There was some talk about how the game will be mod supported before release, but I haven't seen a single thing since launch. Not a mention in the quick look or in the review, is this something that will be coming later? I don't have the game yet, is there any hint of the mod support in the menus or something, will it be patched in later or was this feature just cancelled altogether?

@quipido: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-fallout-4-pc-mods-will-work-on-xbox-one-and-ps/1100-6432134/

What's different with Fallout 4, however, is that the game's mods--at least some of them--will be playable on the Xbox One andPlayStation 4 versions of the game. The Fallout 4 Creation Kit--the tool suite that PC players can use to make mods--will launch in early 2016 for PC, with supported mods coming to Xbox One sometime later. The functionality is expected to launch on PS4 further into the future.

What sort of mods do you see even coming to consoles? With the consoles fairly running this game, adding any sort of ancillary modifications to this game seems hard to do without cutting the stitches that are already barely holding this thing together.

This topic really fascinates me because I am excited to see what is even done with the whole thing. To my knowledge something to this effect has never been done before (please correct me if I am wrong). The mod scene for consoles will have to be an extremely watered down version of anything on PC.

I think anyone with half a brain would have to expect any mods available on a console to be very limited, but you could still do some worthwhile stuff in that space, even if it's nothing more than fixing/improving the numerous issues that plague Bethesda games.

For example, I might have enjoyed Skyrim significantly more on consoles if I had merely been able to install a simple mod to overhaul the magic system. Even something as basic as improve the scaling on Destruction magic would have made the game better.

A simple encumbrance mod would be fantastic

For giggles, I used to run mods on Morrowind on the (itself modded, of course) OG Xbox, including texture improvements. It was surprising what it could handle...

@ericjasonwade:

Knowing how mods are made I'd take a stab and say:

• New Armors
• New weapons
• New Textures
• New structures
• New quests (that work within the existing framework of F4's quests)
• Balance/Tweaks (weapon damages, spawn rates, encumbrance)
• Some UI adjustments (MAYBE)
• Bug Fixes

Essentially all the stuff that is currently on the Nexus for Fallout 4.

What you won't see are:

• ENB's or other types of injectors
• Anything that relies on external scripts or mods based around script extenders
• Major gameplay overhauls (usually because these rely on script extenders)
• HUGE texture mods (shit like 8k res textures)
• Porn mods, copyrighted material mods (anything that would get filtered upon moderation)
• ANY mods that require parent mods that have external tools.

The "problems" Fallout 4 is having are greatly exaggerated. the strings that are "barely" holding Fallout 4 together are the same strings that have held the games together for decades. And more than that, they are the same strings on PC and Console. Your mileage may vary, but mods on Fallout 4 won't perform any differently than on other platforms.

(MOST mods break games, by the way.)

I just want to crank all my stats up and get all the perks for a second run.

You can do that currently with the SPECIAL exploit. Won't give you all the perks but it will let you access them all at least.

Yea I understand everyone is having separate experiences when it comes to these technical problems but my frame rate is definitely not great and I feel that adding anymore to this game can make it crack. Im also aware that mods do break games. This game is also probably optimized to the best of it's ability with the time they were given and adding more just might break it whereas PCs usually have plenty of extra breathing room (depending on your setup) to handle mods. I am just being skeptical of the whole thing but I am very hopeful it will work out.

Mods on console (and Steam Workshop too, I assume) have the potential to be a real shitshow without a few essential tools: a mod manager, a mod sorter, and a bashed patcher.

In a nutshell, mods on Bethesda games work like this:

• The game loads the game and mod files in order. The order is determined by the date on the files (older files are loaded first).
• The order they're loaded determines which files take precedence. If two mods change the same files, the mod that was loaded last will overwrite the files that were changed by a mod loaded before it.
• The function or complexity of the mod can also determine where it should be in the load order. Simpler mods like UI changes and texture replacers usually load first. More complex mods like those with a lot of complex scripting usually load later in the load order.

A mod manager like the Nexus Mod Manager is used to download mods, and to fine tune the load order. A mod sorter like BOSS sorts your mod load order using the best practices as determined by the community, as well as flags mods that should be merged into a bashed patch. A bashed patcher like Wrye Bash looks inside all the mods that have been flagged safe to merge, and combines them into one patch. This patch allows multiple mods to work together that otherwise would overwrite parts of each other and break.

Without these tools I fear modding on consoles is going nowhere fast. At the very least the experience will not be anything even close to what you can do on PC.

If you're interested, here's the last mod list I made for Skyrim. It would've been impossible to use this many mods at once - and have them all work - without these tools.

@bane: From what I read the official tools will be the only way, so the extent will likely be limited, and probably have filesize restrictions (one of the reasons Nexus hasnt been completely replaced by Steam Workshop)

I heard the crew on the bombcast about using this as well and it kind of blows my mind. This is straight up cheating, right? It's a basic rule of the game that you can't carry everything you come across, you have to make choices on what you want to bring along. It feels to me the next step is saying 'Oh in Bloodborne I die way too much, let's fix that with a mod that makes me way less vulnerable'.

