@zeds_dead_baby: Blackwall is also a mass murderer, so.....

Stick with it if it made sense at the time. You can always take her next time if you play through again.

I was sorely tempted to turn her down too, but didn't on the off chance she becomes more tolerable at some point.

@sterling said:

I'm on the fence. I just met her and I'm kind of wishing that I had told her to fuck off. But Bioware has impressed me with depth in their characters in the past, and maybe there's something to this one. A character who hides behind a wall of shitty jokes isn't necessarily a bad character if they do something with it. Hell, that's basically the premise of the movie The Comedy, and I loved that. So I'll stick it out and see if I can crack that shell and see if she develops into something deeper, and if not I guess I'll just leave her at camp and use her bee jars.

lock yourself out of content, its your money.

But its not like they made any "you didn't recruit serah" missions. So all you did was make it so 4 or 5 missions never happen.

Don't like her humor, that's fine. I don't find quoting Monty Python 30 year old quotes funny, but clearly a lot of people do and won't stop doing it. They are to my life what Serah was to your game, only I can't remove them. People like different things. But people with the correct sense of humor can appreciate Serah. That's all.

Eh, I let her tag along and I haven't used her once, not when I've got someone awesome like Varrick, so, I wouldn't say you really missed out on a lot. Now if you had denied The Iron Bull, that, my friend, would have been a huge mistake.

Sera is neither really that interesting nor important to make a huge difference IMO.

I like a lot from Sera, but they mucked it up a bit in some places. One thing that really bothered me and some others was that she makes an offhanded transphobic remark at one point in the game. At the ball, she needlessly mocks someone being transgender alongside others having STDs, being abusive, and incestuous.

It's out of character, and your other characters just nod along. I would have accepted it being in there if there was at least the option to call it out. (It's a RPG afterall) Instead, your character is left being like, "Yeah, these people are real weirdos."

I think Sera can be funny at times, but I would say avoiding her(and some of the writing around her) isn't necessarily a terrible mistake.

@truthtellah said:

I like a lot from Sera, but they mucked it up a bit in some places. One thing that really bothered me and some others was that she makes an offhanded transphobic remark at one point in the game. At the ball, she needlessly mocks someone being transgender alongside others having STDs, being abusive, and incestuous.

It's out of character, and your other characters just nod along. I would have accepted it being in there if there was at least the option to call it out. (It's a RPG afterall) Instead, your character is left being like, "Yeah, these people are real weirdos."

I think Sera can be funny at times, but I would say avoiding her(and some of the writing around her) isn't necessarily a terrible mistake.

I think you're overreacting by calling those three words "transphobic." In that scene, the player doesn't even know who Sera is referring to or even what race they are, for that matter. We also don't know very much about her background or how her own culture treats these subjects, so saying that the line was "needlessly mocking" seems like an unfair and kneejerk mischaracterization.

Hating Sera? I don't get it.

@mb said:

@truthtellah said:

I like a lot from Sera, but they mucked it up a bit in some places. One thing that really bothered me and some others was that she makes an offhanded transphobic remark at one point in the game. At the ball, she needlessly mocks someone being transgender alongside others having STDs, being abusive, and incestuous.

It's out of character, and your other characters just nod along. I would have accepted it being in there if there was at least the option to call it out. (It's a RPG afterall) Instead, your character is left being like, "Yeah, these people are real weirdos."

I think Sera can be funny at times, but I would say avoiding her(and some of the writing around her) isn't necessarily a terrible mistake.

I think you're overreacting by calling those three words "transphobic." In that scene, the player doesn't even know who Sera is referring to or even what race they are, for that matter. We also don't know very much about her background or how her own culture treats these subjects, so saying that the line was "needlessly mocking" seems like an unfair and kneejerk mischaracterization.

While Sera does exhibit prejudice about some other things, bunching together someone being transgender as some kind of dark secret alongside STDs and bastard children is offensive. While including an offensive comment as part of a character is not inherently terrible, there is a problem when you can't respond to it in any way. It's completely unnecessary for the line and only hits transgender players. It's a needless mistake.

Dragon Age as a series has had issues with transgender subjects in the past, and while Inquisition is the best in this regard, a comment like that with no recourse or real purpose does hurt. It's common, even today, for being transgender to be referred to as some dark secret or joke, and it is hurtful to include in the game when you as the player have no agency to respond to it. You and the writer of the line may have the privilege of such a remark not bothering you, but for others like myself, it isn't that easy to just shrug off.

As a big fan of the game and even the character, I am bothered by its inclusion, and I wouldn't blame anyone else for taking issue with it as well.

She's the best character in that game, so yeah, that was a mistake.

