A divergent female opinion on Anita's Tropes VS women

So first of all - all credit goes to @praka for finding this video. His thread got locked and I guess it's now deleted because he didn't put in enough text so it was flagged as spam. Good on the moderation team for being a bit more aggressive towards people making poor threads but I do think the guy should have just gotten a warning and given a chance to expand on his thread.

anyway the video in question:

( VIDEO )

While a bit camera shy, this girl step by step breaks down Anita's video and gives her own views and opinions on videogame tropes. As someone mentioned in the comments (I know it's dangerous to go into YouTube comments..) the best part about this is that it presents a different viewpoint, but since it's a female you can't just outright dismiss it as chauvinistic male pandering. In addition she makes some really great points.

ADDENDUM: If you can please try to discuss what the author of the video had to say as there is another whole thread for discussing Anita's video (although it's kind of hard to talk about one without referencing the other)

Well... it's not like anyone forced anyone to pay for those or watch those. I didn't and I am currently very happy with my life, I would urge most people who are against it to do the same.

Why couldn't this go in the other thread?

I watched this when it was posted earlier, and it's not the "thorough debunking" or "destroying" of Anita's video at all. Yes, she makes some alright arguments, but most of her points are utterly ridiculous. Such as claiming that Tropes vs. Women should be dismissed as propaganda because Anita *gasp* has an agenda. Really, you don't say?

Because her points of view warrant their own discussion I think.

I don't mind a separate thread because it would be buried under pages and pages.

This is good stuff where she is correct. If anything I think it will be lost on people that both are correct.

@humanity said:

This is the internet damn it, none of these points of view warrant discussion.

Including this one.

What a misogynist.

How much money did she need in order to make the video??

@beachthunder: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games?ref=live

=( I was making a joke about the video that's posted in the OP.

@coakroach: Dammmnn you internet coakroach!

Don't worry... I got it and chuckled.

I like this video. Anita, I felt was bending the truth to fit her view.

Fantastic.

My god these pancakes are great. It makes me wonder why I don't eat pancakes more often, because I totally should.

Watched the video in full now and this lady is encapsulating exactly why I think EVERYTHING Anita does is absolute bullshit just to promote her own agenda. Apparently though that makes me a male chauvinistic asshole for saying anything against anita right?

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

@krullban said:

i kno is discusting

@demoskinos said:

Can people please stop doing this bullshit? No-one said this, and making up things your imaginary detractors might say is nothing short of pathetic.

God I hate Anita. Just think of her and her followers as a cult and suddenly it all makes sense. That Kickstarter was disgusting. I'd love to know what all that money went on.

Only watched the first four minutes and I do plan on listening to the rest, but so far most of her points of contention are from a position of an implied tone in Anita's video that doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I understand the issue that people have of her video "taking a position". This isn't a journalistic piece, it's a critical one and as such it should have a thesis that it proves. The constant complaint of "where did the money go?" is entirely irrelevant to her argument and only proves that the person complaining has a personal issue with Anita. You clearly didn't contribute, why do you care?

Her comments that this video is propaganda are utterly hilarious and, at least so far in the video, is not substantiated in any way. The fact that Dinosaur Planet also had a playable male character is irrelevant to the point that it did have a main playable female character which was ultimately removed and turned into a damsel in distress. Her contention that Anita framed this change as a "sinister plot" by Miyamoto is also unsubstantiated.

It seems like most of her points so far aren't especially well thought out, miss the point entirely, or are couched in a clear derision for Anita. But I'm happy to listen to the rest later today and see what else she has to say.

Thanks for posting that. I think it was a well reasoned argument.

@aishan: Um, just because nobody has said that in this thread doesn't mean that isn't the attitude of a lot of people because it is.

Yes, you are the victim here.

No it just means that you have some kind of odd personal hatred for a person that you don't know, who holds opinions that differ from your own. AND THAT MAKES YOU VERY MAD.

