The Giant Bomb GOTY podcasts complain thread.

@Sless: I know what you mean. I can't wait till the actually Game of the Year stuff starts to kick off. Cutthroat.

@Pr1mus said:

@Terramagi said:

@Phatmac said:

It seems that TWD will win GOTY since they have talked about it the most.

I wanna see Jeff stonewall that shit.

Like, as somebody who actually liked TWD, I wanna see that fucking train get stopped in its fucking tracks.

We can all agree that any chance TWD has to win this is based entirely on its story and writing and nothing else right?

After hearing them find so many issues with the story i don't know how they could find a way to justify making it GOTY. Seriously, they tore episode 5 apart (save for the ending of course), raised many issues about how things play out in episode 2, kinda didn't care all that much about many of the things that happens in episode 4... the problems they have with the story are starting to pile on.

A lot of the issues they had came from them not remembering things like Clem constantly talking on her walkie talkie and Lee even telling her to do it to make her feel better. The player simply didn't know that she was actually talking to the stranger and not pretend talking with her parents.

The lightning fence was always assumed to be turned on by the brothers. The fact that they are cannibals doesn't change that. Remember that the plan was to kill almost everyone because they didn't need that many people to eat? The brothers talk about that in the barn right before Lee has the option to kill one of them.

The stealing of the boat not being in Vernon's character doesn't hold water when you consider all the ways he could be pissed at you when talking about taking Clem. You can also tell him off. Even when he does take the stuff Lee can defend him and say something alone the lines of, "They were desperate and we would have done the same thing."

I'm somewhat split on the whole spoiler thing: I think that there should be a reasonable limit placed on when talks of important story elements are done. If Mass Effect 3 was released and the crew all finished the game within the first two weeks, that's too soon to be talking about it. Not every one will have had ample free time to play it, and there are also things like regional release dates that may cause others to not even be able to play a game within that time frame.

With that being said, people are a little overly sensitive about spoilers, but I understand where they're coming from. I don't think The Walking Dead would've had nearly the same amount of emotional impact on me had I known what was to come before actually playing through the game myself. However, GOTY stuff is held to a different standard and I think they've said before that there is no practical way for someone to argue for or against a particular title without getting into specifics and spoiler territory. So if you're listening to GOTY stuff and upset about getting spoiled on something, the fault lies with no one but yourself.

As for the Clem stuff, I kind of agree and disagree. My first reaction to Jeff's statement was also one of disbelief, but when I listened to his argument I saw merit in it as well. While playing through the game, Clem was my emotional anchor and I made sure to do things with her best interest in mind at all times, even if occasionally they were things she did not believe in (such as taking items from the car). However, Jeff's argument (if I remember correctly) is that they made it too obvious that Clem is the emotional centre and there were some inconsistencies with how she is portrayed. Looking back on it I actually like how that turned out regardless of whether it was meant to be or resulted as an accident: we have to remember that Clem is still a child, despite the fact that she's been forced to grow up very quickly in a messed up world. There will be times that she is smart and can understand things beyond her years, but there will also be times where she will seem naive and stupid. Definitely one of the best characters I've seen in a while, regardless of age, though in the realm of child characters she definitely ranks pretty high up there along with Nanako-chan.

@Phatmac said:

Since most of us will complain about certain picks made by the GB staff I feel that this thread should exist. So let us complain! I think that them removing Asura's Wrath and TWD from the best moments category dimply because there are too many moments is bullshit. I also think Lee should win the best character category over Vaas. So what are you unhappy with so far?

I haven't even played The Walking Dead, but choosing Vaas is for idiots.

He is definitely a great actor, but I think there is a much deeper argument to have there.

So far no Shadow Broker/Minerva's Den craziness, but I'm hopeful. Brad's idea of a filibusterer is disgusting and fun to listen too. :P

Oh yeah, this has already become the worst thread on the site. Nice going, folks.

@Milkman said:

Oh yeah, this has already become the worst thread on the site. Nice going, folks.

nah, I'm pretty sure the ones about anita were the worst threads on the site.

It's not so much a complaint about any of their decisions, but I'm kind of bummed that previous knowledge of 'Paper Planes' apparently really adds something to the intro to Far Cry 3. I hadn't heard the song before then.

@Animasta said:

@Milkman said:

Oh yeah, this has already become the worst thread on the site. Nice going, folks.

nah, I'm pretty sure the ones about anita were the worst threads on the site.

Let's say worst thread on the front page of the forums then.

