Doesn't seem to be much variety in this.

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Krullban

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Not only in environments, but there also doesn't seem to be very many armor sets or weapons. Weapons especially. Everybody I see basically looks the same and are using the same weapons.

I understand that each weapon can transform. But I would have liked a variety of different weapons of the same type.

Does it change later in the game? Because so far I'm just seeing all of the same, and it being better to just always be using the starting weapons because there isn't much of anything else.

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Sessh

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#2  Edited By Sessh

I agree about the environments (at least from what I've seen so far) and I wouldn't mind more armor, but I think they actually did a really good job on the weapons.

I tried lots of weapons in my hundreds of hours with the previous DS games, but most of them just never felt viable in any way, except if you wanted to go for a very, very specific or a joke build. Sure there aren't as many weapons as there were in DS, but they mostly play so differently that it's actually fun to really experiment with them and every single one I tried so far seems to have it's own merits, which makes the combat way more flexible if you ask me.

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bavelb

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There's currently about 15 melee weapons, 9 firearms, and 19 attires (armor sets) known according to differing wiki's.

Plus there's runes to upgrade/adjust items (cutrently about 24 in wiki's).

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Karkarov

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There is some more variety in weapons the further you get. I have found a spear for example that also has a gun mounted on it.

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cloudymusic

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@sessh said:

I tried lots of weapons in my hundreds of hours with the previous DS games, but most of them just never felt viable in any way, except if you wanted to go for a very, very specific or a joke build. Sure there aren't as many weapons as there were in DS, but they mostly play so differently that it's actually fun to really experiment with them and every single one I tried so far seems to have it's own merits, which makes the combat way more flexible if you ask me.

Yeah, I agree. The actual "build diversity" is less than previous games, but the amount of actual moveset diversity you have access to with a single pair of equipped weapons is much larger than before, since every weapon has two modes.

I do agree about the environments, also. My favorite things about the Souls games have always been the varied and cool-looking environments. At least Yharnam looks good.

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OnionKnight14

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(Warning: I haven't played it)
From what I've gathered from videos, etc. each of the weapons has a more varied moveset than previous installments. Is that true?

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Zevvion

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@bavelb said:

There's currently about 15 melee weapons, 9 firearms, and 19 attires (armor sets) known according to differing wiki's.

Plus there's runes to upgrade/adjust items (cutrently about 24 in wiki's).

Since they all transform that's 30, let's say. Plus 9 firearms is 39.

There are 223 weapons in Dark Souls II. Some of them don't feel as unique, but a lot of them have special stats, innate abilities and whatnot. There seems to be a lot more diversity there even without transforming weapons.

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TobbRobb

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Can you actually two hand weapons in this game like normal? Or are some transformations just two-handed. Because you know, technically the older games also had two movesets for every weapon (similar ones generally though).

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@tobbrobb said:

Can you actually two hand weapons in this game like normal? Or are some transformations just two-handed. Because you know, technically the older games also had two movesets for every weapon (similar ones generally though).

Transformations may be two-handed. If not, there is no way to two hand a weapon like before. You're right about a weapon having a different moveset while two-handing, but still the transformations change the attacktype altogether, not just the moveset; so that is even more different. Nevertheless, in total Bloodborne obviously has less to offer in sheer numbers. Even if you multiply ever weapon by 2.

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doctordonkey

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I find myself finding a weapon and saying "Oh cool, I wonder what this does.", rather than "Oh, great, another shitty sword I'm never gonna touch, guess I'll vender it". I really prefer this new mindset of less, but more meaningful equipment.

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I find myself finding a weapon and saying "Oh cool, I wonder what this does.", rather than "Oh, great, another shitty sword I'm never gonna touch, guess I'll vender it". I really prefer this new mindset of less, but more meaningful equipment.

I agree. So far all the weapons I've found are cool, can't say that about the Souls games where I have about 100+ weapons in my inventory but use like 2 or 3.

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golguin

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(Warning: I haven't played it)

From what I've gathered from videos, etc. each of the weapons has a more varied moveset than previous installments. Is that true?