What is the problem with her having an "agenda" (or perhaps better put as an opinion) and attempting to back that "agenda" up with relevant information.

You can disagree with her thesis, but why not refute Anita's points with your own instead of attacking her personally or painting yourself out as some kind of victim for saying you disagree with her?

Not everyone says that and the people that do I completely agree are exaggerating way too much. I don't share that point of view at all and I don't have it out for Anita or anything - it's just that her video is kind of one sided and shallow in a way. While this YouTuber tends to sway her point of view to the other extreme, a lot of what she is saying is pretty valid and interesting to me because it's a female's point of view rather than male which is all we've been hearing as of late. Here you have a female gamer that doesn't feel spoken down to or demeaned by the trope that Anita presents.

Obviously on all that man-hating propaganda to spread to children when you least expect it. With that money we're able to set up hiding spots in prominent cities so when parents have their backs turned to their kids BAM we hit the kids with some flyers.

But for serious, I also hate all people who think differently than me and just assume they're all cultists. Don't you find it helps you sleep at night? It's great. Plus none of that pesky thinking or challenging my own beliefs. Because I know I'm right about all things that I think.

All of that tunnel vision and narrow mindedness really contributes to the whole cult vibe though, which you're clearly attuned to.

That's fine, but you don't have to be a man to not notice or care about gender tropes, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and that they don't have an effect on society at large.

@rockyraccoon37: She's a fucking liar who bends the truth to fit her argument as clearly pointed out in the video. I never once said anything to imply that I was "a victim". And the problem with her having an agenda is that you are going to pick and choose what you put in to make your point look good instead of taking an evenhanded approach and actually examining the issue like she said she was. My irritation with Anita is just also compounded by the insanely sensitive overreactions to "sexism" in the video game industry as of late. Its just gotten fucking absurd case in point Adam Sessler flipping out over the "Bros before Hos" achievement or the whole Tomb Raider thing. Oddly enough both cases women created these things that people felt were so "sexist".

Finally somebody who understands. I feel I have found a kindred spirit in you rockyraccoon37. Shall we discuss our hooded cult dress code at the AGM. It's at starbucks this year. We're all very excited.

Anita Lies by omission about Krystals role in dinosaur planet. She was not the MC the guy fox replaced was. Mario saves many toadstool men before saving peach, that kinda messes up Anita's gender based trope stance. There are many games where a man saves men they might actually be more cases of that then women.

Anitas video is all misrepresentations, mangling of facts, ignoring anything that challanges her preconceptions and more as pointed out by the video that started this thread.

People funded Anita for research and facts. She just phoned it in from wikipedia. This video was no better then her previous FREE propagandist videos. Only this time people Paid to be lied and mislead, when they were sold a carefully researched body of work as the selling point cause she could not do it right and proper without money.

She scammed everyone.

@rockyraccoon37: I love you <3

This girl nailed it.

@rockyraccoon37: Thats not at all what I said or implied.

Also to clarify I think that @demoskinos is kinda nuts and please don't group me together with him/her. I just wanted to post this because I think the author makes a lot of valid points from the other side of the argument. Once again, not debunking tropes or saying they don't affect society at large. I can't judge all of Anita's effort based on one video but thus far that video has been a bit lack luster in establishing a coherent point or direction for the series. I'm sure she will go more in depth at later episodes, or at least I hope, because if she will just continue listing games that feature the trope in question without going into deeper discussion about it then the series will seem somewhat shallow and do nothing for society at large apart from standing on a soapbox and screaming "hey this seems kinda messed up ok peace."

I'd recommend you watch the whole thing. She starts off slow up until about half way through when she really hits her stride and starts driving the points home.

Like a jackhammer. Anitas stuff is so shallow and thin its easy to shred. Thats why she wont allow comments on her pages.

Krystal was going to be playable character in Dinosaur Planet, alongside Sabre. The fact that they changed Sabre into Fox in no way changes the fact that Krystal's role went from hero to damsel-in-distress.

