Can Piracy be Justified

All criminals justify their crimes to themselves. 
Example. Bank robbers are stealing from the government, not the people who have money at the bank (as those people will all be reimbursed), because the government is running a war they perceive to be unjust. So there. A bank robber can rationalize their crime better than some loser in his basement on piratebay. How easy is that.

only if your an asshole

Sharing is caring, bro.

By piracy i refer to torrenting in particular.

Yup.  I download "free" games because I'm rebelling against the man.  Being against piracy is basically being against people like Ghandi or MLK.  You don't want to do that now, do you?

*cough* Activision published games.
Just saying.

NO IT CAN'T... wtf is wrong with people these days thinking stealing is alright?!

YES.  

• If it has DRM. 
• It requires you to be online to play it and the game saves are stored in their server, not your hard drive.
• If it you can't sell or give away the game when you are done. 
• If no-one makes a profit, as in, you didn't pay for it.

" only if your an asshole "

So you only pirate games if they created safegaurds to prevent piracy? Talk about eating your own tail. Hey thanks for making the experience shittier for legit consumers. By targeting games with safeguards specifically you're telling publishers they need to either give up on PC games altogether or have even more strict safeguards.

No not really even though your just making a copy and there not really loosing money (well if you wernt gonna buy it anyway) thats still theft 

DRM is not a justification for piracy, even if it's horrible DRM.

With games.... i dont really think its justified.. since if your have a modded console, your obviously doing it to get free games.  
however my justification for music is..trying out new things is hard with music since everyone has different taste.. so download it and if u dont like it.. delete it.. if u do go out and buy there album or get it off itunes or w/e. 

" I have about 4 games out there on recent release that I refuse to buy because they all require me to register it with Steam and I will not do that. "  

Depends how strict you are, since they are so many loopholes with the internet now. Don't feel like buying music? You can torrent it, or heck, stream the music off youtube!
 
What also gets into gray areas are using emulators for old games that are not even put into production anymore, because the company may not even exist!

Somebody Stop Me... 
(I don't live in a police state such as the Corporate States of America.)

I think the only game I ever pirated was the Sims 2. I bought it around when it came out, got bored and uninstalled it. When I went to play it later I couldn't find the disks, so I pirated it. I know it still wasn't really "right", but it felt justified to me. 

Not really. I mean, I'm a hypocrite since I'll do it anyway, but...
 
As for the whole, "Pirating is okay if it has ridiculous DRM", you could still buy the game and then download a crack, unless you really don't want to support bad DRM practices.
 
I pirate things because I otherwise wouldn't be able to afford anything. I get ~$30 at my birthday and Christmas time, if I'm lucky, which can't even buy a new PC game. At least if I pirate I can actually play more than 2-3 different games.

" Sharing is caring, bro. "

Nope, there are plenty of free games that you can get legally even though they worse quality than the ones you should be paying for. Same thing applies to music, we have youtube, pandora or whatever other music streaming service that there really isn't a need to download music other than you know the music already and like it enough to have a copy of, which you should of course then pay for.  
 
 
For all those that think 60 is too much for a game, then start renting. 

" @oldschool said:

" I have about 4 games out there on recent release that I refuse to buy because they all require me to register it with Steam and I will not do that. "  

What's so wrong about Steam?"

How about this?
If you pirate games, I hope you get cancer and go to the fraud or stealing ring of hell. 
You people are the reason for all the DRM and what not. You people ruined it for yourselves and everyone else.

" @oldschool: Go fuck yourself buddy. "  

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

" How about this?If you pirate games, I hope you get cancer and go to the fraud or stealing ring of hell.  You people are the reason for all the DRM and what not. You people ruined it for yourselves and everyone else. "

" @LeetBalla said:

" @oldschool: Go fuck yourself buddy. "  

I tried, but found it to be disappointing.   
 
How about stop being a corporate stooge? 
 
