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#1 Edited by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -

Every time I see an Anthem article or video and look at the comments it's "Destiny this" or "Warframe that". I know the internet is overwhelmingly negative, but it's odd to see so many people hoping or trying to predict a game to fail so hard. I do see some similarities with Warframe, but as someone who liked ME3's multiplayer a lot and somewhat liked DAI's multiplayer, I see a lot of stuff that Bioware is doing in Anthem that they did in the past. Certain powers like the dome shield that protects you while you're in it and buffs you or helps your powers recharge faster while you're in it was also in ME3's multiplayer. I've seen a few powers that they've shown this month that were in ME3 or DAI, but they've evolved or iterated on them, so I'm not saying that's a negative.

The weapon types like heavy pistol, assault rifle, SMG, heavy weapon, etc being there and usable by certain classes is straight from Mass Effect. I'm glad they brought the combo system over from Mass Effect. Being able to prime and detonate each other's attack was what made ME3's MP so fun for me and actually builds on teamwork. Destiny and Warframe are co-op games too, but there's no power interaction, so it's like playing alone you just have more grenades and bullets to throw at enemies. In Mass Effect or Anthem someone could prime enemies by freezing them then someone else make all of them explode into an ice bomb by hitting them with electricity and the freeze effect is going to spread to nearby enemies.

It's the same genre as Destiny, but I don't see anything all that Destiny here besides being a loot shooter, which is something Destiny isn't even good at (in terms of rewarding loot) and it's not like Destiny invented the genre - Borderlands and Warframe are older, Division and Destiny were announced around the same time. They all have stuff in common, but I think the idea that Bioware is just ripping off other people's games is silly and inaccurate.

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#2 Posted by shivermetimbers (1674 posts) -

It might not be ripping off Destiny in terms of mechanics, but the fact that Destiny exists is partially why Anthem exists and I think there's something to be said about it.

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#3 Posted by Efesell (4261 posts) -

Ripping off is harsh but I would say that Anthem is the kind of game it is for a reason and it's real hard to not factor Destiny into that.

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#4 Posted by Casepb (585 posts) -

I understand your frustration but Destiny is incredibly well known so of course you will get many comments comparing the games. Honestly I see it more like The Division. But yeah Destiny wasn't the first. It is a bit depressing how so many want to see it fail, but it's the same deal with Destiny and The Division and almost all online games I think. I'm hoping for the best with it, because it would be nice to have a good new looter shooter game.

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#5 Edited by BallsLeon (551 posts) -

From the E3 trailer I can see why comparisons are being made to Destiny: scifi strike-team, etc.

That being said, I don't think I've seen this negative buzz! I recently asked Reddit which free game I should get with my RTX card, and the response was overwhelmingly Anthem. Now... that might not be a fair comparison as it is going head to head with Battlefield V which has gotten a lukewarm reception.

With Bioware on board I am pretty confident this game will have a story, something Destiny doesn't really have (dont @ me).

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#6 Posted by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -

@shivermetimbers: That might have some truth, but if Borderlands had bombed would Destiny exist? All these million dollar companies do market research and look at trends. It's not like Anthem/Destiny is the same situation as PUBG/Fortnite where one game is directly copying the other's mechanics and trying to ride its coattails. Destiny didn't uniquely create or popularize anything that I've seen in Anthem so far.

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#7 Edited by Efesell (4261 posts) -

I think Destiny exists without Borderlands without much issue. It's such a different set of goals both games are pursing there for me to see one influencing the other much beyond they both have loot and guns.

Whereas with Bioware and Anthem it feels like a project that only really exists as a reaction.

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#8 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7442 posts) -

I think deserved or not, Anthem will have to deal with other games in that genre being published first If you come to a gaming audiences with a science fiction themed game set on a 'over grown planet" you are stomping in Destiny's mud-patch even if Bioware didn't mean to do that. There are too many similarities on the surface and deepr down to escape he comparisons.

I'll say this, "Even on it own, I would not say I'm psyched about what Bioware has shown off for Anthem" - it has not hook me.

Is that fair? Who cares fi ist fair, because life isn't fair. A cautious wait-n-see seems to be the most prevalent reaction, and that might be the best that game can expect.

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#9 Edited by tds418 (428 posts) -

@deathstriker said:

Destiny and Warframe are co-op games too, but there's no power interaction, so it's like playing alone you just have more grenades and bullets to throw at enemies.

