Bethesda money would have been better spent in securing 100% backwards compatibility

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senorsucks2suck

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#1  Edited By senorsucks2suck

Bethesda is nice and all but it would have been nice if Microsoft could have leveraged what is assuredly a tough time for most companies trying to save their companies and make payroll in unprecedented times and just cut that $7.5 Billion up to the point that every game ever released plays on the Series X. That would have been a bigger get than Bethesda. Hell, gamepass could just be the home of the all the original Xbox and 360 games as one accolade and honestly a few newer titles would have made that feature complete. Drip feed developers that made obscure games and just being able to answer the question of “will it play?” with an affirmative in all cases. Maybe it’s still coming. But outside of message boards do people even realize Sony and PS5 is “winning?” Each box is sold out there is no huge lead regardless of the sentiment of keyboard warriors. Poor move.

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Humanity

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#2  Edited By Humanity

That seems like it would have been a terrible use of $7.5 billion dollars and in no way help them assert a market leader position just because every Series X console can play Fusion Frenzy. People buy consoles because of misplaced brand loyalty and exclusives. Backwards compatibility has always been just a nice bonus that many people, as evidenced by the PS4 and PS5, are totally ok living without.

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senorsucks2suck

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@humanity: I think the brand loyalty is spot on. Are you flip flopping from iOS to android and then to blackberry? People do the same with consoles. The PS4 and PS5 are leveraging the same people that had a ps1 and ps2. Nothing as far as “lead” has changed. Xbox has been the plucky trillion dollar upstart that honestly has secured their place from nothing. I don’t really see PS5 success as anything but brand loyalty. In no way an assessment of facts. So many exclusives but barely a franchise transcending media (ratchet movie.. last of us tv show.. and?) to speak of.

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ll_Exile_ll

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Backwards compatibility is something people think they care a lot about but don't actually end up utilizing all that much. The most important thing for PS5 and Xbox Series X/S in terms of backwards combability is that they play the most current games, and that is already covered. The Series consoles already play all Xbox One games, and that is the extent of backwards compatibility that most people will ever utilize. A large amount of 360 and Original Xbox games people really care about are already supported. It just doesn't make any sense to spend a lot of money getting the 10-20 year old games that aren't supported up and running when very few people are ever going to care.

I just cannot fathom anyone making the comparison between a huge acquisition consisting of a several high profile studios (BGS, Arkane, id) with major and beloved IPs or getting some more 360 and original Xbox games working on the new machine. Honestly, this is one of the most baffling and logic defying takes I've seen made in a while.

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Justin258

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Is there a console wars forum leaking somewhere?

Backwards compatibility is a great feature that fills out a back-of-the-box checklist quite nicely, but selling fifteen dollar copies of, I dunno, Pariah isn't going to make anywhere near as much money as what Bethesda has hanging around.

I know that Bethesda Game Studios's output last generation was disappointing, but the games Bethesda has published and their activities during the eighth gen decidedly aren't disappointing. Wolfenstein, Doom, Dishonored 2, and Prey weren't at all disappointing and, if I'm remembering correctly, all of them were profitable. In addition to that, Bethesda has several high profile games already in the pipeline - Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI are almost certain to be big releases, Deathloop has a solid chance of being a well-received game, I'd be surprised if there wasn't another Fallout on the table somewhere, and id Software is kind of a darling on a technical level and Doom Eternal made about $450 million. That id Software acquisition comes with free use of one of the most impressive engines to come out of last generation - id Tech 7 runs incredibly well and looks great even on low-end hardware. They've also got access to a successful cross platform MMO (Elder Scrolls Online) and several mid-tier games and franchises (Evil Within, Rage, Ghostwire: Tokyo).

Oh, and Brink. They have Brink, too.

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sombre

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I don't want to play games I played 15 years ago. I want to play new games

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CrimsonJesus

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Man this is a flashback to that early 2000s internet bait you'd see on GameSpot forums and the like.

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yyninja

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#8 yyninja  Online

I think backwards compatibility has started to become a moot point recently especially when developers are running out of original games and are constantly remastering or re-releasing HD versions of games (like Mass Effect: Legendary Edition).

Let's see... Microsoft can spend $7.5 billion so they can have Elder Scrolls 6 and Starfield as console/PC exclusives, vs backwards compatibility so people can play 360 and OG XBox games on Gamepass. Yeah... I don't think this is even a fair comparison. I like the idea of backwards compatibility but it's not a system seller compared to locking exclusive games.

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Onemanarmyy

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#9  Edited By Onemanarmyy

Many people have flip flopped from PS2 to Xbox 360 to PS4. I also don't think that creating a multimedia spectacle out of the exclusive games is necessarily a goal in itself. It probably starts with a studio trying to make a good game that can be iterated on if it's successful. But hey, what do i know.

