Help me understand: is the gaming community offended by difficult subjects such as violence now?

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OpusOfTheMagnum

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I’ve been kind of confused about why the reactions to certain things have been so negative within he gaming community lately. A few things I’ll say first: I don’t have a lot of exposure to the community as a whole, getting it mostly through sources like GB, I’m not a big Political correctness guy so this stuff often passes over my head.

It seems like maybe there might be a negative reaction to things like domestic abuse (personal experience), gratuitous violence (second hand experience) etc being seen as bad just because it is represented. The two recent examples I can bring up are Sony’s showing of Detroit and The Last of Us 2. However the impression I got on how the reaction was to these two things has been kind of confusing. Is it that people just don’t trust David’s Cage and don’t see the violence of TLoU 2’s trailer fitting he franchise, or are people upset that violence is represented and that domestic violence is represented?

The Detroit trailer made me a little emotional because of personal experiences, but I never once thought “this shouldn’t be a subject for media.” The last of us trailer didn’t elicit much of a response but certainly made me wince because debilitating injuries are freaky. But still even as someone who has experience with this level of violence it never felt innapropriate for media.

So, can you help me understand where the community at least here stands on this? Is it that we don’t want domestic violence and brutal violence represented? Or do we just not trust David Cage and have a different idea of what makes TLoU so special?

Third option is vinny just bad at picking sides.

Guess I can’t make a poll on mobile so I’ll just have to check the comments. Thanks!

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Captain_Insano

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From what I've heard, it's more that GB don't trust David Cage with his ability to handle subject matter like domestic violence. I haven't played it yet, but it seems like the GB crew feel that Wolfenstein II handled the subject of domestic violence fairly well with its depiction.

For TLOU2, the general reaction seems to be that this CGI violence was an odd sort of thing to show out of context for a Last of Us trailer. As they said on the Beastcast, we know TLOU is in a grim universe, and the trailer didn't really give us much in the way of who these characters are, or who these groups are, other than that, hey, they are kind of violent and let's watch this woman get mostly hanged and this other woman get her arms broken. It was just a strange thing to make the closing trailer of the PGW.

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Wemibelle

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#3  Edited By Wemibelle

In the case of Detroit, people ABSOLUTELY don't trust David Cage with anything remotely difficult to tackle respectfully, such as parental abuse. I can agree with this to some degree, as parts of past DC games have been entirely tone-deaf and miss the point entirely, but I still can't write off the guy entirely myself, as I have really enjoyed other parts of his games. As for the TLOU2 thing, I think it's less the violence itself (although it was pretty intense) and more the lack of justification for the violence. We were given no context for any of the characters or the reasoning behind their actions, which makes it harder to contextualize the behavior and to only see it as unnecessarily violent. It just felt like a bad trailer, with practically no new information to parse about the game as a whole other than "Yo, it's going to be FUCKED UP."

You could obviously point to the current political climate as the reason for some of the backlash, but I think there's some valid criticisms to be made about both Detroit and TLOU2.

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slyspider

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I think it was more misuse of violence (IE using it as like 'Wow look how SICK THIS SHIT IS') than not wanting violence in video games

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OpusOfTheMagnum

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@yumewaru: are you willing to expand on that? I’d really like to know what your perspective is. It sounds like you aren’t offended so much as just uncomfortable. If you aren’t willing to goin deeper that’s finez

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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I'm offended by how badly it's presented. David Cage is doing nothing but using difficult subjects to tug at heart strings and make melodramatic shit. He can't write an interesting game for shit, he's a hack. He's like the most boring man in existence.

As for the TLOU2 trailer, I wasn't offended by the torture porn, I was just tired of another fucking pre rendered cut scene being shown with zero context. It didn't help that all that was shown was pure torture porn, which there are plenty of movies I can watch that do any of that WAY better than what Naughty Dog could ever try and pull off.

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Yumewaru

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Those trailers were heavy handed with human suffering in a way that was very off-putting.