Also, re: the Toads in the original SMB. One simple sentence. "Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle." Come on now, this isn't exactly Shakespeare, it's pretty clearly implied there that Mario searches each castle for Peach.

uh, no, she doesn't allow comments on her videos because the commentors from reddit, /v/, etc. are fucking disgusting and terrible people.

I don't always agree with Anita but I would turn off those comments too.

The toads were being held hostage to keep peach in line. Lets ignore the fact that they needed saving as much as the princess. They dont count as being saved cause they are not women, which is messed up that you just dismiss them so easily. Is that fact missed on you. Are you so cult worshiper sold on Anita's cult of propaganda that you would suicide rush anyone that differs in view from the Core ideology she pushes.

@animasta:

NO she does it to make sure not one can be challenging her. She does not want discussion. She wants censorship. None of her points can withstand scrutiny. Thats why she blocked them.

Its got nothing to do with seeing some mean comments. This is the internet and she volunteered to be a public figure. SUCK IT UP.

@brad_d80: also that's the smart, sane way of arguing your point; accusing anyone who disagrees with you as being part of a cult.

Hmm, sounds like Brad_D80 wants a cult as well. Not allowing comments on Youtube is not censorship. Otherwise how could you have watched this video?

In all of these discussions anyone ever stop for a second to contemplate the fact that Mario got dragged into this whole sexism in video games thing for the last year or so because he's a fat little Italian plumber that saves a princess kidnapped by a giant turtle by thwarting an army of mushrooms and lesser turtles and dropping said giant turtle in a lava pit and is often being cited as part of the problem?

@brad_d80: some mean comments on youtube? haha yeah they were just mean that's totally why she blocked youtube comments, merely because they were MEAN.

and not death threats.

BUT HEY WHAT DO I KNOW I AM PART OF A CULT APPARENTLY

I admire her spirit, but she's trying to argue that Princess Peach is more than just a damsel in distress? I'm not sure that's true...

I suppose I should say something snarky. "Take a drink every time she uses air-quotes and you'll be dead halfway through the video..."

Why would she though? Her entire TED talk was just her gloating over the success of her kickstarter, thanks to the idiots that spew vitriol. According to her, they were the reason she managed to gain that amount of attention and money for her project. If anything she should be leaving the comment section open to further prove her point.

But that also means leaving an opening for actual, well reasoned critique and it'd sparking a debate which would endanger the radical feminist echo-chamber that she's created.

I'm nuts because I'm calling her out for being a liar and conveniently omitting anything that doesn't reinforce her argument while examining the issue at hand? Well, okay then.

Interesting stuff about implicit social assumptions in this weeks Science (yeah yeah, can't just read about vidja games). Seems to be getting at what Anita's series is trying to talk about (in maybe not the most elegent fashion), that there are anti-female biases generate throughout society. As a mature entertainment body it is right that the gaming industry starts to discuss these issues.

It amazes me the lack of empathy shown whenever this topic surfaces, why do you have to so aggressively dismiss other peoples opinions. And that's both "sides" of the discussion.

Anyway, have crack at the standard test for innate bias if you want, maybe realise that this is a bigger issue than just videogames. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

@gumby: there are better avenues for well thought out critiques than a fucking youtube comment and you and I both know that.

Having intelligent disagreements is good for the scholarly process. Keeps everyone honest and on their toes. Video responses like this are fine.

It's when you get into personal vitriol, name calling, ad hominem attacks, and extreme hyperbole that it all breaks down.

Sarkeesian makes good points. Her critics also make good points. Imagine that. You can both disagree and in some ways, you can both be right.

Yeah but that's what a critical analysis is-- a thesis which is then backed up by specific moments in the works being analyzed. This isn't a journalistic piece, it has absolutely no reason to be evenhanded. Presumably in the coming videos she will point out examples of women being fairly and properly represented in video games, but the first part of the video doesn't have to cover that.