@Phatmac said:

Since most of us will complain about certain picks made by the GB staff I feel that this thread should exist. So let us complain! I think that them removing Asura's Wrath and TWD from the best moments category dimply because there are too many moments is bullshit. I also think Lee should win the best character category over Vaas. So what are you unhappy with so far?

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

I was surprised to hear them diss clem like that. I think she was really well done.

Haven't heard the podcast yet but this is saddening to hear. TWD is my personal game of the year, I understand it not getting on their top 10's or something but completely robbing the game from a category and dissing the most well done child character in games in awhile just sounds infuriating to me. Nevertheless, I guess I'll have to check it out eventually.

I typically enjoy hearing dissenting opinions on things, but I straight up turned the podcast right off when Jeff said clementine was poorly written character and that TWD had bad facial animation.

I mean that's kinda the cool thing about subjectivity and all but god damn I would love to see the game Jeff was describing. Cause it sure as fuck was not the one I played.

Your opinion doesn't align with my own, and I'm not okay with that!

@Dauragon said:

I typically enjoy hearing dissenting opinions on things, but I straight up turned the podcast right off when Jeff said clementine was poorly written character and that TWD had bad facial animation.

I mean that's kinda the cool thing about subjectivity and all but god damn I would love to see the game Jeff was describing. Cause it sure as fuck was not the one I played.

I don't know, different strokes for different folks I think. I was gifted The Walking Dead recently and just got done with Episode 1 or whatever they call it. Unless the writing gets a TON better I can't understand how people get emotionally distraught by this game. Most of it seems pretty comical to me and the whole gameplay part of it is so bad. Not to mention that on my pretty powerful PC that runs Sleeping Dogs and other modern games fine on high settings, TWD stutters and freezes constantly and one time it completely locked up. Sure it's a game, but it's not a very good one. Then again I'm staunchly against Asuras Wrath receiving any awards apart from maybe flashy cinematics of the year and it seems so hypocritical of the staff to suddenly turn on their heels and praise everything in it that until now they so vehemently opposed in the past.

@Dauragon said:

I typically enjoy hearing dissenting opinions on things, but I straight up turned the podcast right off when Jeff said clementine was poorly written character and that TWD had bad facial animation.

I mean that's kinda the cool thing about subjectivity and all but god damn I would love to see the game Jeff was describing. Cause it sure as fuck was not the one I played.

I'm three episodes deep into The Walking Dead and while I'm immensely enjoying it, I have to agree that some of the animation is incredibly janky. I've had moments where actors seemingly don't animate when they should be (some zombies stuck in a frame of animation while others stumble around) and one hilarious case where Lee strode slowly to exit of the barn only to zip suddenly across the room, utterly destroying the tension of the moment. Sometimes the camera clips into the actors, too.

There are some moments where the facial animation shines and along with the art style it comes together to nail a scene, but there are plenty of moments where they don't seem to emote enough. It's still fantastic, the strength of the writing and the great voice work carries it through.

@Humanity: If you're still on episode one, you haven't really seen anything yet. Some pretty excruciating stuff happens once you dig a little further in, but this all depends on how desensitized you are to violence or the zombie scenario in general, I suppose. As for the gameplay being poor - are you a big fan of adventure gaming? This is kinda their deal, and The Walking Dead actually goes quite a way in evolving that genre beyond its usual staples. It's basic and straightforward, sure, but it's a game that operates purely in service of its story which if you aren't enjoying would go some way to explaining why you think it's so bad overall.

Has anyone here started the "why didn't they even talked about Journey for Best Debut"?

@Winternet said:

Has anyone here started the "why didn't they even talked about Journey for Best Debut"?

I think that's because they'd want Journey to stay as a stand-alone experience, as it most assuredly will anyway. Best Debut is the award for the best beginning to a franchise.

I don't get unhappy over other people's opinions.

@Dauragon said:

I typically enjoy hearing dissenting opinions on things, but I straight up turned the podcast right off when Jeff said clementine was poorly written character and that TWD had bad facial animation.

I mean that's kinda the cool thing about subjectivity and all but god damn I would love to see the game Jeff was describing. Cause it sure as fuck was not the one I played.

Personally, I loved TWD, but I agree on Jeff's points. I did get attached to Clemtine, of course, but that didn't stop me pretty much cringing my way through most parts where she spoke. I found her overall 'adult actor doing a kids voice' and, well, just a bit lame.

It's all opinions though, yeah?

@Yummylee said:

@Winternet said:

Has anyone here started the "why didn't they even talked about Journey for Best Debut"?

