Is dexterity a waste of time and souls?

Other than meeting weapon requirements, is there any use in improving your dexterity? It seems like the only weapon with the highest dex requirement is about 20. I was playing as a thief and my dex is at 30 and I think I'm pretty far into the game (getting the last lord soul). People have also been saying that the weapons stats don't scale as much with your stats. So have I wasted 10 soul levels putting them into dexterity? It seems like strength is the stat you want to go since most weapons, unique and rare ones, require a high strength stat. So is there any reason you would want a high dexterity in this game? At what point should I stop putting points into it? There are rumors that you can run slightly faster or roll slightly further, but I doubt it. I know in Demon's Souls you can reduce fall damage with a higher dexterity, but they seem to have removed that effect in Dark Souls.

Seeing as how the lightning weapons are far and above the best weapon....yeah DEX seems like a waste. STR for that matter is in the same boat too, but some weapons do need a big STR number.

The Pharis Bow might be worth it since it has an S in DEX, but 30 is too much I think. I stopped at 20 and I loved DEX builds in Demon's Souls.

And yeah I have no idea when the somersaults and ninja flips are supposed to kick in.

@MiniPato: No its not a waste there are weapons that scale of STR and items that scale of DEX, depending on what upgrade path you choose you can also increase how much they scale try to aim for a -/S/-/- Weapon check out the wiki if you are unsure

Dex is just as viable as str, you just have a diverent weapon selection at your disposal.

Bows generally scale very badly with STR so youre ranged attacks are gonna rock with a good amount of dex aswell ontop of the increased movement speed

It depends on what weapon you're using, really. Some weapons like spears and bows are heavily dex based, and keep getting stronger until around a dex of 40.

@Questionable: Too bad the best DEX swords only get as high as a B rating in DEX.

Questionable speaks true. So does Doctorchimp, sort of. While elemental weapons are more powerful than "naked" upgraded ones, normal upgraded weapons are more powerful when used with magic/other sorts of weapon buffs. So, it depends how you want to play.

@Doctorchimp said:

And yeah I have no idea when the somersaults and ninja flips are supposed to kick in.

It doesn't; you get a ring that allows you to do flips and such so long as you're under 50% equip load(!!!). You can wear any armor and move around like you're wearing cloth if you can match the equip load. You get the ring from Shiva of the East's ninja bodyguard.

@TwilitEnd656: tell me more....about this shiva....

@Questionable said:

@MiniPato: No its not a waste there are weapons that scale of STR and items that scale of DEX, depending on what upgrade path you choose you can also increase how much they scale try to aim for a -/S/-/- Weapon check out the wiki if you are unsure

Dex is just as viable as str, you just have a diverent weapon selection at your disposal.

Bows generally scale very badly with STR so youre ranged attacks are gonna rock with a good amount of dex aswell ontop of the increased movement speed

I have been using bows less and less and mainly engage in melee, so I'm not sure how much it will help me damage wise. I've been using the lightning spear ever since I got it at Sen's fortress and I think I've topped out the damage on that. Haven't gotten any s-rank dexterity weapons. I'm just feeling painfully underpowered at the moment. I'm summoning people and I see them taking huge amounts of health off enemies in one swing of their sword or with one cast of a magic spell. So far it just seems like strength and magic are the go to methods and that dexterity hasn't been paying off much lately.

Also is the increased movement speed a confirmed effect?

@Doctorchimp said:

Seeing as how the lightning weapons are far and above the best weapon....yeah DEX seems like a waste. STR for that matter is in the same boat too, but some weapons do need a big STR number.

The Pharis Bow might be worth it since it has an S in DEX, but 30 is too much I think. I stopped at 20 and I loved DEX builds in Demon's Souls.

And yeah I have no idea when the somersaults and ninja flips are supposed to kick in.

The ninja back flips and all that are an effect of a ring. There was a rumor that with 30 dexterity you could do it, but I'm dex 30 and no flips or anything.

I've been going whole hog strength and am currently lugging around the black knights greatsword, so i literally have to pour all my points into endurance just so i can swing that thing more than once. No clue if Dex helps out a lot though. I haven't been seeing too much cause and effect when i put some points into it, so dunno.

Isn't it weapon dependent? Wanderers can start the game with a backflip using their scimitar.