Each weapon has a more varied moveset than any of the weapons in the previous games. The way this is going to influence PVP is quite staggering because everyone is going to be able to quick select between two weapons and two firearms for completely different builds.

A two handed weapon in the Souls game vs a transformed weapon in Bloodborne doesn't even compare.

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GERALTITUDE

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I guess for me I was not interested in 80% of most everything you found in the other souls games, and I assumed they wanted each item to be more meaningful this time around. Too early for me to say if they accomplished that.

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Zevvion

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@golguin said:

@onionknight14 said:

(Warning: I haven't played it)

From what I've gathered from videos, etc. each of the weapons has a more varied moveset than previous installments. Is that true?

Each weapon has a more varied moveset than any of the weapons in the previous games. The way this is going to influence PVP is quite staggering because everyone is going to be able to quick select between two weapons and two firearms for completely different builds.

A two handed weapon in the Souls game vs a transformed weapon in Bloodborne doesn't even compare.

Perhaps. I disagree so far. Yes individual weapons differ much more from each other here, but DSII had such a high number of weapons, that even when they don't rack up individually, there is still much, much more diversity in that game on what each PvP guy can use than here. I also don't think the weapons from previous games are given a fair shake, just because they don't have cool transforming animations. There are still bunches of weapons in those games, especially DSII, that have unique abilities that basically act like transformations. For example, there is a sword in DSII that acts much like the Cane. It doesn't have less moves either.

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slyspider

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There is less variety in play style, everyone is melee dps that is pretty quick to some extent. No mage only or archer or tanks. Super disappointed in the replay value out this, one play will prob be enough unless it opens up later on

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Substance_D

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#16  Edited By Substance_D

I do wish the environments were a little more varied, but I don't mind the gun and gear scarcity. The ones I've found so far are great...especially the Blade of Mercy!

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golguin

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@zevvion said:

@golguin said:

@onionknight14 said:

(Warning: I haven't played it)

From what I've gathered from videos, etc. each of the weapons has a more varied moveset than previous installments. Is that true?

Each weapon has a more varied moveset than any of the weapons in the previous games. The way this is going to influence PVP is quite staggering because everyone is going to be able to quick select between two weapons and two firearms for completely different builds.

A two handed weapon in the Souls game vs a transformed weapon in Bloodborne doesn't even compare.

Perhaps. I disagree so far. Yes individual weapons differ much more from each other here, but DSII had such a high number of weapons, that even when they don't rack up individually, there is still much, much more diversity in that game on what each PvP guy can use than here. I also don't think the weapons from previous games are given a fair shake, just because they don't have cool transforming animations. There are still bunches of weapons in those games, especially DSII, that have unique abilities that basically act like transformations. For example, there is a sword in DSII that acts much like the Cane. It doesn't have less moves either.

Here is the difference I think. I played 100s of PVP hours in DS1 and DS2 and I pretty much faced every PVP build. You know that going into any fight you could look at an opponent and know what they were about. You can look at their clothes and immediately tell the sort of build that would best suit what they're wearing. The vast majority of weapons had similar movesets so you only needed to know that one animation that was different to prepare for a counter attack. The trick weapons are so fast with their transformations that it will be difficult to anticipate the mixup when someone can immediately fake you out with what they're about to hit you with.

If you want to talk about DS2 PVP diversity you know as well as I do that people gravitate towards very few builds. It was fairly funny to see the rise and fall of the Monastery Scimitar as its parry window was adjusted with the patches. The backstep parry as well. You wouldn't need to look online to tell when a change happened because most people on the Iron Bridge didn't even bother hiding the fact that it was in their offhand. Those people got my Great Combustion spam.

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There is less variety in play style, everyone is melee dps that is pretty quick to some extent. No mage only or archer or tanks. Super disappointed in the replay value out this, one play will prob be enough unless it opens up later on

Whaaaaat? Are there no bows? I prefer to play archers in these games, am I going to HAVE to be melee focused in Bloodborne when I eventually play it?

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Counterclockwork87

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@xyzygy: yes. This is bloodborne not dark souls 3. You can't be an archer in Bayonetta 2 but it's still an awesome game. This game is more action-heavy.

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Wait until you get to the snow boarding sequence!

