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Avatar image for patrickklepek
Posted by patrickklepek (6833 posts) -

UPDATE: Tweaked to reflect what's actually changing with Shadow Fiend. Thanks!

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Though Valve just wrapped up The International 4, the studio continues to tweak DOTA 2. The latest changes come from the Rekindling Soul update, otherwise known as version 6.82. It's significant.

First and foremost, Shadow Fiend has been dealt some changes, mostly aesthetically. Here's a summary of where he's (it's?) at:

No Caption Provided

There's an entire page that demonstrates the new and improved Shadow Fiend. Coinciding with Shadow Fiend's update is the availability of an arcana item set, which grants a different skin, voice, attack effects, and other ways of making your character stand out 'n look pretty.

Other changes include courier morph (which means your courier will be temporarily visually displayed), the launch of fantasy (a la fantasy football) season two, fight recap (providing a detailed statistical breakdown of matches), a new location for Roshan on the map, tweaked versions of Bloodseeker and Phantom Lancer, and a bunch of other changes that are better seen by reading the bottom of this page.

Because I don't know anything about Dota 2, I asked our expert, Mr. Shoemaker, for quick thoughts:

"This is the most radical stuff they've done to the fundamentals of Dota 2 since it came out. They're the kind of changes normal people would look at and roll their eyes--stuff like a handful of trees being in a different place. But changes like that just keep raising the skill ceiling because they give really good players a ton more options for ways to maneuver and strategize. The nature of these changes is tantamount to changing the length of a football field or the duration of a shot clock in basketball, except there isn't just one change, there's a ton of them."

Avatar image for zaapp1
#1 Posted by Zaapp1 (714 posts) -

We need a statement from Pro DOTA 2 player Dan Ryckert.

Avatar image for hammondoftexas
#2 Edited by hammondoftexas (1235 posts) -

Valve has been quite busy lately.

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#3 Edited by Relkin (1095 posts) -

Lot of interesting changes in here. Phantom Lancer looks like he'll be a lot more fun to play, and a lot of those new Scepter bonuses look real cool, and Riki's invisiblity is now a regular ability? Guess I'm going back to dota. Gotta see how all of this plays out.

Avatar image for katygaga
#4 Posted by KatyGaGa (626 posts) -

Jesus Christ. We're through the looking glass here, people.

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#5 Posted by Nightcrawlah (119 posts) -

New Bloodseeker is amazing. So much more fun to play now.

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#6 Posted by Dooley (353 posts) -

Two runes? Extra gold and XP from a rune? What in the hell is happening???

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#7 Posted by theuselessgod (339 posts) -

Man new PL is fun, and the doubling up on runes completely changes both mid and offlane game.

I haven't seen this big a change since the Dota 1 days. It's crazy.

Avatar image for theodacourt
#8 Edited by theodacourt (591 posts) -

@patrickklepek Well he hasn't really had much changed mechanically...just minor balance alterations like most heroes! The big change is aesthetic, and I think people voted for it during the international 4 via the compendium!

Avatar image for artie
#9 Posted by Artie (868 posts) -

Patrick, Shadow Fiend has not been changed mechanically. The image you've posted shows Shadow Fiend as he's been for the past three years. That's even the old-model, not the new one.

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#10 Edited by chilibean_3 (2361 posts) -

This update is kind of nuts. I think most of the changes will be good. Not sure about those rune changes yet.

And, yeah. Patrick, Shadow Fiend's model changed but how he plays just saw some minor balance tweaks like most of the heroes did. The heroes that have seen the most change are Phantom Lancer, Bloodseeker and Riki.

They're attempting to make Phantom Lancer play completely different and for different purposes. The Bloodseeker changes are...weird. It might take time playing with him to see how he works out. Dude might end up crazy strong. Riki is still trash.

Avatar image for smokyexe
#11 Posted by smokyexe (359 posts) -

Yeah this patch is something else.