As for how relevant Bethesda is, despite the criticisms on their games, i bet that Starfield & The Elder Scrolls 6 are very high on the 'what's your most anticipated game' list of many players.

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imhungry

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"I don't understand how business or investment works."

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frytup

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Don't drink and post, kids.

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ThePanzini

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#13  Edited By ThePanzini

Interest rates are so low it much better to invest you'll see a much greater return. The $7b MS spent will not only pay for itself it gives MS one of the most valuable IP in gaming.

Given the impact covid has had on development even if MS spent the money on timed exclusives you'll have no idea when they'll actually land. Also this approach is much more expensive in the long run if you not the market leader.

99.9% of players don't care about backwards compatibility, why would any Playstation owner switch platforms because they can play games from two generations ago?

Do people realize Playstation is winning? You can't be serious in the EU & Asia the Xbox might not even exist, football and movies are plastered with Sony ads, you'll go months without seeing any Xbox related media if at all.

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senorsucks2suck

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Idk. In this COVID environment I don’t think care about ANY game coming out in the next 2 to 3 years. The zoom calls my company attempted to have were a Saturday night live sketch EVERY time. Nothing is getting done. Nothing is getting accomplished. Idk, whoever is holding the Tony Hawk American Wasteland backwards compatibility license hostage must not have been having the “boy life is perfect and figured out and paid for” existence that they had before the world was shut down. All of those companies were in talks assuredly before COVID and I bet they were calling Microsoft instead of the other way around during. Game passes numbers are overly inflated because of the number of people that converted over from gold ($60 a year) for a dollar. So people stackedand spent $60X3=$181. So in their mind gamepass is worth $181/36 months or $5 a month. Not 3 times that. As those accounts are set to expire Microsoft tried to double the Xbox gold price so they could make that next 3 year purchase be $361. So yeah. That failed big time. The people that care about the fallouts of the world are modding them and replaying them and probably don’t believe in subscription models as proof by fallout 76 death on the vine. Long story short I’m not interested in a doctor that completed his MD on a zoom call nor am I interested in games that were completed during a zoom call. Anything and only thing that will be worth a damn in the next 2 to 3 years will be remasters or Indie titles. The only feature complete games around are games already released. I’d be glad to pay for gamepass for access to an entire catalog since the original Xbox instead of the privilege to spend $500 plus $70 and play games made by the game of telephone. Or even worse to subscribe to a service that is still paywalling their dlc (fallout new Vegas) and doom eternal dlc. Gamepass is the worst critically accepted yet worst for gaming service.

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senorsucks2suck

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@thepanzini: so buying Bethesda which is more a keyboard and mouse company makes no sense. It’s not going to help them compete in those territories. This is probably the next to last if not last generation. Let PlayStation have their small victories. Cloud and mobile gaming are already here and people are clamoring for this generations boxes mostly out of fear of missing out.

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cikame

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We're talking about the same Bethesda right?
Owners of Doom, Elder Scrolls and Fallout?

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ThePanzini

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#17  Edited By ThePanzini

@senorsucks2suck: MS is not going to catch Sony thinking otherwise would be delusional, Xbox can do better is a far more obtainable goal.

Game Pass atm is two different entities console & PC, with the former being by far the more popular. If game pass is going to grow they need content that appeals to PC users because it must be close to hitting its ceiling on console.

Saying that Skyrim is the 15th most played game on Xbox, and that chart is a week behind so its not counting the new game pass additions so it'll likley be higher next week.

The only game Bethesda has which skews much higher on PC is Doom all their other content does as well on console as PC, but both ESO and F76 have much stronger following on console.

If cloud gaming takes off at all it won't be at the expense of Sony or Nintendo it'll likely grow the market, but if it does take off at all it'll do so in South Korea & Japan first like most tech does, as they already have widespread 5G and the infrastructure to support it.

Its why South Korea was one of the first beta countries for (xCloud) game pass, but that's another challange for MS in both countires South Korea & Japan they have almost zero presence especially next to Sony.

Game pass won't be the death of gaming neither will cloud, if anything cloud gaming will only appeal to gamers playing their existing content elsewhere or on the go.

Gaming is too inaccessible for most people outside the medium beyond the cost, the controller itself is a significant barrier and the language of gaming is also completely foreign.

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senorsucks2suck

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@thepanzini: you’re mistaken if you think console gaming in Korea or Japan is on the uptick for anybody but Nintendo.

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bigsocrates

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#19 bigsocrates  Online

Beyond the fact that nobody cares if you can play Malice on your Xbox Series S, and the fact that if you tried for full compatibility there would be hold outs that would jack you for a ton of money, full backwards compatibility is impossible from both a technical and legal perspective. Technically they can't get Kinect running on the Series consoles, and there are likely other necessary peripherals that won't work. So it would not be full backwards compatibility anyway.

