Different Platform Versions

I saw StarFoxA's Iron Man page and started wondering if that's the right way to cover a DS version of a game. I know they share the same name and have been published as the same entity, but they're completely different games.
 
Personally I believe those pages should be split up, just like I did on the Max Payne and Max Payne pages. It's kind of a bummer that it clutters of the searching process, but I see no other way of handling this.
 
How is this supposed to be handled? Should the pages be merged or should a "(Platform)" tag be added to the "lesser" versions?

I think the game boy advance version of max payne could have been described in the main max payne page.....that's how wikipedia handles it and it makes perfect sense to me.

The path we're currently going down is one that that would disallow any such splits. In Max Payne's case, it's actually a pretty faithful conversion, aside from the removal of the dream sequences. I don't think we've ever considered a simple change in perspective to be one of the criteria for a separate page.

There is no reason Max Payne GBA couldn't be merged with the regular version.

" @LordAndrew: The only thing the GBA version has in common with the standard version is the storyline. How can this not be considered a separate game? It has got a different engine, new art, new sound and different gameplay mechanics - it's a new experience. "

" What are about Perfect Dark and Perfect Dark then? Please don't say that they're the same game. "

Having only one Max Payne page for those two game would make my mind melt. Those two are in now way alike. 
 
Great GBA game by the way. One of the rare games i actually finished (granted with infinite health but i did finish it)

" @iAmJohn: 
I completely disagree. By that definition, Doom 2 and Doom 2 RPG should share the same page as well. Similar music, the same basic mechanics (run around and shoot demons), same general art direction... it may be a remake, but it's still basically the same game.  "

" @TMThomsen said:

" @iAmJohn: 
I completely disagree. By that definition, Doom 2 and Doom 2 RPG should share the same page as well. Similar music, the same basic mechanics (run around and shoot demons), same general art direction... it may be a remake, but it's still basically the same game.  "

Doom 2 RPG is not based on the story or mechanics of Doom 2 last I checked.  Oh, and a first-person shooter turned into a turn-based RPG is significantly different from a behind-the-back third-person shooter with bullet time turned into an isometric third-person shooter with bullet time.  Again, they're the same game in every way except that.  It is a port.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And handheld port don't get pages unless they're not actually ports (like Perfect Dark, which is a unique game). "

" never mind, though you were going on about Max Payne "

  By that logic we should give every single GBA Tony Hawk game their own page.  I mean, it doesn't matter that they're the exact same game as the console versions - Vicarious Visions had to program the whole thing and make it an isometric game so it's totally a completely different game!! "

" @Rallier said:

" never mind, though you were going on about Max Payne "

I am.  It is a handheld port.  They ported the game with no changes in content aside from making it isometric to the GBA and therefore it doesn't deserve its own page.  By that logic we should give every single GBA Tony Hawk game their own page.  I mean, it doesn't matter that they're the exact same game as the console versions - Vicarious Visions had to program the whole thing and make it an isometric game so it's totally a completely different game!! "

" @iAmJohn:  I am completely stunned that you don't think it's that big a deal to make a third-person 3D action game into an isometric 2D shooter. For the record, I've tried both games and I fail to see how they can possible offer you the same experience.   To me, they're two different games; it takes more than a similar story and setting to say two games are the same. "

" @iAmJohn: You're crazy and I give up :)  Maybe this can convince you it's not a simple port: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porting "

@TMThomsen

"  @StarFoxA: For ports to other consoles, I believe that is the best way to do it.   However, the GBA version of Max Payne is not just an altered version (port) of the PC/PS2/Xbox game - it's a new game written from scratch. That's the point I'm trying to get across. "

I'm fully aware of what "porting" means.   

 I'm also fully aware that we don't give handheld versions of a game their own pages.

 By this logic, we should have multiple pages every time someone makes a current-gen to last-gen port or an HD to Wii port, since they most likely had to make a brand new engine to run the game!

 And perhaps you're not aware of this, but there's a reason we don't do that or make a page for every single handheld port out there.

 Those various Double Dragon ports were made by different people and made from scratch for their respective consoles.  Why don't those get their own page?  

