Apple Removes All American Civil War Games

...From the App Store. Link to the story

They removed them because they have the confederate flag and are therefore offensive?

This seem like a typical miss step from apples side sanitising with a sledgehammer and it makes little sense.

Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating the use of the flag in public on cars, belt-buckles and what not, a praxis than mostly dates back to the people opposing the civil rights moment not from the civil war. I would argue that the context of a historical games / films, etc might be the only place outside of a museum that flag belongs.

What are your thoughts?

That's pretty ridiculous. I agree that it's time to retire the Confederate flag to museums and the like, but this is pretty silly. If this is the stance they're taking, they better delete all the WWI & WWII games featuring any Nazi imagery as well. I guess people think it's impossible to simultaneously acknowledge and dislike the dark parts of history or something. I'd contend this move, though, is Apple just wanting to publicly try to show everyone how progressive they are and pat themselves on the back for it.

Maybe they are honestly want to show their support for the victims of the shooting in SC, and that's the easiest way they could think of to do that?

The response from the developer of Ultimate General: Gettysburg is worth quoting:

We accept Apple's decision and understand that this is a sensitive issue for the American Nation. We wanted our game to be the most accurate, historical, playable reference of the Battle of Gettysburg. All historical commanders, unit composition and weaponry, key geographical locations to the smallest streams or farms are recreated in our game's battlefield.

We receive a lot of letters of gratitude from American teachers who use our game in history curriculum to let kids experience one of the most important battles in American history from the Commander's perspective.

Spielberg’s "Schindler's List" did not try to amend his movie to look more comfortable. The historical "Gettysburg" movie (1993) is still on iTunes. We believe that all historical art forms: books, movies, or games such as ours, help to learn and understand history, depicting events as they were. True stories are more important to us than money.

Therefore we are not going to amend the game's content and Ultimate General: Gettysburg will no longer be available on AppStore. We really hope that Apple’s decision will achieve the desired results. We can’t change history, but we can change the future.

As a non-American I wasn't aware there was such a big hubbub going on around the flag right now. It's especially weird to me as my Dad has always been very interested in the Civil War, so I grew up with a cross-stich of a Confederate and Union flag on his office wall. One of my earliest gaming memories is him playing Sid Meier's Gettysburg.

You're not wrong, but I'll support any measure that might help ease racial tensions, especially in this day and age where the media is actively trying to incite a race war.

Kinda seems like this is all a scapegoat kinda thing but the flag is also a racist symbol so removing it from capital grounds and such makes sense .

But as a company it makes sense PR Wise. I'm for removing flags and memorabilia from stores but just like the nazi symbol if it's in A historical context then it's a non issue to me

@bollard: Yeah it's been pretty bad over here for a while regarding the flag. A crazy guy shot and killed 9 African american people inside a church during a bible study. They found out the guy was all anti 'anyone who isn't exactly like him' and he had many pictures of himself posted online holding a confederate battle flag.

I live not to far from where all this took place and it has been crazy. There is a huge fight going on over the right to fly the flag, or anything related to the confederate army in government buildings, public places, etc.

All because a crazy evil person stood up beside it.

Honestly I have no problem with them taking the flag down, or taking it out of government places.If people have turned one man's battle flag into a symbol of hate then by all means it needs to go. I just hope the history of the south's side of the civil war doesn't become taboo or anything..because I honestly agree that the only way to keep stuff from happening again is to teach of our past mistakes.

They seemed to have a taken a lesson from Johnny V, in the sense that when you respond to something, you go all the way nuclear.

So WWII games with swastikas are okay?

I feel like this is going too far. Like others have said, we can't ignore our history. Are we going to censor the Confederate flag in history textbooks now? This whole issue should have ended with any state government that still has the flag on their property removed, and that's it. If an individual wants to fly the flag, I feel like that falls under their 1st Amendment right. I have to right to believe that anyone who identifies with that flag is a racist, which I do. We can't just plug our ears, close our eyes and pretend slavery and the Civil War never happened, which seems to be what a lot of people are doing.

lol what

This is a completely ridiculous response that feels like Apple just woke up from a week long nap, screaming "WHAT'S HAPPENING WHAT ARE PEOPLE ANGRY ABOUT FUCK PULL IT DOWN."

Take a breath, Apple.