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@xyzygy: yes. This is bloodborne not dark souls 3. You can't be an archer in Bayonetta 2 but it's still an awesome game. This game is more action-heavy.

They are making a souls game in all but name, but offering less choice but a more refined melee dps than any souls had before. It feels great. Playing it a second time will likely end up with a very similar playing char as your first time however and lack of creativity with builds is a huge HUGE negative for me. I like it, but it isn't a souls game like I wanted in that aspect

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@xyzygy: There are guns, though they seem not that powerful.

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@nictel: if you want to stay back and shoot enemies to death they suck, yes.

but using them to counter enemy attacks makes them huge

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SethPhotopoulos

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@zevvion: Wow. You Carly Rae Jepsen DSII.

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deactivated-582d227526464

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I find myself finding a weapon and saying "Oh cool, I wonder what this does.", rather than "Oh, great, another shitty sword I'm never gonna touch, guess I'll vender it". I really prefer this new mindset of less, but more meaningful equipment.

these are my thoughts exactly. you ended up using one primary weapon for most Souls runs anyhow (at least i did). if there are less weapons, but they do more and i want to do a run with each one, then thats fine by me. im glad they didn't just give me more of the same and changed things up fundamentally.

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Zevvion

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@claybrez said:

@doctordonkey said:

I find myself finding a weapon and saying "Oh cool, I wonder what this does.", rather than "Oh, great, another shitty sword I'm never gonna touch, guess I'll vender it". I really prefer this new mindset of less, but more meaningful equipment.

these are my thoughts exactly. you ended up using one primary weapon for most Souls runs anyhow (at least i did). if there are less weapons, but they do more and i want to do a run with each one, then thats fine by me. im glad they didn't just give me more of the same and changed things up fundamentally.

Hm, I don't know. I went with Skill and there haven't been a lot of weapons so far that really take advantage of that. Not being able to respec and having so few weapons to choose from narrows your weapon choice and use a lot more than in previous games I'd say.

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deactivated-582d227526464

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that's completely true. there's obviously less options. im just hoping replayability won't suffer too bad. though, the linearity so far is a little concerning.

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#28  Edited By bushpusherr

While there isn't quite as much variety in environments or weaponry compared to the other Souls games, I actually appreciate the refinement. The environments definitely get more diverse as the game goes on (not sure how far in I am, but I'm warping to areas in the third Awakening stone if that tells you anything), but they feel more cohesive and grounded than any other in the series in my opinion. The areas actually feel like they link together naturally and realistically, instead of just creating artificial pathways between zones of different themes like it sometimes felt in Dark Souls.

I most appreciate the refinement in the weapons/equipment. SO much of the loot in the previous games served identical purposes. I probably never even equipped 75% of the equipment in those games even after playing each of them numerous times with different builds. I always favored melee builds so I love what they've done with the combat here. I enjoyed playing pure magic builds and what not for subsequent runs, but I totally think that those are quite a bit easier and more passive play styles. I'm happy to be funneled into attacking more aggressively.

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deactivated-582d227526464

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@bushpusherr said:

The areas actually feel like they link together naturally and realistically, instead of just creating artificial pathways between zones of different themes like it sometimes felt in Dark Souls.

I've noticed this too actually. I really appreciate this difference. Dark Souls began to feel sterile after a few playthroughs. This world however really feels lived in and with its own history. From a design standpoint its more interesting too imo.

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I appreciate the varied environments in the Souls games, but I'm also loving the cityscapes of this one so far. The change in atmosphere makes each environment fresh. The difference between Central Yharnam and the cathedral area is noticeable.

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Do_The_Manta_Ray

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#31  Edited By Do_The_Manta_Ray

Later on in the game, a considerable amount of new mechanics enter the equation, such as the Charyll runes, which are replaceable stat changes and buffs (poison resistance, additional stamina, bullet-drops when you 'visceral' kill an enemy) that can help you set up in a specific way for a boss or an area that you're having trouble with. Feel like you need more poison resistance? Bloodborne got you covered.