I'm absolutely dumbfounded to see this conversation happen...
 
I've seen odd stuff happen when it comes to people having different interpretations about the wiki rules but this is extreme.

Okay, I understand that the Max Payne GBA game plays differently than the PS2/Xbox/PC version... but I really don't care.  We're spending a lot of effort around here to eliminate unnecessary pages.  By allowing a Max Payne GBA page, we'd be opening the door to having an individual page for virtually every multiplatform release of every GBA, GBC, DS, PSP game.   It should be understood that a handheld version of a console/PC game is going to be different, which is why the differences should be explained on the main game's page.
 
Having its own page goes against everything we're trying to get accomplished, which you yourself (TMThomsen) have contributed to alot.

Ok... not liking where this removing "unnecessary" page thing is going now

 Having its own page goes against everything we're trying to get accomplished, which you yourself (TMThomsen) have contributed to alot.  

Yeah, but most of the pages I've reported have simply been special editions, compilations or other redundant data. As I stated in my opening post, I really do think it's a shame it will clutter of the database with an extra handheld version of many games, but I also feel it's wrong to merge too many pages together. I guess there is no easy solution and I'll go with whatever the staff/moderators decide.
 

" Ok... not liking where this removing "unnecessary" page thing is going now "

" @StarFoxA: Well that is what having no detailed written down rules about the wiki gets you. For me it has always been standard to add a page for a handheld version when it was different then the console version. "

And really, if you think every single game that is built on a different engine deserves its own page, please, I invite you to do so.  Here, let's make things easy: let's start with Madden.  If that's what you want to do, than it's your duty to go make a page for: 

• Every single Madden game released for the DS (that's six)
• Every single Madden game released for the PSP (five)
• Every single Madden game released for the Wii after Madden '07 (since they're all unique games)
• Every single Madden game released for the PS2 since Madden '07 (again, different engine than the next-gen versions!)
• Every single Madden released for any other handheld.  That includes Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance.  I'm pretty sure there were some Game Gear ones too.

" @iAmJohn:  those are all down ports. "

• Every single Madden game released for the PS2 since Madden '07 (again, different engine than the next-gen versions!)

" @iAmJohn: We are not using "different engine" as a qualifier but "different gameplay". "

" @Rallier said:

" @iAmJohn: We are not using "different engine" as a qualifier but "different gameplay". "

Well then you're argument's even weaker.  One is a third-person shooter with bullet time that involves bouncing around a New York City-based environment and mowing down enemies without the need of a cover system that you view from behind the character.  The other is a third-person shooter with bullet time that involves bouncing around a New York City-based environment and mowing down enemies without the need of a cover system... that you view from an isometric perspective.  That's hardly "different gameplay." 

 Because it's the same game.  The entire of TMThompson's argument was that the fact that it was "developed from the ground up for the Game Boy Advance" (read: different engine) makes it a new game, but now you're going back on that.  

 That's hardly "different gameplay."  The perspective may be different but nothing about the core gameplay has changed.  I could install a mod that places a fixed isometric camera into the PC version of Max Payne and - surprise! - it becomes the GBA version.

Guys... there's really no point in arguing this further, since it's been stated previously that the same game on separate platforms doesn't get multiple pages.

You have literally left me speechless. And with that, I'm going to bed.

" You have literally left me speechless. And with that, I'm going to bed. "

" The path we're currently going down is one that that would disallow any such splits.

" @iAmJohn: 
I completely disagree. By that definition, Doom 2 and Doom 2 RPG should share the same page as well. Similar music, the same basic mechanics (run around and shoot demons), same general art direction... it may be a remake, but it's still basically the same game.  
 
@LordAndrew:
I don't see how the hardware limitation is an excuse for not splitting them up. What are about Perfect Dark and Perfect Dark then? Please don't say that they're the same game. "

" @Unknown_Pleasures: Not any more different than a change of perspective in my book, which was the point I was trying to get across. "

i think a table of contents function should be added to pages, so if they have many components, like different platform versions on the same pages, it should be easy to navigate.

" i think a table of contents function should be added to pages, so if they have many components, like different platform versions on the same pages, it should be easy to navigate. "