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#12 Posted by Winternet (8447 posts) -

This article is so funny at so many levels.

Avatar image for jeldh
#13 Edited by Jeldh (521 posts) -

Shadow Fiend is the same. In fact his skills has been changed almost the least.

Also, you missed the most BREAKING NEWS:

"But we’re pretty sure we won’t be able to make enough progress on the larger update if we put it down to work on Diretide – so we’ve decided that we’re not going to ship a Diretide event this year"

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ So it begins.

Avatar image for joshwent
#14 Posted by joshwent (2897 posts) -

Man, that quote from Brad is pretty exciting by itself.

I wish any ounce of me was actually interested in playing DotA 2 because it seems like there's endless joy there if you're into it.

Avatar image for ben_h
#15 Posted by Ben_H (4170 posts) -

Largest change is definitely Dark Seer. I have a feeling that is going to have significant ramifications.

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#16 Posted by ripelivejam (13074 posts) -

oh man i have to sit down, i don't think i can handle all these radical changes.

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#17 Posted by Pete0r (267 posts) -

Presumably after looking at the stats for previous versions, they thought the Plays were either too Big or not Big enough?

I wonder if they will ever release a change that ends up splitting the player base so it ends up like rugby where there are two distinct styles of game played.

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#18 Posted by Ceramicsteve (31 posts) -

Dan Ryckert comments

"Oh they did some stuff with tanya, that's pretty cool."

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#19 Edited by D_Mac (125 posts) -

I came here just to read Brad's statement.

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#20 Posted by madmatt213 (340 posts) -

Icefrog basically changed the laws of physics yesterday.

Avatar image for yurimegumi
#21 Edited by yurimegumi (120 posts) -
No Caption Provided

HELLO DID SOMEONE MENTION A NEW PATCH

Avatar image for voodoopc
#22 Posted by VooDooPC (552 posts) -

Did these patch notes come inside a pizza??

Avatar image for xite
#23 Posted by xite (970 posts) -

Bloodseeker's new ability looks kind of amazing. It draws a giant elaborate eye out of blood on the ground and then explodes.

Avatar image for homelessbird
#24 Edited by Homelessbird (1617 posts) -

@pete0r: Arguably that already happened with the move to Dota 2.

Also I feel like the change that everybody is missing is TP price dropping to 100 gold

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#25 Posted by Homelessbird (1617 posts) -

@chilibean_3 said:

Riki is still trash.

At least he sounds like fun trash now.

Avatar image for fisk0
#26 Posted by fisk0 (6827 posts) -

@pete0r said:

Presumably after looking at the stats for previous versions, they thought the Plays were either too Big or not Big enough?

I wonder if they will ever release a change that ends up splitting the player base so it ends up like rugby where there are two distinct styles of game played.

Didn't that essentially happen when Heroes of Newerth and League of Legends spawned out of the original DOTA?

Moderator
Avatar image for yurimegumi
#27 Edited by yurimegumi (120 posts) -

@homelessbird: nah Riki was always trash, now he's just (less) invisible and more trash

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#28 Edited by KaneRobot (2774 posts) -

Daymn. Getting THE Brad Shoemaker to comment on a Giant Bomb story is a hell of a "get" for Patrick.

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#29 Edited by forteexe21 (2014 posts) -

I only read patch notes if they come in a pizza like EA.

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#30 Edited by Honkalot (1037 posts) -

@yurimegumi: How is he less invisible?

From what I understand he can now get permanent invisibility whenever he pleases from level 1. Fade times though I guess.

Avatar image for onemanarmyy
#31 Edited by Onemanarmyy (4106 posts) -

This update is bonkers. PL feels pretty different to play now, almost like a Spirtbreaker with short charges. Bloodseeker also feels more interesting, you actually have to pick moments when it's worth it to heal. And his AOE nuke gives him more options in teamfights. pretty cool.

