Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point? (Regarding the WiiU)

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MikkaQ

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#51  Edited By MikkaQ

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli: I think said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.

Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'

The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.

That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.

Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.

If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.

Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)

But isn't stuff like Brad's comment exactly the kind of respond you'd want, if you'd phrase your question like I did. Because in the end, there's two kind of people. Those who adhere to standards, and those who set their own.

Facts are so boring. Humanity is where it's at.

That's right. Fuck the man! You're all just sheeple for adhering to video standards. What are you going to start encoding all your music the same way, too?

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Seppli

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#52  Edited By Seppli

@MikkaQ said:

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli: I think said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.

Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'

The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.

That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.

Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.

If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.

Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)

But isn't stuff like Brad's comment exactly the kind of respond you'd want, if you'd phrase your question like I did. Because in the end, there's two kind of people. Those who adhere to standards, and those who set their own.

Facts are so boring. Humanity is where it's at.

That's right. Fuck the man! You're all just sheeple for adhering to video standards. What are you going to start encoding all your music the same way, too?

Sarcasm is the last bastion of ignorance.

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namesonkel

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#53  Edited By namesonkel

What's sad is how many games on the current gen consoles are sub 720p. Just because they can't manage to be as pretty as they want to without scaling down the resolution. Resolution is to me the thing that comes before everything else in graphics. But hey, it must be hard to manage making better looking games this far into a generation of consoles.

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MikkaQ

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#54  Edited By MikkaQ

@Seppli said:

@MikkaQ said:

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Seppli: I think said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.

Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'

The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.

That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.

Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.

If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.

Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)

But isn't stuff like Brad's comment exactly the kind of respond you'd want, if you'd phrase your question like I did. Because in the end, there's two kind of people. Those who adhere to standards, and those who set their own.

Facts are so boring. Humanity is where it's at.

That's right. Fuck the man! You're all just sheeple for adhering to video standards. What are you going to start encoding all your music the same way, too?

Sarcasm is the last bastion of ignorance.

I'm ignorant because I like to keep my job simpler by having two basic ways to format everything in?

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Seppli

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#55  Edited By Seppli

Wii U is HD, because it does 720p, which is technically HD.

I say it's not.

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deactivated-5c7ea8553cb72

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1440 is SD at this point, right?

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TruthTellah

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#57  Edited By TruthTellah

@Seppli said:

@MikkaQ said:

That's right. Fuck the man! You're all just sheeple for adhering to video standards. What are you going to start encoding all your music the same way, too?

Sarcasm is the last bastion of ignorance.

Chill, Seppli. Mikka was clearly just making a joke. You get cheeky sometimes, too. Mikka's just pointing out how silly it is to make some big statement on people's views of the world through the prism of video resolution standards. Let's be considerate of one another and get back on topic. :)

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TruthTellah

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#58  Edited By TruthTellah

@Seppli said:

Wii U is HD, because it does 720p, which is technically HD.

I say it's not.

So, now the topic is that you want general video standards for what constitutes "HD" to be changed to only include 1080p or higher?

It sounded to me more like you were just interested in discussing whether people feel satisfied with 720p in an age where 1080p is on the rise in gaming, but if you want to discuss industry standards for what constitutes the term "HD", I suppose that's something we can turn to. It just seems a bit off the original topic of people's personal preferences when it comes to game resolutions today.

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Djnardu

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#59  Edited By Djnardu

Im playing games at 2560x1440. Even 1080p looks blurry to me now.

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triple07

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#60  Edited By triple07

I don't give a fuck about that. Sure 1080p looks nicer but as long as it looks nice I don't care what resolution its at.

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captain_clayman

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#61  Edited By captain_clayman

720p is technically HD, but "High definition" is all relative. It's better than 480i that's for damn sure, but 1080p is the HD standard as far as I'm concerned. At this point in time, buying a 720p TV isn't cheaper than going 1080p, so it's not even economically relevant.