I have no beef with Anthem (though I'm not hyped for it either), but I think this is an overly-reductive analysis of how class abilities/supers can be used together in Destiny. Plenty of endgame strategies in Destiny involve using, just for example, supers in sequence so that orbs can be generated for other players, or using class abilities that some classes have (like a Titan's Melting Point or a Hunter's shadow shot) to weaken enemies so that other classes can unload with damage. It's nothing super complicated but class abilities/supers do synergize with each other when used well. Another example that just came to mind in PvP would be using a Warlock healing rift together with a Titan barrier to take a control point. Definitely more than just "have more grenades and bullets to throw at enemies."

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#10 Edited by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -
@tds418 said:

@deathstriker said:

Destiny and Warframe are co-op games too, but there's no power interaction, so it's like playing alone you just have more grenades and bullets to throw at enemies.

I have no beef with Anthem (though I'm not hyped for it either), but I think this is an overly-reductive analysis of how class abilities/supers can be used together in Destiny. Plenty of endgame strategies in Destiny involve using, just for example, supers in sequence so that orbs can be generated for other players, or using class abilities that some classes have (like a Titan's Melting Point or a Hunter's shadow shot) to weaken enemies so that other classes can unload with damage. It's nothing super complicated but class abilities/supers do synergize with each other when used well. Another example that just came to mind in PvP would be using a Warlock healing rift together with a Titan barrier to take a control point. Definitely more than just "have more grenades and bullets to throw at enemies."

That's interesting, I didn't know some of what you mentioned. I don't claim to be a Destiny expert, but if I could beat both games and do some of the endgame stuff without knowing or doing those things then they must not be fundamental to the game, those things are fundamental to Mass Effect and probably Anthem. I didn't play the PvP much, I thought it felt forced and unneeded. Destiny probably would've been better without PvP. Bioware can go power heavy and crazy since they only have to worry about PvE balance, while Bungie had to manage PvE and PvP.

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#11 Edited by Efesell (4261 posts) -

There's also a ridiculous degree of power interaction in Warframe, by the way, including one frame that challenges you and other members of your team to fight and use abilities in sync with music that she plays.

You don't need that to succeed, which is good because you'll never find anyone good at it, but you don't need all your powers in Mass Effect either it just becomes a way less interesting game without.

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#12 Edited by tds418 (428 posts) -

@deathstriker Sure, you can beat the campaign without knowing that stuff. But it's hard to imagine how my raid group could have gotten past the last encounter of Last Wish, for example, without some chaining of supers, or how I would have done well in Gambit without working with my clan mates to use our abilities at the same time against the primevil. It's also totally possible to beat the Mass Effect games without combining abilities at all (at least 1-3, I only played a couple hours of Andromeda before falling off).

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#13 Posted by Rejizzle (1070 posts) -

I wouldn`t call Anthem a Destiny rip off, but it's certainly part of the same lineage as Destiny. It goes something like Diablo -> Borderlands -> Destiny -> Anthem. And it also helps to have some kind of frame of reference, so Destiny + ME3 Multiplayer is good shorthand for what Anthem seems to be going for.

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#14 Posted by bmccann42 (384 posts) -

I'm fine with what Anthem is, particularly as I still play Destiny 2 pretty much regularly (the game play loops really well for my brain type/mental health needs) and if Anthem plays similarly I think I will definitely enjoy it.

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#15 Posted by 49th (3884 posts) -

Yeah, the endless comparison to Destiny is becoming tiring. They share a lot of the same framework but there's no reason that Anthem can't get right the things that Destiny failed on. I think the game is looking good and will have a pretty solid launch.

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#16 Edited by nutter (1815 posts) -

Destiny, Division, Anthem, Borderlands...

...shit’s all Diablo.

;)

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#17 Edited by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -
@rejizzle said:

I wouldn`t call Anthem a Destiny rip off, but it's certainly part of the same lineage as Destiny. It goes something like Diablo -> Borderlands -> Destiny -> Anthem. And it also helps to have some kind of frame of reference, so Destiny + ME3 Multiplayer is good shorthand for what Anthem seems to be going for.

If I had to say "ME3 multiplayer + another game" that other game would definitely be Warframe since they have way more in common: powered suits, flying, going underwater, power/ability heavy, and other things. Destiny, at least for me, was like 90% shooting and 10% powers, since the powers were just grenades and other little stuff besides the super. ME3 and some of the Anthem videos I've seen are more like 70% powers, 25% shooting, and 5% melee which is closer to playing Warframe than Destiny. For Anthem and Warframe those numbers depends on the gamer's playstyle, the character they pick, and their build, but Destiny is always gun/shooting first.

