Mages are not underpowered, I am a liar!

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Sterling

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@sterling said:

So I started a new character tonight, a rogue on nightmare. Fuck that noise. I'm going back to a mage for my nightmare run. I died so many times in the tutorial area. I've gotten so used to using a mage that I can't handle the melee combat for some reason.

I thought Archer was a lot of fun & I think you might like one too. Basically like a physical-based mage that is very mobile during fights (can move while you attack rather than being rooted to the ground like a mage) and relies less on ability CD's while doing more DMG with regular attacks; they're made to initiate combat too, so is a good pick for your character/spend most time controlling. Also it's Archer. Get it, Sterling? Get it? Yeah.

If only I could play as a magical Archer. Or maybe I should spend the next 20 hours trying recreate Archers likeness in game.

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altairre

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@sterling said:

So I started a new character tonight, a rogue on nightmare. Fuck that noise. I'm going back to a mage for my nightmare run. I died so many times in the tutorial area. I've gotten so used to using a mage that I can't handle the melee combat for some reason.

I thought Archer was a lot of fun & I think you might like one too. Basically like a physical-based mage that is very mobile during fights (can move while you attack rather than being rooted to the ground like a mage) and relies less on ability CD's while doing more DMG with regular attacks; they're made to initiate combat too, so is a good pick for your character/spend most time controlling. Also it's Archer. Get it, Sterling? Get it? Yeah.

Well it depends on what kind of archer you're going for but later in the game they're absolutely reliant on their abilities and CD management is extremely important. You want a high crit rate if you're playing an archer (though that's true for rogue in general) since a few important passives are tied to critical hits. There is one that gives you stamina per critical hit and the artificer has probably the best one that reduces cooldown for every critical hit. Combine that with leaping shot which hits 12 times and a crit chance of let's say 50% (mine is higher than that) and you won't run out of stamina or have to worry about cooldowns ever again. Then there is the passive that resets the cooldown on stealth for every kill. At this point I rarely use the basic attack because while the damage is not bad it's nothing compared to abilities like full draw, leaping shot or hidden blades (which I use since I went with the assasssin specialisation). That being said the point about mobility is definitely true. The other classes are more or less stationary during the fight while the archer relies on taking advantage of height differences and positioning (you have to be fairly close to a target if you want every leaping shot arrow to hit).

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Musubi

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@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

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Sterling

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@demoskinos: I'm pretty sure that is just the one from the Ice tree. The one where you turn into a running blur. Its on the top right.

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Musubi

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@sterling: Is it? Huh. I was under the impression that was a KE ability for some reason.

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Sterling

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@demoskinos: Unless you are referring to something else in the video I missed. But ya the running blur thing is on the Ice tree. I was using that early game. Running through bears to freeze them in the Hinterlands.

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ll_Exile_ll

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#57  Edited By ll_Exile_ll

@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

That fade step ability sucks. It's basically used to avoid all damage for a split second. I got use out of it a couple times when a Dragon's fireball was heading right at me and another to absorb a giant's rock throw, but otherwise it's not that useful with the KE's already beastly tanking ability. It only last like 2 seconds, so unless you anticipate massive damage incoming it doesn't have much use (and again, KE can tank almost anything with the barrier abilities anyway, so it's not really needed).

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altairre

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#58  Edited By altairre

@ll_exile_ll said:

@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

That fade step ability sucks. It's basically used to avoid all damage for a split second. I got use out of it a couple times when a Dragon's fireball was heading right at me and another to absorb a giant's rock throw, but otherwise it's not that useful with the KE's already beastly tanking ability. It only last like 2 seconds, so unless you anticipate massive damage incoming it doesn't have much use (and again, KE can tank almost anything with the barrier abilities anyway, so it's not really needed).

I second this but you're talking about the fade cloak. You really don't need that ability and the damage you do with the upgrade is not worth it. You're better off slashing fools with the spirit blade. The upgraded fade step however (which is indeed a winter tree skill) is extremely useful to close distance and freeze/chill groups of enemies before you engage them. Once you have clean burn and the other cooldown reduction passive (that is in the winter tree as well I think) you can zip around all over the battlefield which is really satisfying.

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pubbles

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@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

Fade Step - and the Upgraded Frost Step (300% damage if you go through someone)

@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

That fade step ability sucks. It's basically used to avoid all damage for a split second. I got use out of it a couple times when a Dragon's fireball was heading right at me and another to absorb a giant's rock throw, but otherwise it's not that useful with the KE's already beastly tanking ability. It only last like 2 seconds, so unless you anticipate massive damage incoming it doesn't have much use (and again, KE can tank almost anything with the barrier abilities anyway, so it's not really needed).

