Can we "canonize" any of the best games of 2005?

@bkbroiler said:

@MikkaQ said:

I think Chaos Theory is one of the greatest stealth games of all time.

Agreed. And no one gives the game credit for this, but it is so much fun to run around and just stab everyone you can in a level.

Honestly, Chaos Theory, Thief, and other old stealth games are the reason I get angry that games like MGS4 and Mark of the Ninja are heralded as "the best stealth games ever" when they're just so damned easy. At least the Assassin's Creed and Batman games have excuses for their power fantasies.

@Fredchuckdave: There are parts of your post that I totally and completely agree with, and others that I could never agree with. DMC3 is easily better than the super-repetitive and badly-laid out Bayonetta, and I really didn't like Resistance. But, to each his own.

Launches are on the mind, so the launch of the 360 isn't a terrible place to start (and is more interesting than '06, where three or four games are likely to be repeated time and again.) But you do get a totally crazy list. It seems silly to just disregard the previous generation games to just talk about the 360 launch, though, too, especially when the PC games are still technologically beyond the "next-gen games" launching with the 360. And, as time moves forward, the games releasing on the PS2 still have dramatic impact on next-gen games, and the games releasing on next-gen consoles impact the experiences one can have on the PS2. The differences here are more stark than they are in '06, but the line begins to blur more and more.

Resident Evil 4 is the correct answer.

Civ IV is the only one on there other than GT4 I played, so that.

I can't support DMC3 in this, I feel like it's been surpassed easily by Bayonetta. Might feel the same way about God of War if I ever played the sequals, but I haven't. I thought about this earlier today, actually, while playing Shadow of the Colossus for the first time in a good long while. How many games of the last generation are in fact unique and unimproved and worth playing today? I definitely think SotC is one of them, but so many games just got better or similar sequels, and it's a lot simpler to just recommend someone play that instead. When I got a PS2 a couple of years ago to pick up on what I missed, there was a very strong feeling that it was pretty pointless, even if I experienced som fun games like Okami, DMC, God of War, God Hand, Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts and Persona 4.

I'd cross Partners in Time off that list, by the way. It's not bad or anything, but it's definitely the weakest in that series. Tough to do comedy when the enemy can't speak English, and tough to time four buttons in combat rather than two like in the others.

@Little_Socrates: I'll allow you one caveat for DMC3 and that's that the Vergil boss fights are all fantastic and pretty much better than any equivalent save maybe the penultimate and secret bosses in Bayonetta; but chugging through the awful secret missions and generally poorly constructed world to get there is more than a little tedious. Also after going through one DMC 4 times to unlock every difficulty I kind of just wish I could play on DMD from the getgo since it gets pretty dull halfway through the grind. Bayonetta's control scheme, large bosses, and auxiliary mechanics are superior, though I guess you could give DMC 3 points for weapon variety if its the special edition. DMC's fanservice is also less disturbing than Bayonetta's so that's something. Both games have batshit insane storylines but Bayonetta's is superior in most every regard.

It's similar to the best argument for Demon's Souls vs Dark Souls which is centered around Flamelurker and False King, both of which are great bosses (though they have equivalents in Dark Souls) but going through some of the God awful shit to get there is less than appealing relative to just playing a generally superior game.

RE4, Shadows of the Colossus and God of War are the ones that stuck out to me. MAYBE Guitar Hero but the 2nd one was way better and diminishes its importance

RE4 is an all time classic for me. Played through it multiple times on GameCube, PS2 and Wii.

Psychonauts and Shadow of the Colossus are untouchable for me. They still hold up as fascinating, highly enjoyable games in every sense. I would add RE4 onto that short list, not because I particularly enjoy it myself, but because its impact was undeniably enormous.

@Vod_Crack said:

One word:

F.E.A.R.

Fuck yes. Absolutely love that game. Has some truly hair-raising moments in it, as well. Dunno if I would canonize it as an all-time great or anything, but it's still a kick-ass shooter.

Filtering you everything I didn't play or didn't like, I come down to this.

• Call of Duty 2: Great game then, Great game now. One of my absolute favorite shooters. And I don't like shooters. All time great.
• Resident Evil 4: Awesome back then, I still enjoy it now. Does not hold up THAT well though. Good game.
• Battlefield 2: Apparently 2005 was the year of good shooters! All time great.
• Devil May Cry 3: Bayonetta crushed this poor game. It just can't hold up to the pressure. But it's still the second best in its genre. Leaving that one up for discussion.
• Chaos Theory: Arguably the best Splinter Cell game, and the best stealth game from the era. I don't think that era of stealth holds up though. Good game.