I'm playing a dex thief, using a bandit knife +10 and a rapier +10 and I have a dex of 37 right now, and I keep seeing massive improvements in my backstab damage. Now, most bosses don't let you backstab I don't think, but that's why I've got the rapier too. It scales with dex and has a better range than the bandit knife. I am just doing normal upgrades on these because it seems like every other kind of enchantment nerfs the dex rating, which is no good for my purposes. This might not be the best min/max way to do things, but I've been really enjoying the speed. It suits my play style. I haven't leveled my longbow up very much, but it seems to scale well with dex too. I'm just holding out hope for that Pharis bow.

EDIT: I have not seen any flipping around with my character, so I suspect it's not a stat based thing? I'll let you know if it happens when I hit 40. And I'll try the other weapons too, like AIKusangai suggests.

- Weapon swing speed is not affected by stats.
- The ninja backflips are not affected by stats. It comes from a ring.
- Str and Dex are weapon requirement and damage modifier stats. Some weapons get their damage from Str, others Dex, some both. (also some from faith and int).
 
Personally I regret putting points into Dex beyond what I needed to wield my katana. Because katana's scale off Dex I kept buffing it to be really strong, but it turns out that once you turn it into a lightning katana, it doesn't scale with stats at all anymore, so all that dex is completely wasted. Also, lightning is definitely the right way to go for weapon upgrading, its completely amazing against everything.

Dex went from arguably the best build in Demon's Souls, to the worst in Dark Souls. Dex is a serious waste as all the weapons have low ass Dex requirements now and elemental weapons make a mockery of scaling weapons. Not to mention the miracle that slows down movement speed. There is NO REASON to bother with a dex build over a strength or especially a vit/end character.

@Chop: I found in Demon's Souls that magic weapons made a mockery of strength-based builds. Are elemental powers similar in this respect, or is it even more egregious?

In the last game after pumping most of my stats into magic (and some dex), I created a +5 Crescent Falchion with damage that was through the flippin' roof. It was gratifying to become a melee powerhouse without ever putting a single point into strength. I know there were Strength based weapons that did more damage, but it's such a quick weapon that I could get off 3 hits by the time a greatsword had made one hit. Left fewer openings too. Add to that having a complete arsenal of deadly magic powers, and it was a fun build to play.

This time around, playing a bandit-cum-knight. Was already thinking of turning my +10 Battle axe into a lighting axe. From you guys are saying, sounds like I was on the right track.

Elemental weapons make scaling weapons laughable unless faith or int are involved, and the minimum requirement for dex on most weapons is fairly low. So yes dex is a bit of a waste. If you use a high dex scaling weapon then its fine I guess, but you won't be as good as a character who just upgraded his weapon to lightning and pumped endurance and vitality. Strength beats out dex as well, but not as badly.

@mason: It's not even because of the absurd power that elemental weapons have, it's the fact that there is no S scaling. You'd have to have your Int/Faith/Str/Dex stat over 50 and have a +15 weapon before you started to do even close to the damage an electric weapon can do. By that time, an electric weapon user will have build up their endurance to 40 and their vitality to absurd levels, so you'll be gimped either way.

At least with Intelligence or Strength you can half justify it with the unique abilities and weapons you get. But with dex, you get NOTHING out of working it that high (besides bows, which...lol). I really feel like the massive cut back on scaling was a huge oversight on From's part. You literally cripple yourself if you don't use an electric or chaos weapon build.

I guess I'm "playing the game wrong" then. I've got a dex of 40 and use a lighting spear and silver knight spear both at +4 but the silver knight spear usually is the harder hitting of the two, and no other non spear weapon I've tried has anywhere near the damage output for me.

Whoa, I got like 20+ dex and I'm enjoying it with my Scimitar+10, its doing amazing damage (kill blight town sods in 2 hits).
 
As long as things die, I'm happy with this build.

@AlKusanagi: There is no wrong. You're not playing the best current build known, but that's a good thing. If everyone just played as the same guy, we'd never find crazy, impractical builds that somehow work and crush shit!

@Chop said:

Dex went from arguably the best build in Demon's Souls, to the worst in Dark Souls. Dex is a serious waste as all the weapons have low ass Dex requirements now and elemental weapons make a mockery of scaling weapons. Not to mention the miracle that slows down movement speed. There is NO REASON to bother with a dex build over a strength or especially a vit/end character.

This is exactly why I feel like I've wasted souls on dexterity. It was nice in the beginning to use with my bandit knife, but now I have a spear which does as much damage against armored enemies in less time and without exposing myself that I have no real justification for using the bandit knife +10 which has an A rank in dexterity. Maybe I'll find a better spear that has an S rank in dexterity or something, but I'm finding the lack of dexterity required weapons to be a huge oversight. There are weapons that require 50 strength while the highest for dexterity is like 20. No reason to upgrade to a raw weapon or an elemental weapon cause my magic stats or strength aren't high enough. It really seems like magic or brute force seem like the ways to go. They could have at least gave me the courtesy of not taking too much fall damage :/ So far it seems like going the dexterity route is a high risk/low reward setup.

