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Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

I was about to start part two of 'The Good, the Bad, and the Free' when I noticed that something Cyberpunk came up. Since a lot of the talk out of E3 was positive on the game, I just had to take a gander. Next thing you know, CD Projekt Red just dropped the E3 demo right into our laps for our viewing pleasure. After watching the whole thing, I decided to pour out some small quick thoughts I had while watching. Each thought is in bold with my thoughts below. And it should go without saying that the thoughts I have on the game could be changed because of changes made to the game.

1. It's beautiful

The absolute thing this game nails is the dystopian hyper capitalist punk world. The scale of the city, the vibrant colors mixed with the dirty undertones of the streets, the people that inhabit this world, and so much more plays to this world so well.

2. It's immersive and deep

The game also does a great job at really putting you into this world and showing just how much detail has gone into the game. Whether it be special hospital treatment based on how rich you are, getting a look at the different groups of people inhabiting this world, or skills that actually matter in the world like street cred. The game doesn't just allow you to play as a character in this world; it makes you that character in this world.

3. Missions and how you tackle them have weight to them

Every action you took actually felt important. While driving towards the next mission, some of the enemies from the previous one tried to do a drive-by. When teaming up with the mili-tech company, they offered you money so you can take the upcoming mission in a peaceful manner, only to have that end in a betrayal by mili-tech when the money was rigged. Cyberpunk missions feel like something that can have very different outcomes depending on how you tackle them, and I see that as a big potential for high replayability.

4.Gun gameplay didn't look great

I get that there are aspects of this game that are new for CD Projekt Red, but the guns didn't wow me. I saw some cool features to the guns like a ricochet ability, but the shooting itself seems weightless. This one is a little hard to explain, so the best I can say is look at the gameplay yourself. Besides that, I think combat overall looks solid. It seems to offer a wealth of options as to how you want to dispatch enemies and offers some extra movesets like wall running and double jumps.

5. The game seems to have a lot going on, but it never felt overwhelming

The game seems like it would be overwhelming because of all of its systems, but it never felt overwhelming. All of its systems and mechanics felt streamlined in a way that made sense to me and was relatively easy to follow. I don't think this game will be as easy to jump into as Peggle, but I also don't think it will be insanely difficult either.

6. Something didn't feel quiteright

The game looks impressive. Almost too impressive. This last part is more of a concern than a complaint, but I think this demo got the Ubisoft treatment. Of course they did say multiple times that the gameplay isn't a representation of the final product, but I feel that this gameplay is flying a little too close to the sun. I really hope I am proven wrong here, but only the final product will tell.

I have more thoughts on the game, but I felt that I should just keep this short and stick to the main points. I have little complaints to what I have seen, and it overall looks very impressive. I'm not really any more or less excited for the game mainly because I know it still is going to be a good amount of time before this game releases, but I think that people coming out of E3 saying this is THE game of the show this year are not wrong. Cyberpunk 2077 has a lot of promise, let's just hope the game lives up to it.

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#1 Posted by HellBrendy (1310 posts) -

It's a video made to show off a game getting alot of press already. With no release date yet it's so far off some of what was shown will have been removed or changed into something different and it's a lot of setpieces and a narrator telling you what you are watching because they don't think you'll understand it by yourself. Also, narrating is an asy way to throw out some buzzwords and oy does hehave them.

All the red lamps are blinking, this is't how it will be when released and don't believe the hype.

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#2 Posted by NTM (11826 posts) -

The thing that makes me think it's not too far off is its imperfections (animations of guys dying wasn't great), and just some other visual oddities. That said, the detail in every nook and cranny considering it's possible size as well as the fact they're trying to make it have no loading is what might give one pause. I mean, it could take hours upon hours just looking at everything and taking in the atmosphere. I'm hoping they pull it off, where this may not be the final product, but it'll be darn near-equally impressive.

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#3 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@hellbrendy: I know that this isn't a clip of 1.0 gameplay, which is why I said in the title the gameplay demo and not the game. I actually didn't pay much attention to the narrator as for I was trying to soak in everything else. I get that the narrator is there to give context as to what you are doing, but I never felt that the narrator made things any more or less confusing for me.

