Clarity and the search for more of it.

Hey guys. We're trying to fit in some time to lay down more effective wiki data editing guidelines and page styling techniques and since the "which games do you want to see on TNT?" discussion went so well (except for you lunatics who want Mount & Blade, of course), I figured I'd check in and ask you guys about what you'd like to see addressed.

Hey guys. We're trying to fit in some time to lay down more effective wiki data editing guidelines and page styling techniques and since the "which games do you want to see on TNT?" discussion went so well (except for you lunatics who want Mount & Blade, of course), I figured I'd check in and ask you guys about what you'd like to see addressed.

I'd say that two headers that most pages should have would be "story" and "gameplay." For fighting games, I think my Samurai Shodown II page might be a good start, egotistical as that sounds.

Just one thing really that I would like to see or an answer as to why this rule exists. I like to talk to another user on here and we are forced to do so via PM rather than via the wall as when I reply sometimes I will get an "you may not reply more than twice" error message. I am just wandering why this is not an unlimited thing (I mean I could understand if it was spam but we tend to discuss games, Giantbomb, films etc but it gets frustrating to do so when we get into a good converstation and the page to block it).

Other than that a user group idea (such as the Union feature at Gamespot or something of that nature but done in a different way) would be totally sweet.

But these are just about it really, keep upt the good work, love the bombcast, quick looks and news from you guys!

I'd like releases to better explained. As it stand now I have no idea what half things mean. Like, what the hell is a company part and where am I supposed to get the product code from?

There seems to be confusion on whether or not articles should be written in second person or third person. (For example, I've seen articles written like "You do this and this" and articles written like "Commander Shepard does this and this"). 

What about Team Fortress 2 then? Should Xbox 360 and PS3 be detached as platforms?

I think the spacing after a header should be addressed. Whenever I see this:

I don't like the lists of games for consoles.

" There seems to be confusion on whether or not articles should be written in second person or third person. (For example, I've seen articles written like "You do this and this" and articles written like "Commander Shepard does this and this").  "

" @natetodamax said:

" There seems to be confusion on whether or not articles should be written in second person or third person. (For example, I've seen articles written like "You do this and this" and articles written like "Commander Shepard does this and this").  "

I think the general consensus is third person. Hell, there was a thread about it... that you made? "

1) I aint a lunatic, that game is fun, in it's own kinda janky way. 

I have a question: what's the standard information any franchise page should have?

I don't think I've ever edited game releases i usually do the plot and gameplay sides of things.

But I do realize how plot summaries must be shortened. I'm responsible for the Lords of Shadow plot summary and I've been thinking of a better way to rewrite it

" What about Team Fortress 2 then? Should Xbox 360 and PS3 be detached as platforms?

Edit: Oh, and how should mods be treated?

"

Like this?

Or like this?

HEADER

• Some people use two spaces after each period or even after each word, and when pointing this out to them, they say that they were taught doing it this way.
  
• Ethan said some time ago that links shouldn't be added to any kind of headers, since it messes up the search function or something.
• I personally hate it when the very first thing that see on a page is an image aligned to the left, I always change it to the right. Also, when there isnt enough information in a section with a image in it and there's new section right after, the image in the first section clips through the second header line (example below), a way I've solved this is moving all the content in the first section inside a table, but some on the site really hate tables, though that is the only option besides deleting the image.
  
  

Overview

Story

I think it would be great to have a spell checker, I think that would help alot of people. Also I would love to see "Original Europe/UK Release Date"

I think that the tables in the articles should be more uniform. Some have borders, some do not. Some have multiple headers, some do not. The list goes on but here are two quick examples: The Black-Ops page's weapons sections first of all of two different tables for both the single player and multiplayer. Note when it is separated by gun class (eg. SMG, assault rifle, etc) the heading is outside of the table. Now compare all this with a very similar page, the Modern Warfare page. There are no borders, there are less columns, and the gun type is the heading of the table.
I understand that it is hard to make similar tables for games where they might give you different information but I think an agreed upon style should be put forth. So by that I mean, basically say that tables should have borders, and the title of the table should be outside of it while the column names should be inside it. That may sound a little confusing but look at the Black-Ops tables. Those, at least in my mind, are formatted perfectly. Now these are not the only two examples in the whole wiki, nor are they the best examples, but they were the two pages that I knew would have a table in them.

To recap, tables should look similar across all wiki pages. Labels for column information should be in side the table while the title should be outside. Additionally, all tables should have borders separating the columns and rows. Different games can have tables of varying length but I think there should be some consistency between them.

I guess this not really a question but more of a request...

Game mods do not get their own pages and we have no plans to add a mod page type. Notable mods (and I'm talking REALLY notable here) should be addressed on the game that they're compatible with."

