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#1 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -

Just started playing Destiny 2 and decided to give multiplayer a try. Big mistake. Totally unbalanced unless you are in end game gear. Unload a full clip directly into someone's head, barely lower their shield. They turn around and one shot you with a hand cannon. As someone who doesn't have the time for raids, I am incredibly frustrated that I won't be able to play multiplayer either thanks to this dumb decision.

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#2 Edited by ToxicFruit (1922 posts) -

Did you play iron banner or normal crucible? Both iron banner and the new gambit mode have power levels enabled.

Don't really need high level raid gear to do well in normal crucible. Just find some good guns you like and get a feel for the meta.

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#3 Posted by vikingdeath1 (1302 posts) -

You definitely don't need high-level or Raid gear to be competent in the Crucible. Sure, exotic or legendary guns are gonna be more effective than Blue ones, but as long as you weren't playing Iron Banner then your level shouldn't come into play.
But the Iron Banner mode (The green circle in the multiplayer menu) is a mode that specifically has level advantage enabled. so you don't wanna go in that pool if you're low level. but regular multiplayer, ranked or unranked, should be fine for ya. I see people with lvl 2 characters in there kicking ass all the time. people with alts leveling up in the crucible.

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#4 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -

@vikingdeath1: I was playing on the non leveled MP not iron banner. Every other player was lvl 500+ light level, and would kill me and my friend in like one shot. I have played a ton of Halo and even the first destiny MP, but I have never felt so hopelessly outclassed and ineffective.

I streamed it on Twitch for what it's worth twitch.tv/lokihellfire2008

Maybe I just suck really bad and can't admit it, but when I would have a good shot on someone, I'd empty a while clip of a blue weapon and barely touch their life bar.

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#5 Edited by nutter (2137 posts) -

I never cared for it. I think the maps are too cramped and kill times are too quick.

I’ve had a fun round or two, but largely don’t enjoy it.

I think my issue with it is that it plays very closely to Halo, but it’s not Halo...and I’d much rather play Halo 3 competitive than Destiny 1 or 2 competitive modes...so, hey, preferences!

Co-op stuff...my issues are more around loot, soft caps, and not having the time to run raids. Though I’m happy to see Nightfall stopped being timed. Destiny 2 seems pretty good at the moment. Never thought I’d say that after last fall...

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#6 Posted by Quipido (1562 posts) -

I only play in competitive playlist now, because of the lower player count. Game feels pretty balanced to me, even with different levels of gear, which gets flattened out and it's just about picking right perks for your style of play.

That being said, Sleeper Simulant in Gambit is just ridiculous, I don't get why it's not nefed yet, since 70-80% invasion kills are by that weapon, that alone should point to a problem...

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#7 Edited by vikingdeath1 (1302 posts) -

I've been watching a little bit of your stream, I think the best advice I can give you is to lower you controller sensitivity. It looks like while you're aiming at enemies you're spending time moving back and forth trying to line up your aim, and while you're doing that your opponent is just headshotting you to death.

It is entertaining seeing a new player's perspective here. "That guy fired a Nova Bomb, what the heck is that??" hehehe. Yeah your Supers are LETHAL in PVP for sure. and some supers are much more effective than others. The void shield one you were using isn't ideal. Either the Titan's Fire or Arc subclasses are much more popular in PVP. (In PVE use whatever you please)

I hate to say it, I don't mean to be a jerk I swear.... but I didn't see anything off or out of the ordinary. and definitely not any level advantages happening. You're missing a Lot of your shots, while your opponents are not. I'm seeing you aim an SMG at someone halfway across the map, and that is never going to work at that range. you're just gonna get shot by a scout or pulse rifle at that range.

I think one advantage of other players having rarer guns is that better guns sometimes have higher "Aim Assist" which is a stat all guns have. Higher tier guns might have higher aim assist stats, whereas the guns you chose to use have low aim assist. meaning you had a bit more Swimmy aim.

