Do I quit BioWare with Anthem?

I still remember when I got Knights of the Old Republic. This was well before I was deep into games coverage/releases, was a big Star Wars fan and I’d read a review, maybe on IGN that got me excited. I picked up a copy on a Friday night and played it till well into Saturday morning despite my girlfriend’s complaints. I loved Knights of the Old Republic and was completely blown away by the twist, the game was absolutely right place and right time for me.

I remember being excited for Jade Empire, knowing it was from the same studio, but I didn’t rush out to buy it. Actually, I’m pretty sure I ended up getting a used copy after I went to trade a bunch of games after a break up (with the girlfriend mentioned in the above KOTOR story) and got it and a new copy of Psychonauts. I didn’t finish it till years later after I became a “BioWare fan.”

That fandom of BioWare started with Mass Effect. I’d only gotten an Xbox 360 months prior to its release and it was the game I had my sights firmly set on. I picked it up and devoured it falling for the characters and the universe. I decided to go all in here, I picked up the novels and made it my mission to get as much of Mass Effect that was within my means (I was a student at the time, so this wasn’t a lot). I played through Mass Effect about five times working through all possible permutations of story that I could, it was my game, a game I felt understood exactly what I wanted from the medium.

Of course, I was in at this point, I got the special edition of Dragon Age: Origins and adored that game despite elements I felt were a slight step back from the strides of Mass Effect (what do you mean my character doesn’t speak?) and Mass Effect 2 straight up blew my mind. I was in for BioWare at this point hard. I mean, get this, my girlfriend even gave me her old DS and my immediate reaction was to go out and buy a copy of Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood which I played and finished despite having had only the most passing interest in Sonic. Around this point was also where I finished Jade Empire.

It was Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 that gave me pause. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I still enjoyed those games, and wasn’t at all someone who raged about the ending of ME3 online, but there was something about both that didn’t quite click with me the way their predecessors had. Maybe I was starting to grow out of it? Actually, that’s probably a big part of it. I’d dropped off the outside fiction at some point after Mass Effect 2 because the books just really weren’t doing it for me. Then Dragon Age Inquisition just pushed me away with its decision to go to a gameplay format that I just wasn’t into with the open world landscapes over designed dungeons. I still finished it, it was just a struggle to maintain interest in the plot where the gameplay kept pushing me back. Of course, among other issues with the game, this design style was compounded in Mass Effect Andromeda, a game I had to fight myself to finish while working hard to give the remotest damn about the story.

That brings us to Anthem, a game I’m struggling to have even a shred of excitement for. I find the world and character design incredibly bland and anytime the story has been presented I find myself quickly tuning out. I’m just not buying what they’re selling here and unless there is a review that convinces me otherwise, Anthem will be the first (should note that I put some time onto The Old Republic) BioWare game I skip in 16 years.

Which makes me question what I do want from BioWare and the answer to that is probably something they can’t actually deliver. Simply put, I want a throwback RPG of the kind that made me fall for their games. Give me four planets/dungeons/levels (to be completely reductive), a hub to speak to my party and bookends to all that. It was a formula that worked for me in a way that these big open world spaces with large amounts of busy work present in their last two games didn’t. I also felt that this game style really got in the way of me enjoying the story that was presented and story had been a huge part of why I came to their games in the first place. Which isn’t to say breaking the mould presented above hasn’t had its success, Mass Effect 2 is great, Dragon Age 2 does interesting things despite feeling rushed out the door. At this point though, I’m just going to be selfish and ask them to go back to something simple and work forward from there. But like I said, that’s not realistic.

I don’t even know how Anthem fits into all of this, it probably doesn’t which is fine, they shouldn’t be tied down to a formula or game style if that stops being interesting to them. Weirdly, despite my lack of interest, I actually hope Anthem is a success for them as it feels like a genuine underdog at the moment. It just crystalised for me this 16 year journey and connection I’ve had with the company is really coming to a hard end. Maybe I’ll be back for Dragon Age 4, but if their end goal is to make a bigger DA:I, I probably won’t bother.