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#4 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@ntm: I agree that some aspects of the game felt finished, but I still believe there are many that still need work. As for the world, I will be impressed if they manage it on current console hardware without major hitches (they did say it is coming for current gen), and this is one of the many things that felt off to me. I think the world and the things they are saying about it (no load times, etc.) is a big aspect to my number 6 point. I hope they prove me wrong, but I just don't see them cramming all of that into current gen without some big downgrades.

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#5 Edited by NTM (11826 posts) -

@blackredgaming: I haven't finished it. I'm only on the part where she meets up with the woman and the player character gets knocked down. From what I heard, CD Project Red said that game can already be gone through from start to finish, that said, what they show in the video still seems a lot like a concept more than final. It's only because it seems so scripted. I kind of agree about how it'll work on current-gen systems. Visually it doesn't really say next-gen to me; it is really good looking, but it's really the fact it's so detailed with characters that do their own thing which is why it's hard to believe it'd be on current-gen as it looks. That said, although I am not 100 percent confident it'll be totally like this, I want to say that we can only get more advanced in the way games are and the way developers want to strive to make their games bigger, better and just more immersive. So in this case, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, it isn't final as the video clearly says, but I hope it's nearly as impressive if not as impressive. It's possible that it'll be a cross-gen thing.

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#6 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@ntm: I agree that the game doesn't look next-gen. The character models looked okay and the textures overall seemed very current. I also agree that the gameplay is very scripted. But I don't think that hinders the gameplay that bad because all gameplay demos are in some way scripted. It does seem like this demo is more scripted than others (I hope that drive-by comes naturally but I'm not holding my breath), but I still feel that was expected. Honestly, I think that what system is on is going to be the deal breaker. If it really is going to come out on current gen then I don't see the game improving all that much and it may even downgrade because of hardware restrictions. But if it releases on next gen (and only next gen) then I see the game having the possibility to reach its full potential.

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#7 Edited by Rahf (499 posts) -

One good thing about scripted gameplay sections is the amount of control it offers. The developer can more easily make scenarios and sections play well in front of the audience (i.e. look at the stage, not the players in the wings.) The Witcher series played quite similarly, with plenty of small and quick gameplay decisions being made inbetween the more meaty player-driven choices and dialogue scenes. It's worth noting that plenty of cutscenes seemed to move at a pace too.

Perhaps the weak gunplay suffers from a similar thing that Fallout 3 and even Borderlands did: the internal numbers take precedent over hit detection and feedback?

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#8 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@rahf: You're right: the scripted gameplay does a good job at making sure you see what they want you to see and help explain the game better while not making any embarrassing moments. Sadly, I think that whether or not scripting gameplay is always at a loss. Scripting it increases suspicion as to how the gameplay will actually be while not scripting it means the developers can't tune the demo to how they want it. As for the weak gunplay, I am sure you are right in your prediction. I can't tell you why I don't like it technically, but I can say the gunplay feels like you pointing a laser at someone and saying 'pew pew' while numbers fly off of them instead of you shooting someone.

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#9 Posted by SnakeEater321 (122 posts) -

The narrated gameplay video and obvious quest indicators felt pretty condescending..I guess that's the trend? Making games for people that don't play games often and need every single thing explained to them.

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#10 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@snakeeater321: I don't think that the case. Cyberpunk has a lot going on, and I think that was there to give context as to everything that can be done in this world. I also think scripted gameplay is there to allow the developers to show exactly what they want to show people; whether that be the features of gameplay, the mission structure, or other things.

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#11 Posted by GenericBrotagonist (448 posts) -

Really wasn't a fan of the dialogue at all. Everyone sounded like they were trying way too hard to be cool and edgy.

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#12 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@genericbrotagonist: I thought the voice acting itself was really good but some of the dialogue was cheesy.

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#13 Posted by mattchops (339 posts) -

I can't wait to play it

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#14 Posted by BaneFireLord (3568 posts) -

@genericbrotagonist: Yeah, the tone felt a little bit tryhard, which is probably what I'm most worried about. I thought Witcher 3 did a fantastic job of nailing the tone and attitude of its world but this slice of Cyberpunk was verging on self-parody a few times. Which I suppose is kind of true to the genre, but I'm still wary.

