Does FFIX Have the Most Diverse Cast in the Series?

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Video_Game_King

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thatpinguino

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#52 thatpinguino  Staff

@hunter5024: I think that necron does serve an important function at the end of FFIX, in a similar fashion to Yu Yevon. Firstly, FFIX is a game that is about nostalgia and the concept of home, the game's title track is "A place to call home" and it constantly calls back to FF games from the past. =The final dungeon of the game is completely outside of the world in which the rest of the game takes place, Memoria is a realm made up of memories. This final dungeon sees the party moving back in time and fighting the four elemental fiends from FFI as well as listening to s Man named Garland, which is the name of the main villian from FFI. The dungeon culminates in a giant crystal, much like many of the older FF games. Therefore, I think Necron is not intended to be a boss that makes sense within FFI, but rather as a boss that makes sense when looking at the series as a whole. He is the stand in for Chaos in this recreation of the end of FFI, and the culmination of a trip through FF history. Thus, while he does not make sense strictly within the story of IX, he does make sense when looking at IX as a work of nostalgia, much like how when Zidane says, "No cloud, no squall shall hinder us!" during the play at the end of the game it is a bit odd, unless you know that Squall and Cloud were the last two FF protagonists.

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#53  Edited By thatpinguino  Staff

@hunter5024: I think that necron does serve an important function at the end of FFIX, in a similar fashion to Yu Yevon. Firstly, FFIX is a game that is about nostalgia and the concept of home, the game's title track is "A place to call home" and it constantly calls back to FF games from the past. =The final dungeon of the game is completely outside of the world in which the rest of the game takes place, Memoria is a realm made up of memories. This final dungeon sees the party moving back in time and fighting the four elemental fiends from FFI as well as listening to s Man named Garland, which is the name of the main villian from FFI. The dungeon culminates in a giant crystal, much like many of the older FF games. Therefore, I think Necron is not intended to be a boss that makes sense within FFI, but rather as a boss that makes sense when looking at the series as a whole. He is the stand in for Chaos in this recreation of the end of FFI, and the culmination of a trip through FF history. Thus, while he does not make sense strictly within the story of IX, he does make sense when looking at IX as a work of nostalgia, much like how when Zidane says, "No cloud, no squall shall hinder us!" during the play at the end of the game it is a bit odd, unless you know that Squall and Cloud were the last two FF protagonists.

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thatpinguino

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#54  Edited By thatpinguino  Staff

@hailinel: I suppose the stereotypes in FF games can come in a few flavors, for example you have the american cowboy in Irvine, or the stuffy British knight in Steiner. Those characters are stereotypes of white people from the real world, but there are plenty of non-stereotypical characters with white skin in the ff games. There just aren't any with black skin that I know of and I think that is odd.

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Hailinel

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@hailinel: I suppose the stereotypes in FF games can come in a few flavors, for example you have the american cowboy in Irvine, or the stuffy British knight in Steiner. Those characters are stereotypes of white people from the real world, but there are plenty of non-stereotypical characters with white skin in the ff games. There just aren't any with black skin that I know of and I think that is odd.

I wouldn't classify Irvine as a stereotypical cowboy. He's just easy to pin that way because of his choice of headwear. He's a smooth-talker that has a lot of trouble backing himself up. And while I can't comment on Steiner, I have to imagine that in the original Japanese, Barret's dialogue in FFVII was far less Mr. T than the (actually really bad) localization portrayed him to have. Certainly, he doesn't come across as a Mr. T surrogate in either Dirge of Cerberus or Advent Children.