We’ll see - I’m not writing Anthem off yet but that demo isn’t great. I’m wllling to give them a chance on Dragon Age since I really liked Inquisition, but the bigger question is will EA give them a chance if Anthem sells “below expectations”?

@deckard: Kinda feels like they've committed to Dragon Age 4 regardless but a really lackluster Anthem could well and truly make that game their last chance.

@efesell: I'm not going to hold my breath - games have been cancelled in more revealed and complete states than whatever Dragon Age 4 is at the moment.

I generally don't think it's a good idea to get invested in to a company or group (unless you're actually an investor). Just buy the games from them that you think you'll enjoy and ignore the others. You aren't betraying them or anything by not buying games that you don't think you'll enjoy.

No offence to the OP, but I find it really weird that a person could form a bond with a game developer such that they could essentially break up with them. But maybe I just have commitment issues or something.

@jasonr86: No offense taken. It's written more of a reminisce on a studio who developed games I enjoyed in the past but have fallen off on despite the fact I continued to play their games. Part of it was just trying to identify why that was in written form and why I just have no interest in Anthem.

@adamstambaugh: You're right and that's certainly the conclusion I've come to. There is a larger question here of the artist against the studio (I follow film directors and authors in similar ways) but this piece was more identifying where I fell off and what I'm missing.

Bioware hasn't really shown any story for Anthem. They've talked about it a little bit, but the cutscenes in the demo were just side missions and considering those were only just side missions, they seemed more in-depth than the other loot shooters. Story isn't a big part of the loot shooter subgenre though, so I wouldn't expect a great one. Just because a developer is good at something doesn't mean they should only do that thing. Rockstar should be able to make a linear game if they want or Naughty Dog make a FPS. Bioware has already announced Dragon Age 4, so it's not like they're not making RPGs anymore. You don't have to buy all their games. You said you want a RPG, so this doesn't sound like it's for you, since it's an open-world squad based PVE loot shooter.

@deathstriker: I sort of covered this when I said, "I don’t even know how Anthem fits into all of this, it probably doesn’t which is fine, they shouldn’t be tied down to a formula or game style if that stops being interesting to them." I'm all for studios branching out and trying different things, this was more me recollecting my history with the studio's games.

My references to story come largely from the trailer they presented at The Game Awards which, and my memory might be hazy here, but they sort of implied was the first time they're showing off story elements.

It's really sad, KOTOR, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins are probably my favourite games ever but its been a slow downward slide for Bioware since those games. Mass Effect 3 was okay and able to engage with me but Dragon Age Inquisition while having good moments was a slog to get through and Andromeda just had no personality and while I really tried with that game I just didn't care about anything they were trying to do, it was not even bad it was just a nothing game.

As for Anthem, I guess I liked the demo more then a lot of people, its not really the type of game I enjoy but I liked it more then what I played of Destiny, Guess that means something.

I've honestly been off Bioware since the first Dragon Age (which I liked). But just about everything after that, including Mass Effect, didn't really capture me. And I've found the quality of writing (aside from ME 1/2) to have been on a steep decline for years. Though, I'm afraid of looking back and realising it wasn't all that different back in the day....

It is a huge bummer. I grew up on role playing games, and Kotor, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights... I wrote an essay on Bioware in high school. God. :/

It's looking pretty bleak right now, especially being under EA. You honestly might not even have the choice to quit.

Something that has been getting me about these kinds of discussions is why Bioware has to constantly make the same game for people? I don't mean that in any derogatory way, but more is Bioware not allowed to make a different game than what has proceeded? Is fandom kind of "ham-stringing" Bioware by constantly expecting the same kind of game from 5, 10, 15 years ago, when the people that made those games have largely moved on to other companies?

If Anthem had been produced by Bioware, but had gone under a different name, something like EA: Jetpack Studios, would the reception to Anthem be totally different?

I played the first Anthem "beta", and enjoyed it but could see the areas for change - will those changes come in the next few months and make Anthem what Destiny/Destiny 2 became after their first big expansions (Taken King and Forsaken)?

@superharman: I quit after Andromeda........