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#32 Edited by jschlic (26 posts) -

The Roshan changes are insane! dropping the aegis timer to 5 minutes will force BIG PLAYS much faster after a Roshan kill

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#33 Posted by bistromath (752 posts) -

Counter Helix chance to activate increased from 17% to 20%!??!?!!?!?

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#34 Edited by Bicycle_Repairman (665 posts) -

Oh and we are just to assume that there is no correlation between the delay of the last dlc of dark SOULS (in which we where finally going to 'KINDLE' the first flame) and now valve coming out with a dota patch called REKINDLING SOUL. At the same time valve owns steam where i already got a season-pass for the dlc. And steam just changed it form! Like it crossed the sea and claimed the dark soul for its own.its even blue! like the sea or a really hot flame!

You are telling me there is nothing going on here! REALLY? THIS is why game journalism is dead! Valve is using the DARK SOUL to rekindle the ancients! Like those places don't look like there is a primal bonfire somewhere in there...

GAMES JOURNALISM IS DEAD

Avatar image for newmoneytrash
#35 Posted by newmoneytrash (2440 posts) -

Did they add controller support?

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#36 Posted by Slag (8149 posts) -

Man so many changes, so many!

they even changed damage types!

The Meta will be unrecognizable after this patch.

Avatar image for freakin9
#37 Posted by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

I don't know how you were able to secure a quote from Mr. Shoemaker, but congrats on the get.

Avatar image for yurimegumi
#38 Posted by yurimegumi (120 posts) -
Avatar image for enai
#39 Edited by Enai (266 posts) -

Shut the internet down!

Avatar image for rayeth
#40 Edited by Rayeth (1197 posts) -

Did they add controller support?

You do not want to play this game with a controller. It might be possible to play on a controller at a basic level, but in order to compete effectively the controller cannot possibly have enough precision to make all the tiny adjustments you need to be a strong player. Things like animation cancelling (useful in many ways including tricking opponents or reacting to immediate changes), queuing abilities, and other things like that would be outright impossible.

I think playing a game like dota might be possible with a controller (Drew said that iPad one was pretty good I think?), but actually playing Dota that way would be a terrible experience.

Avatar image for crono
#41 Edited by Crono (2762 posts) -
@rayeth said:

@tajasaurus said:

Did they add controller support?

You do not want to play this game with a controller. It might be possible to play on a controller at a basic level, but in order to compete effectively the controller cannot possibly have enough precision to make all the tiny adjustments you need to be a strong player. Things like animation cancelling (useful in many ways including tricking opponents or reacting to immediate changes), queuing abilities, and other things like that would be outright impossible.

I think playing a game like dota might be possible with a controller (Drew said that iPad one was pretty good I think?), but actually playing Dota that way would be a terrible experience.

Totally. Would have to be built from the ground up for consoles. But I honestly wonder if the experience would just become so compromised by making it more suitable for a controller that it would just end up being a rather "meh" game that makes console gamers think "I don't get the mass appeal this has on PC."

Avatar image for theodacourt
#42 Posted by theodacourt (591 posts) -
@crono said:
@rayeth said:

@tajasaurus said:

Did they add controller support?

You do not want to play this game with a controller. It might be possible to play on a controller at a basic level, but in order to compete effectively the controller cannot possibly have enough precision to make all the tiny adjustments you need to be a strong player. Things like animation cancelling (useful in many ways including tricking opponents or reacting to immediate changes), queuing abilities, and other things like that would be outright impossible.

I think playing a game like dota might be possible with a controller (Drew said that iPad one was pretty good I think?), but actually playing Dota that way would be a terrible experience.

Totally. Would have to be built from the ground up for consoles. But I honestly wonder if the experience would just become so compromised by making it more suitable for a controller that it would just end up being a rather "meh" game that makes console gamers think "I don't get the mass appeal this has on PC."