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#18 Edited by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -
@tds418 said:

@deathstriker Sure, you can beat the campaign without knowing that stuff. But it's hard to imagine how my raid group could have gotten past the last encounter of Last Wish, for example, without some chaining of supers, or how I would have done well in Gambit without working with my clan mates to use our abilities at the same time against the primevil. It's also totally possible to beat the Mass Effect games without combining abilities at all (at least 1-3, I only played a couple hours of Andromeda before falling off).

I got bored with Destiny before getting to the raids, so I'll take your word about that stuff. I can't see someone playing the Mass Effect campaigns and not getting a single biotic explosion, tech combo, or some other type of power combo unless they're only playing with a soldier, only shooting, and not using their squad's powers - or playing in some other bad or odd way. In the multiplayer it's definitely going to happen. I think "power interaction" should happen in way more games, not just Destiny. Warframe, Division, and any other squad or co-op game with powers should figure out ways so people's abilities interact with each other in cool/interesting ways. I'm happy Bioware is bringing the system over to this game.

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#19 Posted by BladeOfCreation (1222 posts) -

Anthem is definitely chasing that Destiny dollar.

But to say that it's a rip off or whatever seems premature at best.

Online
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#20 Posted by frytup (1232 posts) -

Fair or not, the majority of Anthem criticism I see is pretty clearly "you abandoned single-player RPGs for this multiplayer loot shooter money hustle??"

Destiny is just the most convenient direct comparison. The real issue for Bioware fans is anxiety over the direction the studio is heading.

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#21 Posted by tradee9691 (16 posts) -

The game isn't out yet so who is to say if it rips anything off or not? Wait until you have it in your hands, play it, then resume this thread.

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#22 Posted by tradee9691 (16 posts) -

Also, everything rips something off. It is in the execution. Its all been done before. How they integrate all of the systems will validate or invalidate any criticisms.

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#23 Posted by BoOzak (2497 posts) -

I think it's too early to comment on the gameplay loop and general content of the game but the story is sure as hell ripped from Bungie's playbook.

'The Anthem of Creation is the power to create and destroy and it's up to the freelancers to make sure it doesnt fall into the hands of the Dominion.'

To be fair a lot of bad sci-fi stories involve ancient artifacts but it's still sad to see. But also, the fucking "Dominion" really? If they were to go full Warhammer 40k and embrace the ridiculousness of it i'd be fully on board but it doesnt seem to go far enough. Anyway, i'm still interested but i'm going to be taking a wait and see approach with this one.

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#24 Posted by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -

@tradee9691: There are hours of Anthem gameplay out there, I don't need to play the game to know there are a lot of gameplay mechanics from past Bioware games and the design of all the suits (besides the Interceptor) look like they're from ME3.

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#25 Edited by Tennmuerti (9443 posts) -

Anthem knows what it's doing and it's developers know too, they appear pretty savvy.

From the streams shown so far it's definitely 100% playing in the Warframe & Destiny backyard; very honestly so. (and even Monster Hunter to a degree) It's taking some lessons from both, while simultaneously trying to add it's own spin, spice and polish onto that. To call it a Destiny clone/ripoff is badly reductive; to ignore it's market competition and precursors/inspirations, is likewise naive.

(and let me tell you WF and Destiny devs are also very much looking at Anthem, it interesting times ahead for this genre/space)

I feel like the main people who will be quickly disappointed with it will be those that still expect the old type Bioware narrative focused RPG out of it, while those that do regularly play the types of games it's clearly going to be competing/coexisting with, are already in the "how is the endgame/gear/challenge/longevity" mode and have been for a while. Being in the second camp I'm eagerly excited to dig in and find out for myself just how good/bad that main meaty mart of Anthem will be in the long run.

@deathstriker btw like was already mentioned Warframe has quite a bit of power interaction, most organised "endgame" activities rely quite heavily on that aspect, it's just more underlying and free form (especially in regular play), rather then Anthem's directly seen "combos"

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#26 Posted by cikame (2656 posts) -

When i say Destiny looks like.... AHAHA ok i'm leaving that mistake in.
Let's start again.

When i say that Anthem looks like Destiny i am recognising the difference in basic gameplay, movement, traversing the levels, the differences in weaponry etc... However they haven't shown much in the way of story, and they've danced around saying that the objective of the game is to take on repetitive tasks for the reward of loot which might be completely uninspiring like Destiny, IF that's how the game turns out.
Right now it looks like Destiny in that i have no reason to play it, except if i want to fly around like Iron Man, but i'd only want to do that if there was enough variety in the levels and the ones we've seen might be 50% of the game for all we know.
Having low expectations leaves me open to surprise... but i'm not expecting to be.