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OpusOfTheMagnum

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#9  Edited By OpusOfTheMagnum

@slyspider: @slyspider: can you talk more about this? Do you feel this was simply used as shock value material?

As someone who has experienced domestic violence, I actually found some elements quite good at representing that particular evil but I was maybe a bit biased my emotions at the time. I’m curious how you feel differently, or so it seems. Thanks for the response!

@wemibelle: hmm, I think I see something of where you are coming from but I have to wonder: why does violence need context? I can think of recent examples where it seems to completely lack context. In fact many horrible things often do. What context could they provide and why does it need to be given up front? I’m not saying you are wrong by any stretch just want to investigate where people are on the matter. Thanks!

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Wemibelle

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@opusofthemagnum: I guess what I mean is it felt like, for this trailer, its only intent was for shock value. Instead of a trailer that gives us new information about the world, we're simply thrown into a scene that does little to tell us anything new or explain what's going on. We're shown new characters but they don't say anything we really understand, not having the full context of this game's setting, and they are only used as tools to demonstrate the violence of the world they inhabit. Violence doesn't necessarily need context, but I think a trailer for a much-anticipated follow-up to a beloved game could sure use some, especially as the first (?) extended look at the game. Without that context, this trailer just has very little impact to me, outside of the intensity of the violence.

To be clear, my feelings on the trailer were pretty unaffected. I noticed how violent it was at the time, sure, but I didn't necessarily expect a huge "backlash" to it when I first saw it. I do however understand where those thoughts come from, and my posts in this thread are just some thoughts on why I think it made some waves.

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viking_funeral

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Huh. That's the first time I saw the Detroit trailer. That's interesting.

I will say that I have an extensive personal history of child abuse, and while that might give my voice some weight, it doesn't necessarily mean that my opinion is the opinion of 'the group' or even the right one. It's just a perspective. I would also like to note that people have some pretty weird fucking preconceptions about people who have a history of being abused, as if we're so damaged from our experiences that we can't perceive things with 'proper' perspective and/or that all of our personalities and opinions derive from these singular experiences in our lives. That is to say, people will sometimes treat us as the 'poor unfortunate who has no agency of their own.' Luckily that is not everyone, but there is a reason I rarely bring up my own dark history to people I don't know very well in real life, and who can respect that I am more than the sum of my experiences.

So, yeah... that said.

I don't necessarily love David Cage's work. I see what he's going for, but I have rarely enjoyed it myself. Too often it goes too off the rails. However, I also think that this is an interesting new subject for video games, and it should absolutely be explored, even if the end result isn't exactly nuanced. For video games to move forward, tackling new topics and the occasional mistake must be allowed. While I will likely never personally play this game, due to how uncomfortable it would probably make me feel, I don't see why it shouldn't exist. This isn't a mass appeal game, it isn't trying to glamorize violence, and it may even help expand the perspectives of some of the people who play it. Again, I don't think this game is going to have a lot nuance and will probably ignore societal and situational stimuli that lead to such situations (i.e. the trap of Fundamental Attributional Error), but I'd rather have the attempt than not. This is a way video games can move forward, even if it isn't the step that we want to stop at.

~~~

As for the The Last of Us Part II trailer, which I don't have any particular personal experience with — I mean, if anyone does have experience with post-apocalyptic survival and guerilla warfare, you should do a Reddit AMA, at the very least.

The violence doesn't seem that out of place for the game itself. It's no more violent than Game of Thrones or something like Misery, which it briefly reminded me of. However, that was pretty intense for an advertisement. I get that this is a special trailer, it is not mean for TV audiences, and that you have to accept a violence warning to view it, but I can see why some people could be a little surprised despite all the warnings. That said, I found stuff like the Polygon article a little ridiculous. I briefly read the article, which I regret doing, as I did exactly what the article was designed to do: get clicks. I have a weird relationship with Polygon where half the time I really enjoy their stuff, then the other half the time they are making controversy for the sake of views (or so it feels like to me). I especially disliked how most of the article was focused on gender and then became a wider critique of gender in advertising in general. It felt strongly disingenuous, but then again most click bait does. That's kind of the point.

