What's your opinion on Bungie removing content?

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Panfoot

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So along side all the new expansions Bungie announced, they also announced they will be rotating content in and out of the game, of which you can read the full details here. The short version is in September when the new expansion comes out, Europa (New) and the Cosmodrome (Destiny 1) will be added into the game and Io, Titan, Mercury, Mars, Leviathan will be removed(that includes not only the destinations but also strikes, campaign missions, and raids, exotic quests will be given alternatives). As someone who approaches the game as just a FPS guy who likes to jump on, play some strikes and explore for a bit after long breaks in playing, this makes me want to permanently delete the game and forget it ever existed. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this, especially coming from a more MMO perspective(which I'm completely ignorant on, my MMO history starts and ends with Guild Wars 1).

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Sweep

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#2 Sweep  Moderator

I think if you click through to their website they spell it out pretty clearly with their first bullet point:

Destiny 2 is too large to efficiently update and maintain.

Which 100% makes sense. If you have a team working on an amount of content which grows consistently over a long period of time, while player base and developer team size remain consistent, at some point it's not going to be economically viable to continually keep everything up to date. You're going to spread your developers too thin and the entire game will suffer as a result.

I appreciate that it sounds extremely upsetting to have paid for content which is no longer permanently available, but rather than just having access to the same stale content forever, cycling out each batch of planets and missions with different ideas and setups will firstly keep the playerbase focused and secondly allow them to experiment with new content in small concise batches rather than broad vague ones. I also think they're pretty much doing this already with strike playlists and that a lot of the content that's going to get cycled out won't be missed as much as you think it will.

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OurSin_360

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#3  Edited By OurSin_360

I think it's garbage and might kill the game(or at least cut the playerbase in half) as 100% of the content is what you get as a f2p game. I have no desire to play any destiny 1 stuff as that game was bad lol. They are taking out 4 destinations and replacing them with 2 (one you have to buy for 40$).

Also, if you have any interest in the story you pretty much lose all context as to wtf is going on in the game. So any new players won't know wtf is going on even more so than they did when they went f2p.

They should have just made destiny 3, the season content is 90% bad anyway and they could just kill destiny 1 and use those servers for 3. Or they could just kill destiny 1 and use those to hold the new content or whatever.

Bungie just makes extremely, extremely bad decisions. But maybe I am way off and this will bring destiny 2 back to the for front. The darkness stuff seems real cool, but honestly, how long will we have it before they just delete it to add in some other shit?

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Panfoot

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#4  Edited By Panfoot

@sweep: I can see their reasoning for it, but I think it's just piling on more issues onto a system that's already kinda of a behind the seasons mess to begin with from the sounds of it, though then again given the position they are in maybe there just isn't really a good solution(I suppose making a clean break with a new game that is easier to work on technically for a game of this scale just isn't something they can do as an independent studio). Just kinda seems like the antithesis to their F2P move of trying to get new players in and will end up appealing to only the most hardcore Destiny fans, but how long is that hardcore playerbase sustainable?

I totally get it on the hard drive size perspective though, I've got Hitman 2 with all the Hitman 1 levels taking up 152 gigs on my PC and can't really decide am I really done yet, just that could be so many other installed games...

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Efesell

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This sounds completely understandable and also like a load of hot garbage. I do not envy those making the decisions.

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navster15

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I have to think that the sunsetting of weapons and locations is part of the larger push in the free-to-play direction. And I’m ok with that, so long as it means that expansions are now free. It’s so cool that I can get my casual friends to play Destiny with me now, but it sucks that they can’t join me in certain content due to a paywall. I’d like Destiny to go down the pay for cosmetics only model, which seems like the path they’re going down given transmog is now in the pipeline.

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NexivSelecaf

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#7  Edited By NexivSelecaf

Ah, well, that's a, hmm... I mean, I guess, ah... So maybe I should, ah...

...Fuck.

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conmulligan

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#8  Edited By conmulligan

The more I think about it the more I hate it. I understand the rationale behind rotating content in and out, but if this is the path they want to take then it's completely unacceptable for them to also charge $40 for an expansion that's on a ticking clock, especially when they're already pulling in cash from season passes and micro-transactions. This whole thing just seems like a way to draw more and more money out of a shrinking player base that they know is starved for content. I think Beyond Light sounds cool, but there's absolutely no way I'm paying $40 for something that may be inaccessible within a year or two.

