From #1reasonwhy to #1reasontobe, and 1,600 Comments In-Between

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Gordo789

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#1501  Edited By Gordo789

@DystopiaX said:

@Gordo789 said:

@CommanderZx2 said:

There's a major issue with the way this is being discussed. People are mixing sexism within the workplace and the appearance of female character's in video games to attempt to push their own agenda on these virtual characters.

Note the giant bomb page which includes an image of DOA 5 selling character outfits, what has this at all got to do with sexism in the workplace? This is just people using the twitter thing to push their own agenda on something they don't like.

The result of such non-sense is that it is pissing off a lot of people who would normally be in agreement with their cause. If they simply left out their own personal stance on virtual characters and kept the discussion to the actual real life instances then there wouldn't be so much backlash in the comments.

Man, thanks for bringing this up! These are not the same issues at all. I love me some DoA5. FUCKING LOVE IT. It's totally unrelated to these workplace issues though. There's no reason we can't have games like that and treat women with respect at work at the same time.

But what if one of these women complains about the outfits or boob physics or whatever? That's a valid question you might ask, and the answer is that they're free to complain, and their complaints should be taken as seriously as any other member of the team, regardless of gender, not met with blank stares or outright dismissal.

I have no idea what goes on at DOA project meetings but you can't just assume that they're outright dismissing those concerns- I bet that some team or whatever looks at all the complaints about ridiculous boobs or whatnot after every DOA release, but then figure out that the people actually buying DOA games like that shit or don't care enough to boycott the game, so it makes sense from a financial standpoint to have those characters in.

I don't think they're dismissing anything. In fact they've specifically said that they went for less outrageous boobs in a previous game (maybe one of the ninja gaidens, I can't quite remember) and that there was fan backlash. They're setting out to make a very specific game for a audience that wants exactly what they're making. And that's cool. Nobody wants the fucking thought police, certainly not me. I want my Shadows of the Damned and Bayonetta and DoA5 and all that crazy crap I love.

What I was getting at, is that there some of these tweets from women who had their concerns straight up dismissed as irrelevant for the game that they were working on. That's not right, regardless of the game. I'm not arguing that they should be allowed to make all kinds of changes willy-nilly to suit their agenda, after all it's a team project, but people should be free to voice their concerns at work without fear of derision, reprisals, or being made to feel like they don't belong or that their say doesn't count. Concerns need to be addressed, discussions need to be had.

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DystopiaX

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#1502  Edited By DystopiaX

@mrfluke said:

my stance is, if it works and people reach out then more power to those who benefit from it. if it doesnt then im sorry,

i just cant get over that it could be a lot worse. as again try being of indian decent in america during when 9/11 was all the business and having people treat you like dirt and label you a terrorist. and when you try to reach out for help no one helps. so forgive me if im a bit cynical on this topic. i do hope this movement works for those women though

but this is beside the point, ill let the war continue in the comments below

but and you guys seemed so bothered by americanninjas comment.

well its kinda your guys fault that he made a comment like that. you gotta realize that there is a group of your audience that you guys influence greatly to where they wanna act like you guys, so when you guys always say stuff like "o videogames", "oh cause its a videogame", "because videogames," in just the most condescending demeaning tone ever, its a no brainer to me that SOME people in the community will start copying that type of attitude.

at least thats my take on why that dude made a comment like that, he could honestly just be trolling the comments section, but hey

@jimjimman said:

#1; kudos to Patrick for bringing this movement to the attention of the GB community. And more importantly, kudos to the women for coming forward with their stories. Shame on those of you who say this is unimportant because video games are just a hobby. Bringing social injustice to light is always a good thing.

#2; to those of you on the opposite extreme of the sexist jackassery that has been displayed in the comment sections of these two articles, I posit my own personal life as an argument against the concept of "privilege". I am white. I am a man. But I also have muscular dystrophy. I've never been able to walk. I am incapable of feeding myself. I have severe respiratory issues. I have never been on a date before because I have never met a woman that wanted to go out with me. I am most certainly NOT privileged. By generalizing one side of an argument, you defeat your own.

See, my take on this, on the second article in particular, is that Patrick approached it the wrong way. I see no reason to highlight one troll comment and then talk about how some people are reacting shittily in the comments section and that we should all "do better", when it would have been far more beneficial for Patrick to have looked at the 1000 or whatever comments from his first article, picked up a few (among many) comments that actually had good points and provoked good discussion, and then talked about his view of those comments. Instead he just used his response article to post dozens of tweets, talk about how many comments he received on his first article, and to highlight a troll comment and talk as if it represents a significant portion of the community, while implying that that type of trollish flamebaity comment was unique to just that article alone. It's the internet, and if you looked at the comments section for any article or video the site has posted you'd be able to find many, many other comments just as idiotic.

Patrick could have used this response article as a way to highlight other views regarding women in the games industry as well as provoke more discussion about this one reason movement, and instead used it to talk about how some of the community are misogynistic trolls. It's a shame really, since there have been many good points raised by users on both articles that are being completely ignored.

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frain

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#1503  Edited By frain

I don't think many of the people arguing here are necessarily against equality. I don't doubt there are misogynists in the industry, nor do I doubt any of the stories coming from #1reasonwhy. But I think movements like these tend to make the wrong people feel bad about themselves. You focus on these issues when you ignore that the majority of the industry at this point is doing pretty well on that front, perhaps even better than other industries. Yes, there are assholes out there and they tend to be louder, but is sexism really more apparent here than in other places of work? Or is that just a common misconception? I think the twitter movement should be about sexism in the work place in general, you would be surprised, or maybe not. The worst part about this is you're potentially creating sexist mindsets, people will begin to think "Well she's a woman working in gaming so I have to treat her a little better" and even some women have this sexist preconception that all men in the industry must be sexist in some form. When referring to women in the industry it should be "She's the artist down the hall" or "She's the programmer sitting right there." Nothing more, nothing less. That is true equality.

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=13391

If you're talking about sexism on the internet, well, why stop there? I'm african-american, and I hear certain racial slurs over the internet all the time. That's the thing with the internet though, it's anonymous, so assholes can be assholes as much as they want. If there is any message that's worth starting a movement over it's the message of treating people over the internet with a certain amount of respect.