"Game mods do not get their own pages and we have no plans to add a mod page type. Notable mods (and I'm talking REALLY notable here) should be addressed on the game that they're compatible with."

What's the limit on pictures? I've been doing the KZ3 weapons and adding a pic for each one but it's simply starting to get too big. Have I gone too far?

This is the top of the page blurb, It should a be a sentence that gives someone who may have no idea about the game some quick insight.

Overview

Gameplay

Multiplayer Modes

Weapons

Plot

Chatacters

Locations

Development

DLC

Marketing

I said this when Ethan asked the mods via PM about some of the style stuff, but I don't think a strict set of headings for sections on a page is the way to go. Gaming is a very diverse medium, we cover everything from simple games like Pong, to ever changing experiences like World of Warcraft, to competitive multiplayer exclusive stuff like Counter Strike, to in depth story based games like Dragon Age. You really can't have a standard structure when the pages are so diverse.

Honestly the one question I have is not content but picture formatting.  There seems to have been no correspondence about the location and proper etiquette regarding the ideal amount and location of screenshots.  Should text reviews be an example?  What of the picture lists where people list every weapon, or multiplayer class and put a description next to a photo?

Can there be any implementation of galleries that people can use instead of putting out the lists and saying "here's a gallery of all the weapons" and people can scroll across widget style.  Barring that I would really like it if the community was given a few words about that.

Otherwise I think every page sadly requires some common sense which isn't so common given that games are very different from one another (much like MattyFTM has said).

Some things I'd note:

• Game titles should not be italicized.
• Pages should be written in the third person, not second.  (I.e.: "The player," not "You.")
• Do not use the table tool for formatting of paragraphs.  I've seen at least one incredibly long article that was constructed almost entirely of tables used to format text for image spacing, and not only was it a pain to edit, attempting to edit it would actually crash my browser.  Tables should be restricted to sections of articles where their use makes sense.  (i.e.: When a table would be best for organizing information into a table, not as a means to fancily manipulate paragraph formatting.)

" @BeachThunder:  I would also add a "Critical Reception/Critical Response" section that describes the general press response to the game. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @BeachThunder:  I would also add a "Critical Reception/Critical Response" section that describes the general press response to the game. "

I wrote that, but I erased it. It seems somewhat inappropriate on a site that also creates reviews :( Also, unlike wikipedia, there aren't any stringent(ish) rules that state that references must be cited/nor are there notability guidelines. Basically, I just feel that it's probably best left out here, lest we end up with an influx of stuff like "Jeff thought it was really cool, he said good things about it in the Bombcast, so I guess he's a huge fan!"Also, about spoilers, I know where you're coming from, but usually I visit articles/edit lists while I'm in the middle of playing the game; I usually try to avert my eyes but sometimes that doesn't work too well... "

I'm certainly no expert, as I've only edited a handful of pages, and added a couple of games, but I like to stick to a minimal approach if that's all that's required. My WIP page for "Mizzurna Falls" is an example of this.

In general, and referring to the main "Overview" page of a game entry, one image per section is probably enough to illustrate the point of that section, a "Plot" or "Story" section should be a synopsis, rather than a blow-by-blow account from beginning to end, and a "Gameplay" section should touch on the basic mechanics of the game, rather than the minutia. Superfluous images, information overkill, and track-by-track OST listings, (again, that appear in the body of the main page) are the kinds of things that seem to be a play for maximum points; the ability to score 5000+ points for editing a single game entry makes the moderation rules seem a bit wonky.

I agree that things like move/weapon/equipment/soundtrack listings, sometimes the longest part of a game entry, should have their own sections (if warranted).

What kind of releases are significant enough to warrant a page? Pinball and arcade games seem to be appropriate but what about flash games, iPhone games, and such?

Curious to know if adding extra information to a page's wiki, such as critical/commercial response or evolution of the development process, is a good thing or not. I feel like it adds information that's interesting to know and important to have from a database that's edited by game fanatics, but the staff might see otherwise on that one...

" I have a question: what's the standard information any franchise page should have? "

You've just offended everyone who plays Game Room on the PC, which is apparently no one. People, please remember to also add PC as a platform if it's not already present. I don't want to have to do it for you.

" I said this when Ethan asked the mods via PM about some of the style stuff, but I don't think a strict set of headings for sections on a page is the way to go. Gaming is a very diverse medium, we cover everything from simple games like Pong, to ever changing experiences like World of Warcraft, to competitive multiplayer exclusive stuff like Counter Strike, to in depth story based games like Dragon Age. You really can't have a standard structure when the pages are so diverse. "

Like Matty said, I don't think a strict header layout is the way to go especially considering how different the structure of pages in different categories can be. Typically, when I'm making a page, I start it with an "Overview" header. I think that's about as standardized as I would want to get on that regard.