Legally, there are a fair number of games, especially from 20 years ago, where nobody actually knows who owns the rights and it may be unclear from a legal perspective. When small companies dissolve there often isn't much thought about IP and it can be impossible to untangle who owns what. Add in things like licensed soundtracks (Which are a huge issue for relicensing) and full backwards compatibility is just not possible from a legal perspective.

Whether buying Bethesda will be worth it in the long term isn't clear, but backwards compatibility was always a PR move and it's a PR move whose time has come and gone. Proof of that is the fact that Microsoft isn't even pursuing low hanging fruit at this point. Brute Force doesn't have any obvious licensing issues but it's not BC and likely never will be.

Instead Microsoft is using a sort of semi-emulation layer to boost the performance of Xbox One games on the Series consoles, and that's going to get them a lot more buzz (and software sales) than chasing down all the music rights for those old Def Jam games.

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ThePanzini

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#20  Edited By ThePanzini

@senorsucks2suck: Not console, cloud gaming. The first beta countries for xCloud was in South Korea. Consoles over the past few years have seen massive growth in South Korea. One of Sony's main strengths has been expanding into new markets.

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senorsucks2suck

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The notch in my iPhone XR is probably Kinect equivalent so let’s not pretend like Kinect backwards compatibility is impossible. Each human generation of gamers gets lost as console generations happen. They almost lost me with the Xbox one always online antics and the microtransaction squad always online shooter of this generation and last might lose me too. Even with the Beastcast this week what are the rocket league and fortnite kids playing when they aren’t playing games? Tomb Raider? Investing in gamepass is a mistake. Ps now and it’s staganation kind of makes the most sense. Don’t have a game. Have a party and people want to play Jack Box.. let me stream it.

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Onemanarmyy

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#22  Edited By Onemanarmyy

the game industry kept growing throughout the last decades so i guess these human generations get replaced by alien generations just fine.

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Humanity

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Is this the alt account of that guy who used to post absolute nonsense like a year ago? Because I initially gave it the benefit of the doubt but reading some of these more long winded responses it's about the same level of gibberish.

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splodge

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@humanity: it really is indiscernible nonsense. Purchasing Bethesda is a no brainer for any force in the industry. The idea that 7.5bn would be better spent on backwards comparability is inane. I honestly can't tell if its trolling or not though? Console wars seems to have been leaking onto here the last few weeks

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SethMode

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@ll_exile_ll: ding ding ding.

Backwards compatibility is and always has been a news bullet point at best. No one ever actually cares about it as a system seller. It dates back to the NES to SNES even.

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SethMode

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senorsucks2suck

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#27  Edited By senorsucks2suck

&7.5 billion was a waste. For $1 Billion $2Billion $3Billlion $4 Billion they could have secured backwards compatibility and been smart with the difference. I won’t be buying a Series X/S because of it. My One-S will suffice. Doom Eternal was not successful and everybody that loved 2016 thought the new game was excess for excesses sake. I’d rather see what FFXVI does with well trodden troll and mage fantasy license then the whatever the next elder scrolls will be. Do you.

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ThePanzini

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#28  Edited By ThePanzini

@senorsucks2suck: Doom Eternal was not a failure.

It had the franchise best opening weak in sales and 100k concurrent players on steam, much better than Doom 2016.

And if this Linkedin profile is correct, it had $450m in revenue in the first 9 months of release putting Doom Eternal in the 7-9m range, which is really good.

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Efesell

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@humanity: 100% has to be. It’s like the exact same meandering baffling cadence.

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ll_Exile_ll

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@efesell said:

@humanity: 100% has to be. It’s like the exact same meandering baffling cadence.

I made the same hypothesis a while back in another thread, but the comment was removed.

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ThePanzini

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@topcyclist:MS buying Bethesda is definitely good for Xbox but surly you can't be serious as to why so many people would be upset?

A large part of the gaming audience is no longer going to have access to games from Bethesda a third party developer, without spending hundreds of dollars on a new platform.

I don't think any of the platform holders should be buying a major publisher all your doing is taking away content.

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ll_Exile_ll

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@topcyclist: I tend not to read other people’s drivel. Looking for support more than detractors. So it goes unread.

Man, if this isn't the most on point self assessment I've seen. "I don't want to have a discussion, I want other people to tell me I'm right and I will ignore everyone else."

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ghost_cat

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Onemanarmyy

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#37  Edited By Onemanarmyy

he said drivel, and 'it goes unread'. and made some allegory to 90's retail. This must be fourthline :)

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