Does SaltyBet count as a "game?"

it's the game of kings

it's better than diamond rings

it's the game of kings

it's better than diamond rings

Is betting on sports a game? No? Then I don't think this is. Seeing as it's the same thing but with video games and fake money.... I wouldn't really class that as a game.

There's a goal, you can win or lose, it can be fun. Yes it's a game.

Game: activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

I DENY SAID STATEMENT.

I approve of this one, though.

It depends entirely upon your definition of the word "game." If your requirements are similar to something you'd find in Super Mario Bros. or Halo, then yeah, it isn't a game. You have little to no control over anything that happens on the actual website, and unless you've made millions, you don't have a significant enough pile of cash to push things one way or the other.

If you consider Merriam-Webster's definition, "activity engaged in for diversion or amusement," then it's totally a game. A staring contest is as much a game as is the stock market, for some people.

Also I don't think you level up based on win percentage, I think it's totally based on number of bets, win or lose. I know I've been in the mines for a long while, getting a couple bucks more every so often.

I had the same thought 5 minutes into using it. It scratches the same itch, so... sorta?

My vote is on yes though.

I vote yes. It's the most dangerous game.

It's a game, just not that kind of game. I have been neglecting actual games because of Salty Bet, though. It just fuels my love of gambling without the financial ruin.

No

Better question: is Salty Bets art?

If you have no way to affect the outcome, it's not a game. Poker is a game, going to the track is not.

I guess it technically would be. You're engaging, albeit very loosely, in a recreational activity competing against others in which you desire a favorable outcome. I never really thought of something as simple as betting on races or fights to be a 'game', but in the loosest sense of the term, it is.

But surely by those definitions, SaltyBet is a game? Action: Make a bet. Outcome: Win or Lose money based on bet made.

I'd say SaltyBet is as much a game as Rock, Paper Scissors or something like that. It's not a video-game, obviously, but yeah it's a game in the traditional sense of the word.

It sure does.

I consider betting to be a game. SaltyBet is definitely not a video game, as there's no form of interaction that directly affects the action, but there's enough of a structure to SaltyBet that makes it a regular game.

If we're talking the GB wiki, Salty Bet would go under concepts rather than games.

Its not much of video game game but it sure is a casino type game.

I can totally see some sort of art exhibit where they run salty bet on a big touch screen and allow visitors to cast bets.

I can see the conversation now. What does it day about humanity that we make rudimentary A.I. fight each other. What of the Salty Buck? What makes it less real then our real money also mostly exists only as numbers on a server somewhere? What does it say about us they were are willing to risk it as if there is a never ending supply. What does all the blatant copy right infringement say about culture in the internet age? What does Brazillian Goku vs Japanese Captain America say about the effects of Globalization?

So is Salty Bet a game? That depends on if you consider life a game.

It's not a video game, but it's definitely a game.

@ravenlight said:

I agree with this.

It's no less a game than Blackjack

It's a service that can be used in multiple departments, not just MUGEN.

Art in its highest, most pure form.

Should Salty Bets talk?

In basically every discussion about whether something is really game, it always ends up boiling down to the fact that there is no one definition of a game, so under some definitions SaltyBet would be a game, and under others it wouldn't, but I think the majority would consider it a game. I'd call it a game myself because it has player options, tactics, resources, and an end goal.

Yet its existence depends entirely on video of a video game. Unless people are doing fantasy Mugen drafts on paper when the stream is down. What it is not, is interactive. It's sitting in a bar, cheering for your team and buying rounds.

Anyway, the gambling industry has always called itself the gaming industry, so it is arguably we who are appropriating these terms incorrectly. Video games might be bigger business than hollywood some years, but they will never be bigger than casinos. Case in point, more pachinko parlours than arcades in Japan. More slot machines than pinball tables at Las Vegas airport. If you've never been into a real casino, the production value for video gambling is massive. The kinds of machines you see in a local bar are basically 1982 Atari by comparison.

I have no doubt @patrickklepek could find some people who bring home their salary designing chance games, while pining away (or have given up) on independent projects.

No, but is it gambling?