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sparky_buzzsaw

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#9  Edited By sparky_buzzsaw

I want Bungie to do whatever the hell they want. Desiny 2 isn't really my thing, but I've gotta imagine if any developer knows long-term what they need to do with an online shooter(ish), it'd be Bungie, and given that all reports seem to say Activision wanted more and more of the same, I want to see what they can do without their chains. I say give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Hayt

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As someone that only very casually plays free to play that seems like 70% of the content I have access to haha.

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inevpatoria

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It has the potential to set an extremely disquieting precedent and for that reason alone it's difficult to be comforted even by Bungie's justification.

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Onemanarmyy

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#12  Edited By Onemanarmyy

hmm... hard one.. Personally i would never jump into a game that takes away that which i pay for, but i can see why they have to do this. But for the players this just sucks. i keep thinking back to Trackmania's 'this is not a subscription, you just need to pay multiple times to keep playing' aspect when people talk about content being on a timer. But at the same time Destiny is sort of MMO-ish and those games tend to come with monthly subscription costs which quickly makes them more expensive than Destiny to play i imagine. So maybe if you're a person that took the route that got you the most content for the least amount of $, this is somewhat acceptable?

Don't get me wrong, it still sounded pretty expensive to stay 'up-to-date' with Destiny and from what i've heard of the Destiny talk around this site, it doesn't always seem like you get the best experience from being up to date because it's sort of a messy game and they constantly shift things around to make it a better experience.

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Humanity

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#13  Edited By Humanity

I posted about in the past when they did it with incremental things like strikes and no one cared back then, and people will continue to not care now.

@sweep said:

I appreciate that it sounds extremely upsetting to have paid for content which is no longer permanently available..

This is something that cannot be understated enough. In the past they have locked base players out of strikes and such because they bundled them into expansion content, in a very sly way winking and nodding that you should just buy the DLC already. Now they are going to lock away, what seems like a good 2/3 of the game, in service of introducing more content for you to buy.

The technical problem is very real, and quite frankly of their own making, but the solution is being shouldered onto the consumer. Very convenient for them, less so for the player. The age old argument of "well if you've been playing 100 hours of this game you aren't visiting those zones anyway" doesn't matter, it should always be there, and as mentioned above this continues to setup a rather nasty precedent going forward for other developers to conveniently silo off portions of a game you already paid for.

The entire structure of Destiny has been a slow moving car wreck that they've been trying to right in various degrees of success for years now. It really seems like instead of continuing to tug at the steering wheel while the car is already rolling down the hill they should have made a clean break and developed a brand new Destiny that has the infrastructure to sustain the type of game it has evolved into.

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aWidebrant

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Speaking as someone that's been playing a lot of Destiny 2 since it came out on PC, I'm OK with shrinking the game world by a few destinations.

Bungie has chosen to make Destiny a live game, and this is a necessary cost of keeping it living.

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MerxWorx01

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@humanity: Destiny in many ways always felt like a "New Coke vs Old Coke" Situation. Given a long enough time line all the things they've removed will be added back slightly modified and will be given the fanfare of a developer listening to it's playerbase and gifting players something they've been asking for/upset about.

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Sweep

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#16 Sweep  Moderator

@humanity: You're not wrong, but neither am I; it's going to come down to numbers. I'm sure if they had a continually growing playerbase that would support a continually growing team of devs, then that would be fine - but at this point in the life of the game I'd expect the playerbase to have plateau'd (or at the very least average out at a plateau, with spikes of activity around each DLC/content update) with a consistent overhead which doesn't justify employing artists and tech support simply to maintain chunks of the game which aren't seeing a lot of activity. You'd assume they've chosen these zones in particular after looking at player feedback and activity levels and have decided that it's not worth currently investing in areas of the game where they'll only ever see diminishing returns. Sure you can argue that "we've paid for it and we're entitled to it" but from an economic standpoint the only cost effective way to maintain that is if they stopped supporting the game entirely and just left it in it's current state. Legitimate question, would that be preferable?