The only things keeping 720p relevant are outdated consoles, and unfortunately, the Wii U's pixel-pushing abilities will be painfully outmatched by Sony and Microsoft's next hardware lineup. This is the exact same thing that happened with the Wii; third parties aren't willing to have three-tiered games, PC on high end, Sony/MS middle, Nintendo low. As we've seen before, most developers can't be bothered to make their games scale to PC and PS360, so barely anyone gave the Wii the time of day. I fear the Wii U will suffer from a huge lack of third party support just like the Wii did because of this problem.

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GS_Dan

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#62  Edited By GS_Dan

720p is going to look like arse in 7 years.

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ajamafalous

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#63  Edited By ajamafalous

1080p at 60fps. Nothing less is acceptable.

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devilzrule27

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#64  Edited By devilzrule27

I consider 720 HD because my TV is only 32" and the human eye can't tell the fucking difference at that size unless I'm sitting a foot away from the screen. Perhaps one day when I have a million inch screen I'll care about the difference.

And for the record my little 32" outputs 1080p but obviously most things like TV shows and games are run at 720.

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Dixavd

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#65  Edited By Dixavd

I think anyone who thinks the WiiU can't handle 1080p are being immensely stupid (people said the PS3 wouldn't be able to handle native 720p when it came out and developers - even Nintendo trying this for the first time - are getting native 720p on the WiiU on launch).

There are a lot of problems you can slam the WiiU for - but saying it can't handle 1080p is ridiculous. (This isn't aimed at anyone in particular on here, just a damn load of comments on other sites have been saying it and this thread reminded me of it).

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NaDannMaGoGo

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#66  Edited By NaDannMaGoGo

@VisariLoyalist said:

I'm of the belief that 1080p at 60fps is what we should expect from our products, film or video game. Resolution should be high enough to never break the illusion that the thing you see on the screen is actually composed of real objects rather than pixels, if you're dealing with a large screen or a close up one than 1080p is essential and even then I hope we can someday get 4k. 60fps is the limit of human perception of motion which means solid 60fps further increases immersion and realism. Until entertainment products reach this level I will be searching for the company who can finally provide it.

That is false, you're eyes aren't some manufactured piece of hardware which has a precise technical limitation like that. It's much more complex. But instead of paraphrasing it I suggest reading this: http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm .

I do agree with your sentiment though, the more the better. If I could have a 200k resolution and 10 billion fps, awesome, I'd gladly take it. It really just is a technical limitation. Of course at that point you'd not get any benefits anymore, but it definitely wouldn't hurt either.

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Dixavd

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#67  Edited By Dixavd

@NaDannMaGoGo said:

@VisariLoyalist said:

I'm of the belief that 1080p at 60fps is what we should expect from our products, film or video game. Resolution should be high enough to never break the illusion that the thing you see on the screen is actually composed of real objects rather than pixels, if you're dealing with a large screen or a close up one than 1080p is essential and even then I hope we can someday get 4k. 60fps is the limit of human perception of motion which means solid 60fps further increases immersion and realism. Until entertainment products reach this level I will be searching for the company who can finally provide it.

That is false, you're eyes aren't some manufactured piece of hardware which has a precise technical limitation like that. It's much more complex. But instead of paraphrasing it I suggest reading this: http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm .

I do agree with your sentiment though, the more the better. If I could have a 200k resolution and 10 billion fps, awesome, I'd gladly take it. It really just is a technical limitation. Of course at that point you'd not get any benefits anymore, but it definitely wouldn't hurt either.

I find the "X fps is the limit of human perception of motion" baffling - I sort of understood it when people said it for 24 fps (since the error there is that they simply mixed it up with the fact that approximately 24 fps is the point at which you can trick someone into believe it is moving rather than just a succession of images) but it keeps being brought up but at a higher number every-so-often without any rhyme or reason.

Also as for you think about 200k resolution and 10 billion fps; I remember hearing that there is a point (Which the most high-tech stupidly-expensive screens have reached) where it causes harm to people (causing headaches) due to a lack of understanding of the mind of what is going on.