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AlexanderSheen

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#1504  Edited By AlexanderSheen

@GreggD said:

@Gordo789 said:

@studnoth1n said:

@SirGregoryEdmunson: what do you mean by opposition? i think you're making broad assumptions.

more like he's making some assumptions about broads.

couldn't help myself.

BA-ZING

Shutting my PC down right now. That was too intense for me :)

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GreggD

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#1505  Edited By GreggD

@AlexanderSheen said:

@GreggD said:

@Gordo789 said:

@studnoth1n said:

@SirGregoryEdmunson: what do you mean by opposition? i think you're making broad assumptions.

more like he's making some assumptions about broads.

couldn't help myself.

BA-ZING

Shutting my PC down right now. That was too intense for me :)

:P

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TinyGallon

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#1506  Edited By TinyGallon

Excellently stated, Patrick. Very well done article

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Insectecutor

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#1507  Edited By Insectecutor
I do not consider myself a feminist or particularly aligned with the feminist movement. I just know bullshit when I see it, and I'm tired of bullshit that involves the vapid, shallow arguments that crawl out of the comments section of every single website whenever this subject comes out. It feels like the same 50 people are just making dupe accounts across the Internet, and making sure to drown out any real conversation. Those people deserve a chance to be heard, and that includes the larger-than-you'd-think audience of women right here on Giant Bomb.

It's disgusting that you single out one user, especially one whose comment was ambivalent. You should be ashamed, but I'm sure that's already been said in the 1,500 comments preceding mine.

Just as you are tired of the bullshit I am tired of seeing this type of inflammatory nonsense. If there is going to be change it has to come from women making a definite stand for themselves and making real demands that incur genuine risks. There will be a price. It won't come from a caustic, regressive hashtag where people whine about their lives and I think the responses you saw to #1reasonwhy were entirely predictable. People don't respond well to tales of woe, but show them someone taking action and making progress and they will generally be supportive.

All you've managed to achieve with this story is a flame war and you've been in this business long enough to expect that result. I hope the hits are giving you solace.

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LongMasterWolf

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#1508  Edited By LongMasterWolf

@GreggD said:

@Scrawnto said:

@GreggD said:

Exactly, but I feel like some people would rather not hear our opinions in this discussion. Namely, the people throwing around the term privileged like it's a de facto thing.

I almost feel like exemption would be a more appropriate term than privilege, since it's more about the lack of a bad thing being done to you than it is an extra good thing happening.

That would probably be a better route to take, I agree.

Or rather, it would make more sense, not necessarily be better.

I agree I would refer you to this article on Kotaku talking about a similar subject, where they use "Difficulty Setting" instead of privilege. http://kotaku.com/5910857/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is

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@TinyGallon: Excellently stated, TinyGallon. Very well done comment

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circlenine

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#1510  Edited By circlenine

Just because the term "privilege" might hurt your feelings for some backwards ass reasons doesn't make an an inaccurate term. It's an actual sociological term, quit dodging the fact that you have it by arguing semantics.

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TheFantasticFillip

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Ok, I'll enter the fray.

As you probably guessed, based on the demographics of this site, I am a 21 year old white-male. Also, believe it or not, I can have an opinion on this whole subject.

Sexism is bad. Yes sir it certainly is. Women can't drive, that's bad. Women can't vote, that's bad. Women are treated as playthings in workplaces? That's bad too. It's all unacceptable.

This is fact, however, just because I believe that sexism is bad, doesn't mean I think this 'movement' has much merit. Yes, video games as an industry can be sexist. But so can the movie industry. And television industry. And nurisng. And teaching. Fact of the matter is that is that, in the United States at least, discrimination based on sex, race, religion, etc... is illegal in the workplace. A major reason that women are having troubles in the gaming industry is because they are underrepresented. This under-representation does not come from the 'patriarchy' or some invisible machine or conspiracy set up by men to keep them out of our walled vidya game garden. Girls, on average, are just not as interested in games/game design/working in games etc... but if a woman was to be interested in this, then she should absolutely pursue this career path and has the freedoms to do so. Same with men who want to be nurses, women who want to be computer programmers, or men who want to be pre-school teachers.

But what about these stories of women being confused for booth babes? Or being hit on? The game industry's sexism problem is less of a sexism problem and more of an asshole problem. That guy who contacted the woman to flirt with her by using the number on her business card? Yeah, he's an asshole and should be fired. But I doubt that any kind of discussion, any kind of rant on video game websites or through twitter will change assholes. Because you can't. They're assholes. The fact that that guy thought it acceptable to hit on a business colleague speaks to him as a person, not the state of the industry, because he would, and should, be fired if his identity were to become known.

As for the women being confused with secretaries etc...this again comes from women not being a large force in the game industry, a fact that this twitter hashtag, or any internet based 'discussion' will not fix. Sure, you could affirmative action the whole thing, and force companies to maintain a 25% quota of female employees, but that's really backwards now isn't it? To wrong a perceived injustice, you do not start giving one side a handicap, as it affirms their inferiority. The fact of the matter is that generally, women don't give a shit about video games or working in the industry. Women and men place different interests on hobbies in their life, and gaming has shifted far towards the male side for a long time. Hence the games with sexualized females; when most gamers are men, why not appeal to your target fucking demographic? Is it wrong? In a way, but if it gets teenage boys to buy games, then that's business. This is, of course, ignoring the over sexualized ideal male present in nearly every video game ever made. But if you want that discussion, check out Forbes excellent article on the subject.

This is not a sexism problem. There are no institutions in place to prevent women from becoming a bigger part of gaming, and they are. The more women that work in the industry, the less of these silly secretary mistakes will be made, and the tone of games will begin to skew further from what males want and more into a less 'sexist' and more neutral form. The answer is not to combat the direction of the industry to try and make it more feminine, because putting a flower on master chief wont solve the problem either. Passive aggressive rants like mine or Patricks wont fix anything; a comment section could go to a million posts and nothing would change. It in fact exacerbates the problem, and makes the industry seem more hostile for women. You want to make the environment better for women? Track down the pieces of shit who objectify women. Weed out the assholes, investigate this. I can't do it, I'm some guy on the internet. But people out there can, and nothing changes until you actually start looking into this. Before that happens? We just get these weekly rants that villainize males and make women out to be defenseless. This shitfest will die down in a couple days, and two weeks from now some douchebag at a video game tournament calls a girl a bitch, or Bobby Kotick or some CEO grabs a woman's ass, and this all begins again. Don't just write about articles on the internet about the 'patriarchy' or 'male privelege' every time someone in the industry acts like an asshole. Find that asshole, ask some questions, put some pressure on the individual. Make it known to everyone this is not right.