Anthem looks like another Destiny and I hated Destiny and now it has to compete with Apex Legends...which is free. EA IS DUMB

I wouldn't say they are under any obligation to make the "same" game. But I do think that if they want to make something else, it's incumbent on them to do it well. After playing through the Anthem demo, I wasn't put off that it was "different" or that it wasn't Mass Effect, I was put off that the game didn't feel or look very good.

Bioware had a fantastic run.

Mass Effect 3 was the first sign of trouble, where it felt like they didn’t move the ball forward. It was still a great game, but they had spent years doing new and exciting things.

I think Dragon Age 2 gets crapped on for good reason, but the storytelling, character work, and refreshingly reined-in scope were are great and a serious departure from Dragon Age: Origins.

Andromeda...I should finish it some day. It had a ton of problems, but I still enjoyed the open world, exploring, leveling, and combat.

With Anthem’s demo...I’m curious if Bioware can take two stinkers in a row at EA...I’d love to see another Dragon Age, no matter how it turns out. That franchise is cool in that no two games are remotely similar, so far...unless you consider Awakenings a standalone...

@therealturk: Oh I get that, I'm just wondering about how much projection is being put on to Bioware to keep making the same Bioware game, albeit with diminishing returns?

I enjoyed my time with Anthem, but can definitely see places for improvement (that social space in particular). Now how much of that is based on an old build, or wasn't properly optimized is a question we'll see answered on the 22nd.

I am just getting a feeling that Bioware gets no slack to try something new, and wondering if Anthem had come out under a different studio name if they would be getting as hammered ahead of the release.

I also have for the last few Bioware releases wondered how much of EA screwing around in the background affected those games, particularly ME3 and ME:Andromeda. Were these games placed under unfeasible expectations and then starved of time and resources (Andromeda anecdotally seemed to have these issues) to get something out on shelves.

Meh, don't mind my ramblings, just watching Toronto get hit with our 4th blizzard in 2 weeks.

You know, not buying a developer's games is not like going through a breakup. You can always skip one and then buy the next if it interests you. Personally, I'm hoping BioWare learns from Anthem's negative-ish reception and goes back to what they are best at: interesting worldbuilding and character-focused stories.

I think BioWare hasn't been its best since the KOTOR days. I enjoyed ME but it was pretty formulaic. Dragon Age 1 was pretty great, but the story seemed a bit shallow (although I never got to finish it because my hard drive crashed halfway through.) Dragon Age 3 was... off, somehow, to me. It had way too much focus on Game of Thrones-style political intrigue without doing anything to earn my interest in it, and the combat was a mess. I lost interest after about ten hours or so.

Still, I have hope. There are plenty of talented people there. I hope they scale back their ambitions a tiny bit and make something slightly smaller and more focused, with a unique setting.

Oh the drama...

It feels like everything that was special about Bioware is long gone. After the Mass Effect 3 fiasco, the snooze fest that was Inquisition, and the shit show that led to not even finishing Andromeda I won't be giving them anymore money. I don't want to see them go out of business or anything crazy, their games just aren't for me anymore.

The combination of your comment and your avatar is great

Taking risks on new IP is always a gamble. Even existing franchises have to evolve or the player base will stagnant/shrink.

Wanting a studio to stay as they were and not evolve is a direct road to failure. Especially as markets and player base shifts.

They same exact blow back for 'make Mass Effect not Anthem' happened over and over again when it was 'make Star Wars not Mass Effect' or 'make NWN not Dragon She's

If you don't like a product choose something else, we are spoiled for choice.

I can relate to this, as someone who used to consider Bioware his favorite developer, although I think I "broke up" with them around the time of DA Inquisition. They were kind of the only Western RPG game in town for a while, but there's a lot more out there these days and I don't think they've kept up. On the AAA side, you have stuff like The Witcher 3 (not to mention the part where every other big game these days has RPG-lite mechanics and a heavy emphasis on storytelling. Hell, Assassin's Creed has dialogue trees now) and on the smaller end of the scale you have the CRPG Renaissance making fantastic successors to the kind of games that put Bioware on the map in the first place.