I'm not saying Crucible is perfect, or even "Good" really. I pretty much only play it for the rewards and quests that require it. Shotguns are dominating multiplayer right now. They recently made shotguns MUCH more easily usable, and people are going ham on that. I would recommend not using SMGs and instead trying Auto rifles. SMGs are very inaccurate at any significant range. and aiming Hip-fire doesn't usually work out (Especially when trying to hip fire kill someone at close range with a pulse rifle... hint hint... I saw you doing that.. many times... that's like trying to no scope with a sniper rifle my dude.) and seeing people Slide and then shotgun you is on purpose. There is a perk called "Slideshot" which reloads your gun when you slide. so you see a lot of Run, Slide, Shotgun, repeat.

Your levels had nothing to do with it. This game just has a fast time to kill. and well..... I'm watching points where you claim to have unloaded a full clip into someone.... and you are missing most of your shots. You aren't actually hitting them, because if you were you WOULD be killing people! I swear! that SMG you were using should be ok at VERY close range, but not the ranges you were trying for, that's why you were missing. and the Pulse RIfle you were using was a slow-firing model, and ones with higher fire rates are more popular.

again, I don't really want to defend Destiny PVP. it is my least favorite part of the game. But some of the complaints you are having are honestly either nonexistent, or of your own making.

I also recommend a clan! The giantbomb clans are really nice people! https://www.giantbomb.com/destiny-2/3030-52647/forums/clans-and-grouping-utilities-updated-91218-1810357/

i'm sorry if I came off like a jerk. I was genuinely interested in your complaints, which is why i'm creepily watching a recording of two people i've never met playing Destiny (And eating chips loudly in my headphones! :P)

One last piece of advice is that many good Legendary (Purple) guns have an equivalent Rare (Blue) gun. If you get a "Badlands Mk.24" blue shotgun I recommend keeping it because its 90% as good as the 2nd best shotgun in the game. And a little googling can help you figure out the best blues you can get.

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#8 Posted by burncoat (558 posts) -

@quipido: Gambit definitely has a problem with that gun and the Queenbreaker (though QB a little less since it's a random drop). It's a OHKO hitscan on body hits which makes it unlike any item in the game other than rockets (which can you can dodge and take time to reach the target). You literally have to have Sleeper on in Gambit or you're wasting your potential and possibly hurting your team, which sucks because I hate being shoehorned into a build to be competetive. If they just made the damage on Guardians comparable to other Linear Fusion Rifles it would be fine.

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#9 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -

@vikingdeath1: I really appreciate your insights. I know it sounds like whining and I guess it is, but I just couldn't believe how bad it felt and how quick I seemed to die. I think I honestly need to have a separate loadout just for pvp because the guns I had were definitely not working. I saw alot of the slide shotgun maneuver, reminds me of the gears of war roll shotgun days. Because of my current setup I have to use a controller. Babies sleep in my room which is where my computer desk is, so I had to move my computer to the basement and the spare room with a couch is where I play now. My monitor is literally on a TV tray haha

The moment and aiming felt like I was in mud which is why I thought I'd turn up aim sensitivity but I think I will take your advice and try lowering it to see if that helps stay on target.

BTW you never sounded like a jerk, quite the opposite in fact.

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#10 Edited by vikingdeath1 (1302 posts) -

Oh oh! One more piece of advice for the early game:

Very early in the main story, you are given a choice of 3 Exotic guns. these guns are very good, but my #1 best advice for that choice: DO NOT choose the SMG!

You are given a choice of a Hand Cannon, a Pulse Rifle, or a cool looking SMG.... do not be fooled, the SMG is just "Okay" while the Pistol and Pulse Rifle are literally two of the best guns in the entire game. I used both that Hand Cannon AND that Pulse rifle in the last 24 hours, and i'm not sure i've even equipped that SMG in all of 2018.

