@Kifftopher: That isn't enough for me. I don't like the idea of having to basically check out my dudes outfit, just to figure out that I'm about to die. But I did like the Lucifel thing that really made me laugh.

But in all I did find that demo to be one hell of a demo. Even though I never ended up figuring out just what the hell was up with that angel dude you fight in the beginning.

@Jumbs said:

@TehFlan said:

I'm not sure why atheists feel the need to talk about how much they hate religion every time it comes up ever. I sense quite a bit of bitterness. It's not even like this is a Christian game. Chill out, duders.

Bitterness? More like they're upset people still give a shit about these fables.

So...bitterness, then?

@jetsetwillie said:

don't games encourage critical thinking. something which goes completely against faith/religion

How is this in any way relevant to El Shaddai? This game is no more pro-religion than God of War was. It's just using the mythology of the Bible as a cool setting for its game. Nothing more, nothing less.

I swear, some of you can get butthurt over the most trivial things.

@Movius said:

A few comments seem to imply that this game is based on currently practiced Christianity/Judaism. Only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church considers the book of Enoch canon (they consider it the first human writing. It is actually quite late circa 100BC. ) All major christian churches in the anglosphere as well as jews do not consider Enoch to be one of their holy books. (Though it is cited in the new testament.)

This is like saying Neon Genesis Evangelion is an important piece of Christian theology.

THIS PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU MAKE A IGNORANT COMMENT!

actually no I take that back, you know why religion and gaming cant mix its cuse of this thread.

daijoubu ka

@Branthog said:

Using various mythologies as the background or world to create a story out of isn't very original, but it's something I can tolerate if it is done right. Religion, on the other hand, is just another gimmick. This seems to straddle religion and mythology, but still contain nothing that I find compelling or interesting. The background on this sounds a lot like a Shyamalan "with a twist" *yawn* story. Or like a Dan Brown attempt -- ridiculous and uninteresting, yet somehow that found an audience of people who thought they were in the middle of something clever and awe-inspiring.

I want to play a game about religion about as much as I want to play a game about abortion, feminism, immigration, or any of several "I just took Philosophy 101" concepts. Gamers seem to succumb to this sort of trickery, so easily, but it strikes me as no different than GamaSutra needing more hits, so writing yet another "sexism/women in gaming" article or a television show promoting that an important character might die this next episode, or a show putting a puppy or a child in harm's way because they aren't clever enough to find another way to achieve emotional impact.

To each their own, but this is a genre that does not appeal to me. Much in the same way that demons and ghosts don't appeal to me. It's like watching Paranormal Activity, which is a lot like staring at your fireplace and waiting for Santa to climb out with a sack full of toys. I think we all want to see more games with a greater level of maturity, complexity, and story depth, but I don't think we want the cheap low-hanging-fruit attempts at it.

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

I agree with you on most of this ( though I prefer calling "feminists" female chauvinists, you know, call a shovel a shovel), except for the last bit, Norse mythology has stuff in common with Abrahamic mythology (concepts like creationism, life after death and Armageddon).

You know, good stuff that made you give your life or a percent of you productivity to your local holy man... just because Catholics were better at threatening/murdering/converting nonbelievers than Scandinavian pagans doesn't mean that their superstitious bronze age myths deserve to be treated any different (In the sense that no religion is true, they're all myths and I feel that not calling calling a shovel a shovel here legitimizes Abrahamic mythology and somehow makes Greek or Norse mythology seem like they were abandoned because they were not true, when the only difference between them is that Catholics were the ones swinging the biggest hammer. Being the best at organizing mass murder does not make your superstition any more real than superstition in other flavors)

I dunno, even differentiating between them is weird to me, it's like saying you know that Spider-man doesn't exist, but you have a close and personal relationship with Batman.

@Branthog said:

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

Aside from one segment being less practiced (or even dead) and the other being widely practiced, how does either or make a justifiable difference in regards to whether they are a "mythology" or "religion"? They still fit within the definitions of those words. No one said anything about a specific number of practicing people in order to define itself as religion. We just happen to call 'dead' religions mythology because it's been accepted as old superstition and folk lore. The fact that people in the same breath pledge loyalty to another deity of just as unlikely existence is a pretty funny irony to me.

