Female Representation In Games: One Man's Perspective

As I was pouring myself a glass of soda the image of Jordan Belfort ([The Wolf Of Wall Street] as played by Leonardo DiCaprio) doing coke out of the ass of a woman covered the screen. I didn't react to it, I mean, isn't that what financially successful men do on their off-hours? My wife though, let out an audible sigh. It wasn't a sigh of shock or annoyance, but a sigh utter disappointment. A surrender to the tired old story; men are really cool and women are there as evidence of that fact. As the movie progressed my mind quietly asked me; what is it about mens' perspective that's so interesting? When was the last time I saw a movie, played a game or read a book that wasn't centered around the world seen from the perspective of men?

A quick glance behind me reveals a rather fascinating statistic. It’s been staring me right in the face for a long time, but you don’t see the problem you're not looking for. With my Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 shelves containing some hundred of games, I counted the games that fit the following criteria;

• Main character is female.
• Multiple playable characters with different genders does not count.
• Sports games does not count.
• ”Option to play female” does not count.
• Silent first person protagonist does not count.

Total games; 3. Flipping the gender restrictions around I get around 20. And I would like to think I didn’t miss many notable games last generation. Some part of me finds this disturbing, but understandable. I am a man and as such will likely not reflecting on when I am playing a man. Yet I somehow am not reflecting nearly enough on the fact that I very rarely play a female lead. Like my criteria above states, I don’t approve of ”gender choice” games because those characters are written as neutrally as possible and usually with a general ”male” vibe to them. They are there more for you to project yourself onto them than being characters with their own motivations. That makes the amount of female leads in my collection around 13%. Which is close to where movies are at, which according to a recent study (source) found that about 15% of protagonists in the top grossing movies of 2013 were female.

So I ask, why are we so fascinated by the lives of men?.. or are we?

I realized also that a big portion of that selection of games were in some form action games with heavy focus on combat, war or death. And men have been seen throughout history as the warriors. The useful troops of good against the hordes of evil. Disposable troops, mind you, but men all the same. A man's value in games thus seem proportionally set to how much of a loss he is when he dies or how powerful he is in being successful at his goals. Or maybe he as an individual has no value at all. Make More Marines.

We still champion the ideal of the honorable sacrifice, but how much value does disposable objects have?

But men get things done, right? They carry the world on their shoulders, they look at the approaching hordes with a smile because their might is unrivaled. But how many times are hollow power fantasies fun?

Taking those 20+ games and removing "Alpha male in combat" I get maybe 3-4 games left. And some of those are borderline disqualified still. And to be fair, if I removed "Alpha women in combat" from the female leads bunch I get one game; Beyond: Two Souls. And to be fair, I just realized she's linked to a man of sorts and should be disqualified.

So are men's lives more interesting, or are they just stuck as the default action figures?

When people started talking about a more diverse representation in games (and I realize this blog is gender specific on women and not the issue of representation as it becomes more complex, but that's a different blog), I completely agreed with that sentiment. Not because I had yet reflected just how statistically lopsided it was in my own collection, but because I'm all for the exploration of new ideas, concepts and viewpoints in my entertainment. Because, to quote my coworker; "You don't want to eat just rice every day. Some days you want pasta, another day potatoes." Granted, he was trying to justify cheating on his wife while I was chuckling at him for being a real piece of shit. But the metaphor is true, if you keep doing the same thing over and over, you'll never question your outlook on life. And you'll end up just standing around in the same place, never learning anything new. Sure, there's some stability in staying completely rigid and never looking at something from a different perspective. But really, the earth isn't flat. Sometimes it's good to consider a different view of things.

It's a new generation of consoles. The barrier to entry as far as game development goes is lower. As a man, I hope to one day be able to point to my collection and tell my wife the medium is finally mature enough to handle stories from all walks of life and it is inclusionary to everyone looking for something that speaks to them. And her response isn't just shrugging of the shoulders while she smirks, looking at me and saying "..oh, video games.." in a disappointed tired voice because it's not true.

Well, generally speaking men are more aggressive and violent. So it makes sense a games violent "warrior" type protagonist would be male. It's just the way humans evolved as a species and society. A remnant of our primitive males = hunters/warriors and females = gatherers/caretakers social structure.