I hope I wasn't too late for the choice. They do give it to you really early. That hand cannon (The Sunshot) is Incredibly popular in PVE, and the Pulse Rifle (The Graviton Lance) is one of the most effective guns in PVP. Though if I was too late you can still start a 2nd character and get back up to that choice to get the other guns. It doesn't take very long I swear, they give you that choice Really early, and its worth it to get all those guns. Though you can also get them later on from RNG.

Also I don't think i've done one of the sidequest adventures you did in your video, even after 100s of hours played. That wasn't main story related like I think you thought at the time. and I like your friend's name. I hope he's burninating the countryside.

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#11 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -

@vikingdeath1: the first stream we did of destiny 2 after I played a bunch of rocket league, we both sang the song every time I saw his name lol. I'm surprised he was able to get it honestly

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#12 Posted by meteora3255 (678 posts) -

@lokihellfire2008: I definitely recommend a separate loadout for PvP. There are guns and abilities I wouldn't use for PvE and vice versa.

The other point I would make is to remember you are coming into a game that is pretty established. Like almost every online shooter, the community gradually skills up as only the most dedicated players stick around long term. The learning curve might be higher for you just because you are playing a higher caliber of opponents than when the game launched.

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#13 Posted by vikingdeath1 (1302 posts) -

@lokihellfire2008: I'm glad I was useful! :)
A 2nd loadout for PVP is a good idea. I like SMGs for PVE, but i am terrible with them in PVP for instance.

and if I played on PC I too would be using a controller. I just don't have a good Mouse & keyboard setup. I mainly stuck with the PS4 version so I wouldn't have to compete with Mouse & keyboard players.
And yeah how did your friend get that name?! I couldn't even get "Vikingdeath"! I had to add a 1 on the end! lol

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#14 Posted by LiquidSaiyan3 (620 posts) -

Saw a little bit of your stream, and viking has provided a lot of good advice.

The only thing I would add is there was at least one occasion where you thought you got one shot, but you were peeking around a corner with less than half health and trying to engage two enemies who already had you in their sights.
If you do stick with the PvP, just try and be aware of your surroundings and situation. I'm absolutely guilty of being greedy with my shots, trying to get the kill before the enemy kills me, but it's almost always a losing scenario. Best to duck out and regain that health, or use that down time as an excuse to flank the opposing team.

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#15 Posted by Hestilllives19 (1253 posts) -

@lokihellfire2008: Vikingdeath already gave you a ton of great advice. With the 2.0.0 update just before Forsaken, the game's PvP took a huge turn, IMO for the drastic better, but I can understand some may not like it. It's a lot closer to what Destiny was originally, faster paced, high skill ceiling, low TTK. It can be jarring if you are expecting a Halo style PvP. Personally I love the TTK right where it is now, around 0.75-0.9s, as it prevents players from just disengaging from every single fight they are losing (which happened constantly before 2.0.0). I also prefer the constant Power Plays with Special Ammo back on the table but love the limit of only 2 rounds per life, it allows skilled players to really showcase their skills again, something Destiny 2 has been lacking severely until now. It's a game that's more cerebral than anything, knowing your loadouts and what they are capable of (ranges and TTK), what the enemy can bring to the table, how to maneuver around the map, how to read the radar, and when to or not to push certain angles. It's a lot to learn and get use to, so it's very understandable to be struggling as a new player. My biggest advice is just to play more and get use to the game, and honestly playing more PvE right now as a relatively new player probably isn't the worst idea as it will allow you to learn the archetypes and ranges of everything.

The one correction I'll make to @vikingdeath1's advice is about Graviton Lance. It's still a good PvE gun due to the changes made in Warmind, but it's actually pretty terrible in PvP right now. It's one of the few Pulses that still pushes above a 1.0s optimal TTK when things like Go Figure or Right Side of Wrong are hitting 0.73s with 6/8 Crits. Since you are leveling I highly recommend going for Mid Impact Pulses and a Shotgun or Sidearm/SMG as your close range. Again Sunshot is good in PvE as well, but so is Riskrunner (under certain circumstances it might be the best of the 3), so that early game choice is pretty much a free for all, as all 3 of those guns are pretty great in PvE but situational right now.

