Fallout 4 'Survival Mode' update in the works. Further details including hunger, fatigue, sickness, limited saving....

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paulmako

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#1  Edited By paulmako

When Fallout 4 released, one of the omissions was the lack of a 'Hardcore Mode' like the one seen in Fallout: New Vegas. This mode made it so you had manage things like hunger and thirst, while making small adjustments to make the game a bit tougher. For example, it made ammo have weight. Bethesda mentioned working on a mode like this for Fallout 4 a couple of weeks ago on Twitter, and now a Reddit user named /u/ShaneD53 has unearthed some details of how it will work. The info below is from that thread. Bethesda have confirmed that this info is legit and pointed to it in a tweet of their own. The release date of the update is unknown at the moment.

So without further to do, here is a wall of text with those details:

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Is the struggle of this world merely a pleasant game for you? Do you long for a more brutal take on a life lived post apocalypse?

If you answered "Yes and yes!", then Survival difficulty is for you!

Survival upends many of the rules of life in the Commonwealth for maximum challenge. For a full list of these changes, see below.

To enable Survival, press [Pause], select "Settings," then "Gameplay" and choose "Survival" from the "Difficulty" options.

Saving: Manual and quicksaving are disabled. To save your game, you'll need to find a bed and sleep for at least an hour.

Combat: Combat is more lethal for everyone. You now deal, but also take, more damage. You can increase the damage you deal even further with "Adrenaline" (see below).

Fast Travel: Fast Travel is disabled. If you wish to be somewhere, you'll have to physically travel there.

Weighted Ammo: Bullets and shells now all have a small amount of weight, which varies by caliber. Heavier items such as fusion cores, rockets, and mini-nukes can really drag you down.

Compass: Be sure to keep your eyes peeled, as enemies will no longer appear on your compass. As well, the distance at which locations of interest will appear has been significantly shortened.

Adrenaline: Survival automatically grants the Adrenaline perk, which provides a bonus to your damage output. Unlike other perks, the only way to increase your rank of the Adrenaline perk is by getting kills (hostile or otherwise). The higher your Adrenaline rank, the higher the damage bonus. Sleeping for more than an hour, however, will cause your Adrenaline rank to lower. You can check your current Adrenaline rank at any time in the Perks section on the Stat tab in your Pip-Boy.

Wellness: You'll find it difficult to survive without taking proper care of yourself. You must stay hydrated, fed, and rested to remain combat-ready. Going for extended periods of time without food, water, or sleep will begin to adversely affect your health, hurting your SPECIAL stats, adding to your Fatigue (see "Fatigue" below), lowering your immunity (see "Sickness" below), and eventually even dealing physical damage to you.

Fatigue: Fatigue works like radiation but affects your Action Points (AP) rather than your Hit Points (HP). The more Fatigue you've built up, the less AP you'll have for other actions. The amount of Fatigue you've accumulated is displayed in red on your AP bar.

Sickness: A comprised immune system and a few questionable decisions can end up getting you killed. Eating uncooked meat, drinking unpurified water, taking damage from disease-ridden sources, such as ghouls and bugs, or using harmful Chems all put your body at increased risk for various ill effects. When you are afflicted with an illness, a message will appear onscreen. You can view specifics about your current illnesses by navigating to the Status section on your Pip-Boy's Data tab and pressing [RShoulder] to view your active effects.

Antibiotics :Antibiotics, which can be crafted at Chem Stations or purchased from doctors, heal the various effects of sickness.

Bed Types: The type of bed you're sleeping in determines the length of time you are able to stay asleep. A sleeping bag will save your game and may help save your life when you're desperate, but it will never allow for a full night's rest and the benefits that come with it.

Crippled Limbs: Crippled limbs will no longer auto-heal after combat and will remain crippled until healed by a Stimpak.

Carry Weight: Exceeding your carry weight reduces your Endurance and Agility stats and periodically damages your legs and health. Think of your back!

Companions: Companions will no longer automatically get back up if downed during combat and will return home if abandoned without being healed.

Enemy and Loot Repopulation: Locations you've cleared will now repopulate enemies and loot at a significantly slower rate.

================

So there we go. They have said they plan to have a lengthy beta for this mode so this is not final. I think it's still a couple of months away.

My first thought was that it will make settlements much more meaningful. As a safe spot, as a place to generate guaranteed food and water, as a place to sleep. Food production at the moment is mainly a box to tick for settlement happiness. Now all those melon plants will be crucial!

I also quite like the idea of fatigue capping your AP. I wonder if hunger/thirst have separate bars or if both roll into fatigue. I imagine it's the former.

