I think this is something we'll miss if it goes away and something that could cause a complete cleansing of the show floor. Does the sex aspect of E3 get out of hand? Yes. But the booth babes can be fun. Companies like Capcom shouldn't have pole dancing in their demo rooms though.
Everyone's trying to sit on their high horse, but the babes can be fun and attract people to the games in a cool way. I think people forget that gaming is a largely "male" passtime/hobby and as soon as something like this is brought up it can cause quite a stir. Who am I to say I guess. If everyone's sick of it, why not get rid of them. I just find the idea entertaining and not because i objectify women.
The booth babe is a left-over of the days (presumably past), where showing big corporate customers (respectively their taste-makers) a good time, was how business was being done.
What Patrick wants is more of a 'growing out of', rather than actually 'growing up'. Grown up red blooded men would want E3 to happen in a mall-sized brothel, and instead of stupid expensive booths and booth babes, there'd be a free-for-all whore-a-thon of Roman proportions.
I'd be down with that, if I was invited. Think about it!
I hope this doesn't get lost under a torrent of "ITS NOT A BIG DEAL JEEZ" and "WELL THEY WERENT FORCED TO DO IT", but I really want to thank you for this, Patrick. My fiance is really into gaming as well but she is put off by a lot of sexist bullshit (Miranda's ass CONSTANTLY IN YOUR FACE, rape threats to Catwoman, etc) and she can't even game online for fear of harassment. I'm hoping this is another step forward to getting gamer culture a step forward and hopefully getting gamers to tackle the larger societal issues that cause these sort of things in the first place. So really, I thank you Patrick, and I hope more gaming journalist fall in line with these sorts of progressive ideals.
Patrick, one of the first parties needed to make E3 "grow up" are game journalists themselves.
.....
Also, the glad handing. Yes, you touch on the DMC stripper, but there's also the issue of backstage demos giving out things like food and beer. That's a bribe, plain and simple, and violates basic journalistic ethics.
It's called perks. Grow up. Just because stuff like that goes on it does not mean it interferes with a journalists integrity. Especially at conventions like these. It's a different story if the company does all this and then tells you to write a review before you leave. Watch some of the quick looks or Jeff's Jar videos -- he sometimes mentions that he goes out of his way to purchase a game for this exact reason.
"— Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and shun secondary employment, political involvement, public office and service in community organizations if they compromise journalistic integrity."
Claiming that you're magically incapable of being corrupted is foolish, and ignores basic human nature. Any nice favor like that will color one's reactions.
.......
Don't be sad because you didn't get to hang out with all the girls at E3 because you are too proud. This is a video game site ran by Average Joes which is pretty much EVERY video game site. E3 is a convention for crying out loud. It's there to have fun and see games. Even with all the perks that go on, this site is pretty damn good by keeping things unbiased. Perhaps you don't know the history of Jeff and Gamespot. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.
You're projecting your own frustrations onto me. I wasn't attacking anyone on this site. The only site I specifically mentioned was for Destructoid. I'm just trying to say that the kind of obvious bribes and behavior of certain sites reflects poorly on us all, and if you want E3 to start growing up, you need to stop the blatant glad handing and cull the creepers.
Edit: If you want games "journalists" to actually be treated like journalists, and want games to be taken seriously, there needs to be some basic ethics in place.
Patrick, one of the first parties needed to make E3 "grow up" are game journalists themselves.
When Destructoid gets to literally go around "chest bumping" booth babes, something's incredibly wrong. Frankly, it makes me embarassed to even like video games when garbage like that is allowed to occur without industry-wide ostracizing.
Also, the glad handing. Yes, you touch on the DMC stripper, but there's also the issue of backstage demos giving out things like food and beer. That's a bribe, plain and simple, and violates basic journalistic ethics.
Games press in general is way too chummy with the industry it covers. For all the fanboy conspiracy theory-mongering that goes on in the comments of reviews because one game gets a 9.4 and the other gets a 9.2, I'm surprised people aren't more bothered by this.
