Indeed. I really enjoyed Until Dawn, it drew in a lot of people, and was a fun stream game (as the GBeast knows). It boggles the mind it wasn't included during the actual press conference, especially since it appears to be coming out this year. The only reason I can think of is if Hidden Agenda is smaller in scope, like a 2-3 hour $20 game. If this has the same production and scope as Until Dawn, that's just wrong.

That game does look cool. Until Dawn was the Cage game format but actually good. But they put Detroit on for that long during the conference instead...

I don't think there's any other way to say it -- this conference was bad. Biggest reveals were a friggen remake, a Monster Hunter game, and some DLC lol.

It was a MAJOR mistake revealing TLOU2 at PSX last year. IF they had just sat on that and brought the exact same trailer to close out the show today, the whole building would have erupted and we'd be talking about how they nailed it. I can't help but think that Sucker Punch has suffered some sort of set back. When they dropped TLOU at PSX, they must have thought that they would be able to headline E3 2017 with the Sucker Punch reveal, but then Sucker Punch fell behind schedule and they had to pull it. Quite frankly, the pre-show reveals -- Hidden Agenda, Undertale, Superhot VR, and Tropico were the best part of the whole show.

To be fair, pretty much all Bluepoint does is remasters, remakes and ports, so it's not like they were wasting resources that would have gone to new IP

I actually became a bit worried watching that Spiderman demo. It's arkham sticky combat with QTEs which I'm having a hard time getting excited about. I guess it really comes down if the swinging is fun.

Holy crap, that was underwhelming as hell. No release dates for this year, though I guess that sadly wasn't a huge surprise, even if there were talks of the Spider-man game making it for 2017...and that looked good enough, except for a whole lot of QTE. God of War looks great, but that's still ways off. Days Gone was...eh, not terrible or great. I guess that was pretty much it? Nothing of Dreams or any new IPs, like from Suckerpunch. No hardware talks either, oddly enough.

Guess we gotta wait for PSX to hear some more in-depths news, eh.

I'm pretty excited to replay Shadow of the Colossus. Also monster hunter could be huge.

Kind of a lackluster show, imo. The only things I wanted to play were God of War and Spider-Man, but even those were more cautious optimism than unbridled enthusiasm. Would've liked to see more from Death Stranding or TLoU 2. Oh well. I thought the Monster Hunter thing was kind of weird in that I thought the premise of the game was to team up with others and coordinate your attacks to take down huge monsters but there was only one guy. I wonder how it will affect the Switch version's sales, though.

Well, Sony certainly gave Microsoft the room they needed to make some moves later this year. That's for damn sure. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Sony is suddenly "doomed" or anything like that, but like Microsoft and Nintendo are gonna own the latter half of this year. To be fair, the PS4 is probably still gonna be the Destiny/CoD machine and that's still a big deal, but I just mean like as far as what people are going to be talking about, I just don't see the PS4 making headlines.

Honestly, Monster Hunter was literally the only thing that I cared about during this show, but like I could also buy that on XBOX or PC if I wanted so whatever. I checked out halfway through the show when it became clear there wasn't going to be a lot going on. Never thought I'd say this after their last few shows, but Sony easily had the weakest showing for me.

This press conference was a bit disappointing mainly because most of what they showed was already known. I wasn't concerned that most of it was 2018. There are still games coming out this year that they didn't show during the conference, some during the preshow.

The sad thing to me was that even with the lackluster showing, they showed me more real exclusive games that I'm interested in than Microsoft did. New hardware, touting 40-some games with over 20 "exclusives," and I'm still only looking forward to Cuphead and Ori 2.

I missed Shadow of the Colossus the first time around, so I'm looking forward to playing the remake/remaster/reboot. God of War will probably also be good, but none of that other stuff really sparked my interest. Sony didn't need a huge stunner of a show this year, but it was still pretty lackluster.

I wish ICO was given the same treatment. Man I would buy that in a heartbeat.

I still like what Sony did, I just was kind of hoping for a bigger surprise than 2 remakes. At least Sony is giving us PSVR owners reasons not to regret our purchase of VR. A prequel to Until Dawn is very nice. I was kind of hoping for a new Warhawk.

I don't understand this argument. If you're not interested, you don't have to buy it. Rereleases are really nice for folks who may have missed a game the first time (or second time) it was released.

Remastering a game requires a different skillset than developing a new game, so it's not like it takes resources away from developing new games. (if anything, re-releasing games is relatively easy money which will be used by the publisher to fund other games).