Here is the video which taught me that (it's from a very good Youtube Channel called VSauce which usually has sources in their descriptions but I think due to this being a fairly early video from them it isn't there - or it was deleted/edited at some point). Anyway, jump to around the 3:15 marker for them to talk about it. But he does say that if they put in techniques for putting blur in then it shouldn't matter so I guess eventually a stupidly high fps screen might not cause any harm.

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laserbolts

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#68  Edited By laserbolts

720 is definetly HD. You can get better HD but it is HD.

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DoctorWelch

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#69  Edited By DoctorWelch

Anything below 1080p looks like trash.

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MAGZine

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#70  Edited By MAGZine

@Seppli: stop trying to defend your awfully worded question. You asked a question, people answered your question.

Also, resolution is the dumbest thing ever to base the definition of HD on, really. That's why it's set to some very specific resolutions, namely 720p and 1080p. I can render some shitty graphics in 1080p, but by your subjective definition (ie, if I find it to be visually appealing), even if something is rendered in 1080p, it can still be non-HD.

It's non-sensical.

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jmood88

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#71  Edited By jmood88

@TheNose14 said:

And the fact that Wii U can only render 720 is a god damn shame.

Yeah, I had no idea that it could only do 720p. That is ridiculous.

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SirPsychoSexy

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#72  Edited By SirPsychoSexy

I don't know what the hell nintendo is thinking with the wii u, it just launched and is almost out of date.

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#73  Edited By AlexW00d

@jmood88 said:

@TheNose14 said:

And the fact that Wii U can only render 720 is a god damn shame.

Yeah, I had no idea that it could only do 720p. That is ridiculous.

It's also not true. Toki Tori 2 is rendered at 1080p natively according to the developers.

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Do_The_Manta_Ray

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#74  Edited By Do_The_Manta_Ray

So the question is, how do YOU define true HD? 1080p, personally, nothing less; but sod it, that's just my opinion and there's really no right and wrong here as it originated as a marketing term, anyway. And really, when it comes down to someone's personal standards for visual fidelity in video-games, who are we to say that they're wrong? To each their own.

Wait, wait, I take it all back, let me try again: I'm right and you fuckers better recognize and treasure that single indisputable fact as if it was the single jug of water you'd taste after a week in the desert sun, as key to your continued existence as the oxygen which you waste each day with those rancid, pathetic routines that you like to bestow with such hyperbolic terms as "lives", or Imma' get angry, and you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

Don't take any of the above seriously in any way, I'm just shocked at my own agreeability.

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xyzygy

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#75  Edited By xyzygy

720p still makes my games look crisp and far from an SD tv, so yes it's HD.

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#76  Edited By Raven10

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Seppli: I know that the current consoles only upscale 720p games to 1080p but I could have sworn I heard that the Wii U was going to run native 1080p games. I guess I misheard, oh well just gotta wait for the real next gen to have 1080p games become a standard.

Both the PS3 and X360 can run games in native 1080p. It is just incredibly rare for one to do so. 95% of games are upscaled but the occasional 2D Downloadable game runs at native 1080p and many HD Collections run at that as well. The question really becomes, is 1080p more important than a bevvy of special effects? It's not that current gen systems can't run games at 1080p and 60 fps. It's just that to reach that point you have to sacrifice most other graphical features you'd find in modern day games. You have to ask yourself if, for example, God of War 2 HD, which runs in 1080p at 60 fps, looks better than God of War 3, which runs in 720p at about 40 fps. Personally I prefer the look of 3 to that of 2 and I think most people agree. Next generation we may see games rendered in 1080p or we might see games continue to run in 720p but add a ton of other new graphical bells and whistles. It just depends where you want to place your rendering power.

And I would be shocked if the Wii U is unable to render a game in native 1080p. Just because they haven't yet doesn't mean it can't. Also people forget that in many games the system has to render information on the tablet screen as well. So even though the Wii U is probably more powerful than the other current gen systems, that extra power almost certainly goes to rendering the image on the tablet screen. If that screen were to just display a map or some other static 2D image I think it would be possible to run a game in native 1080p, but at that point you aren't really using the system how it is meant to be used.