Hah, who knew there was a year with two shooters in the top for me. I haven't really enjoyed one since then. Crazy.

Some of my favorite games of all time were released in 2005. The firs big release, for me, was The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap on the GBA. It is, without question, my favorite Zelda game.

Next chronologically comes RE4, which is so absolutely video game canon. The game blew my mind. I would nominate it for "greatest boss battles of all time." All of them are so stellar.

Shadow of the Colossus, NO DOUBT, NO ARGUMENT. This game is in my top 3. Some quick reasons why the game is awesome:

1. Unique style of progression: SotC isn't like typical action games. It essentially revolves around boss fights. There are no encounters in between each fight, you simply have to navigate the (beautiful) world in search of each enemy. You don't gain powerups or new weapons, you simply must learn to adapt to each new situation.

2. HUGE encounters: As I said, the game revolves around "boss" type encounters. Each one is massive, and in scale, few games compare. Each of these bosses is defeated in the same way, but each situation is so unique, that no two encounters can be compared.

3. It's beautiful: The artwork is fantastic. The wilderness you explore is breathtaking. The musical score is one of the best in the history of games. The world really comes alive

4. Story: Simple, unspoken, yet powerful. This is one of the few games to make me cry. It also has one of the most satisfying conclusions in the history of the medium, though I won't spoil it. Best of all, the story's themes directly relate to how the game is played.

I could go on and on about this game.

Those are the absolute greatest games of 2005, and some of the greatest of all time.

Other important releases, which I nominate based on reputation or minimal playing experience:

God of War (I played it for a few hours, and didn't really like it, but there is no denying the impact it has had on the industry)

Psychonauts (I'm about halfway through, and it's great)

What criteria? Some were interesting at the time and definitely had an impact on development years afterwards, but if we are talking "will stand the test of time"...not sure anything qualifies. I like many of these games, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. Speaking purely subjectively, I think Shadow of the Colossus and Resident Evil 4 will still be games of some interest years from now. Killer7 was deeply flawed from day one and, despite having a real cool style and creative writing, is a miserable ordeal to play and will always be a niche title. Devil May Cry 3 and God of War are good representatives of their genre, the modern beat 'em up, but that genre is already tired and I don't think will exist as we know it now in years to come so those will become even more dated. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory marks and interesting bulletpoint in the evolution of Clint Hocking as a developer and his is a voice in gaming we haven't heard the last of, but I don't think the game itself will stand the test of time (tried playing it a month ago...blech, ultra-linear stealth games really don't do it for me). Similarly, Psychonauts showcases the talents of Tim Schafer quite well, so because it is associated with his voice and legacy it will still have an audience in the future, despite some of its conventional platformer trappings and intermittent flaws.

I think that is a key distinction, games that have a strong creative voice versus those that do not. Gran Turismo 4? Battlefield 2? Call of Duty 2? Numbered sequels such as these, with no discernible character within them, won't last. They are replaced by later games that similarly serve a function rather than offer much in terms of a distinct identity. Corporately produced sequels. These can taint the legacy of an originally great game as well, as is the case with Guitar Hero, which was hammered into the ground following the initially novel Harmonix game. God of War may qualify as well, as Jaffe left and it was kind of successfully (in the opinion of some, anyway) mimicked multiple times afterwards but it never grew or changed in any significant way,.

Anyway, enough soap-boxing. I think a super small handful of games from 2005 will linger in the memories of future game developers and be cited as important influences, but these will likely be associated with generally inspiring creative talents with a distinct, unique voice behind them and not the numbered sequels and franchise-driven games that typify big-budget development. Even those handled by such creative talents will be overshadowed by their later achievements as they will be looked at as having limited creative control in such an environment. Exceptions to this postulation are already springing to mind but I think that generally will hold true.

@MURDERSMASH said:

@Vod_Crack said:

One word:

F.E.A.R.

Fuck yes. Absolutely love that game. Has some truly hair-raising moments in it, as well. Dunno if I would canonize it as an all-time great or anything, but it's still a kick-ass shooter.

I would! I hate people who called it repetitive. Yeah it was the same thing over and over but when your AI and shooting model are that good, who cares?

As far as the most influential games go I am going to say devil may cry 3, civilization 4, resident evil 4 and shadow of the collosus are the most revelatory in terms of asthetics and game design. These games effectively set the blueprint for everything that came after.

As for my favorite game from 2005 I would have to say fear or devil may cry 3.