And as for the whole male/female representation difference? Over time it will likely fix itself. It might never reach parity, but videogames are still young. I'll guarantee that video games will become a more interesting career path for women in the coming generations. It is just the way of things to move towards the neutral, more stable state.

All this pandemonium has spun so out of control. This rant of mine in unwarranted, as is two fucking articles in one day, several tweets, and a blog post. Patrick, you will never read this, but if you do you need to know that I respect you as a journalist, and I respect the voice you have. But do something else, start talking to people and stop making these stupid articles every week calling out sexism or some random guy who made a rude comment.

See ya in two weeks folks.

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LongMasterWolf

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#1512  Edited By LongMasterWolf

@Zetetic_Elench: If privilege continues to lead to this ineffective dialogue where many people tune out and post comments like those featured in Patrick's article maybe it is better to explain the situation with new terminology.

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EnduranceFun

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#1513  Edited By EnduranceFun

@Zetetic_Elench: It's a term, doesn't mean we agree it's true or that yours is the correct definition.

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#1514  Edited By Rasmoss

@Insectecutor said:

I do not consider myself a feminist or particularly aligned with the feminist movement. I just know bullshit when I see it, and I'm tired of bullshit that involves the vapid, shallow arguments that crawl out of the comments section of every single website whenever this subject comes out. It feels like the same 50 people are just making dupe accounts across the Internet, and making sure to drown out any real conversation. Those people deserve a chance to be heard, and that includes the larger-than-you'd-think audience of women right here on Giant Bomb.

It's disgusting that you single out one user, especially one whose comment was ambivalent. You should be ashamed, but I'm sure that's already been said in the 1,500 comments preceding mine.

Just as you are tired of the bullshit I am tired of seeing this type of inflammatory nonsense. If there is going to be change it has to come from women making a definite stand for themselves and making real demands that incur genuine risks. There will be a price. It won't come from a caustic, regressive hashtag where people whine about their lives and I think the responses you saw to #1reasonwhy were entirely predictable. People don't respond well to tales of woe, but show them someone taking action and making progress and they will generally be supportive.

All you've managed to achieve with this story is a flame war and you've been in this business long enough to expect that result. I hope the hits are giving you solace.

Where are you righteously indignant people when Patrick is singled out for personal abuse every day in the comments and the forum?

You're tired of inflammatory nonsense? How is this inflammatory? Sexism is bad, here are some people speaking out against it. Who is it inflammatory against? There have been over 3000 comments now over two articles, and I still genuinely don't understand what the problem is. Who is this Twitter movement hurting? You can argue it's ineffective, I don't know, it seems plenty effective to me, but how can it raise the kind of ire that it has?

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#1515  Edited By JamesM

One thing that puzzles me about the fierce response feminism often receives, particularly in gaming circles, is that I'm not even sure what the naysayers believe is at stake. Do they think that if the overall outlook and make-up of the gaming industry was more gender-neutral, games would have less to offer them? Does that much enjoyment really hinge on excluding women? I highly doubt that it actually does, and even if it did, it wouldn't be hard to find a less inflammatory alternative. Besides, it's not like anything would be eradicated, anyway; it'd all just exist in a more rounded and balanced environment.

@RagingDaemon said:

If you're railing against women being legitimately discriminated against via hiring practices, pay discrepancies, promotion denials, etc, you have a legitimate issue.

If you're fighting for women to feel perfectly comfortable at all times, you don't have a legitimate issue. Real life is rough and messy. Conflicts happen. Social faux pas' are made. Feelings are hurt. Misunderstandings happen.

Just because unfortunate things are inevitable, it doesn't mean we have to submit to them entirely. Take, for example, car crashes. Car crashes are undesirable, but car crashes will happen. You could theoretically completely eradicate them by banning cars outright, but that's unrealistic and nobody wants that. However, sensible people take reasonable measures to avoid accidents, and further measures to mitigate the damage done if one does occur. Likewise, people will inevitably sometimes be hurt or made uncomfortable by things other people say or do, but reasonable people make an effort to avoid causing such discomfort or hurt to others. To stomp around with complete disregard for others' feelings strikes me as childish to the extreme. I don't imagine you're like that at all, but your argument seems to allow for that.

@RagingDaemon said:

Being mistaken for a secretary, being hit on, being told you don't look like you're a programmer or whatever, are bullshit victim hysterical complaints. The world is not obligated to be sensitive and perfectly attuned to your personal set of hangups, no matter who you are.

Why does everything have to be about obligation? Can't we just want to treat each other civilly, professionally, and with consideration? You dismiss those complaints as "personal hang-ups" as though these are highly specific idiosyncrasies that it would take some herculean effort to keep track of, but they're all easily common enough for us all to be aware of and attempt to avoid. It mainly comes down to not making assumptions based on how somebody looks.

@RagingDaemon said:

Are you going to advocate for litigating "niceness"?

This seems to be a common thread among people arguing against feminism (and related issues). It is, as far as I can tell, a straw man. At what point was anyone asking for anything to be codified in law? There are plenty of things one is legally entitled to do that would render one a complete prick. That doesn't mean that there isn't a discussion to be had about whether it's a good idea to do those things, and how those things affect others, and whether we want care at all about those consequences.

@RagingDaemon said:

Will you be happy once all language is fully neutral, the only allowed words denoting negative things are strictly regulated, and offenders fined and punished? How would you regulate interactions to prevent anyone from being offended ever?

I think people are more concerned with institutional exclusion than the potential for anyone to ever be offended. If any of these things were happening in isolation, it might be a different matter, but when it's all symptomatic of an ubiquitous atmosphere of exclusion and objectification, it seems like a pretty serious matter to me. At some point it's evidence of unhealthy attitudes towards women. It's not fair on women, and I don't think it's good for men, either.

@RagingDaemon said:

There is nothing wrong with selling to your audience.

Neither is there anything wrong with broadening it.