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#15 Posted by The_Ruiner (1775 posts) -

Great atmosphere. Great lighting and Art direction.

I have two concerns

  1. The choices in the demo mission seemed to add up to a zero sum. They chose to contact the Corp. Agent. They got the cred chip. They talked there way in, but everything went to shit and it led to them killing everyone and an underwhelming boss fight. But if they had just gone loud and fought their way in, they would have had to kill everyone and had a mediocre boss fight anyway. I don't see where the choice really mattered all that much.
  2. I want to like this game so much, but so much of it scream Deus Ex: Human Revolution. This narrated video demo even seems remarkably like the ones they released leading up to Human Revolution. I didn't care for that game, so it makes me a little nervous.
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#16 Posted by The_Ruiner (1775 posts) -

@genericbrotagonist: I thought the voice acting itself was really good but some of the dialogue was cheesy.

The guy who had to drop one Spanish word into every sentence felt really cheesy to me. I live in a latinX neighborhood. Most of my best friends are latinX. They don't really do that. The code shifting usually happens on a per sentence basis or at the very least groups of words. Felt awkward.

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#17 Edited by Rahf (499 posts) -

There are a few dissenting voices toward the narration. I'll say this: the voiceover they hired either tried to sound hard and a bit edgy, or was directed to sound that way. It didn't hit the mark for me, but wasn't a complete miss either. Personally, I definitely needed the content of his writing. The slice of gameplay they served would've been a confusing conundrum otherwise.

Don't forget: most people that play games are not even remotely as interested as we are.

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#18 Posted by Justin258 (15656 posts) -

I thought it looked pretty cool and I'll probably wind up buying it when it comes out, or very close to release date.

However, watching this video was a bit of a comedown. Not a letdown, I don't mean that I was disappointed; rather, this video reminded me that oh right, this is a modern big-budget videogame. One that looks great, that's taking full advantage of the talent and budget behind it, but at the end of day I guess I'm not really expecting this game to revolutionize gaming. Just to be a great example of what modern showcase titles can be.

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#19 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@the_ruiner: I'm sure if you didn't talk to mili-tech you would get the option to just pay with your own money, and that would probably not start a fight. But the thing I was talking about with missions having weight are the aftermath. What is the aftermath with your relationship with mili-tech or the dudes who are trying to be full robot?

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#20 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@the_ruiner: I agree that the dialogue isn't great. I was mainly talking about the execution being good. They didn't sound like robots when talking to each other.

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#21 Posted by BlackRedGaming (273 posts) -

@justin258: You know what? I think this about sums up my thoughts exactly on the game. I said that I wasn't excited because of a far-off date, but I also think it's because of what you just said.

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#22 Posted by BladeOfCreation (1342 posts) -

I'm more on board than I was after the E3 trailer. I got serious Deus Ex vibes in how you have options in tackling the same missions, which I'm really excited about. And wow, this game looks gorgeous.

The narrator was a little too much, IMO. I mean, it's a CDPR game, I know what to expect, but actually hearing the talking point of "mature and visceral" just made me cringe. We get it, bro. There's boobs and violence and drugs and et cetera. It felt like there were more f-bombs than even The Witcher has. Which in context works, but I dunno. Parts of it seemed a little to try-hard gritty-dark-world?

Shout-out to the notion of militarized, subscription service ambulances, though. That's probably prophetic.

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#23 Posted by Dixavd (2901 posts) -

@rahf said:

There are a few dissenting voices toward the narration. I'll say this: the voiceover they hired either tried to sound hard and a bit edgy, or was directed to sound that way. It didn't hit the mark for me, but wasn't a complete miss either. Personally, I definitely needed the content of his writing. The slice of gameplay they served would've been a confusing conundrum otherwise.

Don't forget: most people that play games are not even remotely as interested as we are.

Danny O'Dwyer pointed out that the narrator wasn't a hired voice actor, it's CD Projekt Red's lead writer, Borys Pugacz-Muraszkiewicz. He seems to just talk like that. At this Noclip timestamp link, you can hear him about when he was the English translator for the Witcher 1.

