Conversations with Dumb People

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Tidel

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Edited By Tidel

ACT I.0

Is there more to games?

Does there have to be?

So, your answer is no.

That’s not what I said.

It’s what you implied. Asking me ‘does there have to be?’ presumes the answer is no. You’re saying the question is irrelevant. I don’t think it’s irrelevant. But your answer is no, correct?

Yeah.

Why?

Why what?

Why isn’t there more to games?

Because games are supposed to be fun.

Is fun meaningless?

Yeah. That’s the point.

Define fun.

Fun is just… fun. It’s distraction. Diversion. Pointless, but pleasing. It doesn’t need to ‘mean’ or say anything.

Okay, that’s fair. Is fun the only thing games can accomplish? Their highest possible function? The point I’m getting at is -- and you’re right, fun is fun -- but the point is games and gaming are sometimes about stress, and catharsis, and challenge, and story. I think they have to be pleasant to interact with. But they don’t have to be fun, not like you’re describing it. Fun isn’t necessarily the only thing a game can accomplish. Is that fair to say?

I don’t see the point of gaming if it’s not fun. I have to be entertained.

I don’t think entertained is the same as fun -- or it doesn’t have to be, not all the time. I could say I was entertained by “The Human Centipede,” but I didn’t enjoy it. Not a second. I enjoyed that it ended. I didn’t find it fun, at all. It distracted me and told me a story, for a time. A terrible, terrible story. Don’t ever watch it.

Too late. Also, semantics.

How we talk about things is important. Language shapes understanding.

What word would you use to describe the indescribable feeling of love?

Bewf.

That’s onomatopoeia. And also wrong.

It’s subjective.

Yes. Language is subjective.

But it shouldn’t be. At least, not for all things. We need to agree on certain touchstones. Like love. The word love is there so we don’t have to get into the subbasement. There is a layer of you you will never be able to fully express to another person. No one knows that you except you. It is wholly yours. It is the thing that’s always you, no matter what.

The soul?

Maybe. Or maybe that’s a word like love.

I think games and gaming are about having fun. There are levels of fun -- it’s not an either-or proposition. It can be fun to be stressed, scared, tested. It doesn’t have to be a solid hour of “WHEEEEEEEE!” down the waterslide. It needs to be enjoyable.

And enjoyable can be many things, too.

Yeah.

Is it possible that a thing we find enjoyable can be enjoyable in different ways, for different reasons?

It would appear so.

I think that’s more.

But what more are you getting at? In writing and thinking about games? What’s the point?

There doesn’t need to be a point. It’s just fun.

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Tidel

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#1  Edited By Tidel

ACT I.0

Is there more to games?

Does there have to be?

So, your answer is no.

That’s not what I said.

It’s what you implied. Asking me ‘does there have to be?’ presumes the answer is no. You’re saying the question is irrelevant. I don’t think it’s irrelevant. But your answer is no, correct?

Yeah.

Why?

Why what?

Why isn’t there more to games?

Because games are supposed to be fun.

Is fun meaningless?

Yeah. That’s the point.

Define fun.

Fun is just… fun. It’s distraction. Diversion. Pointless, but pleasing. It doesn’t need to ‘mean’ or say anything.

Okay, that’s fair. Is fun the only thing games can accomplish? Their highest possible function? The point I’m getting at is -- and you’re right, fun is fun -- but the point is games and gaming are sometimes about stress, and catharsis, and challenge, and story. I think they have to be pleasant to interact with. But they don’t have to be fun, not like you’re describing it. Fun isn’t necessarily the only thing a game can accomplish. Is that fair to say?

I don’t see the point of gaming if it’s not fun. I have to be entertained.

I don’t think entertained is the same as fun -- or it doesn’t have to be, not all the time. I could say I was entertained by “The Human Centipede,” but I didn’t enjoy it. Not a second. I enjoyed that it ended. I didn’t find it fun, at all. It distracted me and told me a story, for a time. A terrible, terrible story. Don’t ever watch it.

Too late. Also, semantics.

How we talk about things is important. Language shapes understanding.

What word would you use to describe the indescribable feeling of love?

Bewf.

That’s onomatopoeia. And also wrong.

It’s subjective.

Yes. Language is subjective.

But it shouldn’t be. At least, not for all things. We need to agree on certain touchstones. Like love. The word love is there so we don’t have to get into the subbasement. There is a layer of you you will never be able to fully express to another person. No one knows that you except you. It is wholly yours. It is the thing that’s always you, no matter what.