Also I agree that it fuckin' sucks that digital products and services are essentially only ever leased to consumers at the discretion of the service provider, and it's a very real issue that's going to haunt us long into the future and over far more than videogames. Try reading the T&C's on the google store sometime, it's dystopian as fuck.

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Humanity

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@merxworx01: At this point I'm pretty sure Coke could come out and say their new flavor is so intense they can only fit half as much of it in the can, because thats just how their cans are built, and people would shrug and say "well yah makes sense I do want to experience the new taste, thats just the price for innovation."

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Charongreed

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Having put 2000+ hours into Destiny, this sucks a mountain of ass. Losing content in a game that demands so much repetition of the same content over and over again, removing some of it means you're going to see even less of it more often. If this was a scenario where they were saying 'there's a lot of bloat in these areas, we're going to start cycling out content and work on it when it isn't live, and then re-add it again later' then that would be totally forgivable. But this is just more poor design being covered over by 'technical issues'. If Destiny was a great game that didn't have 1/3 of the design problems, then I would happily devote 200 gigs to it. Instead, every time I download something new I eye it and wonder if today is the day I never touch Destiny again. Coupled with sunsetting weapons and armor (also because of poor long-term design), incredibly poor server performance (Crucible has felt like a broken free to play shooter for more than a year), and now two years of incredibly poor seasonal releases, Destiny has gone from a great shooter with some janky design to a burning wreck that plays alright when the game isn't constantly disconnecting.

Too bad they don't have access to support studios, funding from a major publisher and experienced server staff, but then they would have to release expansions annually and try to support new players. But it'll probably make Datto happy, and that's really what counts.

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conmulligan

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@sparky_buzzsaw said:

I want Bungie to do whatever the hell they want. Desiny 2 isn't really my thing, but I've gotta imagine if any developer knows long-term what they need to do with an online shooter(ish), it'd be Bungie

How anyone can look at the last few years of Destiny and still give Bungie the benefit of the doubt is beyond me. I hope you're right though!

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hughj

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I've been on the fence with devoting any more time into Destiny as it is, never mind paying more money. The prospect of having old content pulled devalues the money I've already spent, and puts an asterisk next to anything they're asking me to buy in the future.

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MezZa

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As a casual destiny player who comes and goes depending on when I'm feeling like playing a sci-fi shooter, have to say that I'm not happy about the idea of content getting pulled. Makes me feel like I need to make a new character and rush to experience those missions before they go away because what if I get the itch to play and they aren't there. And likewise makes me doubly hesitant to buy anything considering I'm basically just paying $40 to have access to it for as long as bungie wants to grant me access to it. No thanks.

But hey, less harddrive space taken up is nice. Know what else would help me take up less space? Uninstalling destiny, so I guess thanks for pushing me one step closer to that?

Personally I'd rather see a Destiny 3 than this. I've never bought into the idea that our characters should be permanent and with us forever and that it would be impossible to satisfy destiny 2 players going into a destiny 3.

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Panfoot

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@humanity said:

In the past they have locked base players out of strikes and such because they bundled them into expansion content, in a very sly way winking and nodding that you should just buy the DLC already.

I just remembered they have been pulling that since Halo 3, I remember jumping back on when ODST was announced I booted 3 back up to play some multiplayer after dropping it before any of the map packs released(funnily enough I dropped it because they removed my favorite mode from matchmaking) only to find I could play Slayer and Team Slayer, and that's it. Every objective mode, 8 vs 8 mode, every non traditional mode was all locked now. Sure I could technically still do custom games, but that would require me to go find 7-15 more people on the drop of a dime to play with outside of the game.

There are a lot of times I just really wish the people responsible for the shooting/movement and the people responsible for the art design all just went to some other studio...

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takayamasama

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I can't speak too deeply regarding Destiny, I have only ever played it very casually and don't think I like Destiny 2 very much at all, but when a game removes content it fractures the experience and the game never recovers from it. Even if you still enjoy it after, there is always this nagging feeling reminding you that, if you ever would want to for whatever reason, you can no longer experience the "full" package of the game.

