died down the more they played him), maybe the fact that there's more than a few unanswered questions in the series regarding Dante's family, but other than that, I don't remember most fans hating the game itself. If anything, the relative hatred for DMC4 only flared up more in recent times leading up to the release of DmC in some vain attempt at making it look like 4 was never a good game in the first place and DmC was gonna be awesome and the direction the series needed.

No dude. Not everyone who bought the damn game liked it. It's not "universally acclaimed" as you say it is. If anyone's not listening, it's you.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just saying that this sales comparison is a crazy narrow way of looking at what went wrong and doesn't really prove anything.

This is convenient for me in the same way that using previous DmC sales, with no regard for "place and time" is convenience for opponents of this game.

Well, they did and DMC 4 just had the good luck of having everyone in a froth after the masterpiece that was DMC 3. There was very much a tepid response. The only difference is that response didn't happen until AFTER everyone had played it.

Nice to see everyone's being real civil here. Geez, at this point, maybe it's better for the series to die. Then people can stop freaking out about it, and that's talking about both sides.

right now, everything is kinda bombing anyway

They did? Really? How can I trust you on this when it's clear you have something against old DMC fans that gave the game a chance and ended up hating it, let alone those who were personally insulted by Capcom/NT themselves?

@nettacki: There was an incredibly negative backlash against Nero when DMC4 first came out. To this day people haven't warmed up to him as much but rather kinda settled down a bit into thinking he's "not that bad" but they still just want to play Dante. At the time of release everyone was very upset and very vocal about having Nero in the game and especially that Nero had the Yamamoto and that you had to play through half the game to get to Dante etc etc. To say that "fans really liked DMC4" is not even brushing up against the reality of that game at time of release. Right now, years later, people have warmed up to the combat system, but both the story and level design is still some hot garbage for the most part. If anyone thinks that theres too much platforming in the new DmC, well, they can go back to rolling that dice on that giant game board around. (and yes I know you can choose what number to roll, but those levels were the absolute worst..a giant game board with dice.. )

@humanity: The worst part is, in a weird way they got everyone from hating Nero to hating Donte. Capcom won the battle when the south surrenders 50 years ago.

@humanity: Well maybe I've been hanging with the wrong set of fans, because I remember reading that the reaction to Nero, though negative at first, had most of the people realize that perhaps their hate was misplaced.