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#24 Posted by deckard (359 posts) -

Well, like Vinny said at E3 time - it’s somewhat reassuring that up close it looks like a real video game. Looking forward to it, but not losing my mind.

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#25 Posted by frytup (1316 posts) -

"Hey internet assholes, this is a work in progress. You can't whine about 'downgrades'. Did we mention it's a work in progress? By the way, this is an unfinished work in progress. OK, please enjoy WIP 2077."

I like it. Zero complaints about the look and atmosphere. Dialog and voice acting have potential to induce a bit of eye rolling, but the Witcher games have the same problem and it didn't bother me much in the end.

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#26 Posted by BoOzak (2592 posts) -

This looks like another Deus Ex game with open world elements, which is great. That being said I feel like the press oversold some of it's features.

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#27 Posted by Bobbyr (138 posts) -

Been pretty much on media blackout (not on purpose or anything as I haven’t played CDPR’s games) and I watched the full demo. I’m definitely liking what I’m seeing as far as style, character interactions, and gameplay goes. Hope it runs fine on consoles.

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#29 Posted by MyCoolYoungHistory (55 posts) -

@rahf: I am pretty sure the guy that did the voiceover is an employee, Borys Pugacz-Muraszkiewicz, who was the english adaptation director for TW3. He's in the noclip docs a lot and the voices seem very similar. That's just how he talks.

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#30 Posted by Dan_CiTi (5224 posts) -

@boozak said:

This looks like another Deus Ex game with open world elements, which is great. That being said I feel like the press oversold some of it's features.

yeah, maybe their demo slightly was different, but Waypoint talking up the sociopolitical details like that android's healthcare during the first part of the demo just seems a biiit much having seen this now. It definitely looks like a game I'm interested in, but Vinny's remarks seem to be the most measured.

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#31 Posted by Brackstone (910 posts) -

I think it looks damn cool, but I have concerns that the RPGness of it might conflict with the immersion that seems to be it's main selling point. I actually liked how the guns seemed, but the enemies seemed pretty spongy, and it seems like you can level up your damage, so this could lead to weird situations where you shoot someone in the head and it barely scratches them. If they contextualize it properly, it could be ok (helmets, strong dermal implants or something), but I'm concerned that the curve on enemy health and player damage could make the game feel too gamey.

I'd prefer it if the curve never affected your raw damage numbers, a gun won't magically deal more damage for because you earned some xp points, but rather that the power curve be based more on abilities and weapon handling (ie reduced recoil). Again, these concerns could be completely unfounded, but a couple things they showed indicated that this could be the case.

Also, I hope this will finally be the game that can do a lethal/nonlethal morality system properly. Just about everything else that's tried, from Deus Ex to Metal Gear to Dishonored has absolutely failed in that regard, no matter how good the game is otherwise.

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#32 Posted by avantegardener (2369 posts) -

It looks fantastic, heaps of atmosphere and world building, honouring it's legacy. I would have some concerns around combat, and how kinetic that feels, but hopefully there is plenty of time to tighten up the graphics on level 3.

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#34 Posted by Pezen (2381 posts) -

Seeing the part where they were driving the car in third person really grounded the feeling that it looks great but it’s also just a game sort of thing. But overall it looks really promising. Combat looks pretty decent, dialogue trees and mission branching seems really interesting. I especially enjoyed their audio design in large areas. So much going on at once and everything felt like it had a purpose rather than just being ambient noises. Also, tell me I can customize a character and I’m already double sold. Glad I watched it, it really convinced me I was right in that it seems to be a game for me. But it also sort of grounded my expectations a bit, which is good.

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#35 Posted by bludgeonParagon (20 posts) -

I'm just glad that regular folks can now see the gameplay with their own eyes as opposed to listening to press hype it up beyond belief.

I'm also glad that I can temper my expectations accordingly. To me it just looks like the modern Deus Ex format of RPG shooters drawn out to its logical conclusion with a bigger scope and fewer seams. It doesn't look like it's going to redefine the genre or make every other RPG obsolete, it just looks like it'll turn out to be a very dense and detailed game of its genre, blessed with the experience of previous games with fewer technological restrictions to limit its scope. God knows so many of the publications were cranking the hype machine hard since E3 this year.

