Indie Games

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#1  Edited By michaelenger

I'm not sure where to post this, but seeing as this forum seems to be focused on talks about Giant Bomb as a whole, rather than just being about butt, I'm adding it here:

What is the official stance, and what does the community feel about the inclusion of indie games to Giant Bomb's repertoire? I'm not talking about games like Braid, that are "real" games with teams that eventually release their product on a commercial platform, but games like Jetpack Cat that are clearly made just for the hell of it (I doubt any publisher would distribute a game that isn't only full of, but relies heavily on 4chan memes). As a hobby game developer, I would love to add the projects I have been a part of here, but is it really wanted? Are games that aren't officially released in some commercial medium not "real" in the same way? And where does the level stop if we (or should I say you) decide to allow them entry? Do flash games count? What degree of quality/completeness/not-completely-retarded-ness does the game have to have?

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Endogene

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#2  Edited By Endogene

it depends on player base i guess

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#3  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

I asked about free/indie games a couple of weeks ago, and jeff answered on the podcast saying that indie/free games are good to go on the wiki as long as they don't infringe on other peoples copyrights e.g. freeware mario rip-offs.

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#4  Edited By Endogene

i remember that podcast but still, to much of it would kill the search engine

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#5  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

At the end of the day, indie games should govern themselves on a wiki. If there is demand for a page on an indie game, someone is going to create it. If there isn't demand, then no-one will create it.

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#6  Edited By michaelenger
MattyFTM said:
"I asked about free/indie games a couple of weeks ago, and jeff answered on the podcast saying that indie/free games are good to go on the wiki as long as they don't infringe on other peoples copyrights e.g. freeware mario rip-offs."
Really? Man, I should really keep up to speed on those podcasts. Does anyone know if Songbird has some sort of feed reader that will download podcasts automatically?

Endogene said:
"i remember that podcast but still, to much of it would kill the search engine"

I agree. Too much would cause an overflow of crap which would push focus away from the good games that people want to get to. Not that officially published games are always better than indie stuff, but still...
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Endogene

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#7  Edited By Endogene

thats not all that true really. I once made a game using gamemaker, its a rather convienent tool in making an engine for 2D games if i wanted to i could make a page about it, yet who would care?

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#8  Edited By michaelenger

If we open the floodgates to indie games they could easily have a common "indie" concept or something. I guess the level of desire for information concerning a game revolves around its popularity and quality. A good game with tons of fans will get a page with a lot of information but even with "official" games, you see that games that nodoby cares about have a screenshot or two and no info.

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Endogene

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#9  Edited By Endogene
netpsycho said:
"If we open the floodgates to indie games they could easily have a common "indie" concept or something. I guess the level of desire for information concerning a game revolves around its popularity and quality. A good game with tons of fans will get a page with a lot of information but even with "official" games, you see that games that nodoby cares about have a screenshot or two and no info."
actually that would be a freeware concept and an indie concept they'd need, i'm really worried what will happen with the search engine.
If those games could be filtered out then it would be ok to i guess... something like dont show games that have both these concepts
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#10  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator
Endogene said:
"thats not all that true really. I once made a game using gamemaker, its a rather convienent tool in making an engine for 2D games if i wanted to i could make a page about it, yet who would care?"
I see your point, but the majority of freeware/indie games would be added because there is demand. There may be the odd one where mods need to step in because it is completely unnotable, but that's what they're there for.
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#11  Edited By michaelenger

What are you so worried about, really? Adding another 1000 games to the database probably won't kill the system seeing as the amount of games out there in the world is huge and continues to grow everyday... and quality control and filtering is handled by the community who won't want to see YET ANOTHER shitty puzzle game by some wannabe game developer who didn't even bother testing his work before releasing it.