I'm all for removing the flag from stores/government buildings even as someone who grew up with the flag around in a non-negative context I always felt it was in bad taste, but games based on historical times getting shelved for having it? Quick everyone uninstall Wolfenstein.

While I support the removal of the confederate Battle flag from state capitals and store shelves I feel this is going to far. This is Political correctness run amok. Whitewashing or erasing history should be held in contempt in a free society.

Hey guys remember that only the government can censor. Large corporations can do whatever they want. This is the safe world we wanted.

I did always find it weird that a symbol of open, violent rebellion against the nation became sacralized among people who consider patriotism a huge part of their self-concept. It's like Protestant monarchists celebrating Guy Fawkes.

Wow, I don't live in America and don't pretend to fully understand the nuances of this issue, but as an outsider this seems like a society not able or willing to deal with issues like racism in society and gun control and or engaging with the troubling question of why so many mass shooting happen in America instead, in a desperate attempt to feel like they are doing something focussing on a symbol.

Again, Apple in what is probably a move that comes from a well meaning place decide to ban the one place it definitely is appropriate for that flag to be, in a historical depiction of the period it was used.

Hopefully Taylor Swift gets on the case soon...

WW2 games have Nazi flags in them so how come a Civil War game cannot have the Confederate Flag? It's historically accurate to the time.

@naoiko: You do realize the confederate flag only became a "southern pride" thing after the KKK popularized it, right? It was always a racist symbol used to protest racial equality. It was created by white people fighting for the right to own black people, and it was rediscovered by white people in hoods later on.

Yeah, the obese guy in army camo that hangs it on his truck now isn't going around lynching people, but it doesn't change what the flag represents. It's the same as a swastika.

Removing civil war games is dumb, but stores refusing to carry the flag is a-okay in my book.

The removal of the flag from government is a great thing, but this is incredibly dumb. Worse than dumb. It does damage to anything historical. I don't feel like Apple gets the point of all this.

YOU WATCH YOUR SAUCY LITTLE MOUTH WHEN IT COMES TO SHORT CIRCUIT!

Political Correctness.

I'm all for taking the flag down as a decoration, but when its in a historical videogame or in any setting where things are being represented historically its perfectly appropriate.

And Ultimate General is rad!! They deserve to be sold, apple sucks.

Well, we made it fifteen posts before a foreigner haughtily criticized the US on the whole as if racism and murder only exist in the US. If only we had more people saying smug shit from afar whilst offering no insight whatsoever, all problems would disappear!

I think its hard for someone from not the US to understand the scale and diversity of the US. The US is a country of states, each of which has it's own personality and which contains millions of citizens with their own political ideals. Each state is as big as many european countries. It's hard to change that many minds on anything, especially not on issues that people have struggled with for a thousand years such as racism. It's easy to think that because we have two major parties we only have two views on the world, conservative and liberal, but that's wrong, a Vermont conservative Republican is very different from a bible-belt Georgian Republican, put them in a room and a fight would still break out.

So yea, it's complicated here, but take down the freaking flag.

cosigned

I am all for getting rid of government and public displays of the flag, but it should be displayed in historical contexts, be it in museums or textbooks. That should be expanded to entertainment, as long as it is meant for historical purposes, such as movies and video games.

We don't erase the Nazi flag and SS symbols from Saving Private Ryan or the early Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games, because we know that they aren't expressing support for or condoning the ideals and actions that are represented in the flags. They are displayed merely to accurately enforce history, to help us learn from the atrocities that those symbols brought, so we can make sure to keep these symbols exactly where they belong: in the past.

Well those people did die of multiple flag wounds, so it makes sense if you think about it.

Ah I had heard about the shooting but didn't know about the photos. Terrible situation all round, but I agree as well: learning from past mistakes is far more beneficial than burying the evidence.

Short Cirtuit is one of the best films ever made. It's not, I admit it's probably terrible and slightly racist, but I love it.

This is super dumb, super super dumb.

For all non-Americans, political correctness in America is insane. It's been promoted so much by the crazy left-wingers over the years that it has finally caught on but now to the extent where you need to be afraid at all times of what you might say because someone may deem it to be offensive. This is especially true on college campuses, where people feel they have the right to not be offended; when in reality, offensive speech should be embraced as free speech.

I don't like removing the Confederate flag from any private source because it's just stupid. The American flag is as much as a symbol of evil to millions of people worldwide, so do we remove that? Do we remove all mentions to Nazi's because it's a touchy subject? Do we not sell the bible and Koran online because of the Crusades and Terrorism? It's just stupid. How can you logically allow Nazi memorabilia but not Confederate memorabilia? It's complete hysteria.