@RagingDaemon said:

Please start arguing that heterosexual Romance novels have unrealistic depictions of men. Please rally hard for that to be fixed.

That's not at all a fair comparison. A better analogy would be comparing video gaming to book-writing in totality. Books are written on pretty much every subject under the sun, and from nearly as many perspectives, with pretty much everyone well-represented. Sure, there are still significant biases, but it's broad and deep enough that nobody need be left feeling excluded from reading, unless it's the act of reading itself putting them off. If books were like games are now, it'd be almost all war stories, crime novels, science fiction and fantasy adventure, and sports almanacs; all written by men and with male readers (or readers with traditionally male interests and attitudes) in mind. This might serve most of the people on this site well, but I sincerely hope that we can all agree that the world of books is in no way diminished by also including a whole wealth of other works for other interests, lifestyles and backgrounds.

If gaming were to transcend its narrow focus, it could become a much more transparent and integrated facet of society, much like books, films and music are now (to varying extents).

Unless, that is, you want gaming to consist entirely of the equivalent of trashy romance novels. I think that would be rather limiting.

@RagingDaemon said:

Also, while you're fighting the good fight for women to get into STEM fields by any and all means necessary... Know some other fields women are underrepresented in? Garbage collectors, loggers, truck drivers, construction workers. You know, the most dangerous, destructive, and shit paying jobs. There is absolutely no parity there. But something tells me you aren't going to give a shit.

I'm not sure what this proves. If women want those jobs, and have demonstrated an aptitude, I think they should get them. If your implication is that no-one really wants these jobs, there are other undesirable jobs in which women are overrepresented. Ideally, everyone would be happy in their work, but failing that, I'd rather there be little disparity at either end of the spectrum.

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EnduranceFun

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#1516  Edited By EnduranceFun

@TheFantasticFillip: Fantastic post, duder. Thanks for posting it, gave much to think over.

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SirGregoryEdmunson

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@Zetetic_Elench said:

Just because the term "privilege" might hurt your feelings for some backwards ass reasons doesn't make an an inaccurate term. It's an actual sociological term, quit dodging the fact that you have it by arguing semantics.

Nazism is a real term too. Thus, we must now accept all opinions of the Nazi party. Disagreeing is arguing semantics.

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circlenine

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#1518  Edited By circlenine

@LongMasterWolf: They aren't interested in dialogue, they're interested in MRA talking points and moving the discussion about women onto a discussion about men. It's completely disingenuous for them to say they care about women. As the past 20 pages demonstrates.

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gamer_152

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#1519  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator

So this is something I've been treated like a bit of an asshole for saying in the past, and it's something that would probably be easier to keep to myself, but I feel that it is important to say it; I think this community as a whole has a problem when it comes to discussing issues of equality and the treatment of people that are part of minorities or outside of our own social groups. This seems more prevalent than any other time when we're talking about women and video games. I understand that there are some people here trying to deliver reasonable opinions in a civil manner, but there's an enormous excess of people who aren't.

We have a situation where one of the biggest entertainment mediums in the world and one of the most valuable industries in the world is not only excluding women, but where women in them are facing outright mistreatment in a way that seems to go above and beyond what we see in many other occupations and pursuits. This is very serious and while it's something we have to think about critically and from both sides, it's something that shouldn't be waved away, and the "This is real and we need to do something about it" side of the argument seems to have undoubtedly stronger points than the other side of this. Yet, despite this, I'm still having to moderate people for making kitchen jokes, I'm still seeing people frame women speaking up about their mistreatment as an attack on men, I'm still seeing people being attacked and told they're wrong for speaking out, I'm still seeing people trolling these threads, I'm still seeing people who rather than facing up to the reality of the situation are creating strawmen and not listening to the other side of the argument, and none of this is okay.

Even when people are admitting that sexism is real and a problem, the attitude take often seems immature, detrimental to progress, and sometimes carries an outright disdain for the these kind of movements or the women involved. To those saying that that this hashtag isn't real action or that it's not doing anything, I think you're absolutely wrong. Firstly, for those who have had trouble with discrimination and marginalisation based on their sex, speaking out and seeing that they're not alone can be a hugely important and comforting step as individuals, and I've seen women saying as much. I think that alone justifies this trending topic, but it does more than just that. A problem cannot be tackled unless people are aware there is a problem to begin with, and this trending topic has certainly raised awareness.

In the comments of the last article Patrick did on this, I saw people claiming that the topic was pointless because people already knew all about the issue, only posts away from where others had said it was eye-opening and that they'd learned something from it. I certainly didn't know things were this bad and both within the topic and outside it I've seen people saying that they didn't know about the problem at all or the size of it, now we do, and that's the first step to making change. In fact, it's already leading to people reaching out and directly helping women in the industry. The people criticising #1reasonwhy don't seem to be acknowledging it, but the #1reasonmentors hashtag has been all about helping women connect with other people in the industry who can give them the help they need to make it as a female developer. If this isn't directly doing something about women struggling in the industry, then what exactly is?

There are also people telling Patrick that he's wrong for reporting on this, or that he's wrong for challenging opinions in the comments, and I don't believe either of these things are true. Firstly, just because this movement is happening over Twitter does not make it unimportant, I fail to see why reporting on people talking about their struggles within the games industry and their mistreatment as female developers becomes incorrect just because it's happening over a social networking site. Secondly, I don't understand this mentality where the respectful thing for Patrick to do is not to treat us like adults and respond to what we're saying, thinking we can have a rational and civil discussion about things, but instead to never actually acknowledge our opinions, and just pretend like the comments don't exist. He empathised with both sides of the argument, responded calmly, and gave a reasonable response, but there are people who seem to think it's the utmost injustice that we might actually have to defend our opinions or be criticised for dismissing people trying to stop sexism in the games industry.

On both sides of this argument though, there's still a huge problem with how people are putting across their arguments. The mod team has had much more work than we've had in a very long while stopping people who have been insulting, attacking, and generally being a jerk to other users, in these threads. It's easy to get frustrated over these issues, but if you're going to post in this way, it doesn't help anyone, it's going to get you moderated, it makes you look like a jerk, and it's very detrimental to rational discussion as it only makes people so angry it clouds their judgement and alienates them to your arguments. I think this is an important argument, I think it's something that needs to keep being brought up until people realise sexism is a serious issue, and you don't get to give it a wave of the hand and say we don't need to worry about it, or that the efforts to stop it aren't worth anything. But it's sad seeing people react like this every time, and I hate to think that good people like Patrick would be scared away from trying to intelligently tackle important points like this in an understanding way because so many people are unable to discuss this topic without acting like children.

