Anybody who says...

Man plays 10 minutes, is expert.

You are probably right, but that is only on the hardest difficulty, DA:O it seemed atleast to me that even the lower difficulties you had to employ some sort of strategy, and I played it on normal (yes I know I am terrible). And all I did was just nuke everything down, no micromanaging no nothing without much trouble excluding the odd bossfights that reminded me alot of World of Warcraft raid bosses which I am not sure is a good thing.

I think once more people start to realize that it's more of an action RPG, they may start to have fun with it. You can actually dodge in this game. How crazy is that? No more "Well, I initiated the attack, so no matter where he goes, it'll still hit!" It was pretty awesome running away from a boss and him not able to hit me, despite the fact he was trying. Such a small thing adds in so much depth to the gameplay. It's also pretty hard to get used to. I normally just stand there and get my face beat in, not even realizing that I can just run away and avoid being hit.
 
I'm having a pretty tough time with the game on Normal, so I'm never going to even think about touching Nightmare, unless there is a trophy involved.

" Man plays 10 minutes, is expert. "

So what you're saying is that this game becomes more like the better game on the hardest difficulty? Also it could be that you're just bad.

The combat actually is fine, but you haven't really even played through the game yet. So no, you don't know more than people who played 20 hours. You don't know enough to even have the discussion. You played as little of the game as possible with the intent, it seems, of disproving "haters", then jumped back onto the internet. If the game is so fun, why did you take a break to write an essay? Why does it matter how other people think? Do you have more fun talking about the game than playing it? Go play the game, come back in 10 hours and talk.

@blueduck:

" @Seppli:   You do realize that the people who have the complaints are generally the ones who have already seen the game to its climax right? If you want to get technical, after only playing the prologue your response is more one based in bias. Seems as if you may just be sucking the teet of Bioware just a little too much my friend. "

" lameplay "

" @Seppli said:

" lameplay "

Please never say this word again. "

Difficulty does not equal complexity, so the argument's invalid. An action game which involves walking in a straight line punching might be extremely difficult, but that doesn't make it deep or rewarding.
 
Dragon Age: Origins has more going on in terms of character builds and combat tactics. It was deeply flawed because the game is easily broken, and it was simplified in crucial respects, which is intensified with DA2. It's cool you like it, but arguing against diehard RPG players is a lost cause, they view the game with contempt and nothing you say will change that. I can enjoy it for what it is, but it's still not a style of RPG design I find valid or praiseworthy.

Especially the prologue shows how dumbed down the combat is. If you call running in circles with all your party members (because that is what you have to do) to avoid getting hit "expert micromanagement" then I cannot help you. The fact that most of your party will only have 2-3 skills at that point doesn't benefit tactical gameplay as well.
 
You should not call people biased after having played about 2 % of the game...

" @Khann said:

" @Seppli said:

" lameplay "

Please never say this word again. "

The word is lame, because it expresses exactly what it has to. The word is so good at its job, that you hate it as much as I hate the act it stands for.  It's a winner! Always winning. "

" Especially the prologue shows how dumbed down the combat is. If you call running in circles with all your party members (because that is what you have to do) to avoid getting hit "expert micromanagement" then I cannot help you. The fact that most of your party will only have 2-3 skills at that point doesn't benefit tactical gameplay as well.  You should not call people biased after having played about 2 % of the game... "

" @Seppli: Nothing to be frowned upon we all view the game differently. I enjoyed the game quite a bit actually but when it came time to review it I took a critical eye to the game. Can not pass over something that is possibly hindering the game just because I love the company who made it. For the most part Dragon Age 2 feels like an arcade game. For a while there I swear to god I was seeing more blood and chunked bodies than the remake to SplatterHouse.  Unless you are playing on Nightmare the game isn't anything more than a hack and slash fest mostly. I played a majority of the game on just hard, decided to keep my Nightmare Play-through for second, and I found a majority of this game to be a Backstab Spamming walk in the park. No real need for all those tactics you are working so hard to perfect. This was a disappointment to me because I remember parts of DA: O that were extremely difficult on hard and nightmare mode alike, but this one doesn't seem to have the same difficulty working against you. "

" @Seppli:  I actually did that. I spent my first two hours with the game on insane difficulty (because of my experience with DA:O) with about a dozen restarts in the prologue to check out what can be done and how the new combat system works out. Tried out all classes and every possible skill combination (there are not that many if you take a close look). I don't mind you liking the new system, but I felt calling people who feel like it is dumbed down "biased" to be wrong.  Eventually, you might feel the same way that I do. When I first started, I had hopes that the combat would become less tedious with the progression of the game, but actually it gets worse. To be honest, I was biased back then, because I thought, it is a game from the people who made ME2 and DA:O, it must be good. "

" @Seppli:  I'm assuming you are playing on PC? I tried to start in Nightmare on the PS3 and I couldn't make it past the first combat encounter. I'm playing on hard and only a little further into the game. I'm still fighting the camera, and pressing X repeatedly isn't helping me pay attention to the battlefield at all. My biggest problem is when the next wave of trash mobs swarm my ranged characters from behind while I'm off furiously marking time with basic attacks. "

" @Seppli:  Dude, thats exactly the way I did it. After being fed up with "quasi tactical" play, I tuned it down to button mash, visual style arcade mode and the combat did no longer keep me from enjoying the game. "

Thinking about it though. A skill & movement queue function would be a great addition for Insanity (since KotoR had skill queues, it's kind of an omission). Just imagine having 3 melees in your group and queing up 10 autoattacks on the 10 different foes. Just dudes zig-zaggin' all around the field in blade-frenzied blur.
 