Because it's personal preference based on the reviewer who is reviewing it? It would be much different if it was 5 reviewers all reviewing the same game and then having a base score on that. There used to be a magazine that did that, but I forget its name as it has been like 12 years since I purchased a magazine. I love Battlefield, but don't care much about Modern Warfare so it probably wouldn't be a shock if my battlefield review was a little bit better than a Modern Warfare review I had to do. Also, I don't review and all this hypothetical.
Hey guys! Remember after E3 2006, when the industry decided it would be better to make a smaller, more business oriented show? Remember how journalists just loved it and no one complained about how soulless it had become?
Yeah. The people at fault are the god damned journalists who protested the loss of their precious fucking spectacle.
Thank you! The people that can actually do something about this are the game "journalists" as they are the ones that provide the coverage. But I guess they're too drunk or to busy making booth babe montages to care.
Hey guys! Remember after E3 2006, when the industry decided it would be better to make a smaller, more business oriented show? Remember how journalists just loved it and no one complained about how soulless it had become?
Yeah. The people at fault are the god damned journalists who protested the loss of their precious fucking spectacle.
That's what I was thinking. We already had that E3, people (journalists, too) didn't like it.
Hey guys! Remember after E3 2006, when the industry decided it would be better to make a smaller, more business oriented show? Remember how journalists just loved it and no one complained about how soulless it had become?
Yeah. The people at fault are the god damned journalists who protested the loss of their precious fucking spectacle.
Thank you! The people that can actually do something about this is the game "journalists" as they are the ones that provide the coverage. But I guess they're too drunk or to busy making booth babes montages to care.
Yah, you have a point. ESA tryed to do something about the show.
Hey guys! Remember after E3 2006, when the industry decided it would be better to make a smaller, more business oriented show? Remember how journalists just loved it and no one complained about how soulless it had become?
Yeah. The people at fault are the god damned journalists who protested the loss of their precious fucking spectacle.
This isn't gonna stop right? I think I'm done with videogame!... media so cash in quickly into the sexism headlines before everybody forgets about the Tomb Raider/Hitman stuff and then don't talk about this issue again because that's what you've been doing, last E3 wasn't like that right? oh yeah it was but no one said anything because the sexism stuff just blew up a few days ago.
Patrick, one of the first parties needed to make E3 "grow up" are game journalists themselves.
When Destructoid gets to literally go around "chest bumping" booth babes, something's incredibly wrong. Frankly, it makes me embarassed to even like video games when garbage like that is allowed to occur without industry-wide ostracizing.
Also, the glad handing. Yes, you touch on the DMC stripper, but there's also the issue of backstage demos giving out things like food and beer. That's a bribe, plain and simple, and violates basic journalistic ethics.
Games press in general is way too chummy with the industry it covers. For all the fanboy conspiracy theory-mongering that goes on in the comments of reviews because one game gets a 9.4 and the other gets a 9.2, I'm surprised people aren't more bothered by this.
Because it's personal preference based on the reviewer who is reviewing it? It would be much different if it was 5 reviewers all reviewing the same game and then having a base score on that. There used to be a magazine that did that, but I forget its name as it has been like 12 years since I purchased a magazine. I love Battlefield, but don't care much about Modern Warfare so it probably wouldn't be a shock if my battlefield review was a little bit better than a Modern Warfare review I had to do. Also, I don't review and all this hypothetical.
You didn't understand what he was saying.
He said that, despite all the "9.5 paid review" cries you hear from fanboys, you don't hear much about the glad handing that I mentioned, which is a pretty serious issue.
Hey, they were available there to hold the camera and take a picture of Ryan Davis and someone else! That's kind of a valuable service, I'm sure it happens all the time and not that one isolated case in the entire history of the show.
Biologically speaking women are sex objects. Until the male brain is wired differently or we're all gay looking at half naked nathan drake cosplayers they will be objectified in all media for all time, obviously not ALL portrayals will fit this. Not to say men are any different. If the genitalia of both sexes could come off and go at it to propagate our species on it's own, the rest of us really wouldn't be needed, since the only point there are the two sexes is so we could survive. Not to sound like the caveman scientist here, but I just don't give a flying fuck anymore.