If I had unlimited storage space in my Fallout inventory, then the next thing I would want is that I automatically pick up everything I look at. Or maybe a 'pick up everything in this room'-button. Crazy stuff.

It surprises me that anyone wants to add even more to the endless scrolling you have to do in that damn inventory. I'm sort of thankful for limited space.

The mod I really want the most is a better UI for the pip boy. One that sorts things by type and not alphabetically. It would be nice to have all types of items grouped, left legs, shotguns, etc. Instead of me having to hunt and peck through my long lists.

Bethesda will clearly vet the mods hard.

And I doubt we will see changed UI or tweaks like that, because that would be Bethesda admitting that users made something better than they did.

I would mostly expect some new weapons and armors, nothing major. And obviously since consoles are limited by hardware, like PC isn't, there won't be anything that hits performance.

I don't see why they wouldn't allow mods like that. Those are noninvasive modes. They wouldn't run a big risk of breaking a whole lot. And they would be optional for people to use. Plus if a lot of people end up using it, it gives them feedback data on what they need to look at for the next game. Really, I see that as their biggest benefit from letting mods on console. To see what those players want changed, without actually having to communicate with those players. They will have hard numbers on how many times this mod was downloaded, maybe even how long it was used, etc. They can then look at that data and say, okay this is an area we need to look at for the next one because this large portion of the player base used this mode to change this about the game.

Also, this will not be a free thing, right? You'll probably have to pay for some 'mod pass' or even a microtransaction store thing for unlocking mods.

Nothing is for free on consoles..

Ya I see some being free, while most being paid.

Your argument sounds like mods are something completely new. Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Skryim all had mods that improved their UI significantly, and in none of the cases have Bethesda taken any queues from that and implemented improvements into their own game. The UI is still horrifically bad to the point that modding is a necessity. Bethesda just don't seem like the company to me at all that even listens to the community, they keep making the game they are making in the way they are making it. Fallout 4 is basically the same game as Fallout 3 was, except a lot of shit has been stripped out and the gunplay improved.

They also don't have the tracking like they do on console for the PC mods. Because all that is done by the community. They will now be moderating this, and seeing all the data. Them just knowing the PC mods are out there is one thing, but they don't have data on who is actually using them.

Yeah, when dude was going on about his "smooth 30fps" on ps4 and basically calling the fan base liars I wouldn't put to much bank on them allowing improvement mods at all.

What dude?

They do have tracking, though. It's not -their- data, but it's not difficult to see the number of downloads a mod has on the Nexus, nor is it difficult to follow a mod and see its change log and its user rating. Sure, there are mods that exist that are not, and will never be on the Nexus, but those same mods would also never be on the console version.

While UI mods aren't invasive, they also don't follow the traditional ESM/ESP/BA2 files that serve as containers for mods. I'm betting one of the reasons Fallout 4 will be mod friendly on consoles is that those ESM/ESP files overrides preloaded content, which is why load orders are VERY important. What they don't do is modify/overwrite currently existing files. Once you uninstall the mod and start a new character, it's as if that mod never existed.

I'm pretty sure every UI mod modifies values in an ini file. A UI mod might require a font be size X to work, but once that mod is uninstalled, that font size will still be X because modifications were made to the ini.

Some UI mods also require a script extender, a different executable which would never be allowed on a closed platform.

If the dogma of console gaming is "it has to just work", that's going to limit modding.

So basically we will really only see dumb stuff like horse armor.

Dog armor*^ lol

This dude

Ah, thanks. I thought you meant someone in this conversation. I was very confused. Also that dude is a PR person? Holy crap.

@sterling: Yeah sorry about that I couldn't think of the name and was typing pretty quickly lol. Yeah, reading that was pretty disheartening. The game has pretty major performance issues even on pc and i haven't heard anything about a patch in the works at all. I'm waiting for modders to fix it on pc like they did skyrim.

I wouldn't go as far as saying just dog armor. However, I wouldn't be too surprised if console mods were limited to mods that were created 100% inside the GECK. New areas, weapons, armors, quests.

I don't think you'll see a mod on the consoles that lets you tag your current armor configuration as a favorite so you just hit one button and it'd equip your vault suit and specified limb pieces automatically, while automatically equiping a +2 charisma outfit when you entered a city.

I am baffled by the perception that Fallout 4 is broken on consoles. In my experience (PS4), it runs better than any previous Bethesda game has on consoles. The frame rate is 30 like 90% of the time (sure, you really notice when it dips, but it's not as often as people like to make it seem), and I've encountered hardly any bugs, none of which were game breaking. Sure, there's the odd animation or character pathing stuff you see in all their games, but the major bugs have been nonexistent for me. I've also not had any crashes in my 50+ hours of playing, whereas Fallout 3 and New Vegas on 360 crashed like every few hours for me (my 360 also red ringed after two weeks and like 20 system lock ups in Fallout 3).