~~~

To the OP, I find that such views and opinions are the minority in gaming. In my real life (read: off the internet), I find that a vast majority of the people I know who play games really don't care. I'm also willing to bet that a majority of them won't see the Detroit trailer and only so many will have seen the The Last of Us Part II trailer. This is purely anecdotal, but I also find that violence against women isn't that uncommon in media. There is a fascination with violence and criminality, which can be seen in the wealth of shows about police procedure, serial killers, the minds of serial killers, and so on. Child abuse and domestic violence isn't exactly an uncommon topic, either. I think we all know about "No wire hangers!"

No, I think this is more of a case of people trying to get views from controversy due to new media models, and possibly to an extent an attempt to keep video games in ghetto like animation, where attempts to tackle more difficult subjects are met with resistance and an insistence that 'video games can't handle such topics!,' by which people really mean children.

For video games to grow as a medium, we have to allow it to grow, and it seems many people are okay with that, if not vocal. If the internet was a good measure of how the real world felt about something, then Snakes on a Plane would be the highest grossing movie of all time instead of the flop it was.

~~~

Oh, and finally, if anyone is interested in a fascinating game about domestic violence I would recommend Papo & Yo. It wasn't my favorite gameplay experience, but it did approach the subject with some nuance, albeit in a very subtle way. It's also pretty short.

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sasnake

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Because the internet gets easily offended by everything these days because they think they should be offended by it.

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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@sasnake: Why do they think they should be offended by it?

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cikame

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Video game graphics are getting ever closer to becoming photo real, performances are motion captured, faces are scanned with precise detail, using The Last of Us 2 as an example the woman is hanging from a noose with a knife blade to her belly, you can see her sweat, her breathing, the knife pushing into the skin, the other lady was held down and her elbow repeatedly smashed with a hammer, ever more blood seeping through her shirt sleeve and the camera doesn't hide anything, these are things we haven't seen in this much detail before, but the thing that caused so much controversy is that it happened in a trailer.
Everybody who watched the presentation saw it, including a lot of people who didn't want to, usually you'd see forum topics pop up post release about how people were disturbed by the violence but it's limited to people who actually played the game, i don't remember if Quake 4's "stroggification" scene was shown in all its glory before the game's release, but i'm assuming it wasn't shown publicly on stage.

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damodar

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I perhaps interpreted incorrectly, but from what I saw of the discussion, the Detroit thing is definitely largely about not trusting David Cage to be capable of handling the subject matter, but also finding the presentation in the trailer itself to be a bit on the nose. It shows all the different paths and then zooms out to show an actual flowchart, and I think a lot of people saw that as a weird gamification of domestic violence, seemingly trivialising the scenario as some choose-your-own-adventure situation with failstates etc that maybe also makes some inadvertent statements about the degree of control victims have in those violent relationships, the role they play etc. Maybe David even has experience with abuse like that and actually has something meaningful to impart, but I can't really blame anybody who feels like he's maybe tastelessly exploiting something because it's easy drama. While I appreciate his vision for the potential that interactive entertainment can hold, I don't think his work has really shown that he's personally up to achieving that ideal.

Part of the TLOU discussion that I saw was just reflecting on what it says about video games and the industry that it's so normal for a big corporation to end their big public media presentation with a display of violence basically meant to be as brutal and harrowing as possible, like that's their sizzle factor. The big finale to get people excited about the future of Playstation is a bunch of realistic hammer violence. Also maybe thinking about the weirdness of the extremes of these sorts of shows, with claw hammer to the temple on the same stage as the cute little mouse adventure without much buffer between and often just a blanket content rating at the start to cover everything.

I don't think a lot of the people talking about that stuff necessarily want video games to stay away from topics like domestic violence or just extreme depictions of graphic violence, I think it's just that the speed at with which the industry is growing (which is partly facilitated by tackling tough topics like domestic abuse) also benefits from a lot of reflection and introspection to potentially ease that growth. I think the end goal is more about having more considered, nuanced approaches to those subjects, rather than ruling them out as subject material. They don't want to not see that stuff done, they just hope that it could be done better.