In some ways, even with a shift towards more mainstream action-oriented gameplay and big open world stuff, Bioware's style of writing has never really progressed that far beyond what it was doing with KotOR in 2003 (other than being able to romance pretty much whoever you want) and I think it sticks out a lot more. That is all my own hot take, but I do feel like the easy story of blaming everything entirely on EA corporate mandates ignores the part where everyone else got better along the way.

I will echo this sentiment.

I feel like CDPR, Larian Studios, Obsidian, and perhaps InXile are filling the Bioware void exceptionally well, perhaps making stuff that's better than anything Bioware themselves ever put out.

I personally lost faith after the Doctors left.

I feel like Inquisition is either i tentionally left out or forgotten about in these dicussions.

Inquisition is literally one of the best Bioware games and, with Trespasser, one of their strongest achievements in writing. Solas is one of the best written characters in all of gaming and ive seen very few that equal the amount of depth theyve woven into his character.

Its also the last game the Edmonton studio made and i dont think it's evidence of a downward trend at all.

I think you mean "subjectively." While DA:I wasn't terrible by any means, I personally wouldn't place it in my Top 5 or 6 BioWare games. The entire Mass Effect trilogy, DA:O, KOTOR are all arguably better games than DA:I. Because I've got a weird soft spot for it, I'd also put Jade Empire above it, too. I thought it was fine, and not much more than that.

Anthem feels very much like a repeat of Andromeda's mistakes. Aside from the combat gameplay which seems to be engaging enough, the major flaw I see is that there is not enough of an establishing story to bring the player into the world. The writing and editing of the dialogue is very stilted and arbitrary. The whole reason Mass Effect, Dragon Age etc were all successful was because they provided an engaging entry ramp into the game and helped the player understand their place. This gave you impetus to explore and engage with the world around you.

All the pretty particle effects and shaders in the world aren't going to cover up the messy soul of a game and it doesn't look like there is any reason to care about this one. I hope Bioware Edmonton can break out of this obsession with cliched banal cash cow production and actually try to create something with an engaging story again.

It seems to have a problem that a lot of game stories have where the story is sort of delivered "at you". Lots of weird lore is just sort of thrown at the player about "shapers" and you're just kind of like... K. Whatever. I'll have to experience the narrative for myself next week, but I'm not exactly expecting something universally interesting like murder and conspiracy to immediately grab my narrative attention. I'm expecting a bunch of video game gobbledey gook that I'll never ever care about as much as they want me to.

@justin258: How long until Bioware is making sequels to Obsidian games?

I kid.

@superharman:

@superharman: Since i do not buy games day one (I always have a backlog) I have had an on-off with Bioware in the sense that I will always buy their games, unless they come out and get panned and people stop playing. Then i will get them later... The only exception to this has been DA:2

I was planning to look into Anthem after i finished Andromeda - the gameplay of that was very good and kept me playing all the way through and all across that galaxy. Ongoing shooters arent my thing but they still keep me on the hook.

It looks good to me, but what do i know about that genre :)

At the company's present state, I kinda hope they don't? They haven't put out a legitimately great game since Mass Effect 2 - everything else has been "good, but with a caveat" or just plain bad. Meanwhile, Obsidian seems to have hit a stride they've never had.

Also, yes, I do know the joke.

It is worth noting that Bioware got their start making a sci-fi mech game. I mean, yeah, it is still very different from Anthem, but not quite as much of a leap from RPG's as you might think. They haven't made an always-online, loot-focused multiplayer coop MMO-lite thing, though. Also I doubt that anybody who worked on Shattered Steel still works for Bioware.

@justin258: Yeah, ME2 was the last great game they made, though I do think Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2, and Dragon Age Inquisition were all very good, if not exactly great.

I have a soft spot for Dragon Age 2’s more focused storytelling and scope. I get that the combat and dungeons were subpar, but I appreciated the system around the protagonist’s tone and the story/character work immensely.