I'm more concerned with the copious amount of QTE's. Every 5 freaking seconds.

I'm critiquing their show. They had so little and one was a remake of a game they keep doing that with. It's boring.

It's a remake, not a remaster. They are spending money to make this game, and push to market it instead of something else. They could spend money to make new games instead. Just like with FF VII Remake. Square could be making new games and Sony could be spending money on new games instead of that, marketing wise or whatever the arrangement is. It's not "easy money" or cheap to entirely remake SotC actually, and in the end it's pretty boring.

This is the same defensive argument some people would say when you criticized this shit earlier in the generation and now that they are STILL remaking games with a game they already remastered it's funny to see it again. They spend money to do this, it isn't free. How wouldn't this be taking Sony resources to make? Because the developer just does remakes and remasters? Well pay someone else to make a whole new game.

If you want to post "well don't buy it then" after every criticism I make you can I guess.

Because we're 4 years in and developers still can't come up with anything more exciting than recycling old games. What's the point of upgrading if we're getting the exact same experiences? Might as well just keep our old consoles plugged in forever and save hundreds of dollars. It's lazy.

I am entirely tired of combat systems like that just about. I think after the new Mordor game I am done with it. It's boring to basically entirely remove things like spacing from the equation in your combat system. You're not wrong, but even with that they already made a Spider Man game that took that combat system years ago.

@babychoochoo: I think Sony kind of sucks when they are ahead lol. Their vibe right now reminds me of when they were ahead going into the PS3 generation.

Not bad Sony. My biggest complaint is that they were not risky enough with the games or their systems. But they showed games that I like and made me rethink of game they showed in the past.

I know I'll definatly be buying SoTC remake. There is nothing wrong with remaking or re releasing games. SoTC is better than 95.654% of games that are released anyway so I'd much rather play that.

Doesn't make it less diappointing but FF VII & SotC will be new games for the vast majority of people.

It was a perfectly fine conference, but it is a shame they couldn't get any of their headliners out this fall. God of War still looks really good, but I was sold after the first reveal. Days Gone still doesn't have an interesting hook, not convinced Detroit will actually be good, and Spiderman looked sadly familiar. And yeah I could do without the Shadow remake. Monster Hunter is cool, but it's coming again to other systems as well. Then again, so is a lot of stuff at the Microsoft conference coming to Playstation, so it's easy to overstate the significance of these conferences.

@brackstone: This thread is the first time I've heard of Hidden Agenda (I didn't know the preshow was happening until it was already over). Why the hell was that not on the mainstage instead of dreck like Bravo Team? Until Dawn was my favorite game of 2015 and I spent most of the conference bemoaning that Supermassive was being relegated to making generic VR games.

Overall, I was pretty disappointed in this conference...with the exceptions of Monster Hunter, VR stuff and the Shadow of the Colossus remake the show mostly felt like a "Greatest Hits of the Last Two Years" with a bunch of known quantities being trotted out again with little context. Giving Detroit five minutes of stage time for the third year in a row while Hidden Agenda gets sent to pre-show purgatory is utterly baffling.

As a result, it largely felt like a show where Sony was playing it almost boringly safe and resting on their laurels. To be sure, they've definitely earned those laurels this gen, but laurel-resting doesn't really make for an interesting or particularly encouraging press conference. It definitely had its moments (Spider-Man was definitely a bright spot, though I'll echo the general sentiment that the QTE focus seemed a bit off putting) but I was severely underwhelmed overall.

@atwa: God of War did have a year. It said early 2018.

Kind of disappointing, I know these presentations are about showing the games, but there was no showmanship here, it was just a bunch of trailers that could have just been posted to youtube, there needs to be more spectacle, kind of felt like there was no planning or preparation or care taken.

The God of War demo they showed last year was much better.

Spiderman looks uninspired

The Uncharted demo they showed at PSX looked more interesting

No Suckerpunch? They've been working on something for 3-4 years now and nothing to show, I would have thought something would be out by now and they aren't even ready to show, that's crazy.

Days Gone didn't look terrible this year so I guess that's a good thing.

A better bunch of games than Microsoft but they failed to sell it and that was the most disappointing thing.

I'm kind of blown away that neither Microsoft or Sony showed Agents of Mayhem or Vampyr seem like a pretty big games that are coming out this year.

I'm also surprised that Sony didn't show Hellblade, Ni no Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom, Gran Turismo Sport or even Knack II all console exclusives that are coming out this year.

I think Ubisoft had the best showing this year.