That's basically what I understood of the discourse that I saw, at least.

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BisonHero

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@yumewaru said:

Those trailers were heavy handed with human suffering in a way that was very off-putting.

I'm trying to figure out whether the Last of Us Part II trailer was really that different from the first trailer that really showed some of the gnarly torture stuff in MGSV The Phantom Pain. The first 3 minutes or so are the gnarly part:

Loading Video...

I think expectations play into it a lot. People expected MGSV to just being fucking nuts based on past experience, and also the way that so much of MGSV's announcement was obfuscated and weird new territory, and prior MGSV trailers had already shown some darker stuff, where things are obviously going not well for Big Boss. Plus, you see Ocelot torturing some people, but you're like A) it's Ocelot, I expect him to torture some fools, and B) well surely the torture is for some kind of military interrogation to gain information or something. People expected TLOU II to have trailers that reflect what their takeaway feelings were after they finished the first game (which the first trailer was pretty close to), but I guess the devs feel they can't just have kinda uplifting Ellie-based trailers and they need a trailer to remind people that "hey guys, the post apocalypse is pretty messed up and the bad guys are some real pieces of shit."

That being said, compared to the MGSV trailer, the violence in TLOU trailer is less "torture for implied military interrogation" and more "wanton violence and maiming against a woman and young girl with no clear objective other than suffering", so I can understand why people were less comfortable with TLOU.

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Panfoot

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@damodar said:

Part of the TLOU discussion that I saw was just reflecting on what it says about video games and the industry that it's so normal for a big corporation to end their big public media presentation with a display of violence basically meant to be as brutal and harrowing as possible, like that's their sizzle factor.

More or less this. Outside of the context within the games story itself, that scene is just a lot of extreme violence to several characters we have no connection to. It doesn't really tell us anything new about the game or the story, the first game wasn't exactly all sunshine and rainbows so it's not like this is some "now we area really serious" moment for the games tone. It's just a bizarre choice for the big last trailer(and I believe 2nd trailer for the game overall?) at a press conference of material made for varying age ranges. It's like if for GTA5 they decided to just show off the torture mission with Trevor or for the 2013 Tomb Raider game just showed off some of the more brutal player deaths.

As for the Detroit stuff, David Cage is a hack. He's has some seriously glaring problems in his previous work(More or less forcing a romance with a very unlikable character in Beyond: Two Souls, how Madisen's character in Heavy Rain almost existed entirely to help Ethan even going so far as to optionally have sex with him while he is SEARCHING FOR HIS MISSING CHILD AND RAPIDLY RUNNING OUT OF TIME, Carla in Indigo Prophecy running into the same "main characters love interest and not much else" problem towards the end of the game along with stuff like the racist caricature library scene and well...the entire mess of a plot that game turns into. Nobody believes he has the skills necessary to actually pull of serious topics, this isn't just related to the last trailer either, every trailer shown for the game has been met with resistance.

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ThatAintFalco

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#19  Edited By ThatAintFalco

First few posts pretty much nailed it. David cage can’t be trusted with subjects like domestic violence. Look at how the community is handling Wolfenstein, right now. They agree that it is done really well. I hear people talk about its portion dealing with child abuse and how they were worried the gme wouldn’t “make good,” on it after their first encounter with it. When topics like that are presented, it is important for them to have a purpose and reason beyond just emotional reaction and/or shock, or else it comes off as exploitative in a way. From what I hear, Wolfenstein “males good,” on its tough subjects.

And like others said, TLoU trailer was just torture porn for what seemed like no reason. Violence is not a big deal even without context, but when it gors so far without context, it becomes the focal point. Once it gets to that point, it becomes legit to ask “okay, why is ot the focal point?” We start looking for reasons. And if there is none, then.. well.. that’s when we begin to accuse it of being torture porn for the sake of shock value. Sometimes there can be a purpose for what seems like torture porn but not in this case. You take out most of the gratuity (tone it down) and it doesn’t change much. So again, we ask “why?”