And while I have no knowledge of modern greek religious beliefs, I know there are plenty of people practicing a norse belief system. Though, probably without the ritualistic killing of animals as that tends to be frowned upon.

@pepsimaxofborg said:

@mattisonfire said:

great article Patrick

but man never be so embarrassed to be a member, people have a right to believe in what they want to believe, so just because your atheists and have just as little real evidence for all that there is doesn't mean you can be assholes

You have consider that atheists are not the ones making extraordinary claims, that's people of faith and believers, hence atheists do not have to prove anything - believers however do, and can't. But such is the way of personal beliefs.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It always annoyed me when I was younger (and once in a while now) of how people would try to make me feel foolish or ignorant for not believing.

I don't force my disbelief on you, don't force yours on me.

daijoubu janai

@Animasta said:

@Branthog said:

Using various mythologies as the background or world to create a story out of isn't very original, but it's something I can tolerate if it is done right. Religion, on the other hand, is just another gimmick. This seems to straddle religion and mythology, but still contain nothing that I find compelling or interesting. The background on this sounds a lot like a Shyamalan "with a twist" *yawn* story. Or like a Dan Brown attempt -- ridiculous and uninteresting, yet somehow that found an audience of people who thought they were in the middle of something clever and awe-inspiring.

I want to play a game about religion about as much as I want to play a game about abortion, feminism, immigration, or any of several "I just took Philosophy 101" concepts. Gamers seem to succumb to this sort of trickery, so easily, but it strikes me as no different than GamaSutra needing more hits, so writing yet another "sexism/women in gaming" article or a television show promoting that an important character might die this next episode, or a show putting a puppy or a child in harm's way because they aren't clever enough to find another way to achieve emotional impact.

To each their own, but this is a genre that does not appeal to me. Much in the same way that demons and ghosts don't appeal to me. It's like watching Paranormal Activity, which is a lot like staring at your fireplace and waiting for Santa to climb out with a sack full of toys. I think we all want to see more games with a greater level of maturity, complexity, and story depth, but I don't think we want the cheap low-hanging-fruit attempts at it.

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

me not knowing the bible had no impact on me enjoying the game; sure I looked at the wiki article on the book of enoch but i felt like it really had nothing to do with real life stuff. Isn't Assassins creed steeped in religion? Persona 4, even, was pretty well steeped in Shinto, and there's still a large amount of people who believe that. Digital Devil Saga is so steeped in Hinduism... it fucking included Ardhanarishvara for christ sake (look it up). They aren't actively promoting Christianity with this game. The book of enoch isn't taught in many sunday school classes after all! Just because Christianity is a big thing that I don't agree with doesn't mean that the bible can't spawn a good game or two.

Yup. The Book Of Enoch isn't Christian either, it's Jewish. Enoch was the great grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch isn't canon for most Christians (only Ethopian Othordox) or Jews (Beta Israel teaches it too) and so this game could hardly be reverential to Christianity or religion per se, it's more of a Creative Work which uses Religious Stories to tell its own story. Think of it like a gaming take on something like The Mahabharata.

As always the forum rules apply...

@Branthog said:

Using various mythologies as the background or world to create a story out of isn't very original, but it's something I can tolerate if it is done right. Religion, on the other hand, is just another gimmick. This seems to straddle religion and mythology, but still contain nothing that I find compelling or interesting. The background on this sounds a lot like a Shyamalan "with a twist" *yawn* story. Or like a Dan Brown attempt -- ridiculous and uninteresting, yet somehow that found an audience of people who thought they were in the middle of something clever and awe-inspiring.

I want to play a game about religion about as much as I want to play a game about abortion, feminism, immigration, or any of several "I just took Philosophy 101" concepts. Gamers seem to succumb to this sort of trickery, so easily, but it strikes me as no different than GamaSutra needing more hits, so writing yet another "sexism/women in gaming" article or a television show promoting that an important character might die this next episode, or a show putting a puppy or a child in harm's way because they aren't clever enough to find another way to achieve emotional impact.