@daibakuha: I did highlight DA: I in my piece, it was sort of a falling off point for me personally because it started their focus on less designed dungeons and more open world spaces which I didn't care for and made me feel a little distanced from the game. Unfortunately, because of the issues I had with it, I didn't get the DLC which is a bit of a shame because I've heard it's good.

I think the point you should be raising though is that DA:I was extremely popular and even won a number of game of the year awards. I agree that people saying Bioware have been on a downward trend since ME3 is a little shortsighted when you take into account DA:I and what felt like a positive critical reaction. (despite what I thought of it personally)

@nutter: I didn't really get to go over DA2 too much above (because it was already getting a bit long) but I agree with you, the story structure was good and they had some solid ideas but it was completely let down by the dungeons. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the critical reaction to that game stopped BioWare from experimenting with smaller ideas and immediately went back to the "saving the world from evil" plots they're used to.

Back when I first played them, Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins were these weird, new experiences unlike anything I'd played before. Origins especially, is this enigma of a modern CRPG that nobody else (even Bioware) has captured since. Two of the most memorable games I've played to this day, rose-tinted glasses be damned.

Anthem is just... I can't even be bothered to get upset about it. It comes across as the most uninspired, generic, modern-day video game ever. I probably won't even remember it exists a month from now. It's not a good indication that I thought the last 3 big games they put out were bland and/or outright bad, but they still have the rights to two of the best video game universes so I'm not ready to call it quits just yet.

Also I've never been big on Star Wars, but apparently I need to go back and give KOTOR a shot.

@superharman:

I think if you have to even ask the question, you already know the answer.

Personally I see no harm in just waiting longer and paying less to play these games. Back in the day I used to be Day 1 with every Final Fantasy game, but I've been let down enough by them in recent years to be fine waiting till they've been out a while if I'm not sure.

Doing so lowers the expectations and the stakes for you. Frankly it makes it easier for me to enjoy an imperfect game. If DA4 is like previous DA games, there will probably be a GotY edition for like 20 bucks 1-1.5 years after release. Then if it sucks, it's not a big deal. I paid around 10 bucks for Andromeda, wasn't my bag, so felt no regrets just moving on from it when I got bored.

if that approach isn't something that would work for you, I don't think there's any harm in moving on. Your tastes change over time, Game companies change over time, creative teams change. The Doctors aren't at Bioware anymore, Casey Hudson is, but they've had a lot of turnover there. It is essentially a different company now than the people who DA:O. Very few things in games are like Super Mario bros, which has had Miyamoto at the head for 30 years.

@teddie: Like I said above (although it is extremely reductive) KOTOR, DA:O and Mass Effect are structurally the same game with different skins and combat. Prologue area, Four dungeons/planets/levels you can do in any order and then a final mission.

Which isn't to say that breaking away from this structure hasn't been successful, Mass Effect 2 largely kept this core, it just didn't give you a choice on the four planets instead giving you choices around your crew members. But as they get further away from that, I've just become nostalgic for what we had...for admittedly 4 games (if you include KOTOR2 which keeps the structure despite not being a BioWare game).

I think BioWare were just too reactive to the success of open world games and Bethesda RPGs and decided that their games needed to be bigger. It's also hard to argue that it didn't work with DA:I with the success that game saw, it just wasn't my thing.

I've given up on Bioware as I figure all the people who gave their games the polish and depth we grew up with are long gone by now. It's just a corporate machine flogging the sequels off for as long as they can get away with it...

Both conceptional and from an execution point of view Fort Tarsis is probably the most lifeless hub I ever encountered. Going from the citadel to this is just mind blowing.

I get this isn't supposed to be an action rpg like Mass Effect but ME managed to get me excited for its universe immediately once it allowed me to roam the citadel. The way it was used to introduce you to the different races, characters and factions made you want to know more about the world.

In contrast Tarsis sucks all energy out of me - it's just so uninspired, all interactions are so formulaic. It not being a social hub highlights its flaws even more.

This is really really heartbreaking stuff to hear. Especially because Anthem as a concept does have potential.

I wish you could dog fight while you're flying around, like Iron Man in the battle of New York. Why build flying into the game itself if it's just a way to travel and doesn't actually play into the combat loop? Warframe lets you fly and fight...