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Endogene

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#12  Edited By Endogene
netpsycho said:
"What are you so worried about, really? Adding another 1000 games to the database probably won't kill the system seeing as the amount of games out there in the world is huge and continues to grow everyday... and quality control and filtering is handled by the community who won't want to see YET ANOTHER shitty puzzle game by some wannabe game developer who didn't even bother testing his work before releasing it."
There quite more than a 1000 pacman and tetris clones out there on the web i can guarantee you that. it are the shitty shitty shitty il less then an hour made games that i fear.
Im fine with real independent games, by actual developpers
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#13  Edited By michaelenger
Endogene said:
"netpsycho said:
"What are you so worried about, really? Adding another 1000 games to the database probably won't kill the system seeing as the amount of games out there in the world is huge and continues to grow everyday... and quality control and filtering is handled by the community who won't want to see YET ANOTHER shitty puzzle game by some wannabe game developer who didn't even bother testing his work before releasing it."
There quite more than a 1000 pacman and tetris clones out there on the web i can guarantee you that. it are the shitty shitty shitty il less then an hour made games that i fear.
Im fine with real independent games, by actual developpers"
But where would you draw the line? Endogene already quoted Jeff saying that clones would infringe on copyright and are doomed to deletion. I say we have faith in people's judgement... just look at Wikipedia, whenever people add bullshit it gets removed quickly enough.
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calf_exercises

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#14  Edited By calf_exercises

Indie games are awesome, because instead of being made to make money they are made to hella fun a lot of the time unique.

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Endogene

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#15  Edited By Endogene

yeah yeah i know i remember the persons i quoted lol
The thing is i dont really see the community controlling it, not at this time anyway.
God this is a hard question, i cant even think clearly about it anymore

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#16  Edited By michaelenger

Haha, I meant MattyFTM.. I'm such a tard.
I think that people with enough points (>5000 or something) should be allowed to delete pages, if they aren't already. It would result in the website self-correcting when it gets over-saturated with unecessary crap. Indie games can be awesome, but "My First Game" doesn't deserve a page... anyway, I had my question answered and they allow indie games so I guess its up to the individual if he/she wants to add it.

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#17  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator
netpsycho said:
"Haha, I meant MattyFTM.. I'm such a tard.
I think that people with enough points (>5000 or something) should be allowed to delete pages, if they aren't already. It would result in the website self-correcting when it gets over-saturated with unecessary crap. Indie games can be awesome, but "My First Game" doesn't deserve a page... anyway, I had my question answered and they allow indie games so I guess its up to the individual if he/she wants to add it."
No, Users shouldn't be able to delete pages. There should be a simple system in place for users to flag up pages that should be deleted, but allowing users, no matter how big the points limit is, to delete pages will lead to abuse. They just need to install a small button somewhere on a page that reports a page to moderators as inappropriate.
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Endogene

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#18  Edited By Endogene
netpsycho said:
"Haha, I meant MattyFTM.. I'm such a tard.
I think that people with enough points (>5000 or something) should be allowed to delete pages, if they aren't already. It would result in the website self-correcting when it gets over-saturated with unecessary crap. Indie games can be awesome, but "My First Game" doesn't deserve a page... anyway, I had my question answered and they allow indie games so I guess its up to the individual if he/she wants to add it."
no 5Kplus only lets you delete images and chose the main boxart
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#19  Edited By michaelenger
MattyFTM said:
"netpsycho said:
"Haha, I meant MattyFTM.. I'm such a tard.
I think that people with enough points (>5000 or something) should be allowed to delete pages, if they aren't already. It would result in the website self-correcting when it gets over-saturated with unecessary crap. Indie games can be awesome, but "My First Game" doesn't deserve a page... anyway, I had my question answered and they allow indie games so I guess its up to the individual if he/she wants to add it."
No, Users shouldn't be able to delete pages. There should be a simple system in place for users to flag up pages that should be deleted, but allowing users, no matter how big the points limit is, to delete pages will lead to abuse. They just need to install a small button somewhere on a page that reports a page to moderators as inappropriate."
That's a good idea. I just felt that a better system than posting on the Delete forum was needed.
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Endogene