@iceland_grrl: I'm glad you weren't bothered by it. Certainly stuck out to me and seemed quite unnecessary, but obviously, that's just my opinion. Otherwise, I think Sera is a fun character with some charming dialogue(especially with The Iron Bull).

(And welcome to GB!)

Despite her annoying and unfunny introduction, I accepted her offer to join me.. because thats what you do in a Bioware game. I didn't use her in my party though, and never had a single clue what the hell she was ever talking about whenever I had to talk to her in base camp. After doing her story mission however, I actually ended up kicking her out of the Inquisition - with pretty reasonable cause (without spoiling anything).

Also: I'm pretty sure her character is inspired by 'Mr. F' from Arrested Development, so when people tell me they romanced her.. hmm..

I don't understand why someone would deny ANYBODY from joining the party. If you don't like them just don't use them but don't stop them from joining...

@truthtellah: She also lists "extra toes" alongside the transgender remark. I think the point of that whole quip was that those are all things that would be viewed as scandalous in Orlesian high society. I don't think she was directly insulting those people, just highlighting how different the nobles are from their projected images. In other words she's poking fun at the dissonance itself, not the individual aspects she lists.

The sad thing is, that's not an uncommon association. Being transgender is referred to in that context in everyday media, along with other "dark and shameful secrets". It's casually referenced by people as some kind of joke or shame, and when Sera is being derisive toward every single other thing she mentions about Orlesian high society, it's not hard to associate them together as things worthy of shame. And despite being a game of many choices, you have no recourse to respond to it.

Inquisition actually attempts to portray a general acceptance of being transgender elsewhere, as it isn't treated as a big deal. That makes a comment like this even more noticeable. I don't think they were being intentionally malicious, but it reads as a mistake of someone not understanding how unnecessary and off-putting it is.

For additional context, I initially just thought of it as a little annoyance, but after it was brought up by a transgender fan on the official BioWare forum, it just blew up with people ranting about how transphobia should be fine in the game because there's transphobia in real life and telling her to shut up about being offended by it. Along with that, there were the usual folks chiming in that the game is already "pushing enough of an agenda" to not need to "pander" to transgender players and once again note that, if they're going to change anything about Sera, BioWare should allow men to be able to sleep with her.

Needless to say, people fervently defending it just made it worse, and it's a shame it seems like no one can bring up a concern like this without many people jumping in to explain how it being offensive doesn't matter or act like feeling that way about part of a game is some kind of attack they need to defend against.

You're taking a comment out of context for character, place, class, and time. If the comment is referring to things people keep secret, and as you said even now the general public treats it as a dark secret, I guess I don't see the discrepancy. There were probably transgendered people in the middle ages who kept it a secret. That would have been a skeleton in the closet for an aristocrat of high standing because at the time exposing that secret would do damage to their reputation. Essentially that hasn't changed, there are no openly trans politicians even now. Where a hard drinking merc probably wouldn't give a shit because they're not in the business of reputation, which is why Krem acts the way he does. If you want to be offended, fine, just understand you're taking every part of the comment out of context and commenting on it as if it were written in a 2014 news report. A lot of people who are actually trans arent bothered by the comment because they go through worse living life every day, seems like you have to be a little delusional to think "I thought we were past this" in 2014. Like, the fight hasn't even started yet. People aren't past race in 2014, gay people can't get married in 2014, and in 2014 you're taking this comment out of context and commentating as if we live in a post-transphobic world. A little naive.

@bargainben: I really don't know how to respond to some of the presumptions in your comment, but while you may think it's appropriate in the game, I'd ask that you not act like you speak for "a lot of people who are actually trans".

I don't "want" to be offended by it; I expressed that I was. It is my opinion that a fantasy setting doesn't have to require lines like that when they genuinely serve no purpose or allow for any recourse. The line would have made just as much sense without it. It's a lot better than some of the nonsense include in other games, but that doesn't excuse it.

A lot of people here have expressed disliking her dialogue, but the moment someone mentions a specific example of writing they were bothered by, you act like it's some huge thing that no one "actually trans" would care about. You should reevaluate why you care so much about dismissing my feelings on this and presuming to speak for those who are "actually trans". To me, it's not a big deal, but the more people like you dismiss criticism about it, the more it speaks to bigger concerns.

@truthtellah: I know you love to fight the good fight but I honestly think you're making a mountain out of a molehill which was essentially a single part of one throwaway line out of an entire game - a single line that wasn't even directly targetting transgendered individuals. You can't cherry pick that one specific part out and not comment on everything else. For instance "he beats his squire" is, if you want to get really hyperbolic about it, a really insensitive thing to say as violence towards minors (as squires usually were) is in no way less horrible than condescending remarks towards trans individuals, and why shouldn't adults who grew up in such households get seriously offended by it. Except quite obviously that is not what it's trying to say.