Sexiness!

From what I played of the demo and what I saw from the quick look. DA2 still seems fun. I can't wait to get it.

No, the game has been simplified. Combat is now easy. I had to increase my difficulty about Normal to even get enjoyment out of the fights when in DA:O every fight in Normal was rewarding and challenging. Also the MMO-style hot bar is stupid.

" No, the game has been simplified. Combat is now easy. I had to increase my difficulty about Normal to even get enjoyment out of the fights when in DA:O every fight in Normal was rewarding and challenging. Also the MMO-style hot bar is stupid. "

that first fight against the ogre can be one with as little as 2 characters assuming at least one of them is ranged, same for one of the dragon bosses too. just kite and shoot with the player the boss is attacking.

" You are probably right, but that is only on the hardest difficulty, DA:O it seemed atleast to me that even the lower difficulties you had to employ some sort of strategy "

games only hard because enemies just keep constantly spawning, fuckin dumb

" @Prodstep said:

" You are probably right, but that is only on the hardest difficulty, DA:O it seemed atleast to me that even the lower difficulties you had to employ some sort of strategy "

On hard maybe (haven't tried it) but normal mode in DAO was a cakewalk once you realized how overpowered the mages were. I played though the entire base game and Awakening never having to even bother managing my team mates (except for healing and such). The cooldowns were fast as hell making it easy to just spam the same 5 or 6 spells over and over again. I'm not finding DA2 to be a harder game to be honest, and I wouldn't say the combat requires a lot of heavy strategy (again, I'm playing on normal), but I'm definitely jumping around my team mates a lot more and taking advantage of their abilities. Not only because the cooldowns are longer but also because all classes have very usefull skills now. Not to mention the cross class combos, which are a lot of fun to pull off. Also now, when you make a mistake, having to deal with that 30 seconds cooldown for healing potions can be pretty tense. You don't become invincible just by having 35 potions in you inventory, like in Origins. I guess not everyone had the same experience with DAO, but for me the combat was pretty boring to be honest. I'm having way more fun with DA2 so far. "

"Man plays 10 minutes, is expert. "

I am playing the game on Hard and it's pretty fucking difficult. That's actually because of the cheap enemy infantry spawns and large number of enemies. It's not because your tactics are bad.

Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?
 
Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen.

" No, the game has been simplified. Combat is now easy. I had to increase my difficulty about Normal to even get enjoyment out of the fights when in DA:O every fight in Normal was rewarding and challenging. Also the MMO-style hot bar is stupid. "

" games only hard because enemies just keep constantly spawning, fuckin dumb "

" I am playing the game on Hard and it's pretty fucking difficult. That's actually because of the cheap enemy infantry spawns and large number of enemies. It's not because your tactics are bad. "

@Ventilaator

" Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?  Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen. "

@CaptainCody

" @ryanwho said:

"Man plays 10 minutes, is expert. "

Oh dear god this, it took him more time to write his OP than to make what little progress he had. "

Just wait until you encounter one of those cheating assassins...the way they instagib you on every backstab they attempt, and boy do they unleash it with impunity, you will literally tear yout hair out to the last three. They obviously failed to test the game for balance on higher difficulties, and I am sure there will be balancing patches out very soon. 
The combat is simplified to the point of how every encounter follows a similar course of a fodder mob with stronger version of those sprinkled in, followed by spawning enemies out of thin air, rinse, clean, repeat. No matter where you move your characters, twitching to and fro to find any last remaining piece of legitimate tactical leverage, it'd be all for naught for most cases. 

"
 

@Ventilaator

said:

" Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?  Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen. "

 "

" Man plays 10 minutes, is expert. "

" Just wait until you encounter one of those cheating assassins...the way they instagib you on every backstab they attempt, and boy do they unleash it with impunity, you will literally tear yout hair out to the last three. They obviously failed to test the game for balance on higher difficulties, and I am sure there will be balancing patches out very soon. The combat is simplified to the point of how every encounter follows a similar course of a fodder mob with stronger version of those sprinkled in, followed by spawning enemies out of thin air, rinse, clean, repeat. No matter where you move your characters, twitching to and fro to find any last remaining piece of legitimate tactical leverage, it'd be all for naught for most cases.  "

" @Seppli said:

"
 

@Ventilaator

said:

" Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?  Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen. "

 "

Just because the hardest mode is hard doesn't mean that the game isn't dumbed down.
 