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spicy_jasonator

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@Frain said:

I don't think many of the people arguing here are necessarily against equality. I don't doubt there are misogynists in the industry, nor do I doubt any of the stories coming from #1reasonwhy. But I think movements like these tend to make the wrong people feel bad about themselves. You focus on these issues when you ignore that the majority of the industry at this point is doing pretty well on that front, perhaps even better than other industries. Yes, there are assholes out there and they tend to be louder, but is sexism really more apparent here than in other places of work? Or is that just a common misconception? I think the twitter movement should be about sexism in the work place in general, you would be surprised, or maybe not. The worst part about this is you're potentially creating sexist mindsets, people will begin to think "Well she's a woman working in gaming so I have to treat her a little better" and even some women have this sexist preconception that all men in the industry must be sexist in some form. When referring to women in the industry it should be "She's the artist down the hall" or "She's the programmer sitting right there." Nothing more, nothing less. That is true equality.

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=13391

If you're talking about sexism on the internet, well, why stop there? I'm african-american, and I hear certain racial slurs over the internet all the time. That's the thing with the internet though, it's anonymous, so assholes can be assholes as much as they want. If there is any message that's worth starting a movement over it's the message of treating people over the internet with a certain amount of respect.

The point the article you posted makes, that some companies are getting it right, is important, but at the same time, it's just one person's experience. There are many more people posting under #1reasonwhy who do experience the negative effects of sexism. Some, it seems, on a regular basis. I think part of the reason why the issue persists is that those who do not treat women don't necessarily understand or accept that there is something wrong with what they are doing. People at press events ushering women away from Call of Duty towards Farmville probably aren't thinking, "haha, I showed her," rather they are operating under unfair and off-base assumptions. Someone commenting about there being, "a vagina in the room", might not see himself as an asshole. Part of what is so important about things like this hashtag is that people are standing up and saying, "hey, this isn't okay". The more people that see these tweets, and the more people that join in agreement, the harder it will be for those participating in these sexist acts to hide (or be stuck) in a bubble where what they're doing is okay.

I do agree, though, that a movement for respecting people over the internet would be definitely worthwhile. It's crazy here sometimes.

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Bambam15

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#1521  Edited By Bambam15

Sexism in video games goes both ways.

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shoddyrobot

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#1522  Edited By shoddyrobot

@ahopelesstroglodyte said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ZeForgotten said:

@shoddyrobot said:

@Seven2600: wow. I looked @Seven2600 said:

@Rasmoss said:

@Jeff said:

Wow, Kotaku must be thrilled to see their name mentioned so much here. I mean, if genuine articles about actual, serious issues make people think of them then they must be doing something right, huh? It's certainly a step up from the typical complaint they get about... video game cakes and Japanese panty shots or whatever it is.

It's sad to see some of you people get so furious over the basic idea of equality, as if that's something that should be argued about instead of just being implicitly understood. I mean, did you grow up with mothers that were constantly putting cigarettes out on your arms or something?

Or are you just currently growing up as an outsider and feel the need to lash out whenever anyone claims that there are groups of people out there that somehow have it even worse than you do? I was like you once. I was angry all the time. As I grew up I cooled down and gained a little perspective on the world. I hope, for your sakes, that you have a similar experience and get out of your weird, little bubble, at least for a little while. It gets oppressively ignorant in there.

Thank you, Jeff. Well spoken.

@Jeff Gerstmann Sorry I'm not sure you can have a valid opinion on knowing anything about or understanding equality....http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-far-cry-3/17-6839/ @~6:41 and @~15:45...what are the basic ideas of equality that you understand? Maybe you should wonder if its always been you who's in the weird, little bubble, with no perspective, still angry all the time...

uh... i went and looked up those time codes on the video you linked. I have no idea what you're talking about, so how about making it more clear than just vague accusations?!

Maybe we have to watch from 6:41 to 15:45 and see if we can spot it? Like a dumb game of "I can't find anything but if someone else can then I can take credit for it"

They joke that because the protagonists are "rich white kids" they deserve all the bad things they suffer including death. It was a joke but it looks weird compared to this article and Jeff and Patrick damning naysayers. Rule of thumb, jokes about rich people and white men are ok. Sexism jokes? No no no! We'll crucify your ass!

Yes, because there are major differences in privilege between different groups. My short and sweet way of stating this is: It is not fair or just to treat everyone equally when everyone is not equally privileged.

By and large, rich white people control the institutions responsible for phenomena like sexism and racism. They, much more so than anyone else, have the power to change the situation. They can acknowledge the problems, better represent women & minorities in their companies/pop culture/etc., refuse to work with other rich white people who don't follow their lead, and so forth. That they don't do nearly enough of this is a major reason these problems persist, so I have no problem joking about them or criticizing them.

This is also why "cracker" is nowhere near as serious as the n-word, btw. The latter represents real oppression since it has an entire established power structure to back it up, while the former does not and is mostly a coping mechanism for dealing with said power structure. Same thing with "die cis scum" and similar phrases.

no the difference is that jeff is talking about specific characters in a video game, who are assholes that just happen to be rich white kids!

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TheFrostedGamer

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Patrick's Logic:

It's okay to offend people with casual racism. No articles pertaining to this.

It's okay to play video games where the antagonist is always someone other than America, because that's healthy for the young american mind, as well as our relationships with those abroad.

It's okay to play violent video games which downplay how serious violence really is, like Call of Duty, Halo, Fighting Games, etc.

It's okay to swear a lot on podcasts and in his articles (because swearing doesn't offend anyone ever for any reason).

It's okay to work with people everyday who think nothing like you and don't uphold any of your morals, as long as you need a paycheck and the pay is good.

It's okay that heterosexuals are mistreated by homosexuals, and males are mistreated by females. Not gonna see any articles relating to that. Keep moving.

But as soon as a gay person gets offended while playing a violent videogame with other humans (who were BORN with a violent, competitive nature), then it's time for an article. Because that's edgey, noble, important, challenging the system, etc.

