How Have Nintendo Changed?

Seems to be a lot of criticism of Nintendo about - as far as I'm concerned it's just knee-jerk herd mentality.

But what has actually changed about Nintendo - when exactly were they 'hardcore' (whatever that means)? When I think of Nintendo I think of Donkey Kong and Mario, those colourful Zelda and Pokemon games etc. Was Metroid really for hardcore gamers? Seemed just like a fun platform game to me. People seem to be complaining that they are making an Animal Crossing - isn't that the sort of game they've always made? Wii Sports is part of a long Nintendo legacy of light-hearted sports games - Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Excitebike etc.

How have Nintendo changed? Aren't they the same as they always were?

"Seems to be a lot of criticism of Nintendo about - as far as I'm concerned it's just knee-jerk herd mentality.

But what has actually changed about Nintendo - when exactly were they 'hardcore' (whatever that means)? When I think of Nintendo I think of Donkey Kong and Mario, those colourful Zelda and Pokemon games etc. Was Metroid really for hardcore gamers? Seemed just like a fun platform game to me. People seem to be complaining that they are making an Animal Crossing - isn't that the sort of game they've always made? Wii Sports is part of a long Nintendo legacy of light-hearted sports games - Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Excitebike etc.

How have Nintendo changed? Aren't they the same as they always were?
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They are focusing to much on ripping of Mario and Zelda. There are way to many of those now. What happened to their originality? They supposedly were really original but look at them now. We see Mario baseball,soccer, rpgs. Everything Mario lol.

"They are focusing to much on ripping of Mario and Zelda. There are way to many of those now. What happened to their originality? They supposedly were really original but look at them now. We see Mario baseball,soccer, rpgs. Everything Mario lol."

They've gone from making relatively hardcore games for young teens and adults to a more general "Even your grandmother will play this" style.

"They've gone from making relatively hardcore games for young teens and adults to a more general "Even your grandmother will play this" style.
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Whatever they are doing, they need to get back to the hardcore side.

Nintendo has changed, but only because their target audience has.  The DS can be looked at as a sort of experiment in their "blue ocean" philosophy.  With games like Nintendogs kicking ass on the DS and the Gamecube, while yes having awesome hardcore games, was getting its ass handed to it in the console market Nintendo realized the "blue ocean" model is the way to go.  They changed their target audience to people who for the most part aren't us, because THEY ARE A COMPANY, and as such they care about the bottom line.  Obviously what was left of Nintendo's base wasn't enough to keep them afloat during the GCN generation, so they shift the base to what was proven to work on the DS.  And that's what we get now. 

I think the new VG Cats comic says it all about nintendo right now (http://www.vgcats.com/)

Interesting opinions, but I don't see anyone really explaining how Nintendo has changed. I see mention of soccer moms and grandmothers, but these seem like buzzwords to me - it's people parroting what they've heard in the media imo.

A game like the Wii Sports sequel - how exactly is that a different sort of game to Mario Tennis or Wave Race or the sort of games that Nintendo has been making for decades?DarkLegend said:

"Whatever they are doing, they need to get back to the hardcore side."

The biggest difference between today's Nintendo and the one we had ten years ago is that the current one isn't as much of a money-hungry tyrant as the previous one. Remember the N64 controllers that were pretty much useless after playing with them for a few months? Or the link-cables for the GBA that went for 30 bucks a piece, when you could get four third party ones for ten bucks? Or how about the fact that you had to buy a freaking adapter in order to use headphones with the GBA SP?

"The biggest difference between today's Nintendo and the one we had ten years ago is that the current one isn't as much of a money-hungry tyrant as the previous one. Remember the N64 controllers that were pretty much useless after playing with the for a few months? Or the link-cables for the GBA that went for 30 bucks a piece, when you could get four third party ones for ten bucks? Or how about the fact that you had to buy a freaking adapter in order to use headphones with the GBA SP?
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Nintendo hasn't changed so much as their message has changed. They're still putting out games for their hardcore audience, albeit few and far between, but they are begining to focus on the more casual audience they've attracted, and it really does show. There have been quite a few promising third party titles on the Wii so far. No More Heroes was one of the best third party titles I've played this generation. Its tragic that it didn't get any kinds of huge sales figures. The reasons are fairly simple, failure of Nintendo to promote its third party partners. This is starting to be the case with a number of promising third party titles on the horizon; Mushroom men, Mad World, Tales of Symphonia, etc. Nintendo, in their E3 press conference, focused more on "Games" like Wii Music and Wii Resort. The backlash from the fans, I think, has more to do with the shift of focus onto these games than the overall lack of compelling titles for the hardcore. Had they actually shown MM and Madworld they could have easily held their own against the other companies at E3. Failure to promote their promising third party titles may turn into a huge problem for Nintendo down the road. If they don't want their system to turn into the casual plagued, mini game fisticuffs that everyone is fearing they will NEED to being promoting these games.