@trophyhunter said:

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

In your case, you have created a whole lot of new ways  :-)  Although, it appears I may be called an asshole a whole lot of times on this thread.  Boo hoo, it's breaking my heart.  "

no.
it should be obvious no!
It doesn't even matter if it does or doesn't harm the software publisher/developer! NO!
 
If they want you to pay to use their software it doesn't matter if you "weren't gonna buy it otherwise" or whatever! If you didn't pay for it, they don't want you using it. They are in their rights to choose how they want people to use their software. If they are selling it in such a way that gives you full rights over the software once you buy it... then great! Do whatever!
HOWEVER. If you click "I agree to the licensing terms" and in those terms it contractually states that you do not have full rights over this software, that it is in fact theirs, that you in fact must pay to use this software... WELL THAT IS A CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION.
Society does not work without these! If they put something into their software that is bad, that harms them, you still don't have the right to perform illegal things! They are illegal things, you are violating the software publisher/developer's rights.

" @cjmabry said:

" @oldschool said:

" I have about 4 games out there on recent release that I refuse to buy because they all require me to register it with Steam and I will not do that. "  

What's so wrong about Steam?"

It was there in my post.  You do not own the game (yes, I know you don't own "the game", but you should own the physical copy of it) and therefore, you are nit buying it, you are renting it.  If that is the case, I am not paying $100 to rent a game.  If I want to sell it when I am finished, then that should be my right.  Name me other products that you never own when you buy (not rent or lease) it?  Finished your book?  Give it back to the publisher.  Getting a new car?  Give the old one back to the car manufacturer.  Want a new television?  Give the old one back to the manufacturer.  It is a crock and no industry can justify that.  If they want to ensure that only the legitimate game is being played, then make it that the game disc has to be in the machine.  They made their profit when they sold you the game.  How dare they then dictate what you do with the product you "bought".  What happens after you buy it is none of their business.  If they didn't make their profit when they sold it to you, then that is their problem, not mine.  A CD key should be the only security it needs, as in, it won't play unless you use it.  What criminals do is not my concern.  That is a matter for the police.    People also need to understand the concept of loss.  If someone pirates a game, the loss to the company is simply the retail value of the game at most.  If the pirate never intended to buy it, then there is no loss at all.  Fine, hosting it is illegal as it it makes it available to all, but again, that is a police matter and is the problem of the site creator.  Companies should never get big payouts for n individual that pirates a game.  At best the company should get back the value of the game.  As for breaking the law, that is a matter for the courts and any fine should be much like shoplifting, as in commensurate with the value of the crime.  These payouts to companies are obscene and worse than any individual piracy matter.  I am constantly appalled by the forelock tugging of so many here in gaming world to the propaganda by the game companies. "

Of course there's a loss if someone pirates a game, not in the same way as swiping a copy from a store, but still. If 100,000 people pirate a game, it reduces the overall demand for the game. If you pirate a game, you obviously have at least some interest in the game. Maybe not $50 worth, or even $30, but say you'd buy the game for $20. You pirating the game robs the company of a potential sale when the game reaches that price.

Also, you can't really believe that last bit about people who get caught paying only the price of the game... come on dude.

Only if its not on sale in stores anymore.

" @trophyhunter said: 

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

In your case, you have created a whole lot of new ways  :-)  Although, it appears I may be called an asshole a whole lot of times on this thread.  Boo hoo, it's breaking my heart.  "

Well if you pirate games you are a horrible person.  Why don't you just steal everything and rape a few people while your at it? "

" no.
it should be obvious no!
It doesn't even matter if it does or doesn't harm the software publisher/developer! NO!
 