Can't have Swatiska's in Germany. Same deal. Cool move.

This all reminds me of a quote my history teacher had on the wall.

"Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it"

This seems like another example in the long list of moments where Apple doesn't understand or respect video games as a medium. This is an incredibly heavy handed approach that actually manages to completely miss the point of what people object to with respect to the Confederate flag. No one is protesting its historical significance. They are asking for the flag to be taken off of state buildings, just like you wouldn't expect to see the Nazi flag flying next to the German flag in Germany. More than that people are protesting the thinly veiled racism inherent in flying the Confederate flag on governmental buildings and constructing openly Confederate monuments in major cities. These games don't add to any of those problems. This is a tragically predictable mistake. Rather than listening to the nuance of people's actual complaints, a major company is blasting everything.

Lazy, reactionary move by Apple.

@notnert427

The bit you quoted literally included me saying "I won't pretend to understand the nuances around the issue". So yeh, your right I don't totally understand this issue, the way a person living in the effected county would. That's the point I made myself.

That said I have studied Criminology to a decent level so I'm not totally uninformed of the phenomenon of mass shootings. So while violence and racism occur all over the world the phenomenon of mass shooting is something that to the best of my understanding happens more in America than in other countries. I'm taking this from something I saw the president Obama say on the news the other day, which was along the lines of "America needs to get to grips with the fact that these sorts of mass shooting happen far more here than other countries" and I think the facts back that up. From memory America had more mass shootings in the last 15-20 years than any other developed country.

So, that's where I'm coming from on this, I'm genuinely interest and trying to make an observation on how this story about Apple links a larger context.

I'd like to think that both an inside and outside perspective on that can be valid and contribute to the discussion. :)

But also, this is super dumb.

I'd also like to point out that it's a bit ironic for Apple to take this stance when conditions at its Foxconn factories approximate slavery.

Knee jerk reactionary move.

Look the Confederate Flag is shitty and most certainly should not fly on government properties. But removing GAMES, of all fucking things, because they have the Confederate Flag is absolute bullshit. Instead of leaving it to the market and letting people speak with their wallets they just pulled everything. I mean if it was glorifying the south, fine. But I hardly doubt that everything was doing that. Furthermore this sets a ridiculous precedent. Where does it end? Do we not show it in movies? Or TV shows? Or how about George Washington is removed from games and movies. I mean he did own slaves. Better pull Assassin's Creed 3 from store shelves.

I want people to think about this before they say, "Hay, it's their store! They can do whatever they want fgsfds!" Apple removed games featuring the Confederate Flag.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/the-dukes-of-hazzard-season-1/id168268871

That's still on their iTunes store.

Yeah. Way to stand up for your principles, you slimy cocksuckers.

I don't think the problem is acknowledging the Confederacy existed in museums, reenactments, movies, games, or the like. The problem is glorifying what it represented and continues to represent today. A game based in the Civil War doesn't do that. It's historical. A state to choosing to raise the Confederate colors over their capitol in the 1960s to thumb their nose at the Civil Rights movement certainly is an attempt at something more ugly.

I assume they're removing all movies and books featuring the confederate flag too?

This is an extremely ham-fisted way of tackling a sore subject, but I think people are overreacting a bit. Apple usually let the pendulum swing too far when they make changes like this, but almost always level out over time. I expect that most of the games that use the flag tastefully will be restored when the developers resubmit and talk to the review board.

Okay, first of all I highly doubt that this decision is permanent. Secondly, do you remember what happened after Columbine and 9/11? Shows (such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer) pulled episodes that contained guns or violence at schools (the Buffy episode aired later that year). After 9/11, dozens of movies, video games and even theme park attractions were pulled/modified. This is not a new thing.

Also it's kind of funny that the same people who say mobile games "are for casuals" are the same ones crying "censorship" now.

They level out over time because people flip out.

This is basically how I feel. I don't see why things like that should be censored when it's used in a historical context

Yeah. Censorship. Cool move. Bro.

Also, the swastika thing, again, does not apply to films/documentaries/book/historical photographs, but whenever a swastika shows up in videogames they fucking act like it's the end times. Context is important- and just censoring all video games because they're video games will get us nowhere.