Nintendo is always changing and trying to raise the bar. Some people love it and some people hate it. I think they are more concerned about making money.

I criticize nintendo, just because I don't like the games they are putting out. And I'll only get a Wii if there are any interesting games coming out.

They got less hard core

"They got less hard core"

I tend to agree.  Nintendo itself has not really changed, the philosophy is still the same: Create games that are the most inclusive.  However, the market has changed, there is a lot more people to include now and as such the games have changed to compensate for this.  When ever you are looking to appeal to the largest possible market you will have to simplfy your product, the more simple it becomes the more appealing it becomes.  As a result a lot of the games that Nintendo is focussing on have become much simpler in terms of overall design. 

That being said, you're right the company hasn't changed, the market has, and we haven't.

To understand the issue you have to understand the actual mindset of the "casual" gamer. You list games such as Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Junior as being evidence that Nintendo has always done this, but even those would intimidate a casual gamer simply because of their control schemes. The Wii is attempting to break down those barriers with games like Wii Music, which is fine, but they are beginning to wane in pleasing the audience of veteran gamers. That's fine too, really, they are making money and that's good for them. Those core gamers are becomming rightfully disappointed though and you can't blame them either.

Internet forums and veteran gamers go hand in hand. We are the people that point out the flaws such as a lack of a hard drive, below average (putting it nicely) online play, etc. Most of the complaints I see are perfectly legitimate and to say that anyone that dislikes Nintendo's current offerings is a sheep is completely unfair. The Nintendo apologists should take a look at the issues rather than writing off everything.

Name a hardcore Nintendo game coming out later this year that hasnt been geared towards casuals....say Animal Crossing and you fail.

I agree, and I'm annoyed about what I'm seeing from Nintendo in general, but the question is "Has Nintendo changed?" and they really haven't.  When DKJr and Yoshi's Island were created they were appealing to the broadast audience that existed at that time.  Now that that audience has expanded they are focussing on products that appeal to them.  It just so happens that "them" is not "us," at least not anymore. 

I think they have changed a lot, in terms of what kind of games they are pushing more.

"Name a hardcore Nintendo game coming out later this year that hasnt been geared towards casuals....say Animal Crossing and you fail."

"To understand the issue you have to understand the actual mindset of the "casual" gamer. You list games such as Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Junior as being evidence that Nintendo has always done this, but even those would intimidate a casual gamer simply because of their control schemes. The Wii is attempting to break down those barriers with games like Wii Music, which is fine, but they are beginning to wane in pleasing the audience of veteran gamers. That's fine too, really, they are making money and that's good for them. Those core gamers are becomming rightfully disappointed though and you can't blame them either.

Internet forums and veteran gamers go hand in hand. We are the people that point out the flaws such as a lack of a hard drive, below average (putting it nicely) online play, etc. Most of the complaints I see are perfectly legitimate and to say that anyone that dislikes Nintendo's current offerings is a sheep is completely unfair. The Nintendo apologists should take a look at the issues rather than writing off everything.
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Only thing that they're doing is targeting the casual gamers as their primary audience. The problem is, that casuals don't know about E3, so people freaked out when they didn't see any hardcore games, save Animal Crossing which I would call semi-hardcore but also has a very casual feel, and thought Nintendo was turning their backs on us completely. The thing is, Nintendo has apologized, they didn't think people were going to be this upset.

Wii owners have dealt with the good and the bad thus far but, they expected E3 to be for them, they expected Nintendo to take a break from advertising to those casual gamers who pretty much only liked games with "Wii" in the title and that were based off their favorite movie or book. But they didn't which caused an uproar. This was the last straw for hardcore gamers.

Keep in mind that Nintendo's conference wasn't the only bad one, but it wasn't the best either. Also think about how casual gamers read about the conference in magazines and on websites by chance, and those sites are telling them that Nintendo's conference was the best.

And on the Animal Crossing subject again, that game is liked by many gamers, casual and hardcore alike, Nintendo did throw us that bone, but it was only for a niche group of gamers who've been asking for another AC title for years.

They should have thrown us another IP as well. They had to of known that people were clammoring for some sort of Kid Icarus and Zelda news. And for Pikmin to not be announced during the conference was stupid too. I think that Pikmin would be liked by many casual gamers as well as the hardcore fans. I would have been much more satisfied if they had mentioned that game as well.

Over all, I think Nintendo is making some pretty stupid mistakes to go along with their brilliant moves, but as always, I hope that they will be able to turn themselves around in the hardcore gamers minds, as well as keep their new audience of casual gamers.

Business' have changed, Nintendos change, get over it.