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George_Hukas

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#77  Edited By George_Hukas

Let the console gamers have their shitty, meaningless acronym.

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Jimbo

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#78  Edited By Jimbo

I consider 720p to be 720p. Deciding that 'High' starts at x instead of y is completely arbitrary, short-sighted and eventually meaningless. 'High' compared to what? It's a relative term and once everybody has 720 then it is no longer 'High' definition and is merely standard definition again, because that's what the word 'standard' means. Like next gen consoles eventually become current gen consoles because that's what those words mean. Words!

If it's being considered that 'High Definition' is an exactly defined technical term (it's marketing bullshit), which 720 happens to fall under, then you need to come up with a better term because it's stupid. There's already a better term for referring to 720p and it's '720p'. Apparently the next thing is Ultra-High definition. Brilliant, what's after that? Super Ultra-High Definition? Super Mega Ultra-High? How about just refer to it by what it actually is.

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colourful_hippie

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#79  Edited By colourful_hippie

@Raven10: What I mean to say is that native 1080 isn't really much of a standard. Yeah I know those consoles can run games at that if they were built for it. MGS4 and Dyad are such examples.

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MooseyMcMan

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#80  Edited By MooseyMcMan

So long as content is still being put out at 480i (regular-ass cable), 720P is HD.

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jkz

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#81  Edited By jkz

Holy shit, that's a pretty even split down the middle, right there

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kindgineer

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#82  Edited By kindgineer

1080p. I'm not going to say that 720p isn't "HD," but true high-definition would be the highest of them all. (That is available affordably)

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korwin

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#83  Edited By korwin

I didn't consider it to be a true HD resolution when the 360 came out (at least for games), my PC was already running stuff at a higher resolution at that point.

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big_jon

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#84  Edited By big_jon

Yeah, I do.

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rachelepithet

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#85  Edited By rachelepithet

1080i is the best bet. Since most games struggle to stay at 30 frames/second, choosing 1080i let's your old ass 2005-2006 game console output a much more capable 1920x540 resolution odd and even, which your TV the uses its much newer post processing to combine into an actual 1920x1080 picture, and then motion smooths those thirty 1920x1080 frames into 60 by doubling. That way your console truly is rendering the game at 1080, just needs your TV to comb the odds and evens together as one. With 720p, the console needs to do all 60 frames on its own, and the end result will be lower res than 1080 no matter what, but even worse, might render the actual game at a jagged-edge crazy 480 DVD quality, with its own post processing up scanning to 720.

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AndrewB

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#86  Edited By AndrewB

By definition, yes. However, I sure would like the next generation of consoles from Microsoft and Sony to be strictly enforced at 1080p. Was really hoping the WIi U would at least be "that next-gen console with slightly better than current-gen tech that could pump out at least existing games at the higher resolution." Of course, Nintendo's development studios will be the only ones who'll be able to combine relaxed technical graphics with good art assets to make their games look beautiful and play at 1080p.

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TJUK

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#87  Edited By TJUK

720p is HD but with a decent frame rate to boot.

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Doomduck

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#88  Edited By Doomduck

I feel like this is more a question of perception rather than semantics, so i'm going to say no. Even though it obviously technically is "High-Definition".

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Gruff182

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#89  Edited By Gruff182

In the back of my head, I never even consider or pay any attention to the HD capabilities of consoles. 720 or 1080 doesn't make a difference to me if the textures aren't high-res, or the lack of AA or AF.

Whats the point of outputting a 720p image if the systems lack of RAM or GPU/CPU can't render high resolution assets.

Basically the PC has spoiled me and I can't wait for the next gen consoles. Thats when we'll see real HD on consoles.

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benjo_t

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#90  Edited By benjo_t

The most prominent example of what OP is saying, for me, is the difference between running Dark Souls on PS3 in 720p and running it natively with the rendering unlocked on PC. One is crisp and high-definition, the other really isn't. So much texture and model detail becomes apparent on the PC version which just can't be made out on the console due to its muddy 720p rendering. (Still a perfectly fine place to play the game, however.)