@KingWilly said:
@Jimbo said:
@KingWilly@Jimbo: I think you missed a pretty big point about the end of Dragon Age 2.
For instance, the point of the ending in DA2 was that Hawke served as the catalyst for the mage rebellion in Thedas. Either by siding with the mages and showing that the Templars can be challenged, and even cast down, or by invoking the Right of Annulment and being a merciless bastard. In either case, the world is left in chaos, and the Chantry is shitting its metaphorical pants.
Say what you will about the quality of DA2, but where it leaves Thedas (which is what these games have been about, your adventures in Thedas) is a pretty interesting place to branch out and explore many avenues for stories. Everything has gone to shit, the Qunari are just off the coast of Tevinter, and they've been waiting a long time to conquer the continent. I'm excited to see where we go from there.
I got the ending, it's just awful. Hawke (and worse, the player) are railroaded into being a catalyst (which makes your choices meaningless and the consequences feel weightless), but the driving force behind the whole thing is an evil magic sword and Anders being a dick (something else you have no influence over). It seems likely that shit would have gone down one way or the other regardless of whether Hawke was around or not. Everybody that matters just ignores Hawke the entire way through the game.
I disagree entirely. I very much enjoyed trying to salvage the situation as best I could. It wasn't a matter of Bioware taking choice away from me, as much as dreading that dark cloud of inevitability. You could argue that it was a mistake to force the player into that situation, but I ask, how many times have people complained about having too much influence over events in games? Hawke/the player was caught in the middle of a dire situation. I imagine people reacted how they normally would--they'd either get the hell out of dodge, or they'd try to make the best of a shitty situation. I absolutely loved trying to hold a shaky Jenga tower together. I knew it was going to fall eventually, but I tried to make it stand as long as I could.
As for Anders,
I really, really dug how his arc went. To say it was poorly written is to do both the character and DA2 a disservice. I was with Anders right until he blew up the Chantry, and that devastating, pants-shitting moment of betrayal is absolutely one of 2011's highlights for me. It made sense for the story, and it made sense for the character. The conflict of whether or not to start a revolution did lie in Anders, and Bioware did give you hints and clues all throughout Dragon Age 2 that Anders was a ticking time bomb ready to detonate. It was a major conflict in the game that you could try to guide as best as you could, but it was still a conflict in him, not you.
And here's the thing - everything that happens with Meredith, the mages, the templars, is directly instigated by Hawke's action in the Deep Roads. If he had never gone to Kirkwall, if he had never found that Lyrium Idol, Meredith would've never gone crazy and called for the Right of Annulment. So yeah, Hawke did have major influence over the events in DA2, just not in the way most RPG players are used to. You know, having it blow up in your face. For those reasons, I found DA2 to be a breath of fresh air, narratively speaking. I can understand why people didn't like where it went, but I feel that it's disingenuous to outright call DA2's story bad because the protagonist didn't reshape the world in their image.
But that's not why I'm calling it a bad story; I'm calling it a bad story because the world was reshaped by an evil magic sword. An evil magic sword which played a prominent role in the story for a total of about 4 minutes. If you include Anders then it was reshaped by an evil magic sword and a malevolent spirit.
I don't mind things blowing up in the players face - I think it would be fantastic if ME3 had endings where the Reapers win if you blindly went pure Paragon or pure Renegade- I mind it being preordained to blow up in your face regardless of your actions. That just makes it seem like it was a waste of time giving me any choices in the first place. There was literally no point in asking Hawke what he thought about anything at any point, because nobody listened and the outcome was set. You're correct that the journey changed, but the destination didn't. The answer to the typical player character having too much influence over the outcome of a story is not to give them no influence at all.
It also seems pretty questionable to me whether the lyrium idol / sword would have remained hidden just because Hawke wasn't around to make up the numbers on the Deep Roads expedition - he was only muscle after all. I see it as kinda like the Anders situation, where he really needs your help with blowing up the Chantry, but if you don't then never mind because actually he'll manage just fine without you. It kinda makes no sense why a pro-Templar Hawke wouldn't just shank Anders as soon as it becomes obvious what he has planned anyway (and it was very, very obvious).
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