After 14 years, it's one of my most hated things about World of Warcraft's trajectory. From big, un-revertible changes like the Cataclysm world re-vamp, to small ones such as removing the legendary item questlines from Warlords or Pandaria, content is never removed in a way that makes the world feel good nor make any narrative sense. Thankfully they have improved their technology and have good phasing now, which allows for new version of older maps to serve the narrative, but losing the old stuff forever just lessened the feeling of Azeroth as a living "world", and that feeling will never go away.

I fear that people that love Destiny as I love WoW will experience similar feelings if Bungie removes content to serve their future visions. It's a real bummer of a feeling and I don't wish it upon any fan of a game.

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someoneproud

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#24  Edited By someoneproud

I was just about to jump in and get all the Destiny 2 stuff when I heard this... I won't be bothering if I can't get the full original content, how they keep adding stuff to it doesn't concern me if I can't play the stuff they've already released.

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Justin258

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I jumped off the Destiny 2 ship later last year. I started getting back into it about halfway through the year, played a ton of it by myself and with my brother, and had a great time. I love the way it plays and looks and could spend ages doing stuff in that game.

However, this is one of a handful of games I have spent over a hundred dollars on, through buying the base game at launch and expansions later on. And I was still being asked to spend more, on microtransactions and expensive yearly expansions. That stuff pushed me away. And now they're removing content, supposedly not permanently but removing it nonetheless. A few months ago Ubisoft released a 70gb patch for Siege and Modern Warfare is like 175gb in size now, so don't tell me that 25gb patches aren't feasible. People who like the game will dedicate time and bandwidth to that patch, but you gotta deliver customer service without making people feel like this one game wants all of their fucking money.

What I'm saying is, Destiny 2 really, REALLY needs to take a page out of Warframe's book.

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Th3irdEye

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I don't get how they think it's OK to take away content that I paid for. Basically most of the base game and first two expansions are being ripped out of the game. I just don't get it. How is that OK? Also wasn't the whole point of Destiny 2 that they wouldn't have to do this? Like Destiny 1 was originally supposed to be a 10 year endeavor and when they announced Destiny 2 they said they had to move on from D1 because it was getting too hard to maintain with their current tech and in order to support a game that they can build on for much longer they would have to make their tech better and build a brand new game on that. Now here we are once again at the 3 year mark and they are giving us the exact same excuses only this time I can't go back to the old game to play the old content. It's just gone instead. So what happened to all that talk about updating their tech to prevent this? Either they are incredibly incompetent or they are straight lying to us. I'm not sure which is worse.

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conmulligan

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#27  Edited By conmulligan

@th3irdeye said:

Also wasn't the whole point of Destiny 2 that they wouldn't have to do this? Like Destiny 1 was originally supposed to be a 10 year endeavor and when they announced Destiny 2 they said they had to move on from D1 because it was getting too hard to maintain with their current tech and in order to support a game that they can build on for much longer they would have to make their tech better and build a brand new game on that. Now here we are once again at the 3 year mark and they are giving us the exact same excuses only this time I can't go back to the old game to play the old content. It's just gone instead. So what happened to all that talk about updating their tech to prevent this? Either they are incredibly incompetent or they are straight lying to us. I'm not sure which is worse.

This is a good point. By the end of this year, we'll have an absurd situation where you can still play most of Destiny 1's content, but Destiny 2 will have been gutted.

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devise22

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Man, just....yikes. I can't think of a more notable example honestly of a game with as much...identity crisis as the Destiny franchise, truly. I jumped off the wagon just after beating D2's story, not due to any part to lack in quality more because roadmap wise it seemed headed to similar problems as the first game.

Regardless, like...what? Someone said it above, but the idea that you'll effectively be able to play content from Destiny 1 but not be able to play several of the wholesale planets or content from base D2 is kind of crazy. But I have said it since the first game launched and it remains even truer as the future of this series goes on but the question of "Does this game want to be an MMO or not?" remains this awkward unanswered albatross.