I think that's because they'd want Journey to stay as a stand-alone experience, as it most assuredly will anyway. Best Debut is the award for the best beginning to a franchise.

a) They clearly said that argument was not good enough to disqualify a game

b) Runners-up are Mark of the Ninja and Fez. Mark of the Ninja, sure, I could see a Mark of the Ninja 2 (although I don't think they will pursue it), but Fez? As a franchise? No way.

@benjo_t: There's also moments where the lip/face animation doesn't match the what is being said. Somebody will be screaming, and the facial animation will make it look as if they're just talking. Not a big deal, but I do agree there can be some jankiness. And I agree a bit about Jeff in terms of Clementine's animation. She kind of always has one expression that rarely changes. It's not so much a disposition as it is just a generic expression.

@Winternet said:

@Yummylee said:

@Winternet said:

Has anyone here started the "why didn't they even talked about Journey for Best Debut"?

I think that's because they'd want Journey to stay as a stand-alone experience, as it most assuredly will anyway. Best Debut is the award for the best beginning to a franchise.

a) They clearly said that argument was not good enough to disqualify a game

b) Runners-up are Mark of the Ninja and Fez. Mark of the Ninja, sure, I could see a Mark of the Ninja 2 (although I don't think they will pursue it), but Fez? As a franchise? No way.

Well I dunno then. That award seems a little flimsy since Best ''Debut'' would infer that there's going to be more of it and the concept of a Fez sequel just sounds weird. But yeah, it's a runner up, and they also omitted Journey so... let the rage begin?

@Humanity said:

I don't know, different strokes for different folks I think. I was gifted The Walking Dead recently and just got done with Episode 1 or whatever they call it. Unless the writing gets a TON better I can't understand how people get emotionally distraught by this game. Most of it seems pretty comical to me and the whole gameplay part of it is so bad. Not to mention that on my pretty powerful PC that runs Sleeping Dogs and other modern games fine on high settings, TWD stutters and freezes constantly and one time it completely locked up. Sure it's a game, but it's not a very good one. Then again I'm staunchly against Asuras Wrath receiving any awards apart from maybe flashy cinematics of the year and it seems so hypocritical of the staff to suddenly turn on their heels and praise everything in it that until now they so vehemently opposed in the past.

@bibamatt said:

Personally, I loved TWD, but I agree on Jeff's points. I did get attached to Clemtine, of course, but that didn't stop me pretty much cringing my way through most parts where she spoke. I found her overall 'adult actor doing a kids voice' and, well, just a bit lame.

It's all opinions though, yeah?

Oh yeah for sure on both points. Jeff is totally entitled to his opinions and everything and it is totally interesting from a purely "under the hood" perspective, which is pretty much the whole point of these deliberations being made public in the first place, right?

It's just that for some reason that one opinion really caused me to have one of those existential moments where I looked at how much more deliberation there was going to be and how much of my short life there is left and I just kind of went "yeah I'll just watch the videos."

@Yummylee said:

@Winternet said:

@Yummylee said:

@Winternet said:

Has anyone here started the "why didn't they even talked about Journey for Best Debut"?

I think that's because they'd want Journey to stay as a stand-alone experience, as it most assuredly will anyway. Best Debut is the award for the best beginning to a franchise.

a) They clearly said that argument was not good enough to disqualify a game

b) Runners-up are Mark of the Ninja and Fez. Mark of the Ninja, sure, I could see a Mark of the Ninja 2 (although I don't think they will pursue it), but Fez? As a franchise? No way.

Well I dunno then. That award seems a little flimsy since Best ''Debut'' would infer that there's going to be more of it and the concept of a Fez sequel just sounds weird. But yeah, it's a runner up, and they also omitted Journey so... let the rage begin?

The only "rage" coming out of me is for that Best Debut is a shitty category and should not exist. About 25% of Game of the Year gets nullified because of this category. Also, discussing debuts to something doesn't exist so far, makes no sense.

@Winternet: I guess it's just a way to give kudos to a game that's new and isn't yet another sequel. Best New IP might look a little suitable or... Best Game That Isn't a Sequel. Best Beginning to a Franchise? I evidently agree in any case that it's a strange award and that it can potentially nullify some of the anticipation about the GOTY debate. Even though it was pretty obvious to begin with, but it's now crystal clear that The Walking Dead is in the running for GOTY and any opposition will also have to now be a sequel of some sort.

EDIT: Of course the GOTY debate could still strictly be between sequels... Oh whatever, now I'm just putting too much thought into this than I planned.