The soul?

Maybe. Or maybe that’s a word like love.

I think games and gaming are about having fun. There are levels of fun -- it’s not an either-or proposition. It can be fun to be stressed, scared, tested. It doesn’t have to be a solid hour of “WHEEEEEEEE!” down the waterslide. It needs to be enjoyable.

And enjoyable can be many things, too.

Yeah.

Is it possible that a thing we find enjoyable can be enjoyable in different ways, for different reasons?

It would appear so.

I think that’s more.

But what more are you getting at? In writing and thinking about games? What’s the point?

There doesn’t need to be a point. It’s just fun.

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Dagbiker

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#2  Edited By Dagbiker

Thats not a dumb person thats some one who dosent understand your hobby. Same reason I dont understand barbie.

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toowalrus

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#3  Edited By toowalrus

Seemd like your both pretty dumb for arguing about this, people may play games for different reasons, and you need to accept that.

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Harkat

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#4  Edited By Harkat

I don't like that title, kinda attention-grabby.

And I don't like how the word "fun" is used, I think it should be distinguished from "entertaining". And I think The Human Centipede is a terrible example of "entertaining but not fun". To me, that would be something like Braid. I would never describe Braid as "fun". It provokes thought and emotion, it's challenging, it's interesting, and thus, it's entertaining but hardly "fun".

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Still_I_Cry

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#5  Edited By Still_I_Cry

I don't think it is fair to call someone who doesn't agree with you "dumb" :/

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jetsetwillie

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#6  Edited By jetsetwillie

that just read as drivel to me.

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SMTDante89

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#7  Edited By SMTDante89
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FlyingRat

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#8  Edited By FlyingRat

Well somebody's full of himself.

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Still_I_Cry

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#9  Edited By Still_I_Cry

@SMTDante89 said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

I don't think it is fair to call someone who doesn't agree with you "dumb" :/

I disagree, idiot.

Well, you're an asshole.

I used a "bad word" so I automatically win :)

End of discussion!

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zeforgotten

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#10  Edited By zeforgotten

"Conversation between dumb people" should have been the title

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deathstriker666

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#11  Edited By deathstriker666

You sound like a nice person

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deactivated-5a1a3d3c6820c

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mah balls

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BlinkyTM

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#13  Edited By BlinkyTM

@Khann said:

mah balls

His balls.

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BlinkyTM

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#14  Edited By BlinkyTM

You seem like someone who likes to pretend they're smarter than everyone else when they're really not.

The person you're talking to clearly defines gaming as a way to have fun. Why do you need to try and argue that? I think we can all agree that one defining factor of a game is it's level of "fun". You wouldn't play games if you didn't have fun/enjoy playing them. I think that's all the guy was trying to say. You also realize the terms "Fun" and "Entertainment" are totally subjective so....arguing is basically a waste of his time and maybe not yours.

This is a totally fair point:

"I don’t see the point of gaming if it’s not fun. I have to be entertained."

If you're not entertained or having fun while watching a movie I don't know why you would watch it in the first place. You're saying you were entertained, thus, you had to be enjoying yourself at least a little bit. If a movie doesn't entertain it bores. If it bores you then you are not enjoying yourself and you are not entertained. So, your argument that you were entertained even though you were not enjoying yourself is null.

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DonPixel

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#15  Edited By DonPixel

@FlyingRat said:

Well somebody's full of himself.

haha well played.

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TearsInRain

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#16  Edited By TearsInRain

@BlinkyTM said:

You seem like someone who likes to pretend they're smarter than everyone else when they're really not.

^^ This.

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lockwoodx

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#17  Edited By lockwoodx

Two people have different opinions while internet trolls sit back and judge them is what I see in this thread.

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BlinkyTM

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#18  Edited By BlinkyTM

@Buzzkill said:

Two people have different opinions while internet trolls sit back and judge them is what I see in this thread.

He asked for it...

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lockwoodx

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#19  Edited By lockwoodx
@BlinkyTM said:

@Buzzkill said:

Two people have different opinions while internet trolls sit back and judge them is what I see in this thread.

He asked for it...

Then you're not apart of the solution.
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BlinkyTM

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#20  Edited By BlinkyTM

@Buzzkill said:

@BlinkyTM said:

@Buzzkill said:

Two people have different opinions while internet trolls sit back and judge them is what I see in this thread.

He asked for it...

Then you're not apart of the solution.

Which would be...? He asked to be judged, so we judged him for what he was. Nothing wrong with that.