Yea I have no problems with the typical Bethesda hi-jinks, silly brahmin, people floating, wonky animations, etc. etc. but on my PS4 the frame rate really can bog down to a very noticeable level. I'm usually not very picky when it comes down to that stuff (put 300 hours into Skyrim on PS3) so you know I have a tolerance but I was hoping this would run better considering how much more powerful this gen of consoles is compared to it's predecessors. All in all it does run better than previous Bethesda games but not as well as it should.

Mods that are created 100% inside the GECK are still going to have issues. Each individual mod may work perfectly fine on its own, but as soon as you start installing multiple mods conflicts are inevitable. These conflicts can result in anything from the mods being partially broken to preventing the game from even launching.

I hope Pete Hines was being genuine in his interview with Major Nelson when he said "We do it in a way that’s easy. I get asked this a lot on social media and Twitter. This is not about you have to have a PC and you have to do it yourself. The idea is you go to play the game and there’s a menu option and you click on it and there’s just a bunch of stuff for you to download. You click on the stuff you want and you start playing the game with these new mods. We want it to be a really streamlined, fun experience."

That sounds great, but that's also not how the game engine works. I just don't see how Bethesda/Microsoft/Sony can make this work on consoles without also giving players the tools they need to, you know, make it work.

I hope I'm 100% wrong.

All I want is god damn encumbrance removed and I'd be happy. They can keep the rest.

I hear people complain about it a lot, but I feel like encumbrance is absolutely necessary to the way the games play. Yes it's annoying, but not everything annoying is bad. I can hear people saying, "I just don't have time for that" and... sure. Okay. Everyone should be able to play a game the way they want. But I also feel like if a person doesn't play a game by the prescribed rules, they can't have an opinion on the game. i can't tell you how many times I have seen people play games, (or do a bunch of other, similar things) wherein they dilute the intended experience down to it's bare minimum level and then complain that they don't like it.

"Yeah, I watched this horror movie on my phone in the library while I was doing my homework. I didn't like it".

"Yeah, I put some of that pie in my turkey and stuffing. I thought it was gross."

"Yeah, I played Doom with invincibility and no clipping turned on. I don't see what all the fuss is about."

It doesn't make any real difference to the game play besides making it more fun when you don't have to worry about it. The system isn't even realistic in the first place, i'm carrying 6 assault rifles , a mini-gun, 3 desk fans, and 20 pieces of armor; oh wait, this pack of cigs is to heavy! Once i hit that wall i just said fuck it and got the mod to carry 999999 stuff and haven't looked back since. It's not god mode and hasn't made the game any easier, but it sure has made it a lot more fun and less annoying.

There is no possible way that it hasn't made the game easier. Being able to carry an unlimited amount of objects makes money absolutely no issue since one run of any dungeon could produce hundreds or thousands of caps.

Moreover, the encumbrance element doesn't exist to make things realistic, it exists to impose limits on gameplay elements. Limits, or rules, are what force the player to engage with other gameplay elements.

One of my favorite games of all time is Ultima 7. In ultima 7, you have to feed your characters. Not feed so they get health back, mind you, you have to feed them because they have to eat. Is it annoying? Yes. Mildly. But at the same time it introuces gameplay concepts that other RPS don't have. For instance, in most games, the only reason you would ever steal something is because you're a jerk and you think it's funny. Or, theoretically, because you want something and you don't want to get it another way. But in Ultima, sometimes you're forced to have to contemplate stealing TO FEED YOURSELF. It totally turns the whole concept on it's ear. Similarly, when you are offered help from a new party member, you wind up thinking, "Sure I want the help... but can I handle another mouth to feed?" This also forces emergent gameplay. Because the player suddenly has expenses just to keep their team up and running, engaging with the side quest elements has a functional purpose as opposed to just "I dunno... points!"

Modding out encumbrance certainly makes the game easier. It allows you to carry an unlimited number of items, which you can then convert into an unlimited amount of caps and building materials. It allows you to not have to pick and choose what to take with you when you head back to base after clearing an area. You can do in one trip that might take me two or three or more.

I play with the normal encumbrance system. I have to prioritize what I carry back to base and what I leave behind based on what I need more of at that moment. To @bananasfoster's point, I have to engage with the companion system so they can help carry stuff back to base too.

Playing without encumbrance is easier than playing with it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous.

@bane: It also breaks the armor system.

The benefit of having light armor is that you have more slots to carry things. The natural negative to heavy armor is that it weighs you down and you have less slots to carry things. Without encumbrance... who cares! Carry all things all the time!