I really don't understand why best debut came down to a game during something "different" and I have no idea how The Walking Dead won based on that criteria.

The podcasts aren't long enough!!

@Yummylee: Sure, yeah. When the time comes, technically, Journey can not be ahead of Fez and Mark of the Ninja in the overall Game of the Year category and that decision has already been made outside that discussion. That's what I don't like about this category as well.

Of course, they can also go "fuck logic" on it and none of these matters later on, but that would be kinda undermining their work.

@Dauragon: Oh yah definitely. I've been skipping through them because quite frankly some of these lesser categories seem like a waste of time to listen to. Hearing Brad mention how sitting at E3 and watching the topless scene from the Far Cry 3 presentation made him disgusted and he wanted nothing to do with the game just made me roll my eyes.

Patrick: "Stealth is shit"

No dude. it only means you're shit at it.

I just finished Spec Ops, and now I'm listening to some of the parts I skipped, so I now shall complain about some stuff Patrick said regarding Spec Ops.

Not really a complaint but I already feel the Brad-dominance vibe getting stronger and stronger.

In general he's my favorite Bomb-Duder but on these GOTY discussions... I dunno. He always appears to be the one having the last say or at least arguing the longest, disregarding the quality of his arguments. Meanwhile Vinny, Ryan and Patrick seem all to be a bit more compliant. So whenever they just barely cannot agree on something Brad's choice end up winning. And if it doesn't he'll mention his disagreement a couple more times.

Then again that attitude may cause some interesting discussions later down the line and it isn't too bad so far. Love these bombcasts!

@Terramagi said:

Really, the only way they could've made you care more about Clementine was if she had a dead puppy.

Which actually is a character.

I would support a dead puppy as a main character in the next season of TWD.

I cant believe they chose PacMan over MeatBoy for best music. Theyre out of their minds. I understand they like dubstep but seriously....

Wait... am i a little late on this one?

@NaDannMaGoGo said:

Not really a complaint but I already feel the Brad-dominance vibe getting stronger and stronger.

In general he's my favorite Bomb-Duder but on these GOTY discussions... I dunno. He always appears to be the one having the last say or at least arguing the longest, disregarding the quality of his arguments. Meanwhile Vinny, Ryan and Patrick seem all to be a bit more compliant. So whenever they just barely cannot agree on something Brad's choice end up winning. And if it doesn't he'll mention his disagreement a couple more times.

Then again that attitude may cause some interesting discussions later down the line and it isn't too bad so far. Love these bombcasts!

Can you name any specific examples of this happening?

I'll be upset if The Walking Dead is GOTY, that game is boring. But I didn't like the TV show either. Jeff! You're my only hope!

Not too much to complain about thusfar, except Brad continually calling The Walking Dead busted on consoles...

Played it on a PS3 and didn't notice too many issues other than a stutter in between decisions every once in a while... far from "Busted"

@OneKillWonder_ said:

The story directly impacts the potential that Vaas had as a character, so they go hand-in-hand here. There's not really much to Vaas as a character that we get to see, just some damn good and convincing acting.

Doesn't it speak volumes that Vaas was able to shine in a shallow story? How many characters flourish with the support of a mediocre story?

And what exactly about Vaas's character did you still want to see? We were given as much reasonable history as the people on the island knew, his motives, and had an understanding of his involvement with the pirates near the end of his arc. So, what's missing? Just "more"?

Vaas made more people talk about him with 10 minutes of face time than Jack could in 40 hours. Jack didn't deserve discussion in the same running as Vaas.

@TurboMan said:

Not too much to complain about thusfar, except Brad continually calling The Walking Dead busted on consoles...

Played it on a PS3 and didn't notice too many issues other than a stutter in between decisions every once in a while... far from "Busted"

I played on PS3 as well. Only had a few frame rate hitches, a few snags while loading. It's not busted.

Patrick.

@JasonR86 said:

@Master_Funk said:

Patrick calling twisted metal 'dogshit' is weird when he thought it was alright during the quick look and TNT. Getting ready for more Patrick moments to make me crazy.

He really does have this all or nothing tendency when talking about the quality of games/movies/etc doesn't he?

I'm usually on the Patrick defense force, but yeah, he's been a little too harsh on disc-based games lately. The Darksiders II discussion from a few months ago was the turning point for me. I was disappointed, too, but Jeff (of all people) had to defend that game from Patrick's vitriol.

What exactly is Jeff's issue with Binary Domain?