The highlights of the conference for me were monster hunter and shadow of the colossus.. something I never would have thought I would say. The zombie biker game looks great visually but even though it's too soon to tell I can't see the story in that appealing to me. Very underwhelming overall. If I were to buy one of the console half steps I'm leaning towards the Xbox one x.

I highly doubt Gran Turismo Sport comes out this year. That they gave a nebulous date of "Fall" when "Fall" is all of 80 days away sure sounds like "delayed to 2018" to me. Sigh.

@thepanzini: I don't want to shit on SotC because I love the game. SotC will be the same game at least who the hell knows what FF VII remake is now lol. That actually makes me a bit more interested in a way because I know it's going to have to be quite different. Even then I can think of so many other things I would rather have Square do.

Not their best show. On the other hand, that "hotel internet" really let the Giant Bomb crew down. I watched the Sony stream form another source and was able to piece it together. Still, would not say that was their best show - it was okay.

Out of the games shown this is what I have comments about:

• Crash Remakes 1-3 - Meh, I don't care.
• Uncharted: Lost Legacy. - It is nice looking, but I will only buy if ist is $40 or less.
• Horizon: Zero Dawn : The Frozen Wilds expansion. - Cool (get it...its a pun) but I need to get to the main game first...but still impressive.
• Days Gone - I might stand apart from the crew on this, but I WANT to play this game - it seems neat.
• Monster Hunter (for consoles) - Not my thing, and it never has been. Nice for fans, very exciting for fans indeed, but I am unmoved.
• Ni No Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom - Yeah, bring it on jRPGs are getting good again
• Life Is Strange : Before the Storm - Yes, please...thank god!
• Tropico 6 - There is a fan base for this and the game looks nice
• Gran Turismo Sport - This looks like really nice. It does hinge on how well newbies can play it.
• Shadow Of The Colossus (up-res) - I never played the game so an up-res version is fine with me.
• VR - The Inpatient - Oh, hells yes! Sorry folks this sort of horror game looks dope. I'm an Until Dawn fan, so this is my game.
• VR- Moss - I think ist looks cute and could be fun...I remain intrigued as to how it might work. I won't dismiss it, nor do I think others should.
• Call of Duty: World War II - It is about what I expected, a cut scene from the game -meh
• Detroit - Oh, hells yes! I enjoy David cage games, so this is in my wheelhouse.
• Marvel vs Capcom Infinite - Not my bag, I'm not into it but I can see the appeal. They really should have shown gameplay.
• Destiny 2 - I just don't care what that company puts out - they burned a bridge with me.
• Spider-Man - Looks fine to me, maybe I'm wrong. Not my sort of game, but I can see the appeal for people into Spider-man games.
• God of War - It looks 50% less "The Last of Us" this year...which is bad.

Yeah, I'll say it! The more they try to drag new God of War over to the old style in tone, the less I will like it. This was not a time to listening to the old fans who want brainless brawling. The less "narrative based" they make this game, and the more "brawler" they make it, the less excited people will be with it.

The old God of War games were selling LESS and LESS each year...it was time for a hard break. If they inch this game towards the old "feel" they will lose sales....there was a reason they needed to change. The ascendant (on the rise) style of game is The Last of Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn, and Uncharted: Lost Legacy; so if they backslide on this title making a throw back game they are making a HUGE mistake.

Monster Hunter might actually be the thing I'm most excited for from this year's E3. Wanted to get into them for a long time but everything about that type of game being on a handheld was just too much of a mismatch for me to enjoy.

The heck is SuckerPunch?

@monkeyking1969: That COD trailer was MP from their new War Mode.

@banefirelord Sony's strategy with the preshow made little sense to me.

What are you even talking about? We're getting new games. We're always getting new games. Are you just turning a blind eye to everything just to be critical about one remake? Days Gone, Detroit, Horizon...all 3 new Sony IPs. Do you think the collective "developers" you talk about have unlimited resources or something?

Let them remake a game. Sheesh. We barely have any actual video game remakes anyway. We got Resident Evil and Twin Snakes on gamecube...I seriously can't think of another one. What is so bad about remaking a game every now and then? Games development for new IPs and new sequels is a tough and costly process. Give them a break for christ's sake.

The Last Guardian just came out a few months ago, that's Ueda's SOTC spiritual successor. People asked for that game for years and guess what, it sold poorly. Now these same people are crying over a SOTC remake after they JUST released a new game. Square Enix released FFXV after a long hard decade in development. Now they got Kingdom Hearts 3 on the way and also FFVII remake. Oh but sure, Square isn't working to give us new stuff...nope. Not at all. Give me a break.