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#27 Posted by mems1224 (2480 posts) -

Anthem looks way more interesting than Destiny ever did. It looks like they just fleshed out the ME multiplayer and made it a game which seems neat. I just want to see how much content the game has before I commit

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#28 Posted by Humanity (18501 posts) -

Anthem is the Dark Souls of Destiny. I think thats right.

People will always compare stuff to other stuff they know. I always heard Darksiders is like Zelda, and I never really played much Zelda in my life because I wasn't a Nintendo person growing up so I never really got the reference. To me Darksiders was just like a 3rd person game with puzzles.

Shorthanding games like this is tough because for the people that have played the example game it makes sense instantly but for others it's confusing and useless. When I write reviews once in a blue moon I always struggle with saying "oh this is just like Spelunky" because what if one of the 3 people that read my reviews has never played Spelunky - it's just better to take the time and explain what it is you mean instead of saying it's like "X" and move on.

So yah Anthem is kinda like Destiny in that it shares some similar concepts, and for those that have never played Destiny then Anthem is a third person game with leveling and multiplayer elements.

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#29 Posted by Pezen (2363 posts) -

Even as someone that played Mass Effect a great deal and even some multiplayer I always saw this game as 'Mass Effect: Destiny'. But this thread actually made me go look at more videos of the game and suddenly I am way more interested in the game than I was. And the Destiny comparisons, while understandable, is actually going away in my head in favor of the examples you made in the OP @deathstriker, in relation to Mass Effect and Dragon Age. That being said I don't think I ever felt like the game ripped anything off of another game as much as I felt the general conceptual idea or loop of the game seemed similar to something like Destiny.

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#30 Posted by Christophicus (4 posts) -

My mate was staunchly dismissive of Anthem, but managed to get into the Alpha. After playing it, he says the movement and combat is far smoother, snappier, and has more depth than he initially thought it would, and is actually looking forward to the game.

I can't wait to try it out as a result!

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#31 Posted by Drachmalius (559 posts) -

It might not be a ripoff of Destiny but it is competing in the same space. I'm sure it'll be a fine game but I just plunked down a lot of money for the newer Destiny 2 content and won't be able to make that kind of investment for a game like Anthem (or The Division 2) for a while. I expect a lot of people are in the same boat, and the fact is that Bioware is going to have to gain an audience by proving itself.

I really do hope it's good, Bioware needs a win. But the comparisons to Destiny are pretty apt, especially since the game isn't even out yet.

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#32 Edited by ThePanzini (722 posts) -

In a gameplay sense Anthem in nothing like Destiny but the way Anthem is structured is almost exaclty like Destiny.

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#33 Posted by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -

@thepanzini: I'll have to see more of the structure of the game before I say that. You might be right, but Bioware has mainly shown off gameplay and customization so far. I will say I'm glad this has a voiced main character. Being mute in Destiny, Divison, and most games not named Half-Life feels awkward and lazy to me.

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#34 Posted by Nick (1029 posts) -

i'm so bummed they're making a game like this. i love their single player games, and i'm not interested at all in playing anything multiplayer like Destiny.

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#35 Posted by squigiliwams (94 posts) -

You state like its a negative thing. When anthem was described as a destiny like, i was IN. Then i played the alpha and honestly the world needs to give Bungie some competition.

I want Ubisoft (Division2) and Bioware(anthem) to raise the bar so that when we get Destiny 3, or Post Acti 'Destiny Forever: The Travelers Saga' or whatever, that we can get better games.

ThePanzini said it above, its not the same game, but its structured the same. I wouldn't in a million years call Guild Wars 2 a 'WoW knockoff' but when someone asks me what that game is i say 'do you know what WoW is?' and go from there.

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#36 Edited by squigiliwams (94 posts) -

@deathstriker: As someone who has played some of the preview material:

The structure destiny as shit. Patrol the open world for mats. Go on story missions. Do strikes. Are they going to put their own spin on it? Sure. But i've got 1000 hours in destiny and 300 in Division. Theres a reason people are continuing to describe it as such, esp those who have played it. Theres a reason the main youtubers covering Anthem are the same people with 1000 destiny videos, and 100 previews of Div2. Your opinions on how Destiny loot isn't satsifying aside (dont mean to sound agressive, but its an opinon. The structure is exactly the same, with MMO style tiers of stats and class lockouts and rarity and all that shit) doesn't make it less LIKE destiny in many many many ways.