Also I'd like to add that after having beaten the game the answer is NO, you are not missing anything particularly interesting. Even though I romanced Sera, something I kind of regret as I honestly always felt almost embarrassed in front of the other AI characters whenever I open admitted this, I didn't find any of her personal story or ambient dialog the least bit interesting. IF anything I felt having her around was a waste as most other characters would have interesting idle banter while Sera would just blurt something out like a toddler. She has a really interesting subclass, but technically Cole is a better dual wielding rogue, and archers really get the short end of the stick in the game as there isn't a single subclass that has really useful archery skills, so not having her in the party isn't a huge loss either. For most major encounters and dragon fights you probably want two tanks anyway as rogues go down way too quick.

@humanity: The line implies that beating your squire is a terrible thing worthy of being a dirty little secret. Along with having STDs, being incestuous, and being transgender. I doubt anyone would say beating your squire or child is not a terrible thing; that's why it's included on a list of "dirty little secrets" of crooked Orlesian noblemen. Implying child abuse is bad isn't offensive; implying being transgender is bad is.

I merely said I thought it was unnecessary and offensive. I've suggested it was likely an oversight in an offhanded comment that detracts from the character for me personally in a thread of people discussing what they like and dislike about the character. The only ones making a mountain out of a mole hill are those going to lengths to defend it and dismiss how I and some other players feel about it as though the game needs defending. I already said I liked the game and even the character, and that's why it's unfortunate. The line would work just as well without that remark.

I'd say I'm relatively more laid back about it than some, as there are certainly worse examples in games and media, but despite that, some people still insist on acting like taking any offense at all is some great attack on them and a game they like. If I was angrier about it, people would say I'm overreacting, and if I was somehow even less critical of it, people would still say I'm overreacting. Because it isn't a matter of actually overreacting, it's a matter of some people taking issue with others feeling differently than they do about the games or characters they like.

@truthtellah: It's because you're taking this one tiny thing and twisting it into something that it really isn't. But I see you are very adamant about this so I'll leave it at that. Ultimately all writing is up for individual interpretation after all, and if thats the way you want to read into it then it's your right to do so.

@iceland_grrl: Because you can like something and still criticize it. A lot of game fans unfortunately don't seem to understand that. I think Dragon Age as a series has grown thanks to criticism from fans, and I hope they will grow even further.

@humanity: It's not a matter of "wanting" to read it that way; it's me reading it that way. That I responded negatively to something that didn't bother you isn't because I "wanted" to respond negatively; it's because, from my perspective, it's an issue.

Too many people dismiss criticism of things like sexism in games as just people "wanting" to be offended, but the reality is, some people are different and may have a different take on things than you do. I'd prefer if games didn't often demean women or insult transgender individuals; I certainly don't want to continue to see signs of prejudice in games.

As the last few months have reminded a lot of people in the gaming community, it may be more comfortable for some if people piped down and stopped sharing personal criticism, but as a person who loves games and is tired of being pressured to hush up about it, I'd rather be honest about what bothers me.

Pretty sure this thread already has numerous people talking about how they found her offputting in their own ways. I added in my opinion that I considered her funny but with some bad writing tossed in, too. One of those examples being the remark I mentioned. Not sure why it has to be treated as some big deal that I have to fight for when it's an opinion on the character like everyone else in this thread.

I think you mean The Iron Bull, technically. He likes having an article in front.

I'm just expressing my opinion on it, and others, such as yourself, are making more of a big deal out of it than I did. I mean, these are your first comments on this forum ever. Seemingly creating an account just to tell me off is making more of this than me simply saying something bothered me in the game. It's okay if no one else takes issue with it(and I'm glad that's the case for you), but I should be able to bring it up without people jumping on me just to dismiss what I have to say and defend a single line of dialogue in a videogame.

My opinion is my own. You speak for yourself, and I speak for me. There's no reason to make this into a bigger deal than it is. We're on a silly videogame forum for goodness sakes.

@iceland_grrl: Yeah, Bargainben's comment more bothered me, but you still chose to have your first comments be insulting ones toward me, dismissing my concerns. Your implication that no one of consequence cared about it just because you didn't care about it was not alright.

I'm still a human being whether you disagree with me or not, and you don't get to speak for all trans individuals. You made a mountain out of a mole hill in trying to defend one line of dialogue I didn't like. You can like it if you want, but please don't act like I have to like it.

Also, do you follow me on Twitter? Sure my tweets are open, but you'd have to have pursued finding that tweet, as I never mentioned names or where I was talking about. That's kind of creepy.

@iceland_grrl: I hear you. It's clear this is more about your feelings on me than the topic of this thread. At this point, I'd ask you to please stop this and not reply to me further. I won't be replying again.

Well this thread turned out well.