Maybe I ought to use a scimitar or rapier. People seem to be having a better time with those weapons with dex builds.

This only serves to make me even less interested in getting involved in PvP. Sounds like another arms race in the works. People will be forced to spec a certain way, or die.

I don't feel forced to limit my builds in single player. Even if my weapon isn't the optimal choice, I'll still use different ones for fun. But I don't like the idea of being slaughtered just because I'm not playing the same way as everyone else. I felt like this also happened in Demon's Souls (though to a less obvious extent). It turned me off PvP since I would constantly be outmatched.

@mason: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm big on making very specialized and kinda gimped character. For example, my favorite character in Demon's Souls was my Yuria twin. Used nothing but firespells and the insanity catalyst. I'd get smoked by any invaders but I'll be damned if I didn't have a good time playing as her :)

@TaliciaDragonsong: I'm building up a scimitar to try out just because I keep seeing you sing its praises! It has an interested move set!

I wish people would stop worrying about "wasting" stats... Dex is a viable stat to beat the game, if you just roll with it, UNLESS you care a lot about PvP, since everyone else will probably build end/vit and go elemental. If it's your first time through the game, just keep building how you want, find the best weapon that scales with your primary stat, and find stuff you like... it's not like you can take these levels back, so have some god damned fun, people!

@bcjohnnie: Ditto. You spent $60 on a game (unless you had credit built up or something)--don't let it run into a chore! Enjoy the shit out of it! PvP isn't likely to be a big thing for a while anyway. Honestly, how often have any of you invaded or been invaded by someone else? Needing to be human is going to limit PvP considerably, at least for the time being, along with the within-three-levels thing.

@bcjohnnie said:

@MagusMaleficus said:

I don't care about PvP, but I'm having a tough ass time with the bosses and enemies, more so than before and I feel like I'm doing something wrong, like I'm underleveled. I'm building the way I want, but I what I want is to be able to use any of the cool unique weapons in the game and most of the ones I've found so far are all strength based or magic based so I can't use them. The main weapon I've been using for half the game until this point is the lightning spear and that doesn't even scale with any stat. I'm wondering if this game accommodates dexterity based players as well as strength and magic based ones because I'm not seeing many benefits for dexterity. I wouldn't be complaining if dexterity did more than just slightly increase my damage with certain weapons or if there were more dexterity heavy weapons in the game, and so far it doesn't seem like the game has much for dexterity builds.

@MiniPato: Yeah I certainly understand that... curved swords are a good dex-scaling weapon, so if you want to take full advantage of your dex stat, just keep upgrading one of them. Overall, I agree that Dex is largely overlooked in this game, but I think you can totally still use it. I have to admit that I switched to a lightning Iaito because my dex-based damage was getting a little low, but I'm going to upgrade my falchion to 10 or maybe 15 and see how it does.

In Demon's Souls I pumped my DEX up so high that I was delivering massive damage with the Winged Spear. I used that spear for the entire game with no problem. I'm sure this will hold true for Dark Souls.

My Winged Spear +10 did significantly more damage before I "upgraded" it to Ornstein's Dragon Hunting Spear.  "Here's your reward for killing Ornstein 2nd!  You just destroyed your best weapon!"

@MiniPato: Well if it helps, I started out as a thief and pumped a shitload of points into dexterity. Most guys I slaughter with backstabs or parry/ripostes, no need to really fight. Bosses I either take care of with firebombs, arrows from a distance, or the Drake Sword if shit gets crazy.

Quelagg's Furysword is E/B/-/- but it does so much friggin damage with +5 i wouldn't even notice if my Dex did anything for it.

Lightning weapons are fine for the first playthrough.
But for Newgame+ and beyond you have the stats to spare to make scaling weapons leave lightning ones in the dust. Which are whatever you want including DEX.

@MiniPato: The reason you see so much damage is because they are using big weapons. Weapons that are ok for frontal assults. you said you were using a dagger, Daggers are meant for backstabbing or parries. Higher Dex wont make a life changing difference but it does help.

I just started this game today and I had the idea of playing a sorcerer but upping my dexterity quite a bit for daggers, spears, and bows so that I can mix it up with some hand to hand combat. I hope I don't fuck my whole build up.