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#17 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -


I made an adjustment to my aim sensitivity and loadouts and wow...I did so much better. Also helps that I unlocked the subclass for the Titan and now sprinting and shoulder charging and using a shotgun as a secondary works great. I made a switch to an auto cannon and am having much better luck killing at medium range.

I played 50 minutes or so just now and finished in the top 3 several times. Had 19 kills on the last game I played of brawl and just narrowly Lost first on that one. Thanks for the advice everyone!

If you want to see for yourselves you can check out my twitch channel to see how much better I was after following your advice.

Bows still seem overpowered though...

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#18 Posted by vikingdeath1 (1302 posts) -

@lokihellfire2008: Glad to hear it duder! Yeah those Titan Sprinting melee's can be Incredibly effective. Good luck with the game!

and Whoops! @hestilllives19 Guess my Graviton Lance knowledge was not up to date. I've been using it with the Masterwork-upgrade version and that extra aim assist is pretty useful in the crucible. But I don't use Pulses very often in general.

I'd cast my vote for the Sunshot then! I love that gun, even without its' upgrade. I was just always bad with that Riskrunner SMG, but I haven't touched it since before the Pre-forsaken patch. And I didn't mean to imply that the Sunshot was bad in PVP, or that the Graviton Lance was bad in PVE, I just liked the two in different places. I used the Graviton lance in PVE a ton, but always preferred the Sunshot there.

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#19 Posted by Dan_CiTi (5219 posts) -

Yeah it's boring.

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#20 Posted by lokihellfire2008 (160 posts) -

Wow, just discovered that I hit the level 20 cap in like 6 hours. Can't spend $50 on the DLC so I guess I am done with this game for now.

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#21 Posted by LiquidSaiyan3 (620 posts) -

To be fair, your character's level is mostly insignificant. If you want more from the game, look into increasing your power level (which caps at 300 for the base game)

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#22 Posted by mems1224 (2505 posts) -

Destiny's multiplayer has always been abysmal. Still can't believe this is the same studio that made Halo.

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#23 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1253 posts) -

@mems1224: I think you mean Destiny 2, which is a statement I agree with, and so would the vast majority of the Destiny community. But Destiny had 3 years of extremely unique and genre defining PvP that literally millions of players played on a daily basis. A PvP that put Destiny, an FPS in the top 5 of Twitch views for the majority of those 3 years and created some really high profile Twitch Streamers from nothing like DrLupo, one of Fortnite's biggest streamers behind Ninja. Destiny 1 was fun to play and watch for years. Destiny 2 came around, changed way too much, and tanked almost instantly. It wasn't fun to watch or play because Bungie tried to go back to their Halo roots too much and it wasn't a fun game. The 2.0.0 update the week before Forsaken changed up the formula again, bringing back the Destiny 1 feel that players love, and Forsaken has been sitting pretty both on daily active PvP users and with it's numbers on Twitch. This isn't an accident.

I also understand it isn't the type of game for everyone. It's a difficult game to understand, which is what the whole thread has honestly been about. It will take you time to settle in and understand that it's and extremely mental game about quick decision making and a really high skill ceiling. But once you do, the things you can pull off... not a whole lot of other games can touch it's intensity. I think Fortnite is pretty much the only one I know of. Maybe Rainbow Six, but I never really got into that.

Note: I've never wanted to make "Montage" type videos of any other game besides Destiny. And I frequently find myself saving clips to make videos like the one below from the week between the 2.0.0 update and Forsaken.

Loading Video...