I think you'e focusing on the wrong part. The AI vs AI fights are not a game. Everything except the actual fight is the game.

I'd like to offer a metaphor of my own: It's being part of the crowd that destroys the town after the big game. Forever.

It's a video game but you watch it instead of play it.

So is video poker a video game?

It's already GOTY, stop arguing.

$50 on the idea that it's a game!

Don't fail me now poll!

It's a 'game' but not in the sense we usually mean. It belongs in the same category as fantasy football etc.

@ravenlight: Hm. I don't think I am, actually. Though maybe it sounds that way. I do see the meta-game level of "watching over someone's shoulder". My point is video in the strictest sense is an integral part of playing, and the term Video Game is used more strictly than it should be. Replace Mugen with an outcome-unknown sports match and it's still Salty Bet. Replace it with a table of stats data you need to check every week and it's not Salty Bet. Observing the outcome in real time is inherently part of the experience, as is the chat, and both will influence the next decision a player makes.

There are video games with a similar small degree of interaction (observation and response), that use decision-making within a timed period to observe the outcome. Recorded FMV games are a basic case: "I bet that "B" is the right decision. If I'm right I advance, if I'm wrong I have to start over." Games like Man Enough are barely interactive because you don't influence the outcome, you're gauging which option will have the outcome you want. Your knowledge of the options affects your success. If I don't understand the humour or the stereotypes I won't pick the best options. If I don't understand the athlete or the fighting character's abilities, I won't pick the likely winner.

I appreciate your metaphor describing the Salty Hooligan. :)

@ravenlight: Hm. I don't think I am, actually. Though maybe it sounds that way. I do see the meta-game level of "watching over someone's shoulder". My point is video in the strictest sense is an integral part of playing, and the term Video Game is used more strictly than it should be. Replace Mugen with an outcome-unknown sports match and it's still Salty Bet. Replace it with a table of stats data you need to check every week and it's not Salty Bet. Observing the outcome in real time is inherently part of the experience, as is the chat, and both will influence the next decision a player makes.

There are video games with a similar small degree of interaction (observation and response), that use decision-making within a timed period to observe the outcome. Recorded FMV games are a basic case: "I bet that "B" is the right decision. If I'm right I advance, if I'm wrong I have to start over." Games like Man Enough are barely interactive because you don't influence the outcome, you're gauging which option will have the outcome you want. Your knowledge of the options affects your success. If I don't understand the humour or the stereotypes I won't pick the best options. If I don't understand the athlete or the fighting character's abilities, I won't pick the likely winner.

I appreciate your metaphor describing the Salty Hooligan. :)

No, I don't think it's a game. Just like going to the race track and betting on races there isn't a game.

Hmm, you will note that "racing on a track" is in itself a game.

Gambling isn't a game.

I just want to chime in and say that by the technical definition of a game, SaltyBet is one.

There is an objective (get more money)

There are possible outcomes which the player does and does not desire(you do get more money, you lose money)

There are strategies that you can enact which increase the likelihood of winning or losing (learning what the characters do, how their AI is written, how they match up)

In general, these are the major agreed upon components of "being a game" in academia.

And now you know.

If the chat is any indication, no way. :P

@nintendoeats: Wow, those are terrible. It means literally everything can be a game. I have the objective to catch the bus to university, with the outcome that it comes on time and the outcome that I miss the bus that I do not desire and my strategy to catch the bus is to get there 10 minutes early, or look up the bus timetable online so I know exactly when it will be there.

Catching the bus - five stars, would play again. Bus pass DLC incoming.

Oh King, you lovely Lunarian bastard.

More importantly, is it art?

Doom isn't a game.

It's not a game. IT'S A FUCKING WAY OF LIFE.

(and a game)

In fact yes, it is. The consequences can be far more dire due to real money being involved, but gambling as a whole are games of chance.

Yes, literally everything can be. Remember when you were little, and to motivate you to do one thing or another, your mom tells you to "make a game out of it"? That phrase doesn't exist without reason. If I want to make a game out of whether I can catch the bus or not, then it's a game for me. Intention is very much a part of it.

Gambling is a game, a "Game of chance".