I've had it with the cynicism from people screaming "MAKE NEW GAMES" the moment they see one remake or remaster. There are ALWAYS new games coming out, much more than remakes or remasters. It seriously reminds me of people who are like "there's no good music anymore." Open your eyes and stop being so cynical for no reason. It's not laziness. There is nothing lazy about AAA games development. Only people who have no idea how games development works are the ones who say that. It's getting ridiculous.

@frostyryan: You're jumping the gun in your rush to defend there, chief.

Where in my post did I ever say that no one's making any new games? I know we're getting new games, the point of my post is that they're still trying to get away with re-selling old ones. And the reason why you see people saying "New games!" is because these consoles in particular have been chock full of remasters and ports. For the first 2 years or so, that was pretty much all they had. "Last of Us Remastered! Buy the same game you bought a year ago, only shinier!"

• Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition
• Tomb Raider Definitive Edition
• Last of Us Remastered
• God of War 3 Remastered
• Gears of War Definitive Edition
• Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition
• DMC Definitive Edition
• Skyrim Remastered
• Call of Duty 4 Remastered
• Journey
• Uncharted Collection
• Assassin's Creed Ezio Collection
• Dishonored Definitive Edition
• Batman: Return to Arkham

And probably a bunch of others I missed. And I'd get if these were all old classics that warranted the upscale like FF7, but every single one of these are last generation games. That last generation that went on for almost a decade. And no price reduction! Slap that sucker onto shelves and make it full price! They'll buy it anyway!

So excuse me for being a bit incensed ( I did say it was the best thing at their conference after all, which is sad) when I see them slap out yet another re-do way past the period where it would be something just to fill out their library. And it'll probably be full price. For a game they've already released twice. "Here boy, here boy! See the shiny game? See that thing you recognize? $60 please!!" And you're gonna parade it around at E3 on top of that??

So no, this isn't undue cynicism. Return to Arkham was last year. 4 years in, this shouldn't still be a common practice.

And who exactly are you to go around trying to shut down criticism in the first place? Like game developers all you want, but don't try to convince people they do no wrong.

There is obviously a pretty large portion of people who do want these remasters though. They wouldn't release them if they didn't sell, so sure maybe it's not for you but a lot of people do want them and will buy them. Or are these people just idiots for lapping it up?

Two days later - still underwhelmed that it wasn't more splashy.

But, the weird thing is if you just look at the whole show and what we are getting a peek at, it all pretty amazing. Look at all the games coming out not matter what system, there are a ton of solid-looking games coming over the next year. Switch, PC, PS4, and Xbox games that all seem to add up to a healthy stable looking industry.

YES, stable does come across as boring. YES, stable and nobody making a 'splashy show' and instead playing it safe about comments is not juicy. Yet, isn't it nice the console makers are playing nice? It was all a bit underwhelming when looked at separately, but the sum is more that it parts at this e3. Sony didn't push hard or push VR...or another handheld down our throats. Microsoft undersold ist Scorpio and priced its high. A flood of 3rd parties are not jumping on Switches mildly elevated sales. But, it could be worse, right?

This has already been a great year for games from where I sit, so why exactly are we whining about games coming in 2018 like we are getting cheated. The first six month of 2017 have been a cornucopia of games; so -maybe- it is okay...maybe, we should chill.

@nicksmi56: @frodobaggins: I used to be a lot more OK with these re-releases before Microsoft leaned into backwards compatibility and allowed me to play the original games for free if I'd already bought them once.

Nevertheless there are a lot of people who missed some good games the first time around. That happened to me with Shadow of the Colossus, and I'm excited to play it for the first time on my PS4.

And with other games, like Halo, I've been very happy to pay a bit to get those games looking and playing great with multiplayer included on current consoles.

The moment they started to mention PSX I knew they'd be holding back. E3 is no longer the main showcase for Sony.
Having said all that, God of War looked way to good to be a real game, and I think that March 2018 date is more than likely.

@frodobaggins: And I'm glad it works for those people, but it just really seems like a sign of regression and this gen not living up to its namesake or promises 4 years in.

It's when I see that this remake is one of the highlights of the conference for quite a lot of people and I see comments like "Shadow of the Colossus is better than pretty much everything released nowadays so I'll gladly pay for it." And I think to myself "Wow. 4 years into 'next-gen' and we're still more excited for a PS2 game's second re-release than most of these new experiences. Wasn't this supposed to be a leap forward?"