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#24 Posted by RichyHahn4 (306 posts) -

For what its worth , I just jumped into this game too and I was feeling outclassed in Crucible as well, I played Halo competitively when I was a kid and still remember ways to juke and bait people so my teammates can pick up my slack, but my reflexes are not what they use to be. I'm learning a lot from tips people are giving here though, so thanks everyone haha

The Gambit mode is pretty fun and I'm starting to feel more confident about jumping through that portal, even if I'm just waiting till I have my super and some power ammo ready...lol

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#25 Posted by mems1224 (2505 posts) -

@hestilllives19: nah I meant both. Both games have varying degrees of terrible pvp. My problem was never the difficulty, it just wasn't fun to play. It didn't have the map control of halo or the snappy twitch shooting of cod or the team play of Battlefield/Overwatch or the strategy of siege. It's pretty bottom of the barrel when it comes to Fps games this gen.

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#26 Edited by Hestilllives19 (1253 posts) -

@mems1224: All I can say is agree to disagree. It really doesn't seem like you've played much Destiny though other than a few games of Quickplay or 6v6, because all of your arguments can be tossed out the window for Destiny's competitive scene that started back in House of Wolves in Y1 of D1. As far as COD goes, that franchise is a dumpster fire and I can't believe anyone plays it anymore. The movement speed is awful and I feel like I'm crouch walking around the map after playing games like Destiny and Titanfall. Combine that with under 0.2s TTK's and I just don't understand how anyone enjoys that game anymore, but hey, I'm getting older and in my thirties so I guess I just don't have that quick of reflexes anymore. Battlefield is kind of it's own thing, and only really good for it's scale. It's a fun romp but nothing I would put any serious time into. Now Overwatch, that's a good comparison. I think you will find some people who enjoy it better than Destiny for it's competitive grind, ultimate usage, and teamplay. There is a reason why a huge portion of the Destiny playerbase switched to Overwatch when Rise of Iron wasn't as large as players expected, and again when Destiny 2 kind of wet the bed. I think Overwatch's biggest advantage over Destiny though is it's ease of use and ability to just drop in and play rather than grinding PvE content for awhile before really digging into PvP, which is something Destiny has an issue with because it's mostly a PvE focused game. Team play though, Destiny 2 was knocked for being too team focused (wrong kind of teamplay) at launch. It's the actual thing players hated about it. It felt like each player could contribute very little besides just standing in lanes and firing down, so seeing that go away is nothing but a blessing. Destiny still relies heavily in the more competitive modes on Teamwork, flanking maneuvers, proper Super usage and pushing with it as a team, and knowing how to Team down an opposing Super. It just also now highlights individual skill like Destiny 1 did to a much better degree. As far as Siege goes, it's just too hard of a game to compare to Destiny. Strategy is just too varied to be comparable. It's a different strokes for different folks sort of deal. Siege is quick, snappy, and about predicting/surprising the other team. Not that I've played a ton of it, but it seems like that gameplay loop would get old really quickly though. Though I know at least 1 friend at the top of the leaderboards on PS4 of Siege that would disagree. Strategy in Destiny is more about knowing your opponents loadouts/abilities, how they impact the game, and how to deal with them when they use them. Currently that's knowing how 27 different Subclass path's work, determining which of the 3 a player is likely using of his 1 out of 9 Subclasses (usually based on what most players utilize), but knowing the counters to them based on your own loadout. It's also knowing 16 different gun types (each with 3 different archetypes or so), over 40 Exotic Weapons and 24 Exotic Armors for each Class, and a handful of special Legendary Weapons with Exotic style perks and how they interact within Destiny. So when I say Destiny is a very cerebral strategic game, I'm not joking, there is a lot to learn and manage if you plan to play with any seriousness. The big comparison comes with Halo since this is Bungie, who created both. You will hear tons of people claim one is better than the other, but as far as Map Control goes, while Destiny doesn't have Power Weapons to control, map control is every bit as key here. It doesn't matter what Destiny game mode it is, you lose 100% of games that you don't maintain map control. Bungie always designs maps with power points in mind, from Halo to Destiny, and holding those will always win you the game. I try to stress this with teams I play with that try to protect their K/D (a silly concept to me, I care way more about winning a game than what my stats are) because controlling the map leads to easier kills, thus easy wins and better stats all around.