Obviously, as it stands to the health and quality of the current game what they are doing makes sense. It's just so obvious when they constantly have to contradict themselves and literally bulldoze over the game that whomever planned their roadmaps had no idea what was going on. No real future planning whatsoever. I don't know if it was because of marketing reasons or what but this game should of never been a disc based thing with sequels, clearly. It should of been an MMO from the beginning, they'd of avoided several of these problems and lots of fan backlash if they had just admitted that. Which is so wild that now...all these years later they are weirdly turning the game into this like Frankenstein version of what it once was with, ideally a better pipeline in place to be creative with constant frequent updates as opposed to "traditional" game style DLC and the like.

At the end of the day though you can't really fault the devs wholesale for what this all is. It's pretty much on whomever was in charge of figuring out the structure and roadmapping what Destiny was to be. That said, I don't know at some point just for a stable long term structure perhaps you can just admit "yo the Blizzard model is there." People would of paid a yearly fee to play Destiny, people would of been fine with large content updates in new planets/solar systems while base old planets had different content. Like isn't it wild that Destiny consistently has been a game that has some of the best actual content you can engage with but is always seemingly struggling within it's own concepts and idea's in regards to the structure and pipeline of that content?

Anyway, here's hoping that for the people still playing the live game and people playing it going forward that these changes give you the best experience your looking for. That said I think people have a right to be miffed that the further development of the game comes at a cost to a lot of what the game was to begin with. Who knows though, perhaps Bungie may intend on releasing some of the original D2 story and base planet content more disconnected from the "live game" on it's own down the road. It's tough to say, they'll still have that content stored somewhere presumably so it's not like it's never to see the light of day.

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Onemanarmyy

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#29  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I keep hearing Jeff G's voice in my head when i think about Destiny. About how they wanted to make this decade-spanning franchise where you craft your own story, your character being tied to you all the way through these games. People see your crazy gun and are like WOAH... what the fuck is that thing? And then you do the 'gather around the firecamp children, for i have a story to tell ya' thing and share your amazing stories in this digital world.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't feel like that aspect of the game ever really worked out as well as they wanted? Now that they're not married to keeping all the content alive, why not create a Destiny 3 and keep the content of Destiny 2 inside Destiny 2? Naturally it would cost way more to produce a new game than to keep adding content to an existing structure, but it's kinda wild that they're willing to delete their previous work to do so. Imagine game-design students in 2080 looking back on this widely successful franchise from the 2017-2027 period and the 2nd entry being a complete mess because all the starter stuff is gone. Not being able to play the game and come away with the intended storyline being told to you.

I also thought it was kind of lame that 'telling people about your cool gear' was pushed so heavily. That just sounds like bragging to others why you have cool stuff and no, they can't get the same cool thing because it was a timed event. sorry bruh. As an outsider, the only somewhat cool gear story coming out of Destiny was the loot cave exploit. Not something that Bungie actively designed to be a cool gear origin-story.

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Fistoh

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I guess I get it, but it's totally bizarre.

I initially played D2 on PS4 and then went back recently when it came to Steam; the way they present that original content wasn't the best and didn't really fit in with how that game was reworked, and also any semblance of a progression to that story was completely removed, but to think now the original story and a lot of that original game is pretty much completely wiped is crazy.

Especially considering that if they were intending for D2 to be this perpetual service-thing then problems like the one's they're ostensibly having should have been accounted for from the start

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whitegreyblack

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I'll just chalk this up as a another in a long, long line of ... questionable decisions from Bungie over the past several years.

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bigsocrates

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I feel bad for people who bought the game recently and haven't gone through all the content they wanted to see, and future buyers who haven't been told about this, but I also feel like it makes me even more confident about my decision not to get into Destiny 2.

I loved the gameplay and graphical style of Destiny 1, and hated everything else about that game. From the terrible drop rate and the fact that your engrams could decode to lower level equipment to the fact that the story wasn't in the game and didn't make sense outside of it either, to the fact that the game wanted you to grind the same content over and over and over to make progress but did not facilitate looking for groups for the raids, I just felt like Bungie was making a game that was emphatically not for me, outside the gunplay and the atmosphere, which would have been more than enough to make me happy with that game if the rest of it didn't repel me.

D2 seemed like it got some of its shit together but I just didn't trust that team not to make weird and player-unfriendly decisions repeatedly so I held off until it was going to be content complete and then I was going to get the ultimate edition thing and go through all the content. Now that's never going to happen, so I'll never play the game.