Women buy a webcam, get their own site and then charge money to "objectify themselves" all the time. If you want to make fun of nintendo for being either sexist or plain out ignorant go ahead, I fully agree and laugh at the fact that they had ZERO 3ds stations. If you think during anyone's life time skin will stop being used to market anything and everything, I think you better not hold you breath.
When the fuck do I get to get on my soap box(more aimed at general women being displeased than patrick here) saying how I hate every damn male character has a 6 pack and benches 300lbs with the bulge the size of an elephant in his pants? Or how he is supposedly smart, rich, funny, has ladies falling over him and is the action movie star dream? Do men just care less and women are too catty, or is it that men are protective of women so as soon as they say something we all fall over in defense of them?
Why do guys always get the blame for women deciding to dress like sluts? We don't force women to do this shit.
They do it they own self.. and STILL you try to defend their shit. Stop putting women on the pedestal while they piss on you from the top, and get paid for it too.
Great article, Patrick is showing that just because you're a video game journalist doesn't mean you have to write mindless garbage. Compare something like this to one of IGN's "who's the hottest {blank] in [blank] of all time", which are always enlightening.
Hey guys! Remember after E3 2006, when the industry decided it would be better to make a smaller, more business oriented show? Remember how journalists just loved it and no one complained about how soulless it had become?
Yeah. The people at fault are the god damned journalists who protested the loss of their precious fucking spectacle.
I wish the industry was mature enough to tackle this stuff responsibly, but I just don't think it is. The 3DS tethering stuff might be the most distasteful, seems needlessly uncomfortable for all parties involved. Penny Arcade has it right - if you feel it's important to have girls around to attract people (guys) to your booth, they should at least be a representative of the company or have some meaningful insight on the product they're displaying.
All of these conversations popping up about the role of women in games, Tomb Raider, booth babes and ultraviolence as a core part of AAA experiences are healthy and I hope that as gamers continue to diversify and simply grow up, we'll drag along the sophomoric marketing and pandering along with us.
The whole notion is ridiculous. It's a free country. The organizers shouldn't have any input as to how people choose to advertize their products, as far as they're staying within legal boundaries. Consumers can choose to eliminate such behaviour, and they won't, because no one cares. This is a non-issue and people need to stop bringing it up.
I would be more willing to make comments on this subject if I didn't already know perfectly well this entire issue will be treated like a fad by video game sites at large, and cease speaking about it with such frequency in one months time, only revisiting it if some new controversy sparks up now and then.
Patrick, one of the first parties needed to make E3 "grow up" are game journalists themselves.
When Destructoid gets to literally go around "chest bumping" booth babes, something's incredibly wrong. Frankly, it makes me embarassed to even like video games when garbage like that is allowed to occur without industry-wide ostracizing.
Also, the glad handing. Yes, you touch on the DMC stripper, but there's also the issue of backstage demos giving out things like food and beer. That's a bribe, plain and simple, and violates basic journalistic ethics.
Games press in general is way too chummy with the industry it covers. For all the fanboy conspiracy theory-mongering that goes on in the comments of reviews because one game gets a 9.4 and the other gets a 9.2, I'm surprised people aren't more bothered by this.
Because it's personal preference based on the reviewer who is reviewing it? It would be much different if it was 5 reviewers all reviewing the same game and then having a base score on that. There used to be a magazine that did that, but I forget its name as it has been like 12 years since I purchased a magazine. I love Battlefield, but don't care much about Modern Warfare so it probably wouldn't be a shock if my battlefield review was a little bit better than a Modern Warfare review I had to do. Also, I don't review and all this hypothetical.
I hope this doesn't get lost under a torrent of "ITS NOT A BIG DEAL JEEZ" and "WELL THEY WERENT FORCED TO DO IT", but I really want to thank you for this, Patrick. My fiance is really into gaming as well but she is put off by a lot of sexist bullshit (Miranda's ass CONSTANTLY IN YOUR FACE, rape threats to Catwoman, etc) and she can't even game online for fear of harassment. I'm hoping this is another step forward to getting gamer culture a step forward and hopefully getting gamers to tackle the larger societal issues that cause these sort of things in the first place. So really, I thank you Patrick, and I hope more gaming journalist fall in line with these sorts of progressive ideals.