Don't get me wrong, im absolutely for more female characters in games. I'm just saying since its more natural for a male to be violent than a female and most games are fairly violent. That's just how humans are.

I don't really think its a matter of maturity. A violent male is far easier to believe than a violent female, because thats how the real world is. So it does make sense logically that most action "heroes" are male. That being said, gimme a badass Ripley / Sarah Conner style lead lady in a game and i'm totally down for that.

Throughout a lot of fictitious media, men seem to dominate the space when it comes to tales of bravery, courage, strength and triumph over evil. Video games are obviously growing right now, warranting the expectation that they might become more inclusionary, and so far, this industry hasn't been doing well when it comes to that.

As a white man, I'll say that I'm bored of "Generic White Male" at this point. It's boring most of the time, and if it isn't a direct creative choice, it feels like a guy in a business suit was responsible for the character being some white dude. A character like Bayonetta is infinitely more interesting than New Dante.

@pezen Your comment at the end, "I hope to one day be able to point to my collection and tell my wife the medium is finally mature enough to handle stories from all walks of life and it is inclusionary to everyone looking for something that speaks to them.", I believe that this might not be the case with AAA development, but because of the indie scene, we're already reaching this point. The indie scene has produced a refreshing amount of games that are different and inclusionary. Games like Cart Life, Gone Home, and Depression Quest have shown that games can tell a mature tale for anyone to experience. We just need more games like that, I suppose.

Why? Because the industry is still male dominated both in terms of audience and creators. Also I think sure, the picture is going to look bleaker than it actually is if you start putting a dozen bizarre filters on it. Is there a problem sure, you could argue that but its not nearly as bleak as everyone is making it out to be. And I've talked to ladies I know working IN the industry that feel the same way. I also think there is way to much focus on "The main character" just because they are the "main" character doesn't mean they are the "best" character. Getting caught up in that is just pedantic bullshit.

There are plenty of movies and video games where the side characters are the one who steal the show and a lot of those times those characters can be and are female. Take for instance a recent example of Fetch from inFamous Second Son. She was the best character in that game. Not the main character but the best character. But you know, lets not count her because she wasn't the main character right?

I think there is a market for those kind of games and it is served, the fact that your game collection doesn't contain many of those games is a reflection of the fact that you're a man.

(also your criteria eliminate a lot of games that do appeal specifically to women)

This isn't just a game issue. Outliers like Lucy aside, the vast majority of summer action movies, the logical comparison to most AAA game releases, are fronted by men. Most fiction I read has a male lead character. Women feature prominent roles in some high profile works, but generally as a part of an ensemble cast. It probably has a lot to do with the reality that the people consuming these forms of entertainment fit into certain demographics and that there is a sense that characters need to be relatable in order for the product to have a great chance of succeeding.

@demoskinos said:

According to the ESA, the games audience breaks down along gender lines at 45% women, 55% men as of 2013. Saying that the majority of players are male — while technically still true — is no longer a valid excuse for the almost complete monopoly men have on representation.

Edit:This year's report has the gender breakdown even closer at 48% women, 52% men.

You're right that the main character isn't necessarily the most interesting one, but more often than not they are the hero and focal point of the story and so by definition one of the most important. Having women as supporting characters is also crucial, but that shouldn't be at the expense of them taking centre stage in a game's story.

Why does a game that lets you choose to be a chick not count if it is a reasonably different experience? Games like Persona 3 Portable, Mass Effect and Fire Emblem Awakening change a ton of the dialogue if you choose to be female.

As a man, I hope to one day be able to point to my collection and tell my wife the medium is finally mature enough to handle stories from all walks of life and it is inclusionary to everyone looking for something that speaks to them. And her response isn't just shrugging of the shoulders while she smirks, looking at me and saying "..oh, video games.." in a disappointed tired voice because it's not true.

You do the same thing when talks to you about beads or scrapbooking or feminine hobby x. Just accept that she doesn't care about the same things you do and it's got nothing to do with politics, and you'll both be happier.

Trying to get girls interested in games (who are not already interested) is, in my experience, a degrading activity for both parties. Just enjoy what you enjoy and let her express an interest if she likes. That dismissive tone she is taking doesn't mean "video games aren't inclusive", it means "I don't care, don't bother me with this".