The main takeaway with the idea of limited saving is that it makes me think about the challenge of Bethesda games in general. And wondering what playing one with actual challenge would be like. At the moment you can just save/quickload your way in and out of any situation. The only time there is challenge is if you are stuck in a save where you need to escape, but even then you can reload one from a few minutes before if you really can't get out. Stopping fighting a dragon to eat 6 wheels of cheese like nothing happened is probably the best example of this.

I am interested in this new mode because it sounds like it could be a genuinely different way to play the game, even more-so than in New Vegas.

Any Giantbomb duders thinking about playing with this setting?

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snoojis

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I like the idea of it. I just don't think having all of those on at the same time would be much fun for me.

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ivdamke

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#3  Edited By ivdamke

Too late for me. I certainly would've jumped right into it on release though. It's a shame because fallout 4 was so barren of any interesting mechanics this might've made it more engaging. I do find Bethesda's faith in their game engine stability by removing manual and quick saves kind of hilarious in a bad way though.

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stordoff

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Saving: Manual and quicksaving are disabled. To save your game, you'll need to find a bed and sleep for at least an hour.

This is probably not a mode I would play anyway, but the limited saves rules it out entirely for me. I can see the reason for it, but FO4 crashed way too often when transitioning between areas, and I got stuck in terrain a couple of times, so not being able to save at will would just be annoying.

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fisk0

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#5 fisk0  Moderator

Given how unstable Bethesda games are, the save limitations sound kinda troubling, other than that, the hardcore mode was my preferred way to play New Vegas. I haven't bought FO4 yet, but if it's stable enough when I get around to playing it, I'd be interested in playing it this way.

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sparky_buzzsaw

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I wish there was a Civ V-like set of custom gameply options you could turn on or off. Limited saving sounds irritating.

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emfromthesea

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Like others, I like some of the mechanic changes but not all of them. Though I'm sure someone will create a mod that gives you more control over this set of options.

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FacelessVixen

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Makes me wonder about how many systems that are in/coming to Fallout 4 are inspired by the modding community.

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Lost_Remnant

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I'm feeling positive about these additions but I'm hoping Bethesda will give you the ability to toggle some/all of them either at will or when starting a survival game. I'm not really into the idea of limiting saves in such a fashion, sure I've used the save whenever you want feature in Bethesda games to pass some speech checks or move things in my favor just for funsies. Mostly though it was just a way to mitigate something going horribly wrong with stability or some kind of quest bug and loading back to an earlier save to see if I can avoid the issue. Years of playing Bethesda games has taught me to keep multiple saves going. Even with patches, unfortunate issues can still happen to you at anytime.

Now that an earlier save could be anywhere from thirty minutes to an hour in the past and with no fast travel meaning you'll have to walk to wherever you were previously and hope whatever bug you experienced doesn't trigger again sounds like it could become frustrating real fast. With that said a lot of these features sound like a neat way to spice up the base game, I especially like the modifier to combat, it's what the Metro games did in it's Ranger Mode. Enemies dealt a lot of damage, but so did you.

There is still a lot of Fallout 4 I haven't seen due to getting sick of the load times (console owner here) and other stability issues that I couldn't stomach this time around due to finding Fallout 4 disappointing in some key areas. So I still need to go back to it, but this survival mode sounds like something that could hook me back.

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Hayt

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I like everything except the saving. Quicksave and manual save is crucial to survive bugs and other fuckups beyond your control.

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BoccKob

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How would increasing tedium and time-wasting enable me to have more fun..?

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e30bmw

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@bocckob: Different people have fun doing different things. I understand how that can be a hard concept to grasp....

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KillEm_Dafoe

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This sounds a lot better thought-out than New Vegas' mode. I found that to be way more tedious than fun. Combat was my main gripe, because they added weight to ammo, plus the need to carry all these other things, and all the other bad shit that could happen to you, but enemies were still bullet-sponges because it was still a stats-based RPG at the end of the day. I'm glad they're accounting for that with this mode now. I just hope it works as good as it sounds on paper.

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alwaysbebombing

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Damn, I am so excited

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Arabes

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I'm really looking forward to this. I didn't have any stability issues in the 50 hours or so that I played Fallout so I'm not worries about the limited saves. The most fun I had was just wandering around the world as I thought most of the main quests and story were weak.I never finished it so I'll wait for the DLC to come out then replay the game in this mode. An actually challenging Bethesda game is right up my alley :)

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dekkadekkadekka

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The saving is a bit of an issue, but it doesn't say that autosaves are disabled...

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BoccKob

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@e30bmw: And an even harder one to explain, it seems.

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Atwa

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#18  Edited By Atwa

Hardcore mode was the only way to play New Vegas to me, so this should be great. I want the actual survival apocalyptic game.

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e30bmw

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@bocckob: Naw, I just thought that your snarky, dismissive comment only deserved an equally snarky and dismissive response.