Frankly my experience with Destiny 1 turned me off to games as a service, and this turns me off even further. I frequently play games way way after I buy them. I picked up the Ratchet and Clank collection in 2012 and I just played the second game this year...and loved it. I bought The Darkness in like 2009 and finished it in October of last year. The idea that you'd be unable to play content you bought for a game while that game is still in active development and they are trying to sell you more stuff is just unacceptable to me, especially when it destroys the story of the game, which is something I care about.

I love the Bungie Halos and I even played Marathon back in the day, but I can't see myself buying any more of their games. They still know how to make amazing shooting, but everything else just seems like bullshit.

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TheHende92

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Well the short answer is I don't envy any developer that has to navigate games with this amount of largess attached to it.

The long answer: I'm neutral about this news and interested to see how this new content model jives with long time players and newcomers alike. I've been playing Destiny since the beta of Destiny 1 and for the most part have enjoyed the games, warts and all. I'm not a consistent day in day out player though. When a new expansion comes out, I play the new content for about a month and then bounce to something else.

The loss of Activison as a publisher absolutely has to be intertwined with this. The ridiculous amount of capital that the publisher has would have allowed a staff buildup to continually churn out new content throughout D2. Granted, Activision would have already pivoted Bungie to Destiny 3 by now. I'm happy for Bungie and the people that work there that they chose to go the independent studio path but this new content route may be a direct consequence of that action. I would eventually like to see Bungie embrace the free to play model with expansions, and charge for cosmetics, emotes, etc. That way they're not constantly splintering their community behind gated expansion paywalls. I lean toward giving Bungie a chance on this and playing the Europa expansion in the fall.

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Ginormous76

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As someone who played all of the Year 1 content, and just bought the on sale pass for Years 2 & 3 a couple weeks ago, I would be really upset to suddenly not be able to play that content. I guess I can understand the reasoning, but not for me. After playing the new content for a few hours though, I think I'm done with D2 anyways. Probably works just fine for people who main D2 though.

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plan6

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It really depends on how they revive the content when they bring it out of the vault. It could be fun to content rotated out and in for difference seasons. I can envision people being pumped for the return of a raid or strike or whatever with rewards was season.

But as a whole I have no problem with content being sunset. It stinks, but I would rather have new content that is tight and fresh than a vast corpse of old content I don’t play.

As for retiring guns, I love being forced out of my comfort zone.

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OurSin_360

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I have to think that the sunsetting of weapons and locations is part of the larger push in the free-to-play direction. And I’m ok with that, so long as it means that expansions are now free. It’s so cool that I can get my casual friends to play Destiny with me now, but it sucks that they can’t join me in certain content due to a paywall. I’d like Destiny to go down the pay for cosmetics only model, which seems like the path they’re going down given transmog is now in the pipeline.

the expansions are 50bux

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SSully

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It’s reasonable. Not only is it effort for them to maintain, it is a problem for players. Last time I played last year, the game took up over 150GBs of space on my drive. If they keep everything indefinitely, this is going to continue to balloon and become unsustainable.

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Simmse

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#38  Edited By Simmse

I think it's insane, they're painting removing content and then cycling it back in as padding as a good thing. This is basically only a good thing for people who religously play it. I understand why they think its the correct thing to do i just the entire concept of it kind of blows me away.

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mikewhy

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I haven't played much Destiny outside of a demo for the first game, so feel free to ignore this.

TBH this makes me both disinterested in Destiny and worry about Bungies abilities to manage any game of this size. From stories that the tooling the developers had to work with for the first game were abysmal ("“Let’s say a designer wants to go in and move a resource node two inches,” said one person familiar with the engine. “They go into the editor. First they have to load their map overnight. It takes eight hours to input their map overnight. They get [into the office] in the morning. If their importer didn’t fail, they open the map. It takes about 20 minutes to open. They go in and they move that node two feet. And then they’d do a 15-20 minute compile. Just to do a half-second change.”". https://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731). To now this, that the company obviously hasn't scaled large enough, or did without also considering maintenance, just sends off a bunch of red flags to me as a developer.