Speaking of scrapbooking, what's the deal with all the materials being frilly and cutesy? Why can't there be more cool looking and manly scrapbooking materials out there, to foster a sense of inclusivity. I'm sure all those middle aged men will drop their fantasy football leagues and start going to scrapbooking parties if that happened.

If it's a problem at all, its not limited to games. Personally, I don't think it's an issue. Its a possible cop-out but then how many films get made with the same stereotypical bloke doing blokey things for the enjoyment of other blokes?

Whatevs.

I think it's a mistake to call most games playing through "men's lives", and listing the games in your findings would also be helpful. Nothing about most games I can think of feel like it makes more sense as a male. Some Assassin's Creed games I guess would, namely one. The first one, because of it's setting. But even in a game like that you could still tell a female story and have the character dressed as a male in public because of the setting. That'd be another story element unto itself, but I don't think many games tell a female or a male story.

Most shooters, action games, RPGs, whatever could work with a female lead instead of a male, because nothing you do in them are exclusively male acts. They're not men's lives, they're fanciful lives. I've yet to play a game that feels like I'm actually playing a "man's life" or a "woman's life". That males tend to be the face of many games I'd expect has more to do with marketing, or creators just perpetuating the "default", maybe without even noticing.

"Let's make a shooter!"

"What kind?"

"How about you're a dude in space shooting alien bugs"

"INGENIOUS!!"

That doesn't make the lack of female leads acceptable but it doesn't make it all that nefarious either. Looking at something like Mass Effect, that's a game that has you going around saving the galaxy as a soldier. Nothing about saving galaxies is exclusive to a man's life, which is to say there's no reason a woman couldn't save the galaxy. Playing as a female Shepard feels as appropriate to that "life" as playing as a male Shepard.

There have been games that swapped the male lead for a female one (I don't mean in the context of that game's development, but in the context of the industry), and you can see how the story might still work if it was a male instead. Nothing about Lara's journey in the new Tomb Raider felt like it couldn't have been done by a man. Nilin from Remember Me is probably the best example of this that I've seen. Yeah, she's a woman. They don't spend any time harping on that before she starts kicking ass.

And that sort of portrayal is a good thing! Because the qualities of these heroes is not gender-exclusive. Bravery, determination, strong moral compass and all that. Showing that these qualities are not just male qualities is by definition the promotion of equality.

Could you please inform why this study is valid and reliable? What is the definition of a gamer according to this study?

@charlie_victor_bravo said:

Well, for one, it was produced by the ESA, which is the largest video game trade association in the world. The most recent report, which was put out earlier this year, was compiled using the following methodology:

The 2014 Essential Facts About the Computer and Video Game Industry was released by the entertainment Software association (eSa) in april 2014. the annual research was conducted by ipsos mediact for eSa. the study is the most in-depth and targeted survey of its kind, gathering data from more than 2,200 nationally representative households. heads of households, and the most frequent gamers within each household, were surveyed about their game play habits and attitudes.

This report actually puts the gender breakdown at 48% women, 52% men. Their definition of a gamer is the same as everyone else's — someone who plays games.

But when discussing narrative based games using a statistic that counts things like mobile and facebook games is inaccurate and shouldn't be used in the context of that discussion. Context matters.

@conmulligan:

What was the information gathering method? How were the households chosen? How were they surveyed/ Where is the questionnaire?

The definition of gamer is the key part that determines how valid this info is. If you played game once, are you a gamer? Once a month? Twice a week?

Hey, OP. I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your post. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I didn't recognize these issues in media either, because I wasn't looking for them. So much of what I was consuming represented me, so why would I? It took other people to point it out to me for me to pay any attention to it at all.

EDIT: ugh.... And now were trying to define what the term "gamer" means. It's hard to find a less interesting debate on game forums.

@charlie_victor_bravo said:

Why are you asking me to parse the report for you? Seriously, if you want to just completely disregard it, then by all means go ahead. Alternatively, if you have any evidence suggesting the survey's methodology is flawed or misleading, feel free to produce it.

@clonedzero said:

Ok, well in the absence of any actual evidence that the audience for narrative-based games is predominately male, let's just assume that it breaks down 50/50 along gender lines and leave it at that.