Heck, you can pick any game ever and play them on their hardest setting and find it difficult (With a few exceptions of course)  The fact that you need to go up to the most nightmarish mode of inevitable doom to get the same kind of strategic depth out of the game you got on Normal with Dragon Age: Origins is proof enough that the game was dumbed down. "

" @Ventilaator said:

" @Seppli said:

"
 

@Ventilaator

said:

" Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?  Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen. "

 "

Just because the hardest mode is hard doesn't mean that the game isn't dumbed down.
 
Heck, you can pick any game ever and play them on their hardest setting and find it difficult (With a few exceptions of course)  The fact that you need to go up to the most nightmarish mode of inevitable doom to get the same kind of strategic depth out of the game you got on Normal with Dragon Age: Origins is proof enough that the game was dumbed down. "

Dude - it's all about Friendly Fire.  DA:O only was at its full depth on hard or higher difficulty due to enabling 100% FF. While only Insanity has friendly fire in DA2 now, its friendly fire does include melee AoE, which DA:Os didn't. That's a step up in difficulty and gameplay relevant complexity - the opposite of dumbing down. Ain't an easy task to keep your own two-handed warrior from slicing and dicing his own crew and still remain effective. The only proof you're giving me is testament to your own stubborness to adapt and learn - since obviously you want a deeper more complex and demanding combat experience. It's there and it's called NIghtmare. Nobody but you is stopping your from having what you want. Of course I agree that enabling friendly fire for any difficulty setting seperatly in two steps, 50% FF and 100% FF, would be the awesome way to handle things.  Nightmare definitely ain't for the faint of heart. It didn't step over the line thus far, but I'd probably have just as good a time on hard setting with FF on. "

" @Seppli said:

" @Ventilaator said:

" @Seppli said:

"
 

@Ventilaator

said:

" Holy shit, you played it on the hardest setting and it was hard?  Stop the goddamn presses gentlemen. "

 "

Just because the hardest mode is hard doesn't mean that the game isn't dumbed down.
 
Heck, you can pick any game ever and play them on their hardest setting and find it difficult (With a few exceptions of course)  The fact that you need to go up to the most nightmarish mode of inevitable doom to get the same kind of strategic depth out of the game you got on Normal with Dragon Age: Origins is proof enough that the game was dumbed down. "

Dude - it's all about Friendly Fire.  DA:O only was at its full depth on hard or higher difficulty due to enabling 100% FF. While only Insanity has friendly fire in DA2 now, its friendly fire does include melee AoE, which DA:Os didn't. That's a step up in difficulty and gameplay relevant complexity - the opposite of dumbing down. Ain't an easy task to keep your own two-handed warrior from slicing and dicing his own crew and still remain effective. The only proof you're giving me is testament to your own stubborness to adapt and learn - since obviously you want a deeper more complex and demanding combat experience. It's there and it's called NIghtmare. Nobody but you is stopping your from having what you want. Of course I agree that enabling friendly fire for any difficulty setting seperatly in two steps, 50% FF and 100% FF, would be the awesome way to handle things.  Nightmare definitely ain't for the faint of heart. It didn't step over the line thus far, but I'd probably have just as good a time on hard setting with FF on. "

The only way for me to get through Dragon Age Origins WITHOUT pausing a lot at every fight was to play on easy. The only way for me to get through Dragon Age 2 and have the need to pause at all would be on the hardest difficulty. "

" @Tru3_Blu3: That's exactly how i felt. It felt like the game was cheating. An important aspect of a tactical approach is to know what you will encounter. "

" Oh please. The only thing that made DAO difficult was how goddamn stupid your teammates were, running into their own spells or mages running off for no reason into a hoard of enemies. Your A.I. teammates actually act the way they should on their own a lot better in DA2. "

" @McGhee_the_Insomniac said:

" Oh please. The only thing that made DAO difficult was how goddamn stupid your teammates were, running into their own spells or mages running off for no reason into a hoard of enemies. Your A.I. teammates actually act the way they should on their own a lot better in DA2. "

In fact that still happens. The reason is the same as it was in DA:O. If you create a tactic like "If you are being attacked by an enemy, use [insert spell here] on them". Now the enemy hordes spawn and lock on to their targets and immediately afterwards, your teammate runs off to fullfill his duty. The problem is, your teammates know if they are targeted by an archer or mage far away before you do. Because you rely on a visual indication while your AI buddies "know" they are being attacked from the core code. "

It is fun and sort of challenging on hard, but I think they use to many cheap tricks to make it challenging.
Assassin bosses that almost immediately stealth, and can almost one hit my rouge and mage.
So beware of assassins and mages, empathize on the latter, some of their small aoe spells is really powerful.
 
Also, not sure I like how effective kiting is.. :P
 
With all this, it is kinda fun, but you need throw out most of your DA:O mentality on how you play it, because it will probably not help you.
 
I wish they implemented respec potion :/