You wonder if and why the community can’t handle- or rather seems opposed to tough subjects, but that’s a false claim. You’re taking two recent examples and generalizing them. Look at other recent examples where they were accepted and commended, such as Wolfenstein and Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice. It’s not that the community is opposed to it; it’s that the community is opposed to it when improperly handled.

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OurSin_360

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#20  Edited By OurSin_360

Personally speaking i thought the latest Detroit trailer gave me hope for the game as i wasn't very impressed with previous trailers. I like the game is tackling a serious subject that isn't tackled much in the media these days. Hopefully they pull it off, i thought they did pretty good with stuff like that in beyond.

The last of us just seemed like a typical video game trailer for a story based game these days. Not a fan of the franchise but it felt very walking dead from the start, i thought it was the other zombie game until the monsters showed up at the end. Dunno where the issue with that is, i pegged zombie game right away lol.

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pweidman

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@yumewaru said:

Those trailers were heavy handed with human suffering in a way that was very off-putting.

This for sure but also shown in a very sensational way with NO CONTEXT. Very odd choice to share that LoU2 cutscene the way they did; came off to me as cheap and a bit desperate.

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ShaggE

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Wolfenstein's only controversies (that I've seen, at least) being political in nature tell me that it's not at all about violence in general. (no spoilers, but I'll say that New Colossus has the goriest scene I've seen in a game in a long time, one that I'd think would be bringing the thinkpieces out by the bushel)

Hell, with the tensions and frustrations in the world right now, some stress-relief virtual bloodshed is all the more welcome.

I'm basically repeating what's already been said, but context is everything. TLOU2 misjudged the room completely and marketed the violence instead of the writing and acting, and David Cage was being David Cage. More importantly, in the big picture, are *that* many people really offended by this? Or is it just the usual folks that hop on every hint of controversy and make a production out of it? Honestly, this is maybe the second or third discussion I've seen all week about it. Barely a blip on the radar.

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golguin

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People in general don’t trust David Cage to handle difficult subjects. That’s not a GB thing. The Super Best Friendcast said a similar thing last week and they’ve played all of Cage’s games for their channel.

I didn’t have any issues with the TLOU2 trailer, but I recognize it as an intense thing to watch. I showed the trailer to my girlfriend (she saw me play the first game) and she wasn’t that bothered by the violence.

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jeremyf

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More and more I realize that I don't get offended very easily, but I can comment on the success of the marketing choices Sony made with these trailers.

I guess Detroit was okay for what it was trying to do. It definitely built off the past few trailers we've seen for that game, using the same style and all. It was still a weird subject to pick, but maybe that's a really important part of the game. And Cage's "audience," whatever's left of it anyway, probably expects heavy situations.

TLOU, though... it didn't have the benefit of previous trailers like Detroit did. Other than Ellie saying that she's gonna kill 'em all, we don't really know much about the game. So it was doubly weird for Sony to choose this trailer when they did. First, there's the notion that "This game's FUCKED UP" is so appealing that it's the only value of the trailer. Like other people are saying, there's no context to the situation, nor do we know anything substantial about these characters once the trailer is done. Second, that they would choose to END their presentation with this trailer. Yes, TLOU is a beloved game for a lot of people. But to leave the audience with this as the last image in their minds? I don't know about that. Perhaps it works better if you're just watching the trailers on YouTube after the fact.

I didn't enjoy TLOU 1 very much. This new trailer did not raise my excitement for the new game. Just a really weird way of showing off your product.

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pyrodactyl

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#26  Edited By pyrodactyl

@bisonhero said:

That being said, compared to the MGSV trailer, the violence in TLOU trailer is less "torture for implied military interrogation" and more "wanton violence and maiming against a woman and young girl with no clear objective other than suffering", so I can understand why people were less comfortable with TLOU.

That MGS5 trailer had some of the most exciting gameplay sequences I've seen in a trailer to date set to the hypest score. That certainly helped pull the focus away from the cutscenes. Even then, I remember people expressing skepticism with how Kojima was going to handle stuff like torture and child soldiers.