You know you are right .... being main does not make him/ her the best character in a game , movie etc. In my case I dont feel wrong about my videogames being heavily male oriented as I have many films comics etc. that are made for ladies by ladies or that the main character / most interesting character is female so Im not skewed towards one or the other in a general sense.... It would be great tho if more videogames indeed featured a female main character (not a choose gender type game)

@conmulligan: You used it to prove a point, I did not throw sketchy looking on to the table.

When organization that defines itself as "The Entertainment Software Association (ESA) is the U.S. association exclusively dedicated to serving the business and public affairs needs of companies that publish computer and video games for video game consoles, personal computers, and the Internet." gives data and provides no info how they came up with the statistics, you have to question if it is reliable.

Well thats a bad assumption to make. Historically, anecdotally and marketing all seems to show that larger narrative based games are played more by men, by a significant margin.

The same study you cited seems to support this idea too, since the numbers of female gamers is going up at a similiar rate of mobile gaming. It's not a hard conclusion to come to even if its just and educated guess.

I think its incredibly valid discussion. For instance, everyone WATCHES movies but not everyone is a movie buff. Not everyone is going to fret over casting details or who is directing a film or pay attention to all the indie film festivals in much the same way the average person might PLAY games but they don't care about gaming culture or discussing the finer details of game design or knowing who famous game developers and directors are. Being a "gamer" is a core distinction from just "enjoying" games.

I agree that Persona 3 Portable should count. That game was practically re-written from a female perspective for the lady protagonist. If you choose a female in Fire Emblem Awakening, a fair bit of the dialogue is also different, though I don't know if I want to count that one.

On my own shelf, in the front, I have Metroid Prime and Final Fantasy XIII. On my PSVita I've got Persona 3 Portable. I looked through my entire Steam list and I have, out of 182 games, one - Tomb Raider. And I have Mirror's Edge on Origin. Final Fantasy VI and XII don't exactly have a single protagonist, but the closest thing to a protagonist in each is female (Terra and Ashe). And then there's the rest of the Metroid games (2, Super, Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime 1, 2, 3, Hunters). I think that's all of the games I have where the protagonist is female, or playing as a female includes significantly different writing so that it isn't neutral. That's 15 games. I may have more somewhere that I'm not thinking of, but it's not a significant number.

Yeah, I have never thought about just how low this number is, but it's down there. Mirror's Edge 2 and Bayonetta 2 are the only announced female-fronted AAA games that I can think of.

@demoskinos: I had a few paragraphs typed up, but then I realized that I was discussing the very subject that I find pointless and I'd rather get back to watching UPF. So, I'll just say this and call it a day.

I only ever see "gamer" used in instances where a person is trying to determine what types and how many games a person plays. Which is exactly how it's being used in this thread. Essentially, trying to exclude an entire gender as possible video game consumers. I never see it used with regards to how much detail a person knows about a game(s) or the industry surrounding it.

I think its based on the old sterotype that most gamers are male.

For some games like shooters i think more male gamers play them so they want to go for that audience. makes sense in a marketing way.

Im all for more deverse characters in general. The silent protagist or random brooding guy are boring. Gamers want more of a character based experience i think. games like last of us prove this.

I never want to get rid of my dumb guy shoot everything games. dont get me wrong. i need that sometimes.

But hey sometimes I want commando. Sometimes I want the good wife.

That term excludes gender how? Its not about gender its about your love and admiration and dedication to videogames as not just casual entertainment but an active hobby.

@demoskinos:

I didn't mean that the term "gamer" is gender exclusive. But that the way it's being used in this thread is an attempt to discredit a report by asking "are these females really gamers?". What games are they playing, how long, how many? Nobody is asking the same question for the males. Apologies that I didn't make that more clear.

I mean, did my brother take this survey? Now that he's got a family to care for, he only plays Gears, Halo, and the mobile Dungeon Keeper that got everyone upset. He used to play as many, if not more games than I did. Did they survey my co-worker? He only plays Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Fifa, Madden, and Uncharted, though he never finished the third. What about my male cousins who only ever play Handheld Mario and FF games? Are they gamers?

What about my co-workers who, in a typical week have more hours in game on steam than they do hours at work, but couldn't tell you who Peter Moore, Tim Schafer, or Cliff Bleszinski are. Their most recent games being Mark of the Ninja, Lords of Shadow 1&2, Darksiders 1&2, TF2, Dota 2, and Dust:AET. Are they gamers?

