" @Duecenage said:

" @Hailinel:  Right, and they'll be allowed to post the score once the front page of that site no longer looks like "Buy Fallout: New Vegas Today! 4.1/10" And who knows what kind of agreement the website signs when bethesda gives them their paycheck. I'd assume most publishers would have a "You can rate this game however you feel as long as you wait until the ad campaign is finished before you post it." Cause if they didn't, then they should get their legal team to update that agreement contract. "

Assumptions like this really shouldn't be made.  Although review embargos do exist, they're to prevent game reviews from being posted prior to a specific date and have nothing to do with advertising.  If I buy a month's worth of advertising on a site, what sense would it make to block the review from being posted for the entire duration of that month?  Review websites are expected to post reviews in a timely manner in order to help and inform consumers ASAP.  Waiting to post the review until a month after release does nothing. "

" @Diamond said:

" @ApolloBob:  The purpose he serves by naming the name of Bethesda is far more important to everyone but Bethesda's marketing department than naming the names of his sources, right?  In this case Sessler made a rant not too many days ago over a very similar issue.  He's not the only one this time, anyways. "

Ah yes - d'oh - my bad.  I saw the references to Sessler in the thread, but haven't heard his rant. If there is a linky, I'd like to hear/read it.  I'm probably cynical, but Bethesda is unlikely to suffer any real significant backlash to affect them financially.  They'll just say "Whaaa?  We had nothing to do with this.", much like Eidos did back in the Gerstmann gate days.   And for all I know the majority of the company really doesn't know anything about any of this, but it's always a good idea to distance yourself from scandal regardless.  I'm also returning to Gooddoggy's comment about "protecting your sources" which is an excellent point to raise, but begs the question - When Dan Hsu tweets, is he doing it as an extension of his journalism?  In other words - is his tweeting to be taken as "reporting"? "

I'm pretty sure it's Gamesradar. They had page-filled ads for Fallout: New Vegas  (now with Vanquish on it) and are usually on the ball about having reviews early, but alas no review....hmmmm....

" This is why advertising's place in videogames causes a big problem.  Advertising should not have any merit to what or when a review score is posted.  This is just ridiculous. "

" Give it a bad score all you want, give it a month of ad space all you want. What happens when you add the two together. "

" @Apathylad: Advertisers need to chill the fuck out, if a game isn't good, or does not receive a ten then they need to deal with that. Reviewing games is about honestly telling your own opinion. If you don't like the review MAKE THE GAME BETTER. This kind of stuff is really frustrating. "

" @ApolloBob said:

" @Diamond said:

" @ApolloBob:  The purpose he serves by naming the name of Bethesda is far more important to everyone but Bethesda's marketing department than naming the names of his sources, right?  In this case Sessler made a rant not too many days ago over a very similar issue.  He's not the only one this time, anyways. "

Ah yes - d'oh - my bad.  I saw the references to Sessler in the thread, but haven't heard his rant. If there is a linky, I'd like to hear/read it.  I'm probably cynical, but Bethesda is unlikely to suffer any real significant backlash to affect them financially.  They'll just say "Whaaa?  We had nothing to do with this.", much like Eidos did back in the Gerstmann gate days.   And for all I know the majority of the company really doesn't know anything about any of this, but it's always a good idea to distance yourself from scandal regardless.  I'm also returning to Gooddoggy's comment about "protecting your sources" which is an excellent point to raise, but begs the question - When Dan Hsu tweets, is he doing it as an extension of his journalism?  In other words - is his tweeting to be taken as "reporting"? "

After reading through some of the other responses, I'm coming more into the "Hsu should have kept his mouth shut" camp.  I don't think my original post was clear enough, though.  Unless Hsu's source (or friend) went on the record with him about this, then it would be unethical for him to out that guy.  HOWEVER, Hsu shouldn't spread a rumor without a source to back it up, and if even naming the publication would hurt the source, then it's better to kill the story rather than to throw out nameless accusations.  I know Twitter isn't the The Times, but once you start making a living as a journalist, you lose the ability to start rumors about the field you cover.  Hsu should be smart enough to know that when he states something about the game industry as a fact, even in a super casual forum, then people will take it seriously, and he should have been prepared to back up his statement. For all the GB crew jokes about stuff, I can't think of an instance where they've ever seriously implied that another site/writer was "on the take."  I'm pretty sure that even when they've talked about shenanigans they've seen or heard about, they haven't hinted at the specific game or companies involved.  "

" This shit is still going on? Seriously? "

You mean corruption? Don't be so naive, it's everywhere.

And this doesn't surprise me one bit.

Dan Hsu isn't a journalist (any more than we are all babe magnets), so I don't see why journalistic ethics is being bandied about. He works in industry news/product reviews. The industry metes out information, the press repeats it with (or without) commentary and context. The industry releases a product, the press issues a product review. Symbiosis. If Hsu wants to wink-wink nod-nod about some shenanigans, he's not doing anything ethically wrong, except maybe biting the hand that feeds him. Is it a bit petty and attention-whorish? Sure, a bit. 
 