But as soon as a female, who may or may not have deserved it based on her own biases and half-stories, gets mistreated by someone, somewhere half-related to the development of videogames, its time for Patrick to become the noble, exalted third party and write an article "challenging the system".

Patrick, you sir are thee biggest hypocrite to ever grace the pages of a website. Jeff and Ryan should feel bad for allowing you to RUIN what once was.

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EnduranceFun

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#1524  Edited By EnduranceFun

@Zetetic_Elench: For the record, about one guy talked about MRA. This guy's twisting the truth.

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JasonR86

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#1525  Edited By JasonR86

@Gamer_152:

I get where you're coming from dude and in many ways I agree with you. I've already said before the problems I have with this specific campaign but I'll see it's benefits. I guess the issue I have now has to do with this article linking directly to this community and the conversations that have been had about sexism as a whole. This article has perpetuated, intentionally or not, a black and white response to the issue of sexism. The community has responded with a black or white response in kind. This 'us versus them' mentality helps no one. Jeff's comment earlier didn't help at all. Moderating and calling out people who are directly opposed to the campaign (rightfully so in a lot of cases) or even who have questioned the tactics behind the campaign while leaving the extremist on the other side of the issue who have been just as rabid doesn't help either. The basic conversation that the article posits and the community has had isn't helpful.

I am happy to hear about the #1reasonmentors thing you mentioned. That sounds really cool. That is the sort of campaign I would like to hear about. I mentioned this earlier but I asked Patrick to forgo another article of this caliber and look to cover sexism in a new way. Interview the people behind this campaign. Do a month long series on women in the game industry. Just something else because the conversation that has come out of this article just isn't helpful. I can't really explain why. It's too easy to say 'lol itz the internet' or 'white men being all sexist' or any of the other immediate responses we have seen to the negative responses to this article. But whatever it is almost doesn't matter that much. It should have been clear after the first article but sexism certainly does need to continue to be covered but it looks like it needs to be covered differently.

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circlenine

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#1526  Edited By circlenine

@EnduranceFun: How many posts have whined about ~*~MISANDRY~*~, the imagined specter of false rape accusations, how men have it worse cause of more dangerous jobs, or how any discrimination or harassment women face was brought onto it by themselves and they totally deserved it (i.e. MRA talking points) in this thread and how many posts have been made in agreement with them because maybe you know the truth is somewhere in the middle? If you say more than the couple of people who have straight up came out as MRAs, you're wrong.

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EnduranceFun

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#1527  Edited By EnduranceFun

@Zetetic_Elench: A few posts have talked about misandry, and I do not agree with you that it is pure evil.

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roboculus92

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#1528  Edited By roboculus92

damn you all for continuing to post. just stop and leave things be.

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Azteck

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#1529  Edited By Azteck

@Zetetic_Elench: Do you only read propaganda or something? Not once have I seen MRA talk about women deserving harassment. Never. And the fact that false rape accusations exists is not a lie. It's out there, and it ruins lives. Does that mean that every rape that gets reported is a lie? Nope, of course not. But keep in mind that women raping men is also a thing, but most laws and more importantly, society at large sees that as a lesser offense as it's "something guys like". It's not about oppressing women, it's about giving everyone an equal ground in all matters, but that cannot happen as long as people like you keep up this Me vs. You mentality.

Also, you should really give up on talking about misandry as if it's a thing that is non-existant. It's just as real as misogyny.

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Hailinel

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#1530  Edited By Hailinel

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

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JasonR86

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#1531  Edited By JasonR86

@Hailinel said:

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

I agree. The focus should be on how sexism relates to women in the gaming and other tech-based industries and twitter campaigns, along with other campaigns, to increase awareness along with other methods to address sexism relating to women (excluding sexism of men because that wasn't what Patrick's article was about). Both pros and cons on these topics should really be the focus. Turning it back on how it relates to men per se isn't really appropriate (though how to handle the issue of sexism relating to women in these industries concerns men so they have to be brought up to some extent).

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Carousel

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#1532  Edited By Carousel

@Azteck said:

@Zetetic_Elench: Do you only read propaganda or something? Not once have I seen MRA talk about women deserving harassment. Never. And the fact that false rape accusations exists is not a lie. It's out there, and it ruins lives. Does that mean that every rape that gets reported is a lie? Nope, of course not. But keep in mind that women raping men is also a thing, but most laws and more importantly, society at large sees that as a lesser offense as it's "something guys like". It's not about oppressing women, it's about giving everyone an equal ground in all matters, but that cannot happen as long as people like you keep up this Me vs. You mentality.

Also, you should really give up on talking about misandry as if it's a thing that is non-existant. It's just as real as misogyny.

Don't even bother with this deluded idiot.

No Caption Provided

Radfem hate speech.

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Azteck

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#1533  Edited By Azteck

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

I agree. The focus should be on how sexism relates to women in the gaming and other tech-based industries and twitter campaigns, along with other campaigns, to increase awareness along with other methods to address sexism relating to women (excluding sexism of men because that wasn't what Patrick's article was about). Both pros and cons on these topics should really be the focus. Turning it back on how it relates to men per se isn't really appropriate (though how to handle the issue of sexism relating to women in these industries concerns men so they have to be brought up to some extent).

It's more a question of tone, I think. Sure, the article was about women and the industry but Patrick's tone made him sound like he was pointing fingers and generalizing the entire gender, which is what becomes a problem. Now if this could be taken with a more neutral tone, and was written in ways that you yourself suggested before, I think most people would be having a different reaction and rightfully so. But people will react negatively to being made out to be something they're not. I personally feel that there is a time and place for this discussion, but in the midst of a bunch of biased twitter replies, it all loses it's meaning and comes off feeling incredibly cheap instead. I doubt most people in this community is against equality, but I also think that there is a legitimate reason for the reaction it caused.

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greennoodles

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#1534  Edited By greennoodles

How many african americans work for Giant Bomb? Worked for Whiskey Media? Have even been a guest? Work in the games industry? Get on it Patrick!

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Azteck

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#1535  Edited By Azteck

@CaptStickybeard: Guess they should go back to /r/SRS then where they belong.