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fractal_seaweed

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#20  Edited By fractal_seaweed

Oh cool, so does this mean Fallout 4 will be coming out of early access soon? Hehehehe-- ... Jokes aside, this seems like it'll be a fun addition for folks that've been craving it. Weird that it didn't... launch with this mode.

@paulmako That was my first though too: that it'll make the whole 'build a town' feature even more useful. Set up multiple outposts where you can go and recover from the wastelands.

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paulmako

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@bocckob: @e30bmw: What did you guys think of the main Fallout 4 game?

I was back and forward for a while but I think the base game there is great. It will be interesting to see where it ends up after the DLC and Survival mode are added.

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ascagnel

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Hmm. I kinda like the idea of limited saving (the console versions of the game have been relatively stable on the most recent patch), but I don't like the idea of completely disabling fast travel without an in-world replacement. Something like the silt striders or Mage's Guild teleports in Morrowind -- you have to go to a limited set of places, can be sent to a limited set of places, and it can cost a bit of money. It's a nice balance between no fast travel and the Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout style of fast travel from anywhere to anywhere.

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Grimhild

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Too late for me. I certainly would've jumped right into it on release though. It's a shame because fallout 4 was so barren of any interesting mechanics this might've made it more engaging. I do find Bethesda's faith in their game engine stability by removing manual and quick saves kind of hilarious in a bad way though.

Exactly my thoughts.

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hatking

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#24  Edited By hatking

I sort of wish this were more of a mode than a difficulty setting. I can't see wanting to experience their narrative in this way, but I wouldn't mind creating a new character and seeing how long I could make it in something like this--but I guess there are a hundred games that are that now, so I'm probably fine.

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doctordonkey

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After putting 100 hours into Fallout 4, I really, really don't think the combat or any mechanics in the game are interesting or good enough to warrant something like this.

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Arabes

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@doctordonkey: Do you mean you don't think this will make you go back and play the game, or you don't think these features should be added to the game at all?

I'm just curious because survival mode has gotten me much more interested in going back to Fallout once all the DLC is out.

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Bane

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Messing around with my ability to save the game makes this a non-starter for me. Sometimes real life happens, and losing progress because I'm too far from a bed is some hot garbage.

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grilledcheez

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I like the fact that it exists, and at this point I have become the type of person that might enjoy it.

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JamesFargoth

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@bane: A save and quit that deletes on return would work for me.

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Quipido

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@bane said:

Messing around with my ability to save the game makes this a non-starter for me. Sometimes real life happens, and losing progress because I'm too far from a bed is some hot garbage.

I think that's solved by the standby function on both consoles - I have used that on PS4 since it was implemented and it never once crashed or anything like that. And on PC I presume it would not be hard to mod the game to enable saving..?

Anyway, I have the season pass so I will wait a year for all the DLC to come out and then play the whole game again, in survival mode and expanded by the new stuff. Looking forward to it!

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e30bmw

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@paulmako said:

@bocckob: @e30bmw: What did you guys think of the main Fallout 4 game?

I was back and forward for a while but I think the base game there is great. It will be interesting to see where it ends up after the DLC and Survival mode are added.

I thought it was alright. I really enjoyed it for about 40 hours and then kind of burned out on it. Been meaning to go back to it. But I think that's kind of irrelevant to understanding why someone might like these kind of changes to the game.

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doctordonkey

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@arabes said:

@doctordonkey: Do you mean you don't think this will make you go back and play the game, or you don't think these features should be added to the game at all?

I'm just curious because survival mode has gotten me much more interested in going back to Fallout once all the DLC is out.

I mean, I love when developers support their games post-release like this. But I just find Bethesda's games a really poor conduit for "hardcore" gameplay. I'm just speaking for myself here obviously, because there are tons of people way into the mod scene, and these survival type game modes have been modded in since Oblivion and people have enjoyed them. I just don't think the way these games have been built have leaned them toward this kind of mode. Besides that, I've played all of the modern Fallout games at launch, and every single one, on PC, has been completely mired in bugs and performance issues. Losing who knows how much progress since the last time I slept because some invisible enemy killed me, or some door won't open, or I fall through the world or god knows what the fuck else happens—most likely the game crashing—would be so incredibly frustrating it would be enough to lead me to just drop it right there and be done with it.

If I hadn't been able to just load back up a minute or two after some crazy bug halted my progress or the game CTD'd when I was playing through Fallout 4, I wouldn't have made it past hour 5.

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superslidetail

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#34  Edited By superslidetail

So weapons and armor still don't wear down and break?

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GERALTITUDE

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Sounds up my alley!

I'm looking forward to a second attempt at Fallout 4 with this dlc and some mods.

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Hayt

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@ascagnel: I used the carriages in Skyrim instead of fast travel and if worked nicely. Does Fallout have nothing like that?

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Marz

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sounded great until the limited saves, who the hell wants that?