That said I am still genuinely excited to see how it turns out, and I'm very satisfied at the level of detail that they went into for the demo footage.

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#36 Posted by TheRealTurk (527 posts) -

Honestly, I'm more excited that it looks like "just a game" as opposed to some uber-clean jazzed up marketing push. Unlike pretty much every other AAA preview these days, this one doesn't look too good to be true. It looks really ambitious, sure, but not in a "there's no way it's going to look like that" kind of way.

I also want that cyber-jacket. They'd better sell a version of that cyber-jacket.

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#37 Posted by frytup (1316 posts) -

I'm just glad that regular folks can now see the gameplay with their own eyes as opposed to listening to press hype it up beyond belief.

I'm also glad that I can temper my expectations accordingly. To me it just looks like the modern Deus Ex format of RPG shooters drawn out to its logical conclusion with a bigger scope and fewer seams. It doesn't look like it's going to redefine the genre or make every other RPG obsolete, it just looks like it'll turn out to be a very dense and detailed game of its genre, blessed with the experience of previous games with fewer technological restrictions to limit its scope. God knows so many of the publications were cranking the hype machine hard since E3 this year.

That said I am still genuinely excited to see how it turns out, and I'm very satisfied at the level of detail that they went into for the demo footage.

Very few AAA RPGs offer genuine choice that has a significant impact on the game world and the story you experience. CDPR is certainly claiming reactivity will be central to 2077. IF they can pull that off with a game of this scope it will be an impressive accomplishment, and it's the hook for me at this point.

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#38 Edited by Tennmuerti (9463 posts) -
@brackstone said:

I'd prefer it if the curve never affected your raw damage numbers, a gun won't magically deal more damage for because you earned some xp points, but rather that the power curve be based more on abilities and weapon handling (ie reduced recoil). Again, these concerns could be completely unfounded, but a couple things they showed indicated that this could be the case.

I am 100% with you on this.

However it turns out that the RPG games with shooting that did this like ME1 and Alpha Protocol got dinged by the games media for having shooting rely on RPG dice rolls. When in reality it was nothing of the sort and indeed the more you invested in gun skills in those games the tighter your spread/recoil on specific weapon types would become to the point of ridiculous point accuracy that would make Call of Duty blush. "But oh no guns shoot too wildly and inaccurately, down scores!" "Yes mr. journalist buddy you didn't spend many points in being able to use that type of gun, it's an RPG" ... So now instead we have games like Fallout 4 where you spend skill points in light guns and magically do double damage instead of being more accurate or better controlling recoil. Thankfully we are now past the era of rampant game simplification, and the "influencer" segment is way more understanding/welcoming of meatier games systems, being willing to dig into them much more so the traditional press. But I am apprehensive that the negative stigma still lingers and might carry over to Cyberpunk.

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#39 Posted by The_Greg (542 posts) -

I didn't think the game looked that great, graphically.

When the camera was up close with characters or items of interest, it looked fantastic, but the overall graphical fidelity whilst playing didn't look spectacular.

They could polish this before release, but how often does that actually happen?

I'm still looking forward to it as much as before. Everything else about it looked decent. People should be warned about over-hyping, though. It never ends well.

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#40 Posted by Brackstone (910 posts) -

@tennmuerti: I feel like there was a period where Call of Duty spoiled a lot of people's opinions on gun handling in games. If the guns didn't have that CoD style perfect accuracy for the first shot or two with next to no recoil, if people couldn't just pop dudes in the head with one shot left and right, something was wrong with how the guns felt.

It's kinda like that thing Jeff brings up once in a while: Headshots have kind of been bad for videogames, or at least some videogames. Many people expect games to allow for perfect accuracy and perfect gameplay, sometimes from a competitive point of view they want to eliminate any random elements and leave only skill, but the existence of headshots and weak spots means that near perfect accuracy on guns can seriously endanger the balance of the game.