It doesn't help when I see just how many of these have been pumped out this gen. I don't think there's ever been a gen where so many of the releases are comprised of old games. At a certain point it feels like taking advantage. "We can't live up to these so here, have them again. $60 please." And so many of them are only a couple of years old and don't even bother to improve the actual game! You wanna remaster a Gamecube game with added functionality while taking out some of the things that annoyed people about the original release and put it on Wii U? Be my guest. Heck, I'm over the moon about Samus Returns, because that game hasn't been seen since the original Game Boy and there's a bunch of improvements going into it, including a new combat system and being able to pin items on the map so you don't miss any. THAT'S the kind of re-release I wanna see. Not just "Here. It's prettier. $60. Now."

Also, in the future, @ me if you wanna talk to me. I'm not exactly lurking around threads for conferences I didn't like.

@isomeri: I'm glad you get to experience such an awesome game, but I just have to ask: Do you happen to have a PS3 by any chance? Colossus already got re-released there in HD and you can get the PSN code on Amazon for $10 right now. That's $50 you're saving for what is extremely likely to be the exact same game. Heck, the pack with ICO, its predecessor that's not nearly as good but still enjoyable, included goes for around $20.

Of course, if you feel the need to pay for the newest version, that's fine as well. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have :)

@nicksmi56: I often forget to use the reply button I'm not one for fourms or social media or anything like that so I may make the mistake again. Anyhow I don't buy your argument. I don't buy that these remakes are bad for the industry or that this gen hasn't lived upto it's promise or anything at all along those lines. Heck were 6 months into 2017 and many people believe this is one of the greatest years in video game history lol, not sure what else to say. We could go back and forth on this, you think one way I the other, that's perfectly fine. One thing I do think however is that this will not stop happening and indeed will happen more as we progress.

@frodobaggins: It probably will, and I can't say I'm happy about that, but I at the very least hope that developers start putting more care into them and actually try to improve the base game instead of slapping a new coat of paint on them and charging full price. We can at the very least demand that much. If you're gonna put it out there, make it better than what it was the first time.

@nicksmi56: agree 100%

@nicksmi56: I was thinking about picking up the first remaster for PS3 at some point, mainly to re-play Ico, but I think it was just another busy time for me and I never got around to it. At this point, I think I'd rather just pay the extra money and play an even better looking version of the game, than dig out my PS3 and find a used copy. Heck, maybe I'll pick up the PS4 version used after a few months or something.

@isomeri: That's fine, man. Hope you like it :) it really is an awesome game.

Personally some of the underwhelming nature of giving modern graphics to Shadow is that it has such a distinct semi-minimalist aesthetic to begin with that giving it PS4 quality models doesn't seem like it would change the experience much even compared to say re-skinning the Crash trilogy.

Sony could have put on a much better show but with MS having new hardware and it being the first E3 for Switch its quite understandable Sony having a low key show. At this point PSX is probably a far more important show having a news cycle all to themselves in front of a captive audience.

@thepanzini: That's a fair point. Ducking out of the way of the Xbox One X announcement and the carried interest behind the Switch could be a legitimate reason to hold a pretty thin press conference.

Then again, I really think that Sony are sort of hampering themselves by holding two major shows each year. It's really hard to provide fresh stuff for both conferences. Nintendo and Microsoft on the other hand have healthy lineups at E3 and then sprinkle a few bits of extra news out to the public throughout the year.

@isomeri: Certainly Nintendo has great stuff coming however its for its own audience it won't effect Sony. MS had a much better conference but on paper their line up isn't any better.

Not counting the smaller titles which Sony always has alot more of MS have Forza 7 & Crackdown 3 the latter releases Nov 7 after the Oct crush this is a bad window I think CD3 might get lost, against GT7 & Knack 2 I don't see either first party line up being better than the other here though GT7 will do great numbers because racing games sell better in Europe and its been so long.

Early 18 MS have SoD2 & SoT both of these won't be sales hits and having doubts either will hit Spring but its up against GoW which will do fantastic.

One problem for MS is most third parties won't spend a great deal of time on Pro/1X support and will likely use a catch all solution dynamic 4K checkerboarding because a bespoke solution for each console would be costly and more time consuming.

None of MS first party output is graphically impressive apart from Forza but racing isn't that popular and GT7 is close to native 4K anyway, Sony's stuff looks more visually impressive its a harder sell on 1X both in numbers and the idea CD3 destruction better look good.