@ArtisanBreads said:

I don't get the love for Vaas. It is "best character" not "best acting". The acting was good but there is literally nothing to the character.

I don't think the acting is all that great either.

the "definition of insanity" scene felt incredibly cheesy to me. I said it before but I'll say it again, I wish we had seen more of Buck. He was a much better villain.

I can't wait for all the Nintendo fan butthurt

@ThePickle said:

What exactly is Jeff's issue with Binary Domain?

He didn't think the gameplay was that good but better then he expected. He thinks the big story twist that Patrick and Vinny were talking about (humans and robots etc. etc.) was silly once Patrick finally talked about it in the first GOTY podcast. Brad thought it was silly too.

@TurboMan said:

Not too much to complain about thusfar, except Brad continually calling The Walking Dead busted on consoles...

Played it on a PS3 and didn't notice too many issues other than a stutter in between decisions every once in a while... far from "Busted"

My 360 version had numerous hitches and awful frame rate which made me have a terrible time with it. I still love it but for some people the console version is busted for me at least.

I think Halo 4 should have been in the best looking games list. I'd prefer it over Fez for sure.

A thread to complain about other peoples opinions, awesome.

Where the hell was Max Payne 3 for use of best licensed soundtrack? I'm not saying it definitely should have won, but it deserved a mention.

I have not listened to the Day 3 podcast yet. This is more a reflection of GOTY as a whole.

A sizable amount of the community will believe the Bombcrew as an editorial whole is above criticism, but I think the number of pointless or obvious categories so far this year is disappointing. It is far more interesting to hear discussion and occasional heated argument than a collective of people evaluating a single relatively pointless but impressive moment. The stakes are not just low, they are lower the bar so far lower with some of these categories. This has moved from a well intentioned move away a few years ago from traditional console categories to a pigeonholing awards and appreciation in a way that makes it less enjoyable to read, listen to, and to take recommendations from. While I did not play Kid Icarus, I can now feel sympathy with those that felt that game got dismissed too quickly. My wife and I call it the "shitshow" effect. (We remember around the time of the first Live Live Show Alex or Jeff using the word "shitshow" to describe a game or movie in a GB or Screened podcast or video. Then everyone on the forum began using it and it being used on terrible quicklooks by others.) Once a game is "shitshowed" like Binary Domain or Kid Icarus was, it's impossible convince the small group otherwise. I think it is admirable that some did try Binary Domain again.

I think the Day 1 podcast and write up did a bad insufficient job of explaining why the Hot Line Miami soundtrack was good, especially since no one really steps up as advocates for the other titles. I thought the Max Payne 3 soundtrack was amazing and similarly fit the mood of the game, as did Journey towards the end. Honestly it felt like what do you want to listen to in the car above all else and that felt so disappointing.

I hope the next two days have a noticeable improvement. I have enjoyed the GOTY podcasts less than in recent years or compared to a regular weekly episode. I think the fake TV shows are great but ultimately they are just a thing that is released at the same time as the videos wrap ups and podcasts. I commend the work put into them.

I played Frog Fractions. It's cute, and funny. But there is some serious magpie (Oh, look at this shiny) groupthink at GB going on about it, along with Jaavik / From Ashes, and the HLM soundtrack. These aren't my awards, but this simply isn't as revelatory as Brad makes it out to be. My eyes didn't roll back, time did not stop, and I did not begin to smell colors.

At some point, will GB have categories like best credits, best QTE, best single player headshot, or worst Cards Against Humanity card? Will it matter to the community as long as a podcast comes out? What is the point then? I can't say I value these "extra" awards more than what IGN or Gametrailers or Destructoid announces. Quite the opposite and that is disappointing.

While GOTY should not be combative or "real criticism", I think the transparency the podcast and constant video production throughout the year provides gives GB an opportunity to distinguish itself. The mechanics of these categories and occasional lack of advocates has led to a disappointing reception in this user so far. It is less a sausage making podcast and more a sausage fest of celebrating the same things that were trumpeted all year. GB should reconsider the flexibility of allowing new categories.

At some point, it is more interesting to hear opinions: is FTL or Hot Line Miami a better game? Forza or Most Wanted? Can't we manufacture some categories that way? Best download-only PC game? Best Driving game? I hope we see it and we can really dig in. Throwing in some thoughts like game theory, reward schedule, and synesthesia could benefit these GOTY discussions over "sick dubstep beats".

Clearly the game I think should have won that one category was forgot. That's the only explanation as to why it didn't win the category I am complaining about. Either that or they just didn't get it because they are so dang stupid.