To each their own, but this is a genre that does not appeal to me. Much in the same way that demons and ghosts don't appeal to me. It's like watching Paranormal Activity, which is a lot like staring at your fireplace and waiting for Santa to climb out with a sack full of toys. I think we all want to see more games with a greater level of maturity, complexity, and story depth, but I don't think we want the cheap low-hanging-fruit attempts at it.

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

I agree with you on most of this ( though I prefer calling "feminists" female chauvinists, you know, call a shovel a shovel), except for the last bit, Norse mythology has stuff in common with Abrahamic mythology (concepts like creationism, life after death and Armageddon).

You know, good stuff that made you give your life or a percent of you productivity to your local holy man... just because Catholics were better at threatening/murdering/converting nonbelievers than Scandinavian pagans doesn't mean that their superstitious bronze age myths deserve to be treated any different (In the sense that no religion is true, they're all myths and I feel that not calling calling a shovel a shovel here legitimizes Abrahamic mythology and somehow makes Greek or Norse mythology seem like they were abandoned because they were not true, when the only difference between them is that Catholics were the ones swinging the biggest hammer. Being the best at organizing mass murder does not make your superstition any more real than superstition in other flavors)

I dunno, even differentiating between them is weird to me, it's like saying you know that Spider-man doesn't exist, but you have a close and personal relationship with Batman.

@Little_Socrates: interesting points, and be mindful of arguing with militant atheists. They are so full of hatred for anything religious. just look at r/Atheism for interesting examples :)

@TehFlan: AHH, SO true :) I guess they like either attention or raining on Parades

@Branthog said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Animasta said:

@Branthog said:

Using various mythologies as the background or world to create a story out of isn't very original, but it's something I can tolerate if it is done right. Religion, on the other hand, is just another gimmick. This seems to straddle religion and mythology, but still contain nothing that I find compelling or interesting. The background on this sounds a lot like a Shyamalan "with a twist" *yawn* story. Or like a Dan Brown attempt -- ridiculous and uninteresting, yet somehow that found an audience of people who thought they were in the middle of something clever and awe-inspiring.

I want to play a game about religion about as much as I want to play a game about abortion, feminism, immigration, or any of several "I just took Philosophy 101" concepts. Gamers seem to succumb to this sort of trickery, so easily, but it strikes me as no different than GamaSutra needing more hits, so writing yet another "sexism/women in gaming" article or a television show promoting that an important character might die this next episode, or a show putting a puppy or a child in harm's way because they aren't clever enough to find another way to achieve emotional impact.

To each their own, but this is a genre that does not appeal to me. Much in the same way that demons and ghosts don't appeal to me. It's like watching Paranormal Activity, which is a lot like staring at your fireplace and waiting for Santa to climb out with a sack full of toys. I think we all want to see more games with a greater level of maturity, complexity, and story depth, but I don't think we want the cheap low-hanging-fruit attempts at it.

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

me not knowing the bible had no impact on me enjoying the game; sure I looked at the wiki article on the book of enoch but i felt like it really had nothing to do with real life stuff. Isn't Assassins creed steeped in religion? Persona 4, even, was pretty well steeped in Shinto, and there's still a large amount of people who believe that. Digital Devil Saga is so steeped in Hinduism... it fucking included Ardhanarishvara for christ sake (look it up). They aren't actively promoting Christianity with this game. The book of enoch isn't taught in many sunday school classes after all! Just because Christianity is a big thing that I don't agree with doesn't mean that the bible can't spawn a good game or two.

Yup. The Book Of Enoch isn't Christian either, it's Jewish. Enoch was the great grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch isn't canon for most Christians (only Ethopian Othordox) or Jews (Beta Israel teaches it too) and so this game could hardly be reverential to Christianity or religion per se, it's more of a Creative Work which uses Religious Stories to tell its own story. Think of it like a gaming take on something like The Mahabharata.