I find it immensely useful for the extra 1000% Spirit damage (which you can still be attacking while using it) as well as positioning, because you can walk through enemies to their other side. You avoid all damage and any CC effects - and with clean burn it's cooldown is ridiculously short where you can have it up maybe 70% of the fight.

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Deathstriker

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#60  Edited By Deathstriker

@pubbles said:
@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

Fade Step - and the Upgraded Frost Step (300% damage if you go through someone)

@ll_exile_ll said:

@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

That fade step ability sucks. It's basically used to avoid all damage for a split second. I got use out of it a couple times when a Dragon's fireball was heading right at me and another to absorb a giant's rock throw, but otherwise it's not that useful with the KE's already beastly tanking ability. It only last like 2 seconds, so unless you anticipate massive damage incoming it doesn't have much use (and again, KE can tank almost anything with the barrier abilities anyway, so it's not really needed).

I find it immensely useful for the extra 1000% Spirit damage (which you can still be attacking while using it) as well as positioning, because you can walk through enemies to their other side. You avoid all damage and any CC effects - and with clean burn it's cooldown is ridiculously short where you can have it up maybe 70% of the fight.

Yeah, for a knight enchanter it's a great way to close the distance and do some damage. Getting charging bull for a warrior follows the same logic. My hero was a rift mage and I got it for him. With fade step I was able to solo the first giant you run into since it had killed everyone else. I would've died without that skill and it saved me numerous other times.

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selfconfessedcynic

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@deathstriker said:

@pubbles said:
@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

Fade Step - and the Upgraded Frost Step (300% damage if you go through someone)

@ll_exile_ll said:

@demoskinos said:

@pubbles: Question(s) how do you do the teleport thing with KE? Or is that ability only on the PC KE ability tree? I was looking at Vivienne's tree and not sure what ability that is. Also the ability where you jump into the fade I'm sort of lost as to how to actually effectively use it.

That fade step ability sucks. It's basically used to avoid all damage for a split second. I got use out of it a couple times when a Dragon's fireball was heading right at me and another to absorb a giant's rock throw, but otherwise it's not that useful with the KE's already beastly tanking ability. It only last like 2 seconds, so unless you anticipate massive damage incoming it doesn't have much use (and again, KE can tank almost anything with the barrier abilities anyway, so it's not really needed).

I find it immensely useful for the extra 1000% Spirit damage (which you can still be attacking while using it) as well as positioning, because you can walk through enemies to their other side. You avoid all damage and any CC effects - and with clean burn it's cooldown is ridiculously short where you can have it up maybe 70% of the fight.

Yeah, for a knight enchanter it's a great way to close the distance and do some damage. Getting charging bull for a warrior follows the same logic. My hero was a rift mage and I got it for him. With fade step I was able to solo the first giant you run into since it had killed everyone else. I would've died without that skill and it saved me numerous other times.

I would note that Fade Step can be used to tank like mad if you use Spirit Blade as your primary damage skill (as you generally should as a KE IMO). Combine it with Clean Burn (half way down the Inferno tree) which shortens recharge of spells by 1s for every spell cast (ie, Spirit Blade) and you can be invulnerable / doing 1000% weapon damage very, very frequently.

Ie, invulnerable 2s out of every 4-5 seconds and doing 1000% weapon damage each rotation.

Sure it costs some points, but the Inferno tree is the best base tree anywho (again, IMO).

EDIT: Beaten to it at the end of @ll_exile_ll 's post :P

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gamerakakings

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So i just wanted yo say the most powerful classes in the game or my opinion are mages and rogues. And my opinion is based on this ive watched alot of videos showing how to built up iron bull and make him a beast yet he constantly dies no matter what then i go over to vivienne and she is a beast i mean i beat the highland ravager with my rogue and vivienne only she was not only constantly supporting she was also doing a bunch of krits. But know for the people who think mages are the best and rogues are weak im telling you this a rogue is extremely strong if the player uses him because i dont need stealth as some ppl were saying that without stealth a rogue is screwed i dont need it to take out my target that what death mark and hidden blade are there for and also rogues have the biggest krits why because the rogue mainly concentrates on getting the enemy and then taking them out. so basicly it would go like this rogues are the most offensive in the game mages are the balance warriors concentrate on defense now im not saying mages suck but thats how it would be ranked.

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