To me, trying to determine who is and isn't a "gamer" is pointless.

But no one is trying to do that. Literally no one.

It's not a matter of defining who is and isn't a gamer, it's trying to define what the aforementioned study defines as a gamer to determine whether or not the 45:55 ratio is actually germane to this discussion.

I'd venture a guess that the majority of video games in existence at this point in time are mobile games. If not, then they will be in the near future. Candy Crush made $1.5 billion in 2013. From those numbers alone, we can deduce that should the ESA include mobile-only gamers in their poll, it would count for a significant percentage of gamers.

I have no problem with the way women are represented in the videogames I've played. I've also had no problem with the way men are represented in the videogames I've played. Both are portrayed completely fictional in most cases and often to a certain extreme. That is fine for some games. It's also fine when some games actually portray them well. What I absolutely hate though, is this quest for 'we must all be portrayed how we want to be portrayed and everything needs to be equal'. It's dumb. There doesn't have to be an equal amount of games with playable males as females. There is no problem when there isn't an equal amount of those. It's not equal in real life either, for that matter. And it's completely fine.

Thank you everyone for your input and thoughts, it's always valuable to get some feedback on your thoughts. I also found it interesting what my text brought out of you as it seems a lot of you are replying from specific but different perspectives. All points are interesting and appreciated, but I would have loved to see more people take a casual glance at their own collection and see what they come up with like @believer258 did.

@clonedzero: Granted, I am pretty tired of people using the "maturity" card. Hell, I don't necessarily think it's applicable as a measurement. It's just a lazy figure of speech to get a point across. I've seen and met plenty of women that are in some way violent, so I have no real issue imagining a woman being violent or taking the part of a violent character. And I also think that it's a bit lazy to go by the "it's always looked like this, it is to be expected". Just because men have always been warriors and women always been caretakers, why limit imagination to such stereotypes? What's the fun in that? Not saying you're arguing to keep it that way. Just saying I don't see why we need to keep it that way.

@viciousbearmauling: I agree that the indie scene is doing good in that regard, but at the same time the indie scene is not the face of the industry and we're only as good as our most visible example. Granted, one could argue mobile platforms are becoming the new face of introduction to games, but I honestly don't have enough knowledge about that to say either way with any certainty.

@demoskinos: Exactly, Fetch doesn't count because Fetch isn't the main character. Which is the entire reason I wrote this blog; the gender of the main character and the number of female main characters as opposed to a male ones I saw in my own collection and game's at large. I agree that there are plenty of great side characters though. But that's a different blog all to itself.

@insectecutor: What are "those kinds of games" and why would me being a man hinder me from buying them? And what type of games that appeal to women does my criteria remove?

@aceofspudz: You make a lot of assumptions about me and my wife that's completely baseless. But thank you for reading!

@theht: You bring up some really good points and I don't think people who makes games are picking main character genders for nefarious reasons at all (well, maybe some producer with a spread sheet of target audience numbers do). I certainly agree with you that a lot of game stories could be starring a character of either gender due to the stories themselves not making their gender much of an issue in the overall narrative of the game. In fact, I am sure there are plenty of games on the male side I counted that you could just do a swap for a female and it would work just as good. But no one is doing that, even if it's that easy. So one have to wonder why developers find female leads to be such a daring choice or maybe, as you say, it's more a default choice (like my "male action figure" point) more than an aversion to a female character.

@wesleywyndam: Thank you very much! Appreciate the compliment.

@corruptedevil: @believer258: The reason I didn't include the "choose to be female" games were because while there probably are titles like the ones you both bring up that alter the story or the lines in the story to some degree, I was mainly looking for female-only versus male-only games. I am sure there's merit to discussing those titles as well, it just wasn't what my focus was. And to be fair, that would still not really change the numerical outcome of what I found.

@zevvion: How is it dumb to aspire for better more nuanced portrayal of people? As for equal, I don't necessarily argue we need to go by some yard stick that hits 50/50, but I also think 13/87 is a poor percentage split any way you slice the cake.