@McShank said:

@MiniPato: The reason you see so much damage is because they are using big weapons. Weapons that are ok for frontal assults. you said you were using a dagger, Daggers are meant for backstabbing or parries. Higher Dex wont make a life changing difference but it does help.

I was using a dagger until I saw that my lightning spear was doing way more damage with backstabs and ripostes than my dagger.

I'm nearing the end of the game now anyways, so I'm just gonna pull through with what I have. Lightning spear to the end!

The point of the game is to have fun. If you go with a certain build and it doesn't work out then start a new character and go again. I have multiple characters and some are exclusives. Such as magic, pyro, strength, archer, faith, or dex. Dex is not a waste if you know how to play it. Go with the great scythe +10-15 and you'll do close to the amount of damage that a strength build does. In half the time. I played a strength build right alongside a friend who did dex and he started off slower but towards the end he was doing as much or more damage then me. And there are advantages to both. Such as goughs great bow. Strength had a knock back effect with it but dex did more damage. So just play how you want and if you want a challenge play something crazy like a dual wielder or strictly archer. Have fun. And quit worrying about it

@vampire9oh7: Should have checked the date on the post mate :)

Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

The Great Scythe is one of the best weapons in the game, and has a A rank in dex scaling at +15.

Falchion too.

Regardless, OP doesn't seem to know what he's talking about either.

Edit: I'VE BEEN TRICKED

Nearly 2 year old thread necro? Nice.

Maybe we should start locking threads after a year of non-use. This one is too out-of-date in info to comment on.

@tennmuerti: eh figured I throw my opinion on there lol

@viking_funeral: Eh. If people are interested in something then they'll talk about it. Don't need much more moderation than that.

And this is true:

...but if anyone's thinking of leveling Dex or Str above 40-50 for anything except a particular high-prereq weapon you want to use, you'll sadly be wasting your time. The drop-off in stat-scaling happens pretty abruptly, so any increase beyond 40-50 Dex or Str will be negligible in all but the most impossibly-lucky scenarios. This is even more true for non-PVP play.

(Source: http://darksouls.wikidot.com/stats)

It sucks that there have been "soft" caps like this that have been established, a la Diablo II (haven't played Diablo III) or similar highly-popular games, as it makes the experience seem much less "freeform," but on the bright side, the game's got a fuck ton of weapons and armors that are close enough to each-other that you'll be able to pick your favorite without sacrificing much in the way of actual efficiency.

...Just putting this here in case anyone happens upon this thread in the future and is still curious.

It would be interesting if DaS had a level cap at maybe 75 but all stats scaled linearly. Would be cool to toss everything into Str and be a true glass cannon, dodging and one-shotting everything.

@ravenlight: Linear scaling could be incredibly awesome, I'm sure. I personally like the insanely-high level cap, though. If people want to stick around in a certain bracket, they're welcome to do so; meanwhile, people who just want to level their character like crazy can do that as well. I think forcing 'Invaders' to invade randomly, possibly going up against someone five times their level, was the biggest issue in that department. Yeah, they're invaders, and they should be at a disadvantage, but that's a bit extreme.

I want to find out more about Dark Souls 2's inner mechanics to see if/how they're addressing these kinds of things, but I can't think of a way to do so without spoiling the game for myself. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it all.

Yeah what an idiot. It's like it's his first time playing the game when it was first released and nobody knew anything about it. What a fucking moron.

HEY WAIT A MINUTE!

Endurance is all you need baby.

@minipato: GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This thread actually answered my question multiple times. I am making a new build and my misinformed friends all kept telling me to put some points into DEX for seemingly no reason even though I told them I'd be using STR weapons. I knew most of them were wrong, but I wasn't sure if DEX had a secondary effect I wasn't aware of.

Dex is plenty useful. Especially if you're a magic build; magic tanks are almost completely unviable, when all your strongest attacks are ranged you've got to be keeping your distance and that's one thing tanks cannot do. You want light, fast weaponry, like the katana-type swords or the Gold Tracer, all of which have fierce dex scaling. Plus, dex speeds up your spell casting.

Frankly I've always levelled dex up in tandem with strength for tank builds and let me tell you my +15 claymore is a force of nature. Scaling drops off massively past 40 so the only way to get good late-game or new game damage out of anything with equal strength and dex scaling is to level both up.

And elemental weapons are entirely unviable as soon as your strength or dex get past 30 or so. Factoring in scaling, at 40 strength and dex a +15 standard claymore will do significantly more damage than a +10 fire claymore and has the advantage that you can buff it with fire if you so wish.