DmC: Definition Edition bombs internationally

The old Devil May Cry's kind of a dead duck now, right? The brains behind it are all at Platinum making Bayonetta which is effectively carrying on the concepts. Weirdly, I'm playing DmC and thinking about how I should finish Bayonetta.

Am I just stupid? I don't see how telling the percentages of the sales of DMC on each console is relevant at all.

@TechnoSyndrome: Numbers are confusing.

Well. That is still OK in my book! That is indeed less than stellar. But you know 8000 times a 1000 weeks is also 8 million! :P

@sethphotopoulos: Oh make no mistake, DmC Dante is a annoying shit bag. But while I do actually find the physical design obnoxious personally, it has nothing to do with what sucks about him. His character is just a douche bag. at least he comes around at the end though

Hopefully it incentivizes the next DMC developers to make a game where there's actually skill ceilings and good dialogue.

Except for that... yeah...

FUCK YOU

But seriously, with some exceptions, there were some witty, funny, and stylish scenes in the later DMCs, especially 4. They didn't take themselves seriously and they always had fun with themselves. Just take a look at this. It's wonderful.

@shindig: Not really. DMC3 and 4 wasn't really those guys. Kamiya made the first one, but was busy with Clover titles instead of doing 2 and 3. 4 was done by the Dragon's Dogma guys which is why the combat in that game was so good. DMC 5 is totally possible and if the rerelease of 4 sells anywhere decent it will probably happen.

Maybe people are just tired of buying games they have already bought and played before

@tru3_blu3: I really find it funny that people constantly trot out the "Fuck You" scene as proof that DmC's writing is bad. That's like the only ammo anyone ever brings to the table on that.

The PC version of DmC was so good that it was especially hard for me to justify $40 on another version, even if it is a game that I really enjoy.

I liked Ninja Theory's game more than anything Capcom has developed themselves in the last 5 years.

Trailers, previews, and the demo weren't enough? Before the release of the game it was known that there would be no lock on, it was going to run at 30 FPS, and the art direction/setting/characters were clearly visible. The mechanics of the combat system were already being explored by people that had played the game and they didn't like it.

How weren't the issues valid?

I didn't know this game existed at all.

well if it comes to PC, I'll give it a try.

So this is the alt account of that crazy guy from before that hated DmC? ahaha

(Oh god people saying the old DMC games had quality writing.... DMC fans are an interesting bunch).

As a big fan of the old DMC games, people claiming that they had some real great writing is completely blowing my mind. Those games are FULL of rough moments in writing. Awkward, tries way too hard with humor, Dante is the biggest friggin' dork in the world, the themes are clunkily handled at every turn, and several things just aren't handled well at all(hello, Nero's backstory). DMC1 and DMC2 are the biggest offenders in just straight up being bad. DMC3 is just super cheesy and goofy, and not always for the better. DMC4 is probably the most balanced out of the bunch, but even it has some really dumb stuff. Objectively, DmC is so much better in terms of writing, at least in terms of creating a cohesive universe/plot. It's a different tone, but much more consistent, and lacking in the cringe-worthy melodrama of the old games(though that is getting into more subjective territory, some people just enjoy melodrama). Though admittedly, a good chunk of that is probably due to translation.

On a side note, I really dislike this whole mindset that people have with certain series, like DMC and Resident Evil, that because they started out cheesy, they should stay that way in perpetuity. Why can't they become more serious? Why can't they evolve? I like that they are actually putting in an effort. But at the end of the day, there's room for both.

Or, you know. You could bring back the old aesthetic of the series. Along with the old Dante.

@demoskinos: How about none of the characters besides Dante's having any development? How about dick jokes before we go fuck with the dude whose kid we just killed? How about everything during the Succubus fight? How about the really dumb Twitter stuff at the end? The "FUCK YOU" just sticks out because it's just two characters yelling FUCK YOU back and forth. It's the biggest sign the story was made for 13 year olds that want to be cool. The problem isn't that exactly. The problem is how serious the story takes itself while doing these things. I don't think anybody can deny that a protagonist whose main response to everyone and everything is FUCK YOU is probably some preteens role model. The previous DMC games didn't have great writing or anything, but not one of them asked me to take them seriously besides 2 which is the worst in the series. They were just fun and dumb anime nonsense which is basically what people seem to like about Bayonetta, so I don't see how people can love Bayo's stupid nonsense story and not get at least some enjoyment out of DMC3 and 4.

Let's break this down.

Contrary to popular belief, Dante rarely swears in the game. The infamous "Fuck you" line? Brought about by an enemy, The Succubus, insulting the memory of Dante's dead mother. The Succubus is established as a crude person. She constantly swears, and never flinches at using gross language to instigate a confrontation. At their very first meeting the Succubus calls Dante's mother a whore, among other things, and then goes on to insult Dante. Understandably, Dante is upset. Less eloquent than classical Dante, DMC Dante is unable to come up with a witty response at the sudden attack, and only manages a simple "Fuck you". She responds in turn, to mock him. So while the "Fuck you" exchange is silly, when one looks at the characters and the circumstances it's understandable why the dialogue exchange occurs.