I tend to "quit" companies until they make a game I like again.
I really didn't like ME3 and everything they've put out since, so it's been a while for Bioware.

They killed mass effect, so yes. This isn't Bioware anymore, you're not quitting anything. They've had years to turn this around, and have gone in the wrong direction when its so painfully clear what their fans want.

I am not a bioware enthusiast, I am not even an Anthem enthusiast, but what I can say probably, is yes, care less about Bioware. If it's a beloved studio, and Anthem isn't doing it for your Bioware needs, then yeah, maybe it's time to let go. I don't know what tasks were divided up between studio sections between conversation choice (which feels largely there because they felt it had to be), while the gameplay side of Anthem I find to be a lot of fun. So, on one end you have a reductive and irrelevant version of what Bioware fans know for story and world building and character importance, which I agree, is not strong; but on the other, you have a more than competent (imo, fun) action shooter with more than passable dressing around the action. It's better than titanfall 1's radio play, but people still liked titanfall. I think only because it's Bioware that Anthem is viewed as a failure on Bioware's previous successes around building relationships and dialogue trees etc. Remove all of how important that stuff made those games- and if you're able- come to Anthem without the baggage of past Bioware games in the front-brain, my take away is Bioware didn't totally stick the landing here, but I would say they qualify for the next heat at very least, branching into territory more focused on how the game plays, instead of the politics or relationships within it. I understand why this is a bummer for long-time-bioware-masseffect fans, but for me, with none of that as a hangup, I don't see Anthem as Bioware's 'big ultimate failure', so I wouldn't say you should give up on them, only that perhaps your reverence for what you expect out of them may need to change with how they do. This is optimistic, I realize, and again I am very sorry for fans who wanted more Mass Effect in their Anthem, or whatever expectations weren't met for them, but honestly, I like Anthem, Bioware made it, so inversely from the OP's title, I am NOW a cautious Bioware fan, where I honestly was never a fan of their games before. Weird, right?

I’m a giant fan of dragon age 2. Mass effect 3 I still didn’t like as well as 1, but it’s a great game.

Anthem and fallout 76 are obnoxious for me because anyone can and does spew out deathmatch games which I have zero interest in, but these developers can make stuff no one else can, and are wasting their time.

But I’m back if they release a game ic are about again.

I considered myself a big BioWare fanboy until Dragon Age 2. That seems to be when things started going downhill and never really got better. Dragon Age: Inquisition brought back some decent storytelling, but the repetitive, boring open world design really hamstrung the fun that could be had. I'm curious how the new Dragon Age fairs after what looks to be the failure of Anthem.

@sarnecki: I mean you can fly and fight if you want. You are going to be shot a lot because you are a big target hovering in the air raining bullets but you can certainly try it out.

@sarnecki:

I hover to use my ult on the colossus Javelin. You hover as storm all the time because your shield is actually enhanced while hovering. You don't dogfight, attacking while flying instantly puts you into hovering, but you can go right back to flying after shooting or lobbing a special out. Technically I can attack while flying as the colossus; with your shield out and running around you bowl over enemies and do damage, this applies while flying as well. A fun combo when I'm going to take on just one elite enemy perched up or alone is I'll fly at them with my shield out, and as soon as it hits melee which drops me to the ground. You can not actively fly around and attack though, no.

Death match? It is online, but no part of anthem is against other players.

Yeah, I still kind of consider myself a fan of bioware despite not having finished a game by them since Mass Effect 2.

I'm ok with them doing different things but I've gotta say that my interest in these kinds of loot shooters is basically nonexistent. While I understand they're not going for a deep RPG with this one it's still a shame that they couldn't have done better on the world building and character development to stand out from the other looter shooters.

As it is, it seems like it has to compete very directly with the shooting of games like destiny and from what I've seen it can't really do that, nevermind do anything to surpass those games. It hurts me to say this but I agree with Wolf3; i look at Anthem and think how terrible it is that a studio that used to excel at it's own thing is now struggling to keep up with better games in a crowded genre.