And if some of you kids don't enjoy the corporate culture of America, I hear Cambodia is a nice alternative. I kid! I kid! Just stop your grousing!
 
Anyway, what Hsu--and possibly Bethesda--did is silly and a bit ridiculous, but can we at least get away from calling these folks journalists? There are about five that actually practice any sort of journalism, and it's far from daily. 
 
Thank you for your time and please eat your vegetables.

" Is it the game that broken?  If it is, I'll probably just wait a while to get it and might play the pc version just to hope for some mods to clean it up. "

" @frostyxc:  Finally, someone understands that there are hardly any games journalists. Just games bloggers or other things. "

" Sounds like what Sessler was soapboxing about the other day.  It sounds like it's affecting lots of media outlets, too. "

" @Skytylz said:

" Is it the game that broken?  If it is, I'll probably just wait a while to get it and might play the pc version just to hope for some mods to clean it up. "

As someone who rarely experiences bugs in supposedly buggy games I have to say I was in New Vegas on my PC for less than 10 secs and I noticed that the game was strangely choppy  (Not FPS wise) it would stall as I looked around the enviroment but if I ran in a straight line I was fine, also the characters around me were jittering when they walked, I turned off character emotions with a console command and it ran buttery smooth, I mean come on wtf is that? I turn of emotes and the game runs just fine? Wtf. The game is pretty messed up (but Highly addictive ended up playing it till 3am last night and had to work at 6am) "

I love the double standard that game companies impose on consumers; it's ok for a game company to basically lie, steal, or otherwise do things that walk the legal line (or are even outright illegal) but hey, we can't pirate games, because the game companies said so. Fucking corporations, fucking despotic bastards.

" Why don't all the major game sites band together and tell publishers to cut this shit out?  
 
I mean I understand if one site, let's say Giant Bomb,  were to tell Activision for instance to fuck off, then I imagine Giant Bomb probably wouldn't be seeing many Activision games for review. But what if everyone did it? As far as I can tell, games journalists are a relatively close knit bunch, it seems like it would be possible... "

" Dan Hsu isn't a journalist (any more than we are all babe magnets), so I don't see why journalistic ethics is being bandied about. He works in industry news/product reviews. The industry metes out information, the press repeats it with (or without) commentary and context. The industry releases a product, the press issues a product review. Symbiosis. If Hsu wants to wink-wink nod-nod about some shenanigans, he's not doing anything ethically wrong, except maybe biting the hand that feeds him. Is it a bit petty and attention-whorish? Sure, a bit.   And if some of you kids don't enjoy the corporate culture of America, I hear Cambodia is a nice alternative. I kid! I kid! Just stop your grousing!  Anyway, what Hsu--and possibly Bethesda--did is silly and a bit ridiculous, but can we at least get away from calling these folks journalists? There are about five that actually practice any sort of journalism, and it's far from daily.   Thank you for your time and please eat your vegetables. "

Wow, censorship. 
 
My opinion of Bethesda/Obsidian just plummeted.

" That's awesome.  I love America and our corporate nature. "

....i actually really like it.....

It sucks to hear stories like this still happening.  You would think that publishers and developers would've learned by now that we'll learn about the shady undealings of this. 
 
Moreover, people shouldn't be afraid of lower scores for their games.  Instead, have confidence in your product.  I would like to think that most people will realize that New Vegas is going to be a buggy game at launch, and anyone who DIDN'T expect that needs to recheck their gaming dedication.  Games ship with bugs, especially games shipping on the Gamebryo engine and from Obsidian. 
 
REGARDLESS, the game is completely worthwhile.  The bugs and glitches are seriously the only problem I've found with the game, as everything else is sooooo much more satisfying than Fallout 3 was.  As someone who constantly talked shit about Fallout 3 before its release (you can surf this site's Fallout 3 forums for proof), it feels good to defend New Vegas. 
 
Sadly, Bethesda and Obsidian don't seem to feel that way.  Instead, they want to mask something that doesn't need to be masked.  Opinions are opinions, and I think Fallout New Vegas will do just fine sales-wise without shady-as-fuck tactics like this.

Just watched the Sessler's Soapbox that people are talking about. 
 
As someone who has run a game review website, despite the fact that it was small, I've dealt with this situation personally.  It's fucking frustrating, and I agree 100% with every word Sessler had to say.  I rarely care for what the man says or thinks, and I'm not a fan of G4.  However, that single episode of Soapbox gained far more respect for him from me. 
 
Preach on, brother Sessler.  Preach on!

" @jakob187: As someone who hates X-play I can say that Sessler's soapbox is actually quite interesting.. "

" This again? I believe him, and would love to know what pussy site it is. "