Other instances of Dante swearing are restricted to the scenes leading towards the boss fights. The bosses Dante encounters are part of a faction that essentially tore apart his family. They actively hunt him, and want to kill him. The bosses constantly insult Dante, constantly taunt and gloat. Dante, again, responds in kind. But something happens towards the later portions of the game. After becoming a member of Vergil's organization and befriending both him and Kat, Dante begins to mellow out. He makes lighthearted jokes ("Took longer than I thought. Church.") and starts to swear less and less. When he confronts Bob Barcas, Mundus' right-hand man, Dante has stopped using crude insults entirely. Instead, he makes cutting jibes that he knows will aggravate Barcas.

Dante grows as a character. He starts out with less wit than Classic Dante and, while never actually reaching peak Classic Dante levels, begins to work closer to that type of humour. He becomes a more composed and level-headed person. The only instance of his crude humour resurfacing is during the final confrontation with Mundus, when Dante is deliberately trying to goad Mundus into a frenzy so that he acts carelessly. Dante makes a dead baby joke for this express purpose. But his actual opinion in the scene where the demon baby is killed? He's furious. Dante is upset with Vergil for instigating the death, and calls his brother out on their actions, even threatening to leave the organization because of what he deems as a reprehensible act. It is only after Kat mediates their argument that the two brothers continue to work together.

The dick joke? It's Vergil that makes the joke. The scene leading up to the dick joke has Dante and Vergil working together to infiltrate Mundus' HQ. As they work their way through the building their opinions toward each other are cold - this is because it happens a few days after the demon baby dies. When they meet each other at the final rendezvous point, the two make some jokes in an effort to repair their relationship:

"I'm stronger."

"I'm smarter."

"I'm better looking."

Vergil makes a dick joke, completely out of character, because at that point in the game he is more concerned about his brother liking him than maintaining his pride. Like Dante, Vergil has grown as a character. Previously a pragmatist and a loner, he has slowly begun to appreciate having another half-breed like him as a friend. Dante feels likewise, and that's why he's willing to forgive the death of the demon baby.

Kat? Yeah, she's a flat character. But the Devil May Cry series has always been about Dante and Vergil. How much development did Trish and Lady get? Trish is probably the closest to receiving attention from the writers, but Trish also has the advantage of not being dead. I'm not exactly thrilled about a female lead serving solely as a vehicle for the male leads angst, but the fact of the matter is that Kat existed solely so that she could die for the drama.

DMC Dante is not a bad character. He isn't invincible like Classic Dante, he isn't as clever or as self-assured. DMC Dante is more flawed, more human. He is relatable. You don't have to be a pre-teen to relate to DMC Dante. Given more games I'm sure his character can be developed in ways not possible with Classic Dante.

I'm fine with people not liking the new Dante. I just wish they'd give him a fair chance.

I absolutely adore all the people who didn't buy this and just bitched that it wasn't more old Dante. Just listening to that cadre of insanity makes me just so happy to see all the rage it brought. Even more so that DmC was a great game they didn't get to experience.

It was on Playstation Plus like 6 months ago...

That's fucked up. Everything I understand about this version suggests it did all the right things to be what the fans wanted. Damn shame.

Full disclosure though. It never appealed to me.

@onlykris: I don't know why you're telling me Dante's has development when I straight up said he is the only one with development. You bring up Vergil's development which I'll agree is maybe more than I give it credit. I wasn't just talking about the Date character though. I was talking the writing as a whole. You mention he only uses that language against bosses that insult him, but what about that random probably human bouncer that he just punched out and wrote FUCK YOU on the dudes list? I might be wrong, but I think that happened after the Bob fight. I just think the general writing both scenario and character wise is bad and is hampered further by wanting me to take it seriously unlike past DMCs. Maybe Dante's character in DmC could've been good in later games, but I don't really want to find out with how much I disliked the first game for a number of reasons and I doubt we'll see it regardless based on its sales.

It such a good game, more duders should really pick it up!

Personally I'm hoping for a continuation of DMC4 rather than DmC. This is just because I liked the old dante better so I didn't go out and buy DmC because I was trying to do that thing that they tell you where you "vote with your wallet" even though I'm sure I would enjoy the gameplay in DmC I just like the characters better the old style. So that being said I'm going to buy DMC4SE on release and hopefully if that does well Capcom will see that fan response is leaning that way and they'll give me the continuation I want.

I feel we as fans of Devil May Cry, and just fans of good video games in general have done ourselves a huge disservice by the way some of us have carried on about whether DmC or DMC is the better direction for the franchise. DMC1 and DMC3 especially were fantastic games, if a little hokey, and DmC is also a god damn fantastic game.

I like DMC4 Dante more than new Dante, but I still reckon its tragic that Capcom took a risk that should have paid off considering the high quality of the end product.. and it just seemed to not? Supposedly anyway. I really want to see both series do well, but even I can't justify buying a re-release so soon after the original release.

I still have no idea why so many people lost their shit over that "fuck you" scene. It was fine.

@milkman: yeah seems like cheesy shit that has the same tone as, er, pretty much anything else i've experienced from DMC. Gave me a laugh.