If they want you to pay to use their software it doesn't matter if you "weren't gonna buy it otherwise" or whatever! If you didn't pay for it, they don't want you using it. They are in their rights to choose how they want people to use their software. If they are selling it in such a way that gives you full rights over the software once you buy it... then great! Do whatever!
HOWEVER. If you click "I agree to the licensing terms" and in those terms it contractually states that you do not have full rights over this software, that it is in fact theirs, that you in fact must pay to use this software... WELL THAT IS A CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION.
Society does not work without these! If they put something into their software that is bad, that harms them, you still don't have the right to perform illegal things! They are illegal things, you are violating the software publisher/developer's rights. "

You gotta stick it to the man.

"*cough* Activision published games.Just saying. "

An item is only worth as much as its purchaser will pay for it. Unfortunately games these days (particularly in Australia) are priced too high for no reason. Piracy is essentially people refusing to pay for games. Prices come down to reasonable levels and I think piracy will drop off dramatically.

" If there's a piece of influential media that does harm, I'd say that pirating it to gain familiarity with the arguments used and develop criticism would be justified.   "

" All criminals justify their crimes to themselves. Especially people who pirate Rapelay. Total freaks. "

" @trophyhunter said:

" @trophyhunter said: 

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

In your case, you have created a whole lot of new ways  :-)  Although, it appears I may be called an asshole a whole lot of times on this thread.  Boo hoo, it's breaking my heart.  "

Well if you pirate games you are a horrible person.  Why don't you just steal everything and rape a few people while your at it? "

Thanks, I will.  Perhaps I will start at your home.  Where do you live?  :/ 
 

" @oldschool said:

" @trophyhunter said:

" @trophyhunter said: 

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

In your case, you have created a whole lot of new ways  :-)  Although, it appears I may be called an asshole a whole lot of times on this thread.  Boo hoo, it's breaking my heart.  "

Well if you pirate games you are a horrible person.  Why don't you just steal everything and rape a few people while your at it? "

Thanks, I will.  Perhaps I will start at your home.  Where do you live?  :/ 
 

bay city Michigan and I fucking dare you. "

" Of course there's a loss if someone pirates a game, not in the same way as swiping a copy from a store, but still. If 100,000 people pirate a game, it reduces the overall demand for the game. If you pirate a game, you obviously have at least some interest in the game. Maybe not $50 worth, or even $30, but say you'd buy the game for $20. You pirating the game robs the company of a potential sale when the game reaches that price.

Also, you can't really believe that last bit about people who get caught paying only the price of the game... come on dude."

"

YES.  

 With conditions: 
 

• If it has DRM. 
• It requires you to be online to play it and the game saves are stored in their server, not your hard drive.
• If it you can't sell or give away the game when you are done. 
• If no-one makes a profit, as in, you didn't pay for it.

  
Just because there is a law, does not make it justified and many bad laws exist or have been repealed.  I have never downloaded a pirated game in my life and I have been given a copy of Oblivion, which I then bought anyway.  I believe they should have better security on the games, but not DRM, so you actually own the game (meaning you cab give away or sell) and  they should stop treating consumers as the enemy.  Perhaps better incentives would help, you know, like giving people a reason to buy it (online bonuses for example) instead of pissing the consumer off.  I have about 4 games out there on recent release that I refuse to buy because they all require me to register it with Steam and I will not do that.  Consequently, they have given me good reason to give careful consideration to the "non profit" games market.  When the games are eventually very cheap (about 25% of current release price). then I will buy it.
 
@trophyhunter said:

" only if your an asshole "

You don't pirate games, but you're an asshole  :/ "

" An item is only worth as much as its purchaser will pay for it. Unfortunately games these days (particularly in Australia) are priced too high for no reason. Piracy is essentially people refusing to pay for games. Prices come down to reasonable levels and I think piracy will drop off dramatically. "

" @Ryax: you don't know who either myself or oldschool are do you? "

" @trophyhunter said:

" @oldschool said:

" @trophyhunter said:

" @trophyhunter said: 

" @oldschool: there is more than one way to be an asshole my boy "

In your case, you have created a whole lot of new ways  :-)  Although, it appears I may be called an asshole a whole lot of times on this thread.  Boo hoo, it's breaking my heart.  "

Well if you pirate games you are a horrible person.  Why don't you just steal everything and rape a few people while your at it? "

Thanks, I will.  Perhaps I will start at your home.  Where do you live?  :/ 
 

bay city Michigan and I fucking dare you. "

im all for enjoying people comparing e-peen's but you two should probably chill out "

Piracy can be justified by the fact that P2P torrenting is freakin' sharing. I fear the day it becomes a crime to play a console game splitscreen because your friends don't have copies.
 