I would love some clarification on just how long a plot synopsis should be on a game page, since there seems to be no standard at the moment. I'm of the school of thought that two or three paragraphs will suffice, with more detailed information being reserved for character pages. There are however many game pages on Giant Bomb with long, rambling plot sections that dwarf the description of the actual game mechanics. People who do this seem to be missing the point of a plot summary, and if there were official guidelines it would be easier to pare these types of articles down without hurting feelings.

For those asking about plot summaries Ethan has already made a post addressing this.

Aslo, I think it would be good to get a definitive rule as to when add-on content is considered DLC or an expansion (meaning it can have its own page). Is a retail release of add-on content enough to warrant having a page (even if it is downloadable too) or does the content have to be stand-alone? An expansions like Cataclysm can technically be classed as DLC as it's available digitally but I doubt we want to remove it.

I concur with an "Overview" "Story" "Gameplay" kind of set standard, where:

• The Overview briefly states what type of game it is ("first person shooter"), its setting, and perhaps console, company and release date. I know most of that information is elsewhere, but it helps to tell from a glance what the game is about. Like if I see "Violent Storm" I might think "bweh?" but then see "an Arcade beat-em-up developed by Konami in 1993" and I get everything I need to know from that. Then I get flashbacks of that bizarre soundtrack.
  
• The Story or Plot or whatever you want to call it should be more than a simple "back of the box" synopsis (and definitely not the actual one from that game's box), but it should also steer away from being too in-depth or spoilerish. I guess that's common sense, and is aptly covered by that "what is a summary?" FAQ.
  
• Gameplay should simply state how the game is played, how it's of its genre(s) and what distinguishing features it employs (and an explanation of them, if no concept pages for them exist already).

• "Appendices", that is to say long rambling lists about all the creatures in the game, or the bosses, or the weapons, or the OST or a list of dungeons/settings. They seem like padding. If there's something notable about any of those things, they should probably have a blurb in the "Gameplay" section in non-list form.
  
• A list or a detailed description of characters in the game. When an editor gets around to making separate character pages, that's just going to be a superfluous addition to the main game article, and will either end up deleted or (worse) plagiarized for the new pages. Obviously, though, it's always going to be easier to write a list of characters than it is making separate pages for them, especially if you lack the Wiki points to make pages.
  

"As far as adding stuff to assist wiki users both old and new, I did suggest recently that it would be neat if GB had a way of finding wikis that are missing specific data (such as releases or pictures or an overview/main body text) but that seems more like something the engineers or API people might put together. I'm content to manually search for empty pages for the time being though. "

" What I feel shouldn't be included:

• "Appendices", that is to say long rambling lists about all the creatures in the game, or the bosses, or the weapons, or the OST or a list of dungeons/settings. They seem like padding. If there's something notable about any of those things, they should probably have a blurb in the "Gameplay" section in non-list form. "

" As far as adding stuff to assist wiki users both old and new, I did suggest recently that it would be neat if GB had a way of finding wikis that are missing specific data (such as releases or pictures or an overview/main body text) but that seems more like something the engineers or API people might put together. I'm content to manually search for empty pages for the time being though. "

Mount and Blade lovers aren't lunatics, we just enjoy two handed swords (Thats not a euphemism.) more than the average person. Also, you had a civ 5/Liar's Dice TNT, the bar for crazy has been set pretty high. 

Here's a question that I've been wondering about for awhile.  When it comes to characters found in video games but are from other medias, what should their character page contain?  Take the Super Robot Wars franchise, where the games are all mash ups taking characters from various mecha anime.  For the character page of one of the pilots, should it be strictly information from the games the character is involved in, or is information from the show also fair game?  Obviously a full blown summary of the show would probably not be ok, but what's the cut off mark?

" Here's a question that I've been wondering about for awhile.  When it comes to characters found in video games but are from other medias, what should their character page contain?  Take the Super Robot Wars franchise, where the games are all mash ups taking characters from various mecha anime.  For the character page of one of the pilots, should it be strictly information from the games the character is involved in, or is information from the show also fair game?  Obviously a full blown summary of the show would probably not be ok, but what's the cut off mark? "

" @Turambar said:

" Here's a question that I've been wondering about for awhile.  When it comes to characters found in video games but are from other medias, what should their character page contain?  Take the Super Robot Wars franchise, where the games are all mash ups taking characters from various mecha anime.  For the character page of one of the pilots, should it be strictly information from the games the character is involved in, or is information from the show also fair game?  Obviously a full blown summary of the show would probably not be ok, but what's the cut off mark? "

Character pages should primarily focus on a character's game appearances. Additional information about their other appearances is fine, but shouldn't be the primary focus (and there's no need for full plot arcs or anything like that). "