It's not a matter necessarily of "promoting" religion with a game. It's a simple matter of, as I said, finding it completely fucking uninteresting. Actually, I have at least two different points of contention on this game and the whole "religion in games" thing. The first is that I'm just not entertained by it. Some people get a weird kick out of exploring all the religions out there and some people like to crochet. I don't like to do either of those things. The second is this idea that because it contains religion, it is somehow to be highly regarded. Hence, the example I gave comparing it to articles that wannabe internet journalists (specifically when it comes to gaming) write, where they say something like "women in gaming am I right?" and suddenly they are praised for being refined erudites. That such simple and uninteresting things are still being heralded as hallmarks of either great games journalism or great game development and writing speaks directly to how young this medium still is and how little it has evolved and how much farther it has to go before it catches up to other forms of storytelling. To a point where simple gimmicks don't garner such attention and aren't worth the ink.

in no way is el shaddai "highly regarded" in any sense of the word, unless you mean about the artstyle which, well, art is art; nothing inherently christian about it.

@ArbitraryWater: how very true, I DO NOT want to see Gaintbomb.com become a r/Atheism circlejerk

@Meowshi: yeah, he seems to be VERY Bitter

@Branthog said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Animasta said:

@Branthog said:

Using various mythologies as the background or world to create a story out of isn't very original, but it's something I can tolerate if it is done right. Religion, on the other hand, is just another gimmick. This seems to straddle religion and mythology, but still contain nothing that I find compelling or interesting. The background on this sounds a lot like a Shyamalan "with a twist" *yawn* story. Or like a Dan Brown attempt -- ridiculous and uninteresting, yet somehow that found an audience of people who thought they were in the middle of something clever and awe-inspiring.

I want to play a game about religion about as much as I want to play a game about abortion, feminism, immigration, or any of several "I just took Philosophy 101" concepts. Gamers seem to succumb to this sort of trickery, so easily, but it strikes me as no different than GamaSutra needing more hits, so writing yet another "sexism/women in gaming" article or a television show promoting that an important character might die this next episode, or a show putting a puppy or a child in harm's way because they aren't clever enough to find another way to achieve emotional impact.

To each their own, but this is a genre that does not appeal to me. Much in the same way that demons and ghosts don't appeal to me. It's like watching Paranormal Activity, which is a lot like staring at your fireplace and waiting for Santa to climb out with a sack full of toys. I think we all want to see more games with a greater level of maturity, complexity, and story depth, but I don't think we want the cheap low-hanging-fruit attempts at it.

And yes, I discern between the two things: religion and mythology. A game set in the world of Norse or Greek gods is mythology. A game steeped in a currently practiced and preached dogma is religion. (Unless there is a huge contingent of people out there that still believe in Norse or Greek gods, in which case I guess that's still "religion", too . . . but I am under the impression those are dead religions).

me not knowing the bible had no impact on me enjoying the game; sure I looked at the wiki article on the book of enoch but i felt like it really had nothing to do with real life stuff. Isn't Assassins creed steeped in religion? Persona 4, even, was pretty well steeped in Shinto, and there's still a large amount of people who believe that. Digital Devil Saga is so steeped in Hinduism... it fucking included Ardhanarishvara for christ sake (look it up). They aren't actively promoting Christianity with this game. The book of enoch isn't taught in many sunday school classes after all! Just because Christianity is a big thing that I don't agree with doesn't mean that the bible can't spawn a good game or two.

Yup. The Book Of Enoch isn't Christian either, it's Jewish. Enoch was the great grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch isn't canon for most Christians (only Ethopian Othordox) or Jews (Beta Israel teaches it too) and so this game could hardly be reverential to Christianity or religion per se, it's more of a Creative Work which uses Religious Stories to tell its own story. Think of it like a gaming take on something like The Mahabharata.

It's not a matter necessarily of "promoting" religion with a game. It's a simple matter of, as I said, finding it completely fucking uninteresting. Actually, I have at least two different points of contention on this game and the whole "religion in games" thing. The first is that I'm just not entertained by it. Some people get a weird kick out of exploring all the religions out there and some people like to crochet. I don't like to do either of those things. The second is this idea that because it contains religion, it is somehow to be highly regarded. Hence, the example I gave comparing it to articles that wannabe internet journalists (specifically when it comes to gaming) write, where they say something like "women in gaming am I right?" and suddenly they are praised for being refined erudites. That such simple and uninteresting things are still being heralded as hallmarks of either great games journalism or great game development and writing speaks directly to how young this medium still is and how little it has evolved and how much farther it has to go before it catches up to other forms of storytelling. To a point where simple gimmicks don't garner such attention and aren't worth the ink.