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PancakePatriarchate

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The way I understood the discussions around the Detroit and Last of Us 2 trailers was 1) David Cage isn't exactly known for having a delicate / nuanced touch when it comes to anything in those games. Case in point, I would not be surprised if in that child abuse scenario the kid is harmed the game will take great pains to tell you "You could have prevented this!" That's just what I've come to expect from those games, in a nutshell.

As for 2) the Last of Us 2 trailer was completely free of context. Yeah maybe those were Fireflies or Ellie's mom or something but it could just as well have popped a 'Days Gone' title afterwards (if not for the clickers at the end). Fans of that series are obviously there for the characters and narrative so zeroing in the tone on "It's the zombie apocalypse and humans-are-the-real-monsters world #387" is missing the mark; yeah we already knew things are sh!tty in this setting, remind us why we care about this one.

I did get the sense from the Bombcast discussion that some staff were relaying a "The violence is too icky" sentiment from who-cares Twitter/Reddit. With that I can agree with the original poster in being confused.

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GERALTITUDE

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The community isn’t a hive mind, there are different perspectives... I understand in a way what your are looking for, but, yeah.

Personally I am mixed on all counts. I was surprised by the trailers, but not offended, I understand some of the reaction, but not all. I think there is an element of bandwagoning, but not entirely. Ultimately, it does seem like it “worked” from a marketing angle, so there’s that too. Old Marilyn Manson school of thought in play: no such press as bad press. And yet no doubt this entire conversation will be a hazy memory when the next shiny object crosses my path...

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fatalbanana

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Throwing around words like "offended" or "political correctness" sounds like your trying to lump these conversations or the people having them into a group that I don't really think has anything to do with this. Not to rehash what everyone above me has already said but this isn't about violence in video games or broaching serious matter in video games. It's how it's presented and whether or not that stuff belongs in a trailer that's trying to pitch itself to an audience. Showing fatal child abuse or over the top torture/murder without context to a crowd of cheers and applause feels gross and weird to me. I have no issue with it being in the game but making a "selling point" (for lack of a better word) out of it doesn't sit well with me when I think about it.

If it works for them and people are into it then who the hell am I? but I definitely think it's a conversation worth having. If you don't think about games or the way they are marketed in that way more power to you, god bless and godspeed.

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sochexum

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Getting offended by fiction is weird to me.

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Barrock

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The term torture porn is being thrown around a little too liberally with the Last of Us 2 in my opinion. It was nothing like Hostel or Saw. Someone had their arm broken with a hammer, they didn't have their arm sawed off, or have their eyeball scooped out with a rusty spoon. Everything in the trailer seemed appropriate for that universe. Now would I have used it as my teaser footage? Probably not.

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BladeOfCreation

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#34  Edited By BladeOfCreation

@fatalbanana: As far as the cheering crowds go, I remember this argument from that TLoU trailer a few years ago. Jeff Gerstmann even spoke about this on podcasts back then, how it was weird to see people cheering for someone begging for their life getting a shotgun to the face. Personally, I disagreed with that take on the subject. I felt that the cheering in that case was because the trailer was over, and it's expected for people at an event to cheer/applause at the end of a game trailer. I thought that the cheering was for the trailer, not the extreme violence itself.

I do think this was a bad trailer for TLoU 2, but I didn't play more than an hour or two of the first game so I didn't recognize the characters or anything. There may be context I'm missing? If there isn't, if these are all new characters and they chose to start showing this game by having extreme violence...yeah. It's a weird choice. We know the world is fucked up. Save that for a later trailer, at least.

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Slag

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Well first off the gaming community is huge. So big at this point it's incorrect to frame the community as having one opinion on anything.