It's a strange position, I know, but it's why I prefer playing many shooters on console over PC. The loss in dexterity and accuracy just seems to balance out the damage model of most shooters a lot better. People actually aim for the body more because shooting for the head is harder and riskier, but with greater rewards. Sure it doesn't necessarily feel like I have as much control over the game, but overall the game is healthier for it. It's also why the trend towards faster paced shooters with lots of mobility has been good for the genre. It's a problem that's easily solved in RPGs, hell Deus Ex did it nearly 20 years ago, but everyone seems afraid of the CoD/Counterstrike/competitive shooter crowd bombarding the reviews with "the guns feel bad, you can't hit anything and it's all just dice rolls".

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#41 Edited by ThatOneDudeNick (1570 posts) -

I hope that there are enough of those moments where choice matters, and I hope it matters on a greater scale than 3 steps into a questline. I've been promised that "choice matters" a lot, and it's never delivered to the magnitude that it's implied.

I think the game looks fine graphically for an RPG. The style overpowers fidelity. I thought it was beautiful because of its design. We complain when we get dolled up gameplay videos, then complain that it's ugly when we get seemingly real visuals in a video. They took a lot of shit already for Witcher 3 not looking close enough to its E3 demos. I appreciate that this looked like something that could run in real time on current hardware.

RPG's with guns is always an interesting thing. I don't think of it any different than magic or melee weapons, most don't go down with a single fireball, bolt of lightning, or being hit in the face with a sword. It's weird to get used to sometimes, but people need to realize it's an RPG first, not a shooter. I can't think of many ways to do guns in RPG's other than accuracy, trigger control (at level 1 shots all go low left and you blame the sights), speed of followup shots, and reload speed to be what's being leveled up, then have power come from only new guns. That could be easily written away with "they already know how to shoot", though. It's just one of those things that I allow my brain to put aside (like needing to hit someone in the chest with an ax 12 times before they go down).

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#42 Edited by Ares42 (4359 posts) -

@thatonedudenick said:
but people need to realize it's an RPG first, not a shooter.

To be honest, watching the demo I got the opposite feeling. When I think RPG with shooter elements I think Fallout. It has a bunch of different features and systems, the shooting has an alternate non-action mode and much of the interesting part comes from character interaction. This demo portrayed the game very much in the traditional shooter structure of story beat then combat arena, rinse repeat. It showed basically no trade skills, no character development, no companion features, no housing, no nothing. In 50 minutes they showed off two major combat scenarios some world building and storytelling and barely anything else. Comparatively the Fallout 4 reveal was 30 minutes and in that time they only had two short combat montages. Even compared to Mass Effect this came off as leaning more towards the shooter side of the spectrum.

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#43 Posted by NTM (11826 posts) -

Hey, if anyone is interested. Digital Foundry talks over the entire video discussing the details in visuals.

Loading Video...

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#44 Posted by Deathstriker (1174 posts) -

It looked fine, but not mindblowing and critics overhyped it by saying silly stuff like it doesn't look current gen. It's trying a little too hard to be cool and the shooting didn't look very good. Also, we should be able to alternate between first and third person.

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#45 Posted by Humanity (18797 posts) -

@ares42: they showed off all that stuff to mentioned. There is a home base that you can probably decorate and grow as there were empty slots on the walls for guns and such. In the house you got to choose armor from the closet that had stat bonuses. They showed you interacting with NPC’s and branching dialog options for how you wish to approach quests. There was the entire part where you go upgrade skills before taking on a mission.

All the typical RPG elements were there, it’s just the UI is obviously not done yet cause a lot of it wasn’t very clear and a lot more scripted to make it flow better. This gameplay reveal is cool but also a weird choice on their part because it looks very stitched together - the most vertical of vertical slices.

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#46 Posted by BrunoTheThird (834 posts) -

If that is the exact thing, or a close approximation, of what people were shown behind closed doors at E3, it was absolutely overhyped and lavished with unnecessary hyperbole. The fact it still looks pretty dope, though, is a fantastic sign in spite of that. Witcher 3 was one of those games that actually did feel revolutionary and groundbreaking in a fair number of ways, especially in terms of scope, and invoked that, "I can't believe this is a game," feeling frequently -- arguably moreso when they patched it up -- so it won't surprise me when this goes through many passes before release and ends up matching the giddy levels of hype the press felt back in June. CDPR are certainly able to hit it home, though we can all probably agree this will be their biggest feat if they manage to pull it off.

We shall see. I'm very excited.