Looking at my list of games, I have 3 games where the only playable character is female (Bayonetta, GrimGrimoire and Tomb Raider), 2 games where the majority of the game is spent playing as a woman (Muramasa and Odin Sphere), and 3 games where the choice to be a chick is meaningful (FE:A, P3P and Mount and Blade: Warband)

@pezen: Because equality in rules and rights is 100% correct in every way. Equality in forced percentages is beyond ridiculous and dumb. For instance, I live in the Netherlands where 'only 12% of CEO's of company's are female'. At the same time, only 9% of applicants for those jobs are female. Women often do not want the high function several studies showed. So... where is the problem exactly? You are going to force women in jobs they don't want just to get close to the 50-50 mark? That's crazy.

There is just a shit ton of criticism on 'how many' women are represented in whatever thing, without any acknowledgement of the situation. Men and women are different from each other. You can say it's not the case all you want, but it is. Women are better at certain jobs than men, women are more interested in certain jobs than men, and vice versa.

Trying to strife for a 50-50 mark is more offensive than anything else. Because at that point you are making distinctions specifically and only about gender.

@zevvion: So you're saying that just because women and men are different, and less women apply to certain jobs and as such there is a natural correlation between the numbers in that sector, we can't argue for more female protagonists in our entertainment because.. what? The characters are fictional. They're created. Only our imagination is our limiting factor. What does gender differences and Netherland CEOs have to do with anything?

Like I said, I am not arguing for mathematical equality of exactly 50/50, I just think it's ridiculous that it's not even close. It's not a call for policies, regulation or affirmative action. It's a casual observation and I find it interesting that people get so defensive about it so quickly. And I also fail to see how saying "man, that's a bit much of a difference" is so highly offensive. To who? Who is the one getting offended that "hey, why are there not more lead characters that are female?" is a question asked?

Perhaps fewer women apply for jobs in the gaming industry because it can appear difficult for women to "make it"?

I think he said somewhere in the post that he's not arguing for an even split, just something better than a small fraction of practically anyone's collection. He's not even talking about the people working in the industry, necessarily, just the characters of games that they're putting out.

If more men played games than women I think it'd be even more important that games contained better portrayals of women. And men, for that matter. I'm not sure that's relevant to anything that's being said in this thread, just a thought that occurred to me.

This.

@hugh_jazz: I think that is an excellent point though and I agree.

Is this really the issue you make it out to be? Sure it'd be nice to see more games that have a female perspective but really it's only a really well written story driven game that would benefit and how many of the 20 games you mentioned that have male characters as the protagonist because the setting of the game dictates that? Really any historical or wartime settings are going to obviously be dominated by male characters so removing those from the list how many are you left with?

@hone_mcbone: I actually bring this up in my blog post as I'm debating the idea that males perhaps have just become the stock action figures, the default choice. And you're right, taking away the guys shooting things doesn't leave that many. But by the same criteria, most of the female leads are action oriented as well, so it doesn't leave many there either of the few that was actually there. Overall I wouldn't mind games raising the bar overall for all involved and do more things than combat focused narratives, but that's a broader topic of discussion not fit for this specific one.

There are a lot more females in games than other minorities and that bothers me more than the lack of females in games. When was the last good Hispanic protagonist? The Ballad of Gay Tony?

Male characters in most mediums are fucking boring and stale. The tough guy routine is so fucking old, but so fucking prevalent. Really irksome.

I tend to get more excited about games with female leads because then there's the hope that there might be some emotional depth to the character.

maybe the game developers think that the ones who play games are more men than woman. And i think that too, don't you? Altough here i am am, i m a woman interested in video games.

And take a look at this, a game that speaks about gays. http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/24/5930655/kim-kardashian-game-progressive

@mems1224: Since when was women a minority? Looking at the issue globally, there are a lot of cultural backgrounds not as represented as protagonists as your average "American" character. Some have probably never been in a game at all. But again, that's a blog for a different topic.

@hollitz said:

Totally. The same is true for race and cultural background. Video game leading roles have gotten so homogenous that it's getting harder and harder to tell all the middle-aged white guy protagonists apart.

I think women in leading roles often fall into a similar trap, though. There's basically just one archetype — woman runs the gauntlet, finds her inner strength, becomes Strong Female Character™ — and very little deviation from the beaten path. I think part of the push for more diversity should include better diversity of personality types within underrepresented groups.