Well Magicka is based off Invoker from DotA, and that has controller support. I think GB played it like that on an UPF or something! Not sure how actually good it was though. I imagine it would control somewhat similar to that

Avatar image for theht
#43 Posted by TheHT (15785 posts) -

@pete0r: Arguably that already happened with the move to Dota 2.

Also I feel like the change that everybody is missing is TP price dropping to 100 gold

seems like they're really trying to incentivise more action with a lot of these changes.

Avatar image for thesoutherndandy
#44 Edited by TheSouthernDandy (4136 posts) -

AAAAALLRIGHT if someone other then Brad is gonna start covering DOTA then I bloody well expect coverage of League character updates @patrickklepek what about the new Shurima update and the lore changes hmm? Hmm?? Azir? The Scion update leak? The complete graphical overhaul of the map? What about THAT Patrick?? COLLUSION. #GamerGate

(I don't actually expect any of that to happen)

Avatar image for honkalot
#45 Edited by Honkalot (1037 posts) -

@yurimegumi: True.

On the plus side as long as there are creeps or heroes nearby you won't be able to hit him ever since he can blink strike around for days now.

Avatar image for rayeth
#46 Posted by Rayeth (1197 posts) -

Well Magicka is based off Invoker from DotA, and that has controller support. I think GB played it like that on an UPF or something! Not sure how actually good it was though. I imagine it would control somewhat similar to that

I have played Magicka. True it is based on Invoker from DotA. However, Invoker controls pretty differently than most DotA heroes, and even so with Magicka controls you simply cannot do nearly enough things to effectively play dota. The careful accurate positioning is paramount. Being able to start and stop your attacks, halt your current commands, blink in any direction instantly, etc. These things are just not possible with a controller AFAIK. Diablo 3 did a great job of adapting a game made for PC to consoles, but if you had a PC player vs a console player the result would be the same as if you tried to play Counterstrike with a 360 pad. It just doesn't work. The game would need to be totally re-designed to support that. Compared to what would be needed to support a controller, this patch is barely tinkering around the periphery. And since this is the biggest changes to DotA in 5 (!) years, that is saying quite a bit.

Avatar image for triumvir
#47 Posted by Triumvir (644 posts) -

All of my main characters got substantial buffs. Especially Warlock. His Ultimate ability was powerful before; now it is broke as fuck.

The changes to the map, the way runes work, and the way damage works are probably the most significant updates.

#newmeta

Avatar image for theodacourt
#48 Posted by theodacourt (591 posts) -

@rayeth said:

@theodacourt said:

Well Magicka is based off Invoker from DotA, and that has controller support. I think GB played it like that on an UPF or something! Not sure how actually good it was though. I imagine it would control somewhat similar to that

I have played Magicka. True it is based on Invoker from DotA. However, Invoker controls pretty differently than most DotA heroes, and even so with Magicka controls you simply cannot do nearly enough things to effectively play dota. The careful accurate positioning is paramount. Being able to start and stop your attacks, halt your current commands, blink in any direction instantly, etc. These things are just not possible with a controller AFAIK. Diablo 3 did a great job of adapting a game made for PC to consoles, but if you had a PC player vs a console player the result would be the same as if you tried to play Counterstrike with a 360 pad. It just doesn't work. The game would need to be totally re-designed to support that. Compared to what would be needed to support a controller, this patch is barely tinkering around the periphery. And since this is the biggest changes to DotA in 5 (!) years, that is saying quite a bit.

I guess that's true, but if people with controllers played against other controller people it would be balanced and I've never been good at fighting games but I'm sure some of those guys could get real good at twitchy dota things if they practiced!

Avatar image for spitznock
#49 Posted by Spitznock (1197 posts) -

But does it make the game good?

Avatar image for tonygxp
#50 Posted by tonygxp (39 posts) -

Patrick, you're a good writer but you shouldn't be writing about things you don't know or care about. Why isn't Brad writing this up?