@hunter5024: I think that necron does serve an important function at the end of FFIX, in a similar fashion to Yu Yevon. Firstly, FFIX is a game that is about nostalgia and the concept of home, the game's title track is "A place to call home" and it constantly calls back to FF games from the past. =The final dungeon of the game is completely outside of the world in which the rest of the game takes place, Memoria is a realm made up of memories. This final dungeon sees the party moving back in time and fighting the four elemental fiends from FFI as well as listening to s Man named Garland, which is the name of the main villian from FFI. The dungeon culminates in a giant crystal, much like many of the older FF games. Therefore, I think Necron is not intended to be a boss that makes sense within FFI, but rather as a boss that makes sense when looking at the series as a whole. He is the stand in for Chaos in this recreation of the end of FFI, and the culmination of a trip through FF history. Thus, while he does not make sense strictly within the story of IX, he does make sense when looking at IX as a work of nostalgia, much like how when Zidane says, "No cloud, no squall shall hinder us!" during the play at the end of the game it is a bit odd, unless you know that Squall and Cloud were the last two FF protagonists.

The thing is, justifying Necron as some sort of Final Fantasy throwback villain in that manner doesn't really work. You can't justify poor storytelling with the explanation that the storytelling in the games it references is poor.

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Video_Game_King

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@hailinel said:

Barret's dialogue in FFVII was far less Mr. T than the (actually really bad) localization portrayed him to have.

That depends; how black do you think anime is?

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#57 thatpinguino  Staff

@hailinel: i'm not saying that the storytelling of FFI is poor, I'm saying that the game is going out of its way to call back to FFI. It makes sense when you look at the game as a trip through FF's past (and since the game was Hironobu Sakaguchi's last game) it makes sense as a reference to that past. The end of the game is a trip to where it all began, literally as all life came from the crystal in FFIX's world, and for the series itself with crystal, Garland, the four fiends, and chaos.

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nsmb2_mario

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FFIX is my favorite game and I personally find this thread absolutely cringe-worthy with its casual racism.

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Hailinel

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@hailinel said:

Barret's dialogue in FFVII was far less Mr. T than the (actually really bad) localization portrayed him to have.

That depends; how black do you think anime is?

I have no idea what that link is in reference to.

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@hailinel:

It's the Japanese script to FF7, in reference to the "localization made him Mr. T-esque" comment. In the original script, he just sounded really anime, which I guess translates to Mr. T?

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@hailinel:

It's the Japanese script to FF7, in reference to the "localization made him Mr. T-esque" comment. In the original script, he just sounded really anime, which I guess translates to Mr. T?

How do you sound "really anime"? That's like saying someone is "stereotypically white." It has no real meaning.

@hailinel: i'm not saying that the storytelling of FFI is poor, I'm saying that the game is going out of its way to call back to FFI. It makes sense when you look at the game as a trip through FF's past (and since the game was Hironobu Sakaguchi's last game) it makes sense as a reference to that past. The end of the game is a trip to where it all began, literally as all life came from the crystal in FFIX's world, and for the series itself with crystal, Garland, the four fiends, and chaos.

Either way, it's a poorly written callback to shove Necron in at the very last second without any sort of warning. In the original Final Fantasy, Garland and Chaos are one in the same. There's some goofy time-twisting going on, but it at least works as well as it does because Garland is encountered early on and is an established foe. What connects Necron to any of the other characters?

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#62 thatpinguino  Staff

@hailinel: He is connected to the crystal, not the characters. He is summoned when Kuja destroys the crystal, in effect he is the result of Kuja's attempt to destroy the world.

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#63  Edited By Video_Game_King

@hailinel said:

@video_game_king said:

@hailinel:

It's the Japanese script to FF7, in reference to the "localization made him Mr. T-esque" comment. In the original script, he just sounded really anime, which I guess translates to Mr. T?

How do you sound "really anime"? That's like saying someone is "stereotypically white." It has no real meaning.

Really rough speech, tossing "ore"s around and turning all your "nai" sounds to "nee", with a healthy bit of "chikushou" here and there. I think there's more to it, but that's all I can remember right now. Basically, sounding anime means you're talking like Kanji Tatsumi.

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#64  Edited By Hailinel

@video_game_king said:

@hailinel said:

@video_game_king said:

@hailinel:

It's the Japanese script to FF7, in reference to the "localization made him Mr. T-esque" comment. In the original script, he just sounded really anime, which I guess translates to Mr. T?