How is this sexist? WTF do you think a scumbag criminal is going to do? Respect her?
There's a difference between what you describe (which is basically sexy cosplay) and directly hiring people to use sex appeal to get a game attention. One's a character act and a show of pride. The other is just whoring and pandering.
Auto shows have booth babes and that's been a thriving industry for over a century. It's a dumb practice, but it probably works enough for companies to justify keeping it around.
But modeling is a legitimate career and women can choose to go into it, remember. If you're in that line of work, I'm sure your aware that people will be focusing on your looks.
Yeah video games is a assault on male self esteem I mean I'm in good shape but it's impossible not to compare all those giant muscle bound meat heads and pretty boys.
I haven't been so I don't know how "in your face" they are with them but it looks like they aren't going away so you should just try to ignore them and don't give them any attention, then maybe the problem will fix itself
Biologically speaking women are sex objects. Until the male brain is wired differently or we're all gay looking at half naked nathan drake cosplayers they will be objectified in all media for all time, obviously not ALL portrayals will fit this. Not to say men are any different. If the genitalia of both sexes could come off and go at it to propagate our species on it's own, the rest of us really wouldn't be needed, since the only point there are the two sexes is so we could survive. Not to sound like the caveman scientist here, but I just don't give a flying fuck anymore. Women buy a webcam, get their own site and then charge money to "objectify themselves" all the time. If you want to make fun of nintendo for being either sexist or plain out ignorant go ahead, I fully agree and laugh at the fact that they had ZERO 3ds stations. If you think during anyone's life time skin will stop being used to market anything and everything, I think you better not hold you breath. When the fuck do I get to get on my soap box(more aimed at general women being displeased than patrick here) saying how I hate every damn male character has a 6 pack and benches 300lbs with the bulge the size of an elephant in his pants? Or how he is supposedly smart, rich, funny, has ladies falling over him and is the action movie star dream? Do men just care less and women are too catty, or is it that men are protective of women so as soon as they say something we all fall over in defense of them?
Sorry bro you should have taken a right. This post is clearly meant for Reddit.
Sorry, but this is kind of bullshit, right? I mean you attend E3, therefore you are part of the problem. No if's, no but's. If the booth babes get to you so much, don't go to E3 and write why you didn't. Not realistic, you say? Tough cookies. You're part of the enthusiast press, that's how it works. 99% of people writing about games aren't journalists. Patrick is one of the few exceptions and I respect his work, but it's simply not the norm: the press is a glorified mouthpiece for the industry, sure, with its own opinions, but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to enthusiast press.
I don't mean to say the rampant sexism in gaming, and the communities in particular, doesn't need to be addressed, but the booth babes are about the least of our worries when it comes to that. Look at cosplay galleries, there are thousands of women who dress up provocatively because they enjoy it. And these models surely know what they're getting into. Having the ESA issue some mandate that booth babes aren't allowed will not fix the issue, and it's the wrong way to go about it. Like I said, if the press were really serious about this specific thing (they're not, but it's a nice talking point and a way to say "we're not about that", which is well and good), they'd not go to E3. But the earth will freeze over and explode before that happens.
EDIT: And that ASUS tweet is fucking gross. How does that even happen?
The only solution is for there to be male booth babes! I know, I know; we'll need to think of a better name for them but the only solution to sexism is equal objectification for all.
The whole notion is ridiculous. It's a free country. The organizers shouldn't have any input as to how people choose to advertize their products, as far as they're staying within legal boundaries. Consumers can choose to eliminate such behaviour, and they won't, because no one cares. This is a non-issue and people need to stop bringing it up.
You realize that is not how the law works. Companies renting a booth in the convention center agrees to the code of conduct set forth by the people that run it. The ESA is well within their legal rights to force companies to dance to their tune at the convention just as a restaurant is well within its legal right to enforce a dress code.