Edit: Bioware also isn't doing it any favors on the story front. What im talking about is already plenty spoiled by the available preview material but holy shit if they didn't just look at destiny and go 'hmm. Traveler analogue? check. bad guy who wants to steal its power? check? High tech setting with weird mysticism bullshit in a last bastion of humanity? CHECK.'

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#37 Posted by TheHT (15786 posts) -

Hmmm, thinking of it as ME3 multiplayer but a full game is actually a pretty nice way of looking at it. MEA multiplayer didn't quite hook me like ME3's.

Suddenly a lot more interested in this thing lol.

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#38 Posted by Deathstriker (1082 posts) -

@squigiliwams: You have a point, but isn't Destiny (and Divison) largely what Borderlands setup mixed with pusedo MMO elements? It's not like they invented raids in video games and those other elements. Destiny has made a lot of money, but it's so divisive it seems like a bad idea to copy it. There's potential in the subgenre: an online loot shooter, but it's not like Destiny created that subgenre. A large part of Destiny 1 was replaying the same missions over and over since there wasn't a lot of content. Anthem better not make us replay the same missions dozens of times. A Bioware dev did mention procedural created missions, which should help with that huge flaw in Destiny, but their approach could have flaws too.

Story wise, I think that's just a video game trope... and it's one that needs to stop. Halo, Assassin's Creed (until they gave up on it), Mass Effect, and others all have sci-fi fantasy, ancient aliens, save the universe crap.

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#39 Posted by wollywoo (220 posts) -

I'm not sure why, but everything about Anthem strikes me as soulless and predictable. Like something put together by producers and execs and marketing people, based on the latest metrics of what's making the most dollar bills. I realize games exist to make money, but this one doesn't appeal to me. **

** granted, since I have no interest in this I only formed this impression based on the e3 demo which I barely remember.

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#40 Posted by dudeglove (13662 posts) -

It's published by EA and has maybe the worst video game name in recent history. In other words it's got a massive hill to climb.

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#41 Posted by soulcake (2581 posts) -

At the latest Warframe Dev stream there was a dumb joke where they would rename Warframe to Warframes and call a Warframe a Javelin i thought that was pretty funny, for people how don't know Javelines are those Exoskeletons from Anthem. Also everything is a DOOM clone.

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#42 Edited by JRayder (14 posts) -

I don't know if it's ripping off other games or isn't, but this was the fastest I've ever cancelled an order. Woof. This game needs at least another year, maybe two, maybe never. Christ it is bad.

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#43 Posted by TSchwa (6 posts) -

Well, first, its EA. Second, nowadays it's not that easy to find something new and original. I reside to playing older games like Lineage 2 Clasic, RF Online and the others because of that.

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#44 Posted by nutter (1815 posts) -
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#45 Posted by Humanity (18501 posts) -

@dudeglove: I don’t know all gameplay merits aside I’ll take “Anthem” over something as cliched as “Destiny” any day of the week.

Although I hardly think a name has anything to do with a games success. StarCraft, Half-Life, Halo, Gears of War, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil etc etc. videogames have a proud tradition of nonsensical and bad names.

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#46 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (3637 posts) -

@jrayder: You know the demo build is like months old, right? Thats not what the final game will be.

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#47 Posted by burncoat (540 posts) -

From everything I've seen and heard, it looks like it's ripping off Warframe more than Destiny. Even the guns are said to feel more similar to Warframe than Destiny.

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#48 Posted by Efesell (4261 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous: I've heard 6 weeks and like yeah maybe that smooths out some technical hurdles but like if you think the game plays bad they don't have a newer different one ready for launch.

Back on subject though this is exactly what happened with Destiny anyway. Disappointing Betas and Demos that left everyone confused and saying 'Well surely they just didn't show any of the good stuff! It's fine!'

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#49 Posted by nutter (1815 posts) -

@efesell: I thought that PS4 beta for Destiny was pretty great. I played it again with friends on Xbox One and still dug it.

It was the realization, once the game was released, that “yup, that’s it” that soured people, from what I recall.

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#50 Posted by Anonymous_Jesse (288 posts) -

Played the VIP weekend. I didn't really like it.

The story area feels horrible with incredibly slow movement and boring conversations. It's like bioware forgot how to do what it was known for.

The world is pretty but so empty. Mobs disappear in front of me and it doesn't really invite exploration.

As for combat you just spam abilities and bullets at enemies that have massive hit points. They don't really move fast or challenge you. Why you would move close is beyond me. As enemies don't really come after you.

Using the movement options doesn't really work in combat. Why hover where there is no cover when you can sit behind a rock?

It's like they made all the parts without figuring out how it plays.