Being critical is not the same as being offended. You can say "hey I don't think this is the right person or the right way to portray this topic" without being offended. Are there people who are offended? Probably and that's certainly their right to be if they are. But the overwhelming response from the games media who have been negative hasn't been offense, what I've seen is skepticism and distaste. Not the same thing at all as being offended.

Not to mention it's their job to critique things. Part of being a critic is praising what games do well and criticizing what they do poorly. That includes the subject matter within the game or associated media.

And let's face it, Domestic violence (detroit) and violence against women (TLOU p2) are very very difficult subjects to portray in any form of media in no small part because of the lasting psychological harm it can have for survivors. Even if the producers/directors handle the subject matter in a sensitive thoughtful way, the marketing department still could screw it up with their messaging and their attempts to have as many people as possible learn about the game's existence. Which inevitably mean that people, who don't want to see that content, will see it. And worse still may have it shown to them in a manner, that the game makers might have never intended that could be inadvertently be insensitive or hurtful.

I think that definitely happened with the TLOU Part 2. Is that scene in the game well done? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Hard to say without context. But sure seems weird that this particular scene of gratuitous torture is what Sony's marketing team considers the selling point of their game. I don't blame anybody who feels that ad is profiteering off the suffering of women.

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BladeOfCreation

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@slag: Agree with all of this, but especially how being critical isn't the same as being offended. I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum who used to lament the fact that games were seen as "for kids." We spent decades demanding that our hobby be respected as art.

This is what that means. We get to look at that art and critique it. I'm not saying that all of that criticism is necessarily done well, of course. But this is part of how the medium grows.

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Rejizzle

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The two recent examples I can bring up are Sony’s showing of Detroit and The Last of Us 2. However the impression I got on how the reaction was to these two things has been kind of confusing. Is it that people just don’t trust David’s Cage and don’t see the violence of TLoU 2’s trailer fitting he franchise

Think you hit the nail on the head here. The depictions in the trailers (moreso TLoU) seemed like violence for the sake of shock value, and didn't give much of an indication as to the context. Heady themes such as these really do need time to breath and to be explored with a deft touch in any form of media. Frankly, it's kind of bizarre that they would use this material for a minute and a half trailer.

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ripelivejam

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#44  Edited By ripelivejam

Didn't one of the original E3 TLoU trailers hinge on almost the same shit? I remember it ending with a point blank shotgun headshot to a dude. I think there was some hand wringing about it, but nothing to this level. Have to watch it again, but maybe it was because it at least set up some of the Ellie/Joel dynamic.

Will echo many others and say violence is fine (and can even be effective and harrowing), but in context.

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FrostyRyan

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They are being critical of those subjects possibly being portrayed poorly in art, as they should be.

Don't listen to the "back in my day" types whining about political correctness and "millennials being offended." That remains one of the stupidest arguments people make. Sad to see so much of that here in this thread.

The bottom line is if you're going to do heavy subjects, boy do they need to be done right. This isn't being offended, it's being critical and observant of stuff that matters. Portraying a fart joke poorly is one thing. That is something to pay no mind to and brush off. Portraying racism, violence, etc. poorly is another thing. Those things SHOULD be watched closely. Those things SHOULD be discussed without some asshole butting in saying "hey guys, quit being so offended."

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#47  Edited By ThePanzini

I didn't have any issue I though both trailers were pretty excellent TLOU 2 was as expected grim and tense but intriguing rasing alot of questions and Detroit seem to tackle a tough subject well, it only takes a few tweets to create a storm and on the internet people hate everything it often feels like outrage on demand.

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dudeglove

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David Cage has a lot of grand ideas in his visions but constantly fucks up the execution and they turn out garbage or just generally completely creepy. He is as bad as Kojima in that both are in dire need of an editor. It's not a case of "being offended", it's more that with Cage has repeatedly proven he cannot handle these topics, yet here we go again and oh good, now he's trying to do domestic abuse. Maybe the father secretly ends up a time traveling zombie.