Maybe if developers want to prevent people from pirating games, they should develop more effective DRM measures. Like what EA does with premium DLC for new copies, and Steam's digital download service. I'm more likely to buy a game when A) There's a premium incentive to buy the game or it has persistent online multiplayer, and B) When it's on sale.

" @trophyhunter said:

" @Ryax: you don't know who either myself or oldschool are do you? "

i couldnt care less. "

Having discussed this at length with a philosophical friend- yes, piracy can be justified. Because piracy doesn't deprive the producer of a good of their product in any literal sense, piracy can be justified in a case where under no conditions would you buy the game. If you are considering pirating Mirror's Edge because it is 50 dollars, but would buy it if it was $5, you cannot be justified on this model. If you are considering pirating it, but even if it was 1 dollar you wouldn't buy it, then you are justified in pirating it. Provided you do not deprive the developer of a sale, the act of piracy hurts no one.  
 
In fact, it's preferable to have more people playing your game (even justified pirates) than having less people. The more people that play a game the stronger the community around the game is, and the more likely that they will buy any sequels. 

The problem is the publishers, 
DRM = Publisher's fault 
Dev's Low Income = Publishers 
Now for statistics: 
MW2 cost $50 million to produce. 
7 million copies minimum were sold. 
Solely covering production costs Actvision would only have to charge $7.14, 
At $70 the game need only have sold 715,000 copies. 
Profits:$440 million (IRRELEVANT) 
The point is that the profits DON'T go to the dev team,  
Production costs INCLUDES their wages. 
there are 440 MILLION dollars to be divided, dev team won't see a penny of it, they are nearly payed almost nothing as it is,  
And then Activision accuses (Them not making a profit) on piracy, split $440Million among the 5,000 people Activision hires (including janitors) is a decent some for each. 
Activision fired the people behind IA (from here on the Infernal Affairs (Internal Affairs Pun (good movie too)) department of Activision (Activision from here on Activisia (Menstrual pattern (aiding) yoghurt)) before paying them royalties  
WHO ARE THE THIEVES?

" Piracy can be justified by the fact that P2P torrenting is freakin' sharing. I fear the day it becomes a crime to play a console game splitscreen because your friends don't have copies. "

" Piracy can be justified by the fact that P2P torrenting is freakin' sharing. I fear the day it becomes a crime to play a console game splitscreen because your friends don't have copies.  Maybe if developers want to prevent people from pirating games, they should develop more effective DRM measures. Like what EA does with premium DLC for new copies, and Steam's digital download service. I'm more likely to buy a game when A) There's a premium incentive to buy the game or it has persistent online multiplayer, and B) When it's on sale. "

" Having discussed this at length with a philosophical friend- yes, piracy can be justified. Because piracy doesn't deprive the producer of a good of their product in any literal sense, piracy can be justified in a case where under no conditions would you buy the game. If you are considering pirating Mirror's Edge because it is 50 dollars, but would buy it if it was $5, you cannot be justified on this model. If you are considering pirating it, but even if it was 1 dollar you wouldn't buy it, then you are justified in pirating it. Provided you do not deprive the developer of a sale, the act of piracy hurts no one.   In fact, it's preferable to have more people playing your game (even justified pirates) than having less people. The more people that play a game the stronger the community around the game is, and the more likely that they will buy any sequels.  "