I hope this doesn't get lost under a torrent of "ITS NOT A BIG DEAL JEEZ" and "WELL THEY WERENT FORCED TO DO IT", but I really want to thank you for this, Patrick. My fiance is really into gaming as well but she is put off by a lot of sexist bullshit (Miranda's ass CONSTANTLY IN YOUR FACE, rape threats to Catwoman, etc) and she can't even game online for fear of harassment. I'm hoping this is another step forward to getting gamer culture a step forward and hopefully getting gamers to tackle the larger societal issues that cause these sort of things in the first place. So really, I thank you Patrick, and I hope more gaming journalist fall in line with these sorts of progressive ideals.
How is this sexist? WTF do you think a scumbag criminal is going to do? Respect her?
This is a terrible defense and this argument is a tired one. Honestly it wouldn't have even been so bad if it was said once or twice but hearing it every goddamn couple of minutes during the Catwoman sections is dumb.
Like really not. Most people just tend to ignore them and if fanboys want to grab a pic, let them, it's what they want to do. You see them at Comic-Con and you never hear how Comics/Movies need to grow up and they have a ton of strong female characters and trashy ones as well. But in gaming... everyone is so squeamish.
Yeah video games is a assault on male self esteem I mean I'm in good shape but it's impossible not to compare all those giant muscle bound meat heads and pretty boys.
Same thing, you're right.
@HolyCrapItsAdam said:
I haven't been so I don't know how "in your face" they are with them but it looks like they aren't going away so you should just try to ignore them and don't give them any attention, then maybe the problem will fix itself
Yeah, that's the way the world works. Ignoring it makes things better!
@TyCobb yes and lobbists "donating millions of dollars to politicians campaigns have no impact on how they do their jobs these are not bribes because they don't directly ask them to do something for them.
oh boy here comes the tide of sniveling white knights screaming at each other about maturity in their hypersensitive PC echo chamber
Fuck, give it a rest. Or starch up your black-n-whites and show up to 2013 E3 in full puritan dress code. Thump on a bible every now and then and glare at people while you tell them how they should be thinking and living their lives.
Sorry, but this is kind of bullshit, right? I mean you attend E3, therefore you are part of the problem. No if's, no but's. If the booth babes get to you so much, don't go to E3 and write why you didn't. Not realistic, you say? Tough cookies. You're part of the enthusiast press, that's how it works. 99% of people writing about games aren't journalists. Patrick is one of the few exceptions and I respect his work, but it's simply not the norm: the press is a glorified mouthpiece for the industry, sure, with its own opinions, but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to enthusiast press.
And what if you're a woman working on a game who feels uncomfortable at the show as it's currently constructed? Is it tough cookies, just stay home for them as well?
Would it be more acceptable if it would be booth dudders:
Aw, man! I want to be a booth Duder! Also, now you guys have to look at this picture again.
As dumb as this is, I... can't... look... away...
@tourgen said:
oh boy here comes the tide of sniveling white knights screaming at each other about maturity in their hypersensitive PC echo chamber
Fuck, give it a rest. Or starch up your black-n-whites and show up to 2013 E3 in full puritan dress code. Thump on a bible every now and then and glare at people while you tell them how they should be thinking and living their lives.
Oh boy, here come the snarling overcompensating anti-PC people who, oh wait they're already here. Seriously, anyone who immediately calls the person just bringing this topic up politically correct deserves a really hard kick to the dick.
“I dread heading off to work at E3 today,” she said. “The show is a constant assault on the female self esteem no matter which direction I look. I am in good shape, yet it is impossible not to compare. I feel uncomfortable. It is as if I walked into a strip club w/o intending to. These are the policies of @e3expo and @RichatESA. I feel uncomfortable in an industry I helped found.”
She helped make it this way by developing games like Playboy Mansion and Playboy Mansion: private party. Plus her argument is essentially: "There are women here who are more physically attractive then I am, and as such, I would like to not have to see them".
We can't have this stuff get in the way of watching someone get shotgunned to the face and pieces of their head hit the camera, now can we?
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