Magic is back. Yep, there is in fact magic in this game. And there are a lot of ranged weapons that scale with the arcane (magic) stat, so expect to start seeing a lot of late game builds that focus entirely on those elements. There's a ridiculously impressive knock-back spell, which I imagine will work pretty well together with a long distance weapon, or hell.. Anything with the flamethrower / cannon. (Yeees, those are in the game, and they're so much cooler than you could imagine.) More complicated weapon runes also unlock later on in the game, which basically enable you to ascend your weapons as in the previous games to become "raw", "enchanted", etc. It isn't a permanent change this time around however.

And there's plenty of elements already introduced that begin to become more important as the game goes on. The stat for your ranged weapon, for instance, also allows you to do more damage the more covered you are in blood. There are pills you can swallow to obtain a similar effect, and so, you can do some pretty neat preparation for a boss fight by bathing in the blood of your enemies. Literally.

You also begin to see some VERY diverse environments later on. And the game continues to do a fantastic job of fucking you over in every which way imaginable. My favourite one being, "hey, you know this from our previous games. NO, NO, YOU DON'T!" by which I mean they punish the hell out of you for making assumptions based on prior experience with the series. To the point where they're deliberately setting certain things up to seem familiar only to tear you down a notch.

There's other stuff, but I don't want to spoil more than I already have. My point being, the game really begins to open up as you get into it. I don't think re-playability will be a problem, whatsoever.

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Dark

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#32  Edited By Dark

Ha, while there where lots of weapons most of them boiled down to 'Oh this is a longsword type' or 'This is a great axe type'. Whilst there are FAR less 'skins' for each weapon type, each weapon feels vastly different to the others especially when you add the comboing into transformation complexities.

::EDIT:: I do get the lack of weapons with different stats but cmon, most of the time raw damage or bleeding won due to resistances with other types.

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ripelivejam

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Game seems to be suffering a bit from current gen woes; limited content and scope in exchange for high graphics fidelity. Budgets are just becoming too big it seems. Regardless, it obviously didn't get hit nearly as hard with this as destiny, infamous, etc. as it still is a mostly fine game. I probably won't ever get as deep as most will so it's mostky alright by me.

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Actually, there's a pretty decent number of weapons:

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons (this is only the currently known ones, and 5 were added just today)

However, unlike Dark Souls or Demon Souls, most weapons do not mimic combat styles/animations of other weapons. A lot of the weapon "variety" in the prior souls games were a bunch of weapons of the same class that looked slightly different and had different stats, but attacked exactly the same (sometimes slowed down or sped up).

Armor, on the other hand, I dunno. Seeing as it's clothing instead of armor in this game, I can semi understand them sticking with hunting outfits from gothic media, and that's kind of a limited palette/selection.

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bceagles128

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I still like the game but I agree that it is nowhere near as good as dark souls in terms of environment, weapon and build variety.

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Do_The_Manta_Ray

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#36  Edited By Do_The_Manta_Ray

I want to go out of my way to point out that most of the depth in previous iterations of the series only came into play fairly far into the game proper. It wasn't before you were done with Anor Londo that most of the mechanics had been introduced in Dark Souls. In Demon's Souls, it took beating the flame-lurker and the entire third world.

Most of us are fairly early on, so it's only natural for the game not to have reached the same complexity as the other games do at the end of their respective cycles. Now, I've played quite a bit of Bloodborne, and if you see my last message in this same thread, you'll probably notice that there are a LOT of mechanics that you didn't even know were in the game. My opinion is currently that there is depth galore. They're just dishing it out slower as not to completely overwhelm people. But yes, you can totally do 100 % magic or ranged builds, or a mix of the different disciplines. Just not from the outset. But with more emphasis on New Game + this time, that won't be an issue in the long run.

Let's give this baby a chance to age a bit before popping it open is all I'm saying.

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Not that I needed to be convinced, but somehow I'm even more on board after I found this great item description. "Sometimes a sea of flame is just what the doctor ordered." :)

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SubliminalKitteh

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listen to @do_the_manta_ray in this thread people, as a person nearing NG++, once I figure out what I need for the third ending, I can attest that the second half of this game is MUCH different than the first half. Don't determine your build for NG, NG+ and beyond is where most if not all the unique weapons, gadgets, armor, and runes show up. Skill/Bloodtinge builds for guns, and Arcane/Bloodtinge builds for "magic" are late game stuff, which is a bummer since there is no mechanic for respeccing that I've found.