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#20  Edited By Endogene
netpsycho said:
"MattyFTM said:
"netpsycho said:
"Haha, I meant MattyFTM.. I'm such a tard.
I think that people with enough points (>5000 or something) should be allowed to delete pages, if they aren't already. It would result in the website self-correcting when it gets over-saturated with unecessary crap. Indie games can be awesome, but "My First Game" doesn't deserve a page... anyway, I had my question answered and they allow indie games so I guess its up to the individual if he/she wants to add it."
No, Users shouldn't be able to delete pages. There should be a simple system in place for users to flag up pages that should be deleted, but allowing users, no matter how big the points limit is, to delete pages will lead to abuse. They just need to install a small button somewhere on a page that reports a page to moderators as inappropriate."
That's a good idea. I just felt that a better system than posting on the Delete forum was needed."
heh weird, thought i didn't posted that reply... bizarre
anyway the site is still in beta i guess so such a system could be a good alternative for how we do it know.
Myself since ive got 5k+ now i'm cleaning up other user's mess, there is a lot of it...
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#21  Edited By michaelenger

Holy shit, you actually DO have over 5000 points. My god, man.. have you done nothing else than adding to GB since its release? Although you have nothing on MattBodega, who has over 30k...
PS: Friend'd.

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#22  Edited By JackiJinx
netpsycho said:
"
Endogene
said:
"i remember that podcast but still, to much of it would kill the search engine"

I agree. Too much would cause an overflow of crap which would push focus away from the good games that people want to get to. Not that officially published games are always better than indie stuff, but still...
"
I'm failing to see how either of these would "cause an overflow" or detract attention away from other games. If you look up Metal Gear Solid 4, you're going to find Metal Gear Solid 4 and not Dangerous High School Girls In Trouble, Jill Off, or The Six Day Assassin. It just doesn't work that way.

It is true that there are a lot of crappy indie games out there as well, but there's also a lot of great stuff, too. In any case, this is an encyclopedia, not a quality source site. If you want to talk quality, write a review. This site is meant to be as complete with video game information as possible and not to discriminate against games (with the exception of copyright infringing games).

Jeffsaid:
"Being selective is against our goal of total video game knowledge.
"
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Endogene

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#23  Edited By Endogene
JackiJinx said:
"netpsycho said:
"
Endogene
said:
"i remember that podcast but still, to much of it would kill the search engine"

I agree. Too much would cause an overflow of crap which would push focus away from the good games that people want to get to. Not that officially published games are always better than indie stuff, but still...
"
I'm failing to see how either of these would "cause an overflow" or detract attention away from other games. If you look up Metal Gear Solid 4, you're going to find Metal Gear Solid 4 and not Dangerous High School Girls In Trouble, Jill Off, or The Six Day Assassin. It just doesn't work that way.

It is true that there are a lot of crappy indie games out there as well, but there's also a lot of great stuff, too. In any case, this is an encyclopedia, not a quality source site. If you want to talk quality, write a review. This site is meant to be as complete with video game information as possible and not to discriminate against games (with the exception of copyright infringing games).

Jeffsaid:
"Being selective is against our goal of total video game knowledge.
"
"
dont quite remember who posted this example but what about all those games on newsground for example?
they could be considered indie games yet there is little to nothing interesting about them
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#24  Edited By JackiJinx

If they are made independently, they are indie games. Like I said, whether they are interesting or not is up to the player, not an encyclopedia. If there are entries made to the site for flash games, they are welcomed. Opinions are also welcome, but only in the reviews and the forums, not when deciding what goes where.

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#25  Edited By Vaxadrin

I vote Jetpack Cat stays.

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#26  Edited By Lies
Vaxadrin said:
"I vote Jetpack Cat stays."
I though you saided:
"The thing you need to take into consideration is that Jetpack Cat is more fun than Metal Gear Solid, Grand Theft Auto, and all the Halo games combined.  Why do you hate fun?"

I lieks how mini-feed doesn't change to reflect edits :) I also think any game named jetpack cat is friggin awesome and deserves to stay.
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#27  Edited By Vaxadrin

Lies

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#28  Edited By reflekshun

I vote to let the wiki govern itself, I believe the noteworthy games will have a presence and others not. In the rare case of infringement or waste of space, I'm sure the collective will clear them out. Giantbomb has a smart enough community!