How do you sound "really anime"? That's like saying someone is "stereotypically white." It has no real meaning.

Really rough speech, tossing "ore"s around and turning all your "nai" sounds to "nee", with a healthy bit of "chikushou" here and there. I think there's more to it, but that's all I can remember right now.

That's not "anime". That's a gruff caricature of a tough guy that exists in any Japanese media.

@thatpinguino said:

@hailinel: He is connected to the crystal, not the characters. He is summoned when Kuja destroys the crystal, in effect he is the result of Kuja's attempt to destroy the world.

Then why have Necron show up at all? They already had Kuja as the primary villain. What does adding Necron to the narrative at the very end accomplish?

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FF VI does. IX is sort of an homage to that game and V... but VI had an insanely huge cast of characters including a Moogle, a yet, a little girl, a ninja, a Dragon ball Z character, Tony Stark, and a girl who was half summon to name a few...

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@hailinel said:

@video_game_king said:

@hailinel said:

How do you sound "really anime"? That's like saying someone is "stereotypically white." It has no real meaning.

Really rough speech, tossing "ore"s around and turning all your "nai" sounds to "nee", with a healthy bit of "chikushou" here and there. I think there's more to it, but that's all I can remember right now.

That's not "anime". That's a gruff caricature of a tough guy that exists in any Japanese media.

If you go around talking like that in Japan, people will think you've watched too much anime. (As evidence, I cite this and any time AJATT (the guy I got the FF7 script from) talks about talking in Japanese and how he sounds rough as hell.) Therefore, it's anime.

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Hailinel

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#67  Edited By Hailinel

@hailinel said:

@video_game_king said:

@hailinel said:

How do you sound "really anime"? That's like saying someone is "stereotypically white." It has no real meaning.

Really rough speech, tossing "ore"s around and turning all your "nai" sounds to "nee", with a healthy bit of "chikushou" here and there. I think there's more to it, but that's all I can remember right now.

That's not "anime". That's a gruff caricature of a tough guy that exists in any Japanese media.

If you go around talking like that in Japan, people will think you've watched too much anime. (As evidence, I cite this and any time AJATT (the guy I got the FF7 script from) talks about talking in Japanese and how he sounds rough as hell.) Therefore, it's anime.

Neither page you linked to even contains the word "anime."

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@hailinel said:

Neither page you linked to even contains the word "anime."

手前【て・めえ】 - Very rude. Like 「お前」, to add extra punch, people will usually say it like, 「てめ~~」. Sounds like you want to beat someone up. I've only seen this one used in movies and comic books. In fact, if you try this on your friends, they will probably laugh at you and tell you that you've probably been reading too many comic books.

Which is pretty close to what I'm saying, given how much overlap there is between manga and anime.

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#69  Edited By cornbredx

I don't know, but I still enjoy IX a lot.

I always felt it was under rated.

I don't remember the story really but I always found it the most fun to play next to 7.

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Hailinel

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@hailinel said:

Neither page you linked to even contains the word "anime."

手前【て・めえ】 - Very rude. Like 「お前」, to add extra punch, people will usually say it like, 「てめ~~」. Sounds like you want to beat someone up. I've only seen this one used in movies and comic books. In fact, if you try this on your friends, they will probably laugh at you and tell you that you've probably been reading too many comic books.

Which is pretty close to what I'm saying, given how much overlap there is between manga and anime.

Or live action movies and television. As I said, it's not anime-specific and it's rather absurd to characterize it as such.

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#71  Edited By thatpinguino  Staff

@hailinel: I already provided a host of reasons, if you don't find them compelling then I got nothin for you. Maybe play the game and see how it is for yourself. I personally don't find Necron that offensive. Also his name is dope as shit.

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@thatpinguino: Yeah, 9 is easily my favorite FF game and Necron is such a small part of it.

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@thatpinguino: I was trying to justify Yu Yevon more than criticize Necron. I totally get what they were going for with him, and I can appreciate it, but I also feel it could have been handled a lot better.

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