Maybe Destiny isn't the best game in every category, and I'm ok with that, even if I think it gives pretty much all of those games a run for their money in everything but twitch shooting because COD can keep that because I don't think that's fun. But being 2nd best in pretty much every possible category of what makes an FPS great, are you telling me that doesn't make for a great game? Pretty much everything Destiny does it does well. I don't mind knocking Destiny 2's PvP for it's shortcoming's, just ask some people over on the GB Destiny Discord, but right now, they are very minor gripes. A month ago, I would have trashed Destiny's PvP with the best of them, because it was pretty terrible to be honest, at least in comparison to what a Destiny game is capable of. But it's in a really good place right now.

Note: All that said, I've played a ton of Destiny's PvP, so maybe I'm biased. I had over 1,000 hours in D1 with 147 Flawless Trials runs and several hundred hours in D2 with 23 Flawless before they dropped Trials for Forsaken. I also picked up Redrix Claymore in Season 3 (legit, not cheating like some) and will likely go after Luna's Howl soon. So I've played Destiny at pretty much all levels of PvP, from causal Quickplay to really hardcore Comp against the top PS4 player in the world.

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#27 Posted by Casepb (703 posts) -

I love it, sure you can get one shotted now, but you can also one shot others. Maybe you just need to get use to it more. It's honestly the only FPS I play in pvp, besides OW, but it's been a few months since I played OW.

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#28 Posted by tds418 (478 posts) -

Yeah honestly I don't think shotguns are OP right now. Yes, they are one-hits at close range, but I feel like that's the point of shotguns? Bows are one-hit headshots at longer ranges and snipers too, of course. If you see opponents running with a lot of shotguns stay in more open spaces to draw them out and don't charge into enclosed corridors.

Strategy in Destiny is more about knowing your opponents loadouts/abilities, how they impact the game, and how to deal with them when they use them.

Can't emphasize this enough. To do well in Destiny PvP you really need to pay attention to what classes/weapons your opponents are using and when their supers will pop, and think about how to counter them. Also need to think about maximizing your own loadout (that is, if you're rolling with an auto/shotgun, not getting drawn into open spaces where you will be outgunned).

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#29 Posted by Charongreed (110 posts) -

I started Destiny in 2, and sort of liked the PvP. It felt good that accuracy and positioning mattered and you needed to keep track of where your teammates were and could relatively accurately predict where your enemies were. But as people complained, they made little adjustments, faster movement speed, faster power ammo spawns. But people kept complaining, and eventually they just threw it all out in favor of 'well this is how it used to be in Destiny 1 so I guess we'll just do that again'. Its a mess, filled with instant death, poor networking design (people regularly die a full second after taking damage, have randomly spiking and dying pings, and I've personally see people manipulate lag to teleport around), poor level design, completely unbalanced weapons and supers and exasperated with random weapon and armor perks. Its particularly damning that the mode they call Mayhem is easier to manage and predict than regular Casual queuing. And because most people aren't playing it, they have to link as many quests and objectives to it as they can, even going so far as to turn off skilled matchmaking for a time.

They're approximating CoD with much less polished design, because that's what's popular so that's what people want. I've spent a lot of time with faster shooters in the past (150+ hours in Titanfall 2 most recently), but this doesn't grab me at all. But if people like it, fine, not everything needs to appeal to me. But it doesn't feel anything like the rest of Destiny. It shows so clearly in Gambit where you can face off against hundreds of enemies and bosses and be fine with careful play, only to get invaded and die instantly from a pulse rifle across the map, from someone you never even saw. Sleeper Stimulant is about to get nerfed because its too easy to invade and murder people with it, so now everyone gets punished.

I hate the Crucible. I actively resent being made to interact with it at all. I like playing Destiny, and PvP is now a different, far less interesting or engaging game.