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jagerxbomb

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#40  Edited By jagerxbomb

I'd be ok with it if they left the raids alone. They made a good point when they said 0.5% of players play Mars content, yet it takes up 5% of the resources. That was just an example, I'm sure there are more.

Once you get to soft level cap strikes and other activities that aren't the latest raid or newest endgame since last september are completely pointless; you don't gain anything from them. So yeah, take that stuff out, that's fine. The raids though, leave those alone.

Also, for everyone saying cut losses and make D3, it was mentioned on the Bombcast that in order to do that, D2 would basically be abandoned for 3 years while they made that. They don't have Activision's studios to help anymore. And to be honest, the content some of those made wasn't good (Curse of Osiris).

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Panfoot

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I'd be ok with it if they left the raids alone. They made a good point when they said 0.5% of players play Mars content, yet it takes up 5% of the resources. That was just an example, I'm sure there are more.

I think it's kind of by design though, if you want to play any of the campaigns you have to go to a specific NPC in the tower to start them, and the game doesn't tell you this at all. All the veteran players already beat that stuff but I would be willing to bet a lot of newer plays have zero clue it even exist.

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jagerxbomb

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The New Light people get a different beginning than Vanilla D2, they start at the Cosmodrome. Their story starts with Shadowkeep.

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colourful_hippie

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I totally get the need to have a more efficient update pipeline but as a consumer my main hope is that them saying they don't need to make a Destiny 3 means that they plan on removing old content so that they can introduce new content that will be on a whole different level like you would expect in a sequel but instead they will be able to put it into the D2 package without having to worry about breaking old content. All of this still has to be proven though and I'm honestly not 100% sold on it either.

Let's be honest, if they don't start putting in things like new enemy types that aren't just some bullshit reskinned old dudes like the snow hive on Mars then this whole effort will leave a bad taste in my mouth.

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NeoCalypso

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#44  Edited By NeoCalypso

So...correct me if I'm wrong here. There is a large(like seriously four planets & Leviathan plus their related content is like half the damn game at this point) amount of content going away that a lot of people paid money to access, and the only way to get the new content that will be replacing it is to spend even more(Fifty dollars!?!) money?

Like ok I know that the game is free now and there are plenty of people who didn't spend money to get access to that stuff...but who gives a shit. I did and I'm sorta confused as to why this shouldn't be infuriating.

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Sweep

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#45 Sweep  Moderator

@humanity said:

@merxworx01: At this point I'm pretty sure Coke could come out and say their new flavor is so intense they can only fit half as much of it in the can, because thats just how their cans are built, and people would shrug and say "well yah makes sense I do want to experience the new taste, thats just the price for innovation."

That is not at all what I said. If you expand the amount of assets that need to be maintained but the profits don't cover expansion of your development team to match them, what's the solution?

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Humanity

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@sweep said:
@humanity said:

@merxworx01: At this point I'm pretty sure Coke could come out and say their new flavor is so intense they can only fit half as much of it in the can, because thats just how their cans are built, and people would shrug and say "well yah makes sense I do want to experience the new taste, thats just the price for innovation."

That is not at all what I said. If you expand the amount of assets that need to be maintained but the profits don't cover expansion of your development team to match them, what's the solution?

Well I can't really answer that honestly. I'm not a developer so I don't know how many resources are actually needed to maintain content that isn't being actively worked on. How much work does go into "maintaining" earlier parts of the storyline? From my understanding they aren't pro-actively going back and adding anything to those areas, but I don't know how that works. I also don't know how big Bungie is at the moment or what their income looks like. While Microsoft retains intellectual property rights of Halo do they still see proceeds from sales of that series? From what I saw online Bungie is about 600 people as of 2019, is that an insignificant number of people to maintain a single game? That varies from game to game so who knows?

So while I wasn't calling you out specifically with that statement, I was pointing out a rather troublesome trend for people to just accept this sort of anti-consumer behavior at face value. Ultimately it is not my job to know how to fix Bungie's technical problems. They chose this course of action and it's not a great solution, and people should call it out instead of meekly accepting it. People in this thread have pointed out numerous issues with how this "solution" could backfire on different types of players. What if Street Fighter grew it's roster so big that they needed to take out a few of the least played characters the next update because their development team could no longer maintain those assets? This sort of thing wouldn't go over well anywhere else.

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ThePanzini

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The problem I've always had with Destiny is none of the content is deigned with replayability in mind the campaign missions being the worst, if Bungie adds more free content like Forsaken and cycles out older stuff to adjust then I don't see an issue.

However its been a while since I logged into Destiny and it was the definition of screen vomit, two dozen icons and no idea what or where to go. This alone stops me from jumping back in.

Given Destiny's carrot chasing nature I bet a ton of the early content is mostly skipped.

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xbob42

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I think if your game is so fucked you can't continually add content without taking content away (something which I literally can't even think of in any other game, so acting like it's a generic "too big and complex" problem seems disingenuous, there are bigger and more complex games out there) then you need to smash the foundation with a sledgehammer and start over. From all I've seen over the years, their engine or their tools or whatever are absolutely terrible, and while they may or may not have improved (No way for me to know as an end-user) this tells me in no uncertain terms that they not only haven't improved, but have hit their limit.

I feel like it'd be a great time to start building Destiny 3, or a foundational rework of Destiny 2. Maybe I'm in the minority, but selecting planets from what is, when you get right down to it, a menu functionally identical but somehow slower than a 2D Mario overworld, is the lamest way to do a persistent online game. You always log back in at that map screen, you always have to deal with so many loading screens, they couldn't even go the Phantasy Star Online route of giving you a tiny bit of control during said loading screens to keep your fingers busy, and getting in and out of a world is a pain in the ass.

Maybe the things I just said contribute to the claimed complexity and size of the title, but in my opinion, they'd be better off just reworking how travel to other worlds in the game functions. I don't know what that would look like, but they're smart guys and gals, I think they can manage better than a big goofy planet select menu with a slow fake mouse cursor. At least on the PC version I get a real mouse cursor, which doesn't help all the menu transition animations very much...

The game just seems bogged down on multiple levels so hard that even if I was being super generous, I couldn't consider this a band-aid fix. In my opinion it dramatically hurts the game and makes it look like a busted amateur project, and offers absolutely nothing to the end-user in return. Hey guys, there'll be less content. Have fun trying to spin that into a positive!

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MezZa

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#49  Edited By MezZa

The more time I've had to think about it since this announcement the more I feel like Destiny has been a doomed concept ever since they gave their fanbase the idea that they'll never have a year without Destiny content and they'll never have to lose their character or gear again throughout this fantastical continuously evergrowing experience. That very idea itself hamstrings destiny from fixing itself. Maybe it would have worked with better groundwork, but now that they're at the point where they're cycling entire chunks of content out of the game because the fanbase doesn't want to wait for them to take a break to make a new Destiny with better resources it's pretty clear they overpromised and set a dangerous expectation to start with. I can only imagine there are some frustrated technical people on their end that want to course correct the technical framework of things but aren't being given the greenlight because it will destroy the business vision that the leaders have set for this game.

But, I don't know, I'm not their target market I suppose. My dream has never been the mmo model of games. I'm the type of gamer that enjoys a loot game until I've had my fill of it and then I'm ready for the fresh start in the sequel to that loot game. When I saw Diablo 4 I didn't think "well all of my characters and gear better be available!". I don't really dream about persisting a singular character over a decade of one loot game.

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clagnaught

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The day before this announcement, I played 6 strikes in the Vanguard playlist when I was doing my weekly stuff. The first two were The Corrupted. Two in the middle were chasing down The Fanatic. The last one was The Fanatic.

I’ve lost count of how many times The Spider talked about how he wanted a fair trade or why Failsafe is cutting off a connection.

I’m all in favor of them cycling stuff in and out. If I end up playing through all 3 years of expansions and every week or two I have to play the same missions multiple times, I will probably end up muting Destiny half the time I’m playing it, because it’s the same stuff and over. The stuff I brought up above are also strikes I like. I never want to go to Mercury again.

So yeah, I won’t mind if they take stuff in and out. Also I never played Destiny 1, so I wouldn’t mind seeing that content.