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JasonR86

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#1536  Edited By JasonR86

@Azteck said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

I agree. The focus should be on how sexism relates to women in the gaming and other tech-based industries and twitter campaigns, along with other campaigns, to increase awareness along with other methods to address sexism relating to women (excluding sexism of men because that wasn't what Patrick's article was about). Both pros and cons on these topics should really be the focus. Turning it back on how it relates to men per se isn't really appropriate (though how to handle the issue of sexism relating to women in these industries concerns men so they have to be brought up to some extent).

It's more a question of tone, I think. Sure, the article was about women and the industry but Patrick's tone made him sound like he was pointing fingers and generalizing the entire gender, which is what becomes a problem. Now if this could be taken with a more neutral tone, and was written in ways that you yourself suggested before, I think most people would be having a different reaction and rightfully so. But people will react negatively to being made out to be something they're not. I personally feel that there is a time and place for this discussion, but in the midst of a bunch of biased twitter replies, it all loses it's meaning and comes off feeling incredibly cheap instead. I doubt most people in this community is against equality, but I also think that there is a legitimate reason for the reaction it caused.

Oh yeah. I've detailed my issues with the article and the campaign and fucking a lot of stuff already. But I think we need to focus on relevant issues and not just whatever comes to our minds when looking at this topic.

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AhmadMetallic

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#1537  Edited By AhmadMetallic

@TheFrostedGamer said:

Patrick's Logic:

It's okay to offend people with casual racism. No articles pertaining to this.

It's okay to play video games where the antagonist is always someone other than America, because that's healthy for the young american mind, as well as our relationships with those abroad.

It's okay to play violent video games which downplay how serious violence really is, like Call of Duty, Halo, Fighting Games, etc.

It's okay to swear a lot on podcasts and in his articles (because swearing doesn't offend anyone ever for any reason).

It's okay to work with people everyday who think nothing like you and don't uphold any of your morals, as long as you need a paycheck and the pay is good.

It's okay that heterosexuals are mistreated by homosexuals, and males are mistreated by females. Not gonna see any articles relating to that. Keep moving.

But as soon as a gay person gets offended while playing a violent videogame with other humans (who were BORN with a violent, competitive nature), then it's time for an article. Because that's edgey, noble, important, challenging the system, etc.

But as soon as a female, who may or may not have deserved it based on her own biases and half-stories, gets mistreated by someone, somewhere half-related to the development of videogames, its time for Patrick to become the noble, exalted third party and write an article "challenging the system".

Patrick, you sir are thee biggest hypocrite to ever grace the pages of a website. Jeff and Ryan should feel bad for allowing you to RUIN what once was.

Yeah, sounds about right.

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wrighteous86

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#1538  Edited By wrighteous86

I'm starting to really hate large portions of this community.

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w1n5t0n

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#1539  Edited By w1n5t0n

That is the logic of a moron. You not Patrick.

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Dalai

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#1540  Edited By Dalai

I want to see an article about this article about the first article on my desk tomorrow, Klepek!

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#1541  Edited By TowerSixteen

Hey Patrick, wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get this far into the comments, but if you do, just wanted to let you know. When me and my fiance read your last article, we talked for about an hour about it, and each of us thought about the issues presented for longer than that. We decided we pretty much agreed with the sentiment of the thing even if not always the individual posts, but that's not the issue here.

First, I wanted to let you know that, as dismissive and asshole-y many people are of the issue, the fact that we and I'm sure others talked and thought about the issue sincerely is validation enough for what you wrote, no matter what anyone might say.

Second, I wanted to ask that you beware becoming too disenfranchised with criticism of the movement. While a lot of it is terrible, criticism not of the root issue but the methods by which people seek to combat it is essential. A lot of harm is often done by people with good intentions who don't accept criticism, because they mistake it as criticism of their often very good ideals. Don't let a bunch of junk goad you into that trap.

In particular, my criticism would be that at this point, most people who are going to care have probably heard of the issue. Its time to talk more concretely- discussions of the underlying causes in the industry and suggestions for combating it, on both user and developer ends, by people who know what they're talking about. That would be an interesting article.

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eskimo

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#1542  Edited By eskimo

@Wrighteous86: Relax dude, if you talk about serious and controversial issues, you get a lot of different opinions. I'm sure you've got a few ideas that might upset people in the same way, it doesnt mean that you and they arent still the basically decent folk that make up this site.

I've known people that have some insane ideas about religion and the world, but they're still decent humans when you give them a chance.

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Gaff

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#1543  Edited By Gaff
@JasonR86

@Azteck said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

I agree. The focus should be on how sexism relates to women in the gaming and other tech-based industries and twitter campaigns, along with other campaigns, to increase awareness along with other methods to address sexism relating to women (excluding sexism of men because that wasn't what Patrick's article was about). Both pros and cons on these topics should really be the focus. Turning it back on how it relates to men per se isn't really appropriate (though how to handle the issue of sexism relating to women in these industries concerns men so they have to be brought up to some extent).

It's more a question of tone, I think. Sure, the article was about women and the industry but Patrick's tone made him sound like he was pointing fingers and generalizing the entire gender, which is what becomes a problem. Now if this could be taken with a more neutral tone, and was written in ways that you yourself suggested before, I think most people would be having a different reaction and rightfully so. But people will react negatively to being made out to be something they're not. I personally feel that there is a time and place for this discussion, but in the midst of a bunch of biased twitter replies, it all loses it's meaning and comes off feeling incredibly cheap instead. I doubt most people in this community is against equality, but I also think that there is a legitimate reason for the reaction it caused.

Oh yeah. I've detailed my issues with the article and the campaign and fucking a lot of stuff already. But I think we need to focus on relevant issues and not just whatever comes to our minds when looking at this topic.

@TheFrostedGamer

Patrick's Logic:

It's okay to offend people with casual racism. No articles pertaining to this.

It's okay to play video games where the antagonist is always someone other than America, because that's healthy for the young american mind, as well as our relationships with those abroad.

It's okay to play violent video games which downplay how serious violence really is, like Call of Duty, Halo, Fighting Games, etc.

It's okay to swear a lot on podcasts and in his articles (because swearing doesn't offend anyone ever for any reason).

It's okay to work with people everyday who think nothing like you and don't uphold any of your morals, as long as you need a paycheck and the pay is good.