No, the example I gave was not related to videogames. I was commenting on how it works in real life; the small amount of women in certain aspects is not necessarily because they are not being let in to them easily. It can be because they just don't want in there. Just like men are underrepresented in many types of jobs. No relation to videogames I'm making there. It was off track.

I have no problem with more female protagonists in videogames, but I do think it's dumb to do it for the sole reason that we need a somewhat 50-50 split. To be honest, I don't really get why it is always regarding women specifically. Why is the representation of blacks, hispanics, asians and whatnot left out of this discussion completely every single time? Because one thing at a time? That alludes me to be honest. I always thought it was a push for equality, why not go for actual equality instead of just taking one group?

That's funny that you could only come up with three games from the last generation with those criteria, since I came up with four off the top of my dome. Five, now. Six.

Oh, you were only counting games from your shelf. ... so wait, you're upset with the types of games you bought? What can I say, buy Remember Me more? Buy more Alice, Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, Lollipop Chainsaw, Beyond. Heh, Amy. Heavenly Sword. This is just off the dome. Does Okami count? I guess she's technically silent, because she a dog, man. What about all those Atelier games? Do they not count because they're not the genre you like?

Before I get "48% of gamers are women!" yes, 48% of gamers are women, but that doesn't mean they are playing the games that constantly get used as examples of where women should be. I think everyone knows this, except for the people who don't care, because it's a cultural issue for them rather than a people-getting-what-they-want thing. Even then, just because someone is a woman does not mean that they necessarily demand that they want female protagonists anymore than I demand male protagonists. I think most of the women buying Devil May Cry buy it for the same reason guys do; they think Dante is cool. Those people probably also bought Bayonetta; because they think Bayonetta is cool.

ZERO FATAL FRAME GAMES HAVE HAD PLAYABLE MALE CHARACTERS. RIOT.

As I was pouring myself a glass of soda the image of Jordan Belfort ([The Wolf Of Wall Street] as played by Leonardo DiCaprio) doing coke out of the ass of a woman covered the screen. I didn't react to it, I mean, isn't that what financially successful men do on their off-hours? My wife though, let out an audible sigh. It wasn't a sigh of shock or annoyance, but a sigh utter disappointment. A surrender to the tired old story; men are really cool and women are there as evidence of that fact. As the movie progressed my mind quietly asked me; what is it about mens' perspective that's so interesting? When was the last time I saw a movie, played a game or read a book that wasn't centered around the world seen from the perspective of men?

Wait, you decided to watch a movie about a man and then got mad when the events on the screen were about a man? You realize you and your wife are not children who get your food and entertainment put in front of you and you'll like it Goddammit. Right? 'When was the last time you saw a movie' is not the culture's fault. What you choose to watch is up to you, and you cannot sit there and tell me that there are no films whatsoever available that express a 'female perspective'. You decided to watch The Wolf on Wall Street and then were upset that it was The Wolf on Wall Street.

Please tell me you didn't get mad because a male character did things that that character does, things the person the character's based on probably did, things people do all the time. That just reeks of derogation, how dare they tell a story about whatever or whomever they're telling the story about; good people tell stories where no one snorts drugs out of private parts. That's icky and subversive, that's for the bad people.

@zevvion said:

I think women get the majority of attention because they are the most egregiously underrepresented group. They make up half the population, but are nowhere close to having that kind of representation in games, and when they do show up it's often in a negative light. That shouldn't be an excuse not to diversify games more broadly, though.

This is true. I also think it assumes that guys dont want to have female characters in those types of games. more guys play shooters so they dont want female playable characters in it? its flawed logic. also the games you mentioned are all years old at this point (tomb raider excluded)

Yes, There are probably extremes on both sides who dont care about games and more about making a statement. arguments by people against a game they have never actual played does happen and I tend to ignore people who make opinions based on things with little context.

also 6 or ten games out of the hundreds that come out per year isnt A good record. dont pretend it is.

More improtantly amy wasnt a game. it was an atrocity. lets never mention it again.

What about creators freedom to choose to tell story the best way possible or make it as appealing as possible? There is greater demand for games that feature men as protagonist, that is why there are more of them. It is cultural thing - when culture changes enough, games will follow.

Make a Lion video game, a Lioness would be the interesting character to play. But yeah representing women is important, hopefully trends can change and more women or men who want to focus on female characters and do good work in that field. I'm all for it.