It's being regarded, not highly so, which is the point of the article. The article isn't posing as an intellectual treatise, it's merely talking about the existence of the subject matter in gaming. Your take is rather irrational, pretty unfounded and also selfish. What you like or don't like bears no relation to the maturity of the gaming press. For the record, I'm an Atheist, but also educated in the contexts of many cultures (and religions) and I think your whole take is pretty small minded. Why you feel the need to attack someone doing their job because the subject (quite clearly) offends you speaks volumes about you rather than the subject matter or the person reporting it.

@Little_Socrates said:

@dvorak: Thing is, to know literature, you really do need to know your Bible, whether you're Christian or not. It's, you know, the first widely-published book. It shapes most of our narrative today. I'm not saying I know mine, but I acknowledge the importance of knowing the Bible to really get most literary allusions.

I think that Quick Look also largely misrepresents El Shaddai. There's a goddamned Tron level in that game. You ride a light cycle for an almost absurd amount of time. My jaw literally was dropped throughout the entire sequence.

Also, this loading screen has that one track that sounds EXACTLY like the jam at the end of Another Brick In The Wall (Part I).

I had zero idea this game was like this. Wow.

My bro loved it, the design, the one, the visuals, the gameplay...

But I didn't bother to try it.. I dunno... didn't like the characters/idea... My favorite games will always be the ones I've enjoyed the most playing the main character/what he looks like/what he does. Megaman (a robot fighting other robots), Sonic (a cartoon hedgehog fighting robots, an evil scientist and freeing other smaller animals), Bionic Commando (a badass dude with a grappling hook fighting nazis)...

An angel in a biblical epic story fighting God, angels and the devil? RrrrrZzzzzZz *snores*

The title of this article was much better than the content. Compared to Patrick's other feature articles this was just a 'normal' interview type article. Hopefully Patrick can explore this topic further in the future.

This game has religion in it?
 
I just didn't like what I saw of the visuals or the gameplay.

looks cool

I'm sorry Patrick but the western world is clearly willing to touch religious subjects as well and even more blatantly than anyone else. Assasin's Creed is all about a multi religion plot, and how the christian templars want to control everything in the hopes to prevent the apocalypse. And may I mention that Halo which is the definition of "another military shooter" is basically a sci-fi retelling of Noha's ark?

Man, Klepek really knows what he's doing! Love these stories!

“Members of UTV Ignition’s London office first came up with the idea to create an action game based on the Book of Enoch, but they wanted the game to be developed in Japan.”

According to the game's official site, it lists the Original Concept Creator as Jim Philpot. I wonder if this is the "Members of..." he is referring to? Jim also seems to be credited on a bunch of other titles going back to 2002...

@bhhawks78 said:

@l4wd0g said:

@bhhawks78: don't move to SW Asia, of E Asia, N Africa, or pats of Europe.

Or America..o wait FUCK

No, not yet. I was actually talking about Sharia Law. Crazy huh? In the US we talk about religion in politics, but the truth is, we don't really. Churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. that preach on/comment on politics lose their tax free status . Saying the 'religious right' is just a tactic to discredit an argument without addressing the issues. It's subtle fear mongering.

The demo was pretty interesting,I'd like to try it out.

Thanks for the article, Patrick. The game is on my to play list, which is only growing larger as the year comes to close.

@Masha2932 said:

The title of this article was much better than the content. Compared to Patrick's other feature articles this was just a 'normal' interview type article. Hopefully Patrick can explore this topic further in the future.

I agree. When I saw the title it was clearly Patricks. I still enjoyed the peace though, I was surprised that he could speak perfect English apparently too.

Great article. I can't help but think how much strife we'd get over if we took a similar approach to such topics. Both for believers and not.