It's okay that heterosexuals are mistreated by homosexuals, and males are mistreated by females. Not gonna see any articles relating to that. Keep moving.

But as soon as a gay person gets offended while playing a violent videogame with other humans (who were BORN with a violent, competitive nature), then it's time for an article. Because that's edgey, noble, important, challenging the system, etc.

But as soon as a female, who may or may not have deserved it based on her own biases and half-stories, gets mistreated by someone, somewhere half-related to the development of videogames, its time for Patrick to become the noble, exalted third party and write an article "challenging the system".

Patrick, you sir are thee biggest hypocrite to ever grace the pages of a website. Jeff and Ryan should feel bad for allowing you to RUIN what once was.

Yeah, it sucks when you're being judged when people of your same race / gender / religion does something terrible, isn't it?

Gee.
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JasonR86

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#1544  Edited By JasonR86

@Gaff said:

@JasonR86

@Azteck said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

Though mentions of misandry in this thread are overblown by a number of people, it does, in fact, exist. It just typicially isn't displayed in ways commonly associated with misogynist behavior. It is also not the focus of this discussion, and trying to divert attention toward it as a defense is an absurdity.

I agree. The focus should be on how sexism relates to women in the gaming and other tech-based industries and twitter campaigns, along with other campaigns, to increase awareness along with other methods to address sexism relating to women (excluding sexism of men because that wasn't what Patrick's article was about). Both pros and cons on these topics should really be the focus. Turning it back on how it relates to men per se isn't really appropriate (though how to handle the issue of sexism relating to women in these industries concerns men so they have to be brought up to some extent).

It's more a question of tone, I think. Sure, the article was about women and the industry but Patrick's tone made him sound like he was pointing fingers and generalizing the entire gender, which is what becomes a problem. Now if this could be taken with a more neutral tone, and was written in ways that you yourself suggested before, I think most people would be having a different reaction and rightfully so. But people will react negatively to being made out to be something they're not. I personally feel that there is a time and place for this discussion, but in the midst of a bunch of biased twitter replies, it all loses it's meaning and comes off feeling incredibly cheap instead. I doubt most people in this community is against equality, but I also think that there is a legitimate reason for the reaction it caused.

Oh yeah. I've detailed my issues with the article and the campaign and fucking a lot of stuff already. But I think we need to focus on relevant issues and not just whatever comes to our minds when looking at this topic.

@TheFrostedGamer

Patrick's Logic:

It's okay to offend people with casual racism. No articles pertaining to this.

It's okay to play video games where the antagonist is always someone other than America, because that's healthy for the young american mind, as well as our relationships with those abroad.

It's okay to play violent video games which downplay how serious violence really is, like Call of Duty, Halo, Fighting Games, etc.

It's okay to swear a lot on podcasts and in his articles (because swearing doesn't offend anyone ever for any reason).

It's okay to work with people everyday who think nothing like you and don't uphold any of your morals, as long as you need a paycheck and the pay is good.

It's okay that heterosexuals are mistreated by homosexuals, and males are mistreated by females. Not gonna see any articles relating to that. Keep moving.

But as soon as a gay person gets offended while playing a violent videogame with other humans (who were BORN with a violent, competitive nature), then it's time for an article. Because that's edgey, noble, important, challenging the system, etc.

But as soon as a female, who may or may not have deserved it based on her own biases and half-stories, gets mistreated by someone, somewhere half-related to the development of videogames, its time for Patrick to become the noble, exalted third party and write an article "challenging the system".

Patrick, you sir are thee biggest hypocrite to ever grace the pages of a website. Jeff and Ryan should feel bad for allowing you to RUIN what once was.

Yeah, it sucks when you're being judged when people of your same race / gender / religion does something terrible, isn't it? Gee.

I'm not seeing how the bottom post relates to the top post.

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Gaff

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#1545  Edited By Gaff
@JasonR86 Hm, I must have misinterpreted the common sentiment of being attributed, accused if you will, certain qualities, actions or beliefs of certain members of your social, racial or gender group have displayed.

My bad.
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EnduranceFun

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#1546  Edited By EnduranceFun

@CaptStickybeard said:

@Azteck said: Don't even bother with this deluded idiot.

No Caption Provided

Radfem hate speech.

So accoridng to that guy, killing half the human population is fine, but believing misandry exists in any form makes you Satan. Duly noted.

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JasonR86

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#1547  Edited By JasonR86

@Gaff said:

@JasonR86 Hm, I must have misinterpreted the common sentiment of being attributed, accused if you will, certain qualities, actions or beliefs of certain members of your social, racial or gender group have displayed. My bad.

...are you being sarcastic? Look, I said the focus should be off of men and on women as the original article stated. Hailinel said that people should stop bringing up misandry as it isn't relevant, I agreed, another person said that the tone of the article was poor which may have lead to part of the bad response, to which I said that there are a lot of things that could be said about the handling of sexism on Giantbomb and twitter but that it would help this thread if we kept our attention to specific things that were brought up in the original article.

Then you linked those exchanges to a guy who was running his mouth about all sorts of inequalities that were completely unrelated to the original article. Effectively doing the exact opposite of what I and the rest of us in the exchange above said to do.

So what are you getting at dude?

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circlenine

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#1548  Edited By circlenine

#killallmen is about patriarchy, you idiots. You know, the kind that lets MRAs fucking thrive. If you feeling threatened by that hashtag, you're part of the fucking problem. Which has been pretty thoroughly established at this point though so it's kind of a null point to test the waters with it.

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AV_Gamer

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#1549  Edited By AV_Gamer

Patrick has turned Giantbomb into website where actual news and discussions of the industry need to happen. Of course, Giantbomb is not about that. It's about being non serious and sarcastic all the time, like Jeff and Ryan. This is why a lot of the Giantbomb sheep are mad. Don't listen to them Patrick, do your job, which is to be a video game journalist. That's what Giantbomb hired you for. Clearly, many of the members didn't get the memo.

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boomsnapclap113

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You should see the oilfield. It is BRUTAL up here for sexism. Something really does need to happen, not just in the games industry, not even just with sexism. With human behaviour in general. WHY is it we can't all just be nice to one another. Stop labelling ourselves as black, white, male, female, jewish, a bears fan, What the Fuck Ever! And just realize we are all just Human Fucking Beings. Act Like It!

#TeamPeople