Also this post doesn't have the word blood in it enough so, BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLUD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD

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shinjin977

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#39  Edited By shinjin977

This is quite a premature conclusion to come to the first week the game came out, considering people were discovering builds in Demon/DS/DS2 years after release. And yes there are less "skin" for weapons but the word variety is wrong for this, seeing as the unique move set from weapons found in the first 10 hour probably suppresses DS2.

Quick tip. did you know that a quick tap of R1 after a quick step launch a unique animation?

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kishinfoulux

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So far I don't have much interest in the stuff I've found or unlocked in the shop. Part of that is because the Axe is too OP to give up and has a nice moveset. I want to mess with the Threaded Cane, but I've heard some awful things about how weak it is and, while great for trash mobs, does jack shit on bosses. Might be worth upgrading on just for trash maybe. No interest in any of the Saw stuff (blade and spear), or the Rifle Spear. I wanna check out Ludwig, once I unlock it, but beyond that there isn't much.

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Zevvion

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So far I don't have much interest in the stuff I've found or unlocked in the shop. Part of that is because the Axe is too OP to give up and has a nice moveset. I want to mess with the Threaded Cane, but I've heard some awful things about how weak it is and, while great for trash mobs, does jack shit on bosses. Might be worth upgrading on just for trash maybe. No interest in any of the Saw stuff (blade and spear), or the Rifle Spear. I wanna check out Ludwig, once I unlock it, but beyond that there isn't much.

For what it's worth, I have beaten 5 bosses with the Threaded Cane and had no problem doing so. It does do very little damage, but I am using visceral attacks almost exclusively, and it doesn't seem like I'm at a disadvantage using it. I like using the Threaded Cane most right now.

This is quite a premature conclusion to come to the first week the game came out, considering people were discovering builds in Demon/DS/DS2 years after release. And yes there are less "skin" for weapons but the word variety is wrong for this, seeing as the unique move set from weapons found in the first 10 hour probably suppresses DS2.

Quick tip. did you know that a quick tap of R1 after a quick step launch a unique animation?

The problem is not that the variety between weapons is off. There is obviously enormous difference between any two given weapons. But the incredible low amount of weapons (15) in the game make it have less variety than DSII which had 223 weapons, 150+ spells and whatnot. Yes, weapons in Bloodborne are more versatile individually, but weapons form previous games aren't given enough credit. Two-handing is not the same as transforming, but the moveset does change dramatically when two handing some weapons. For example, the rifle spear in Bloodborne acts pretty much like a couple of spears in DSII. Complete with the rifle attack replacing a certain magic attack.

All in all, yeah, DSII had a lot of generic weapons, but it still had more unique ones than Bloodborne as far as I've seen.

I'm not saying subsequent playthroughs aren't viable, but I don't think I'll play this game for a year without having exhausted possible builds that I'm interested in using. I'm still playing DSII and to a lesser extend DS, and I still find some cool new builds to mess around with from time to time.

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kishinfoulux

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@zevvion said:

@kishinfoulux said:

So far I don't have much interest in the stuff I've found or unlocked in the shop. Part of that is because the Axe is too OP to give up and has a nice moveset. I want to mess with the Threaded Cane, but I've heard some awful things about how weak it is and, while great for trash mobs, does jack shit on bosses. Might be worth upgrading on just for trash maybe. No interest in any of the Saw stuff (blade and spear), or the Rifle Spear. I wanna check out Ludwig, once I unlock it, but beyond that there isn't much.

For what it's worth, I have beaten 5 bosses with the Threaded Cane and had no problem doing so. It does do very little damage, but I am using visceral attacks almost exclusively, and it doesn't seem like I'm at a disadvantage using it. I like using the Threaded Cane most right now.

Yeah I have to get better at doing those, especially on bosses. If the Ludwig doesn't pan out I may get one and upgrade it just for crowd control scenarios as a secondary.

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There are actually some pretty different areas