I was going to write a similar response but looks like you took care of that. Basically, yeah, the relationship between the brothers in DmC was fantastic. It actually went places and unlike the original series you actually get to see Dante and Vergil in ways that are way more meaningful than just some throwaway exposition before a boss fight.

Saying that the two main characters in this game don't have any development to them is just an inane. And calling DmC Dante a pre-adolecent fantasy character while at the same time idolizing the Dante from the original series is legitimately one of the most baffling things I've seen relating to video game tribalism and fandom. They are two sides of the same coin.

Sounds like a DMC game to me. I'd also contend that DmC was plenty goofy and completely aware of it. I mean, it might not be your kind of stupid, but that doesn't make it serious. The whole different strokes/different folks schtick.

While we do the whole head-scratching thing about complaints old DMC fans have about DmC: I never got the complaints about new Dante being a douchebag. Old Dante was a totally obnoxious douchebag.

It felt like DmC Dante could never back up his attitude while the previous Dante was too powerful to give a fuck. The original is fun and the new one is more realistic. DmC Dante seemed more like a douche because he was confident and didn't seem like he deserved to be. DmC Dante gets closer to the original by the end of the game though. I think old Dante was really fun. Especially in 3&4.

@darkeyehails: Yeah I guess it is really stupid in the way that those summer blockbusters that take themselves seriously are stupid. I guess that technically makes it dumb. I guess whatever like what you like and I'll keep not liking what I don't like. I guess it does suck for the people that wanted more of this game probably won't have it, but I can't say I won't be happy if an actual DMC5 happens instead. Other than that there is literally nothing to say at this point. Let's all at least hope the DMC4SE sells well.

@jesushammer said:

If I recall Dante punches the bouncer before confronting Lilith inside her club, and wants to make a scene to draw her out of hiding. I'll admit leaving the "FUCK YOU" on the notepad was completely unnecessary on Dante's part (he could have just barged in and made a commotion on the dance floor) but I like to chalk it up to him trying to rile Mundus up. That is, Mundus was going to find out about his wife's kidnapping as per the plan, so I figured leaving the note at the scene of the crime is just Dante's way of taunting his opponent. But yes, Dante really didn't need to punch the man that was just doing his seemingly ordinary job.

I really wish they just launched DmC as a brand new series with its own cast of characters. I understand why they wanted to bank on the Devil May Cry name, but...well, here are the results. It really is a darned shame.

I wonder if they under shipped copies for some reason. This was impossible to find for me last week, with nowhere in my town getting it in stock, and even places like Amazon and ShopTo saying it was on back order.

@heartagram: If you enjoyed Bayonetta 2 then Metal Gear Rising: Revengence might be worth consideration. It's made by the same studio, features similar game play elements and you regenerate energy using your enemies vital fluids!

@nictel: @flstyle: Yeah, 8,000 isn't really much. That's really low numbers. I wasn't able to read the links but does it mention anywhere whether its enough that they could have made some money back with the combined total of sales?

I played it on PC originally so i've kind of already got this, the 60fps part anyway, i also didn't like the game enough to buy it a second time.
DMC4 however i'd gladly buy again... but i don't have a PS4 or Xbone, shame the update isn't coming to PC.

@humanity: Man, we went back and forth for what seemed like days only for me to finally realize he was trolling me. Learned a good lesson those few days and I wasn't even mad at him because god damn it he was good at it.

Trolling on forums is still pretty lame though, even if it's done exceedingly well. Like, why?

I really don't get the hate for this game.

Sure, I was one of the naysayers when the trailers first broke way back when, but after playing the game I had to be honest and admit it; the game is damn good. Really good, even.

The only things wrong with it were the things like lack of lock on, easy style system, etc. But this Definitive Edition fixes all of those, so with all those changes in mind....screw it, I'll say it; I think this game is the best Devil May Cry game of the lot. At the very least it's on a par with DMC3, and it absolutely defecates on DMC4 - I find it bizarre how everyone is more psyched for 4's re-release, because honestly that game was boring as hell by comparison.

DmC is just a much better game, period. The combat system is about 3 times more complex, and 3 times more FUN than any of the previous games.

The story isn't amazing, but it's Citizen Kane compared to DMC1-4. At least you can watch these cutscenes without wincing at the dialogue, and I actually cared more about what was going on than I did in any of the previous DMC games. DmC feels like an actual 'movie' for adults, whereas DMC1-4 felt like Saturday morning cartoons. Some prefer that kind of thing, but I for one don't.

I think it's criminal that this game has been treated this badly by gamers. It's an incredibly good game and yet people avoid it like it's got some kind of stigma. I hope people slowly realise just how stupid they've been about this game and that it eventually gets the recognition it deserves (and god willing, maybe even a sequel).

@maiden_ty_one said:

Apart from the 'fun' part, this is objectively wrong. DmC isn't a bad game, but it still doesn't hold a candle to DMC3 or 4 in terms of sheer gameplay complexity and speed. They reduced the weapon count in DmC, and made half of them so slow that they were virtually un-comboable. They removed style switching, reduced the move lists dramatically and made jump canceling both